Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Oldman731 on February 12, 2008, 08:55:24 PM
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I have an apology, and two requests.
The apology: I violated my own personal principles and jumped to a hasty conclusion regarding last night's mass logoff. There is always a second side to any story. I rendered my judgment before I heard it (you axis guys don't know this; believe me, I rendered it). I should know better.
First request: I'd like the big squad that logged last night to stick with the AvA.
Second request: Five weeks ago we started off with very positive attitudes on both sides. A month of competitive combat has changed that for the worse, just a bit. I would ask everyone who enjoys smack talk to tone it down some.
Please.
- oldman
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Apology accepted oldman!
My guys really enjoy looking forward to flying in the AvA. We will return in force on Monday and Tuesday next week on our squad nights, and fly as individuals on rest of the days!
<>
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Apology accepted as well!!
<> Oldman! I look forward to dogfighting w/ you again sir.
Second request: Five weeks ago we started off with very positive attitudes on both sides. A month of competitive combat has changed that for the worse, just a bit. I would ask everyone who enjoys smack talk to tone it down some.
Please.
I could not agree more. I will still de-tune 200 though.
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Apology accepted as well!!
353rd FG really enjoys the AVA and will continue showing up. We try to make a full appearance and balance the side when needed.
AvA needs more squads and individual precipitating in the arena. The last act it need is the of disrespect and show boating the turn people away from AVA. There is no reason that one person or a squad coming in the ava and ruin the events by smack talking and downplay any country, squad or individual.
Major OakTree
CO 353st FS/ 353rd FG
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Second request: Five weeks ago we started off with very positive attitudes on both sides. A month of competitive combat has changed that for the worse, just a bit. I would ask everyone who enjoys smack talk to tone it down some.
Please.
- oldman
In the beginning the war was incredible. It was fun and a completely new way of doing things (at least in the AvA). Things have gotten sour over the weeks, though I don't think the smack is the problem. More of a effect rather than the cause.
I guess maybe I'm just not logged in when all this bad smack takes place. Other than a few jabs at runners (both stangs and 190s) I haven't seen anything in 200 that is anywhere near what I see in the MA on a regular basis, and in fact what I remember seeing in the AvA long ago. Maybe I'm just not paying attention...i dunno. I've really never understood why people get so bend out of shape over silly text... .squelch is the answer.
I look forward to what the staff has for us next. I can imagine this war scenario has been a handful to deal with, and I'm thankful that the AvA staff has taken the time to do this for us. It was very interesting to see how the commander's choices effected that week's battle. The initial 190's vs Spit9 was an experience that really made me start working on my tactics. Playing AH for awhile you can get into a rut, that Spit vs 190 week got me out of that rut lol.
I've never seen more amazing squad operations. The allies really kicked it off with their SBD/C47 raids, and the Axis perfected it with the Fin/Rus blitzkrieg. (of course I have to show an axis bias..I'm JG-54, its the way we roll).
Though we've had our trouble (milkrunners) the staff was quick to put measures in place to correct the problems. You've suffered whines on both sides, and been criticized for every decision. And Sometimes i think you all favor the allies...but I know the axis is really your secret favorite. :lol
Anyhow a hearty to the AvA Staff. I'll send a box of our finest bratwurst.
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Smack talk, however you redefine it, may not seem destructive to the old AvA hands but when new people come in, they're also looking to sample change in the infamous attitudes of the AvA players. If an enjoyable atmosphere isn't presented where cartoon enemies can still be friendly or at least civil toward one another, they'll go back to the MA or wait for the next SEA event where this kind of behavior isn't tolerated. Bullies, even harmless ones, aren't needed in any arena IMHO, and it will take many months before the AvA can shake off it's reputation, even if the insults could be instantly squelched.
This war experiment is only in it's 4th week and there are still many players who'll never try it until they start hearing better things about the player attitude in here, including on these boards. As yet there is still too much disrespect to justify a change in the AvA players' reputation, which is a shame considering all the effort the staff has already put in and how far the community as a whole has come.
Is the game about ruining the other guys sortie, you bet. Is there dweebery, sure. If it were an SEA event, there would be penalties. The AvA is an open arena with the minimum of supervision, it relies on peer pressure, but it's perceived as an agenda when it's across country channel, so save the "advice and training". The old hands need to show their new teammates how it's supposed to be done, why bomb and bail, or running, or chasing for 4 sectors is pointless when you could dive into a fight, even if only figuratively.
lol, I wasn't even going to post but I guess I got wound up.
S!
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I guess I just don't get it. Since I joined AH a little over 2 years ago, I've played in the AvA. I've been solo, and in 2 different squads. I've never felt threatened by 200 speak or any of the various personalities that have come and gone out of the AvA.
Who are these smacktalkers who are ruining the game?
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Smack-talk is a form of boast or insult commonly heard in competitive situations (such as sports events). It is often used to intimidate the opposition, but can also be used in a humorous spirit. Smack-talk is often characterized by hyperbolic, figurative language, e.g., "Your team can't run! You run like honey on ice!" Puns and other wordplay are commonly used. However, citing information about a rival's weaknesses would not be characterized as Smack-talk, but could be described as a "discussion topic"
Sounds to me like normal conversation on AVA. maybe if everyone just shut off 200 it wouldnt really matter. Me personally, im trying to get better at the game, i dont need to listen to peoples talk, good, bad or indifferent.
i think its funny how people take this so seriously and thats great, if thats your thing. my thing is to fly and have fun. whether beating up the opposition or getting waxed by someone with skills much better then mine. mostly i get waxed, but i get right back up there. my sheep entourage keeps me motivated.
remember boys and girls, its a game. either have fun or grow a thicker skin and stop whining. only girly men whine.
lets all just have a good time and thank the lord we live in a country where we have the right to whine whenever we want to.
just my 2 cents.........
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Who? That's kinda like the question when, :) you can't answer on the boards and if you did you'd be contributing to the problem. :huh
Point is, if you get a Private text from the CM or a Warning from the system, it's you, if not, well I guess you're not the worst offender at the moment.;)
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I agree about smack talk. It is a pity that some people are weak minded and devoid of the confidence to deal with a video game. The sad fact is they are what they are and their lack of self assurance is often justified.
Psychological dominance is a huge factor in any game (in fact all of life) but, by all means, if someone can't deal with that part of the game they shouldn't have to. If they don't like being shoot at then we shouldn't do that either and if they have to be successful to be happy we should let them win and congratulate them for their prowess.
Some might believe that rules regarding communication should be limited to the 7 "dirty" words and terms of racial, ethnic or religious derision. Why stop there? We should disallow any communication that isn't welcomed by the recipient or anyone else tuned in.
That being said, let it be known that I find all nice, happy talk, congratulatory, faux blather repulsive and insulting. It should not be allowed. Unless, of coarse, my preferences are some how less valid than anyone else's........
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Originally posted by KONG1
Unless, of coarse, my preferences are some how less valid than anyone else's........
We thought you knew this.
- oldman
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Originally posted by KONG1
I agree about smack talk. It is a pity that some people are weak minded and devoid of the confidence to deal with a video game. The sad fact is they are what they are and their lack of self assurance is often justified.
Psychological dominance is a huge factor in any game (in fact all of life) but, by all means, if someone can't deal with that part of the game they shouldn't have to. If they don't like being shoot at then we shouldn't do that either and if they have to be successful to be happy we should let them win and congratulate them for their prowess.
Some might believe that rules regarding communication should be limited to the 7 "dirty" words and terms of racial, ethnic or religious derision. Why stop there? We should disallow any communication that isn't welcomed by the recipient or anyone else tuned in.
That being said, let it be known that I find all nice, happy talk, congratulatory, faux blather repulsive and insulting. It should not be allowed. Unless, of coarse, my preferences are some how less valid than anyone else's........
Lets not ignore the gorilla in the room, he knows what he speaks.
I'm with the gorilla. :aok
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Never mind, I'll pass on this one.
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Guys, I suggest not allowing your selves to be drawn into the gutter with the persons running their mouths. We are having a blast flying our squad nights in the AvA; yes, we see a lot of trash talk on channel 200, but do not acknowledge any of it.
The trash talk takes place in all the arenas from what I have seen and it's just a part of having so many folks in the sim; your bound to have a percentage of young guys that can't control them selves. Like I said guys, the War coming to the AvA is the best thing that could of happened to the arena; turn a blind eye to the kiddies and press on with the war effort.
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why be bothered with what anyone types on any channel? if you succumb to jibes or taunts who is at fault? who controls your actions?
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Originally posted by 1cajun
I appreciate all the hard work by the AvA staff, but the attitudes of a select few have not changed. Drove people out before and will continue to do so in the future.
When someone PM's your squadmates to run you down it has gotten to a new low for me.
Please tell me why people have not stoped flying in the MA? The "to many people talk smack" whine has been played out and is useless. AHII is the one who drove people out of AvA then the CT. We have 30-50 people in there a night in old AH, but when AHII came out some peoples computers could not run it. That coupled with the lack of maps pretty much killed the CT, and only the true CT supporters stayed.
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Originally posted by heythere
why be bothered with what anyone types on any channel? if you succumb to jibes or taunts who is at fault? who controls your actions?
This is not rocket science. Trash talking simply makes the atmosphere less pleasant. No one is going to need therapy, but no one is going to think, "Hey, cool, he really got me with that one! Hope he does it again!"
Granted, the abusive behavior is worse, pound for pound, in the MAs. So what? That doesn't make it more enjoyable to hear it in AvA, where it's actually more noticeable because the text buffer isn't scrolling by at warp speed.
Here's a question: Viewed from the opposite perspective, what is the enjoyment gained by calling another player names? Does it make the taunter feel superior, or clever, or a hero to his fellow flyers? I haven't been able to figure out the motivation.
- oldman
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actually its just fun, but whats more fun is the reaction you get from the other guy.
i dont do it on a regular basis. i actually stay off of 200 as much as possible. but on occation i have been known to taunt a bit.
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Personally i'm more concerned with how new players to the AvA and to the game AHII see "smack-talk". People don't want to join up into a new atmosphere that's hostile.
If you're lookin for a good time, and a tasty beverage...
And you walk into a new bar in town, only to get kicked in the nuts and handed your hat when you order your favorite beverage (regardless of what it is), that doesn't make you feel very welcome and want to return.
Saying someone needs to head back to the DA or that thier squad is full of "so-and-so's" isn't competitive, it isn't intended to be playful or have any effect except being negative. If you find it fun to beat up on less skilled, and experienced pilots....why stop there? Why not go find a grade school and beat up some little kids?
Point is, negativity doesn't do anything to promote good competition and a better challange and great fight, which is what i've heard many, many, MANY times from Vets of the AvA. You truely want a better fight on your hands, then be proactive and give some advice on what a pilot might do better, instead of telling him/her to hit the DA.
Respect is something you have to earn, it isn't given just because you're better.
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Edit: Post deleted for reasons of national security, and to protect the innocent, and to stop global warming, and to save the burying beetles of Oklahoma.
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From Wikipedia
"Trash-talk is a form of boast or insult commonly heard in competitive situations (such as sports events). It is often used to intimidate the opposition, but can also be used in a humorous spirit. Trash-talk is often characterized by hyperbolic, figurative language, e.g., "Your team can't run! You run like honey on ice!" Puns and other wordplay are commonly used. However, citing information about a rival's weaknesses would not be characterized as trash-talk, but could be described as a "discussion topic" (which might foster a trash-talk situation)."
in cricket it's known as sledging:
"Sledging is the practice in cricket of insulting opponents to break their concentration and cause them to make mistakes. Sledging is effective because the batsman stands within hearing range of the bowler and certain fielders. The aim is to intimidate or distract the batsman into making a fatal mistake and being dismissed. Sledging thus tries to "break the flow" of the batsman's game.[citation needed] There is debate in the cricketing world over whether this is poor sportsmanship or good-humoured banter.
Although sledging is most well-known within cricket, it also happens in other sports, notably rugby, basketball (in which the similar practice of trash talking takes place), and football (soccer). The Zidane incident at the final of the 2006 World Cup appears to rival the instances within cricket, but on an even bigger stage. Baseball also offers opportunities for similar comments between batter and catcher: Rod Marsh's famous "How's your wife and my kids?" to Ian Botham was used in the 1989 US baseball movie Major League as just such a remark"
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what I find offensive is players circling in their ack at 20k above their own field never straying further than a quick sprint back. players taking a head on run then crying for help as they run to ack. players killing the opposition fighter hangers for no other reason than to kill the fighter hangers. players hanging around in massive hordes looking for the single opposition player engaged in a fight.
personally I couldn't be less concerned with what one of these players types up.
the reality that the skill level exhibited in the arena lately (particularly on the allied side) is so low that I suspect the real reason for the allied players guffawing about what johnny said is really masking the fact that they are being ground to fine powder unless they play in the timid fashion that they have demonstrated every night during this "war".
there are of course exceptions and I would salute those players that come out to fight and do so. you know who you are but more importantly those of you runners, gangers and ack huggers you know what you are not and that is worthy opponents. the funny thing is you all post drivel about how respect needs to be earned. here's a clue geldings don't get respect irrespective of how politely they may type on 200.
man up and collect the requisite number of deaths one must have as they aquire skill, go find the biggest cloud of red and see how many you bag before you get pixellated.
play like that and no one will ever type a taunt your way.
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Oldman,
It seems the jist of the bad feelings is a small number of players want the rest of us unworthy tards to go away and get out of "THEIR" arena.
Is there really a special rate you can pay HiTech to get your own arena???? Would you please post a copy of it so the rest of us have a chance at a personal arena. This one seems already taken.
When this idea of bringing in new blood via the "WAR" was opened for discussion 5 weeks ago, a small number of players told you to go stuff yourself over it.
Disable ch200 till the war is finished. Remember when HiTech got fedup and disabled ch1 in the MA? Similar reasons.
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First, I want to say that smack talk can and does go too far some times, I've been guilty of taking it too far myself. Less smack talk is better all things being equal. However, if you dont like ch200 dont tune it. If one guy is particularly annoying (turns and glares at TardKill), squelch him. If you really cant handle it, do both. If you need someone to hold your hand so you dont cry, well, I dont have any suggestions for you.
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HEY grits you stupid noob tard! I pwