Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ZetaNine on February 12, 2008, 09:34:49 AM
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By it's very definition, "political correctness" is the intentional avoidance of free speech, truth or opinion, in order to spare someone from being "offended". :cry
Is there anything more UN-American than that? I think America has become obsessed with this...and I think it's one of the most dangerous unofficial policies we have some how adopted.
Think of all the instances in the past few years where someone stated an opinion that may be his or her own...even if it was wrong or unkind...and then look at the herds of people who swarm on those individuals with everything from suing that person, to destroying their carreer. It's like watching animals eating their young...
Toughen up. If you are offended by something someone says...too bad...move on...and grow some stones.
I can certainly see, some areas in the workplace, there has to be some room for it....but limit that please...to the civilian workplace. I say that because I think political correctness is already beginning to destroy our military. To hell with the people that want a "kinder-gentler" military to mirror our society. That is NOT the job of our military. Our military is our first and last line of defense...and the very nature of their job is to, as Colin Powell put it...."break things and kill people". Leave our military alone...it's the best in the world...and if it ain't' broke....don't try to fix it.
P/c is also a tool that many in our society have learned to manipulate to first feign being offended, and then profit from.
Another danger we are facing from this political correctness fallout is the border debate. there are actually people in this country who think we should offer amnesty to ILLEGAL immigrants....many of them our elected leaders. are you kidding me? see the word "illegal" and get back to me. how about if I stop paying the IRS...where's my amnesty?
It's gotten way out of hand...and it's only getting worse.
Political correctness is more dangerous then many may realize....and as I said...it goes against everything that America is supposed to stand for.
What say you?
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It's not new. It's been undermining our freedoms for many years now. It won't go away. Only defense against it is for people to speak their minds openly and honestly and damn the torpedos.
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Originally posted by ZetaNine
Toughen up. If you are offended by something someone says...too bad...move on...and grow some stones...
What say you?
Can you actually grow stones? I mean... don't you either have them or not? I don't think I've seen many minds changed. If you're tracked on the light-hearted path of PC, usually you find stuff to support that track... rather than "toughening up."
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I concur.
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What defines political correctness tends to be subject to the social environment it's practiced in. I recall the term being used years ago to define a Soviet citizen's actions and thought.
In here it's "pc" to praise members of the military, mostly conservative values, and Harleys.
I've been some places where it's considered very non-pc to drink Coors. So much so that fights have broken out.
It gets kinda worn out. People are a bit silly when it comes to what they can be offended by and mainstream efforts to avoid offense are just polite. Adjusting your values to accommodate the general consensus is hypocritical and weak.
But it happens all the time.
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I don't think it's wrong to make an effort not to offend people (as unlikely as that may seem from some of my posts in this forum). In fact, it's wonderful to not offend people, or even help smooth things over when someone is offended. But that effort shouldn't be given a higher value than the content & context of the conversation.
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Originally posted by texasmom
I don't think it's wrong to make an effort not to offend people (as unlikely as that may seem from some of my posts in this forum). In fact, it's wonderful to not offend people, or even help smooth things over when someone is offended. But that effort shouldn't be given a higher value than the content & context of the conversation.
I agree. Freedom comes from being able to choose though. That's the difference between socialism/communism and charity.
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Originally posted by AKIron
It's not new. It's been undermining our freedoms for many years now. It won't go away. Only defense against it is for people to speak their minds openly and honestly and damn the torpedos.
You're right AKIron. I'll start.
AKIron, I think your SEKSY!!!
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Originally posted by Yknurd
You're right AKIron. I'll start.
AKIron, I think your SEKSY!!!
I don't think you'll get any arguments here. :D
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Originally posted by ZetaNine
Toughen up. If you are offended by something someone says...too bad...move on...and grow some stones.
It would seem I have a deciple
Only my line is usually
"Grow a thicker skin. The world is a tough and sometimes offencive place
You can either learn to deal with it or the local hardware store sells rope so you can hang it up. I suggest 3/4 inch so you wont have to worry about it breaking.
If you worried 1/100th as much about what is truely offencive. Like starving children for example as you are about what name ou were called, what picture you just saw, or what you heard someone say
We would ALL live in a far better world"
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Yanno it used to be that when someone complained abotu what someone said they were told "Oh grow up already and learn to ignore it."
Now we're so busy always trying to make nice nice. Trying to go out of our way not to hurt anyones feelings.
Half the time with people we cant stand. or really dont care about.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Yanno it used to be that when someone complained abotu what someone said they were told "Oh grow up already and learn to ignore it."
Now we're so busy always trying to make nice nice. Trying to go out of our way not to hurt anyones feelings.
Half the time with people we cant stand. or really dont care about.
RACK HIM!!!!!
well said man....
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Seems to me we just had little understanding of just how touchy some people are. I know I do. My poor girlfriend cringes when she hears me say "I think..."
And I gotta tell you, it's uncanny how much hypocrisy you can uncover when you start to pick away at someone's political correctness.
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For the folks lamenting the loss of their freedom... I ask you-
Who's stopping you from "speaking your mind" ? I wasn't aware that each of us were facing prison time for saying what we feel?
The truth is... you can say what you like, when you like. You just need to be prepared to face the ramifications of your words.
Talk about needing to grow some stones :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
For the folks lamenting the loss of their freedom... I ask you-
Who's stopping you from "speaking your mind" ?
litigious attorneys for one.
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A rant against political correctness? How fresh!
I have no use for folks who get into a tizzy over "un-PC" speech.
I also find it funny how often the people who decry our PCifucation end up flipping out when I say "crazy Christians" or dare make any mention of how silly religion is. "That's different!" they cry.
The world is a wonderful, crazy, upside-down place.
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
Who's stopping you from "speaking your mind" ?
Scuzzy
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Wonder if this is gonna blow up again now.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/02/12/denmark.cartoon/index.html
From what local media reports all papers here will bring reprints of the cartoons tomorrow.
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Originally posted by ZetaNine
litigious attorneys for one.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
yeah...ok :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by myelo
Scuzzy
Now that one I'll accept :aok
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
yeah...ok :rolleyes:
http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-us&brand=msnbc&fg=copy&vid=90F793E2-DC0A-41AC-8A70-C963C967D3DC&from=00
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Ummm...
comprehension seems to be a problem for you?
Girl calls something gay-
Girl gets in trouble (somethings have consequences - even if it is stupid)
Girl sues school- yep... the girl spoke her mind, got in trouble, and then sued for it... so, in short, your argument sucks. :aok
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
Ummm...
Girl sues school-
actually it's very much on point...I just was hoping I would not have to explain it. what fun is that?
remedial reader reminder: this being the issue I mentioned.. that you subsequently "giggled" at. keywords: litigious attorneys.
you're being myopic focussing on the girl's individual give & gets in this story...rather than addressing the big picture of the story...and my initial post and reason for making this thread.........which is how p/c is destroying this country.
I'm here to help.
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Oh my friend... you make me smile.
I love how you've managed to tie together two separate issues. Political correctness and useless lawsuits. Your PC argument has been shown to be weak, so you've latched on to something that we can all agree to hate (in this case lawers :lol ) and clung to it.
My myopic focus? You seem to be the one who's overly focused on an issue without being able to see the big picture :rofl
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Lighten up, Francis. "Political correctness infinges my freedom of speech" that. :D
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
Oh my friend... you make me smile.
I love how you've managed to tie together two separate issues.
:board vet tap dance noted:
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who's tap dancing?
You got caught making a weak argument and were called on it. :lol
Seriously... you posted a thread demonizing political correctness, and when someone challenged you on it you morphed the thread into something about frivolous lawsuits... you derailed your own thread!
My oh my... keep digging :rofl
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
who's tap dancing?
I prefer to think of you more as a plate spinner.... ::add giggly emoticon of your choice, here::
(http://www.thrasherarts.com/old-fashion-plate-spinning.jpg)
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Originally posted by myelo
Scuzzy
:noid
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Riiiiiiiiight
Look! I can insert a picture too!
(http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/funny-pictures-cat-pwns-dog.jpg)
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surrender noted.
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Zeta's too ramped up on his public ranting over people who are too pc being too ramped up in their public ranting, imo. Only reason I can see for it backin' into a corner, beatin' it's head against the wall and gettin' all defensive-like and feeling way too misunderstood and unappreciated. :D
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The PC movement is often overdone; however, that does not make it evil. The PC movement is really the follow through of the Equal Rights Amendment and women's suffrage. I know that there are plenty of folks who don’t think that blacks, women and other minorities ever had it all that bad… The rest of us recognize that equal rights are essential and fair.
Now it’s one thing for the government to just state that businesses can’t discriminate who they hire based on race, sex, religion, etc. It’s another, and more challenging task to enforce these rights. I think most of us would quit our jobs if we were constantly insulted and made fun of by other employees. I’m assuming that most readers here are white; imagine working in an all black office where you were constantly ripped on for being white and given the worst tasks and never promoted. I’m assuming that most readers here are straight guys; imagine working for a gay boss who regularly hit on you and there was nothing you could do about it; I’m sure that’s how many women feel about unwanted advances from their bosses or co-workers.
As far as the military goes; discrimination didn’t just magically go away in 1948. It’s taken awhile to get where we are at now and it still isn’t perfect.
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Originally posted by Arlo
Zeta's too ramped up on his public ranting over people who are too pc being too ramped up in their public ranting, imo.
:snicker:
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Originally posted by eskimo2
The PC movement is often overdone; however, that does not make it evil. The PC movement is really the follow through of the Equal Rights Amendment and women's suffrage. I know that there are plenty of folks who don’t think that blacks, women and other minorities ever had it all that bad… The rest of us recognize that equal rights are essential and fair.
Now it’s one thing for the government to just state that businesses can’t discriminate who they hire based on race, sex, religion, etc. It’s another, and more challenging task to enforce these rights. I think most of us would quit our jobs if we were constantly insulted and made fun of by other employees. I’m assuming that most readers here are white; imagine working in an all black office where you were constantly ripped on for being white and given the worst tasks and never promoted. I’m assuming that most readers here are straight guys; imagine working for a gay boss who regularly hit on you and there was nothing you could do about it; I’m sure that’s how many women feel about unwanted advances from their bosses or co-workers.
As far as the military goes; discrimination didn’t just magically go away in 1948. It’s taken awhile to get where we are at now and it still isn’t perfect.
very well said, sir.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
The PC movement is often overdone; however, that does not make it evil. The PC movement is really the follow through of the Equal Rights Amendment and women's suffrage. I know that there are plenty of folks who don’t think that blacks, women and other minorities ever had it all that bad… The rest of us recognize that equal rights are essential and fair.
Now it’s one thing for the government to just state that businesses can’t discriminate who they hire based on race, sex, religion, etc. It’s another, and more challenging task to enforce these rights. I think most of us would quit our jobs if we were constantly insulted and made fun of by other employees. I’m assuming that most readers here are white; imagine working in an all black office where you were constantly ripped on for being white and given the worst tasks and never promoted. I’m assuming that most readers here are straight guys; imagine working for a gay boss who regularly hit on you and there was nothing you could do about it; I’m sure that’s how many women feel about unwanted advances from their bosses or co-workers.
As far as the military goes; discrimination didn’t just magically go away in 1948. It’s taken awhile to get where we are at now and it still isn’t perfect.
If your talking equal rights I'm down with that.
But if your talking about constantly worry about offending people or hurting peoples feelings.
Or making special accommodations for any group
Then I say that's not equal rights. but extra rights
Like I've said a few times. I'm a white boy with a Spanish last name who went to a primarily black school.
Trust me. my ethnicity didn't go over well with anyone. blacks white or Hispanics. I got it from all ends so I know what it feels like.
The one thing I refused to do is use it as a cop out. or whine "He's picking on me cause I'm white/Hispanic. Make him stop."
I learned not to sweat it.
Those that got to know me usually ended up liking me. and those that never bothered. weren't worth paying much attention to unless they got physical. In which case I just got physical right back.
Up here in the NE you don't see as much discrimination due to race as you used to.
Though I see an awful lot that like to claim it
"they just fired me cause I'm (whatever)"
Nooo they fired you because it was your 10th time late in 3 weeks
Or another one of my favorites
"I didn't get the promotion just because I'm (whatever)
Noooo, you didn't get the promotion because you don't bust your butt
I see an awful lot of employers afraid to get rid of dead wood because they are worried that someone is going to pull the race or sex card.
Discrimination now is more based on how you act.
Me for example. If you send me a white guy, who dresses and talks like an illiterate rap star and a well spoken, cleanly dressed black man. I'll hire the black man over the white every time.
Most employers I know feel the same way. Someone coming in who acts and sounds articulate will get preference over someone who comes in looking and sounding like they just came from "the hood" regardless of color.
The above examples I gave I know to be true because I've seen it all too often.
Instead of people actually trying to do well and at least act like they have some degree of intelligence. They walk around land act like employers owe them something because of what they are.
Women can be just as bad in other ways
They want equal rights but when you treat them equally just as you would a man they don't like that either.
They want to be treated special.
While I agree. No woman should have to deal with unwanted advances.
If a woman enters a field that is predominantly men. Don't expect them to have to put away their pinup pictures either just because your there.
she chose to be there. And nobody is forcing her to stay.
While she may rightfully point out that she isn't "one of the guys"
Most guys will respect that. She also needs to remember..She isn't one of the guys.
fortunately most women I know. there isn't a problem. They understand the inherent differences between the male and female mind set in situations like that.
As for me I have no problems treating anyone as an equal until they either use the race/gender card as an unwarranted complaint. or act in a way that causes me to treat them otherwise.
Most women appreciate the way I treat them.
unless you put a vocal feminist in my midst.
Then the gloves come off.
eskimo2 No offence to you personally. But I find that blacks when they dress and act intelligently tend to not have the problems you describe.
The ones that do are the ones that come in pants looking 14 sizes too big and refuse to speak correctly
someone that comes in an says "Can I have an application?"
Will always get preference over someone who comes in and says "Let me get an application yo."
Same thing with promotions.
When an employer hires you or promotes you remember you are representing their company. You ARE the face and voice of that company.
If you come in and do not dress right or if you insist on speaking as though you were an illiterate. You either aren't going to get the job. Are only going to get the crappy jobs and keep the crappy jobs and wont get promoted the same as someone who can no matter how good a worker you are or how much better you work.
And that's just the way it is. Its not a race thing. Its an image thing.
Is there still racism in the workplace? Yes but its not NEARLY as prevalent as it used to be.
And there will always be some sort of discrimination. Be it race, or sex, or because you have red hair, or a beard. There are always going to be people who will discriminate for any of 1,000 reasons. And it will always be that way.
BTW constantly complaining about discrimination usually wont get you the promotion either.
then you are seen only as a complainer and someone with less then a positive attitude.
Which ISNT what the higher ups are looking for.
Again. its an image thing.
Its high time some of these groups that scream "discrimination" the loudest to stop blaming everyone else and acting like they are owed something and start doing something to lift themselves up.
Learning to speak correctly would make a huge difference for starters.
There is more opportunity for women and minorities then ever before
A larger problem is both groups are doing very little to help themselves exploit those opportunities.
Another part is learning how to work within the system.
The system isn't fair. Not for whites,men or anyone else. It never has been and never will be so don't expect it to be. Learn to work within it.
The color that matters most in companies these days isn't white, or black, its green.
Can you bring the company green?
The best way to do that. Be it my small company or a multi billion dollar corporation besides just hard work is two simple words
Presentation and articulation.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
The PC movement is often overdone; however, that does not make it evil. The PC movement is really the follow through of the Equal Rights Amendment and women's suffrage. I know that there are plenty of folks who don’t think that blacks, women and other minorities ever had it all that bad… The rest of us recognize that equal rights are essential and fair.
Now it’s one thing for the government to just state that businesses can’t discriminate who they hire based on race, sex, religion, etc. It’s another, and more challenging task to enforce these rights. I think most of us would quit our jobs if we were constantly insulted and made fun of by other employees. I’m assuming that most readers here are white; imagine working in an all black office where you were constantly ripped on for being white and given the worst tasks and never promoted. I’m assuming that most readers here are straight guys; imagine working for a gay boss who regularly hit on you and there was nothing you could do about it; I’m sure that’s how many women feel about unwanted advances from their bosses or co-workers.
As far as the military goes; discrimination didn’t just magically go away in 1948. It’s taken awhile to get where we are at now and it still isn’t perfect.
I agree in principle with what you say eskimo but what do you know of discrimination in the military? If there is any favoritism in the military in regards to promotion it is weighted in favor of minorities. At least that was my experience in 20 years in the USAF.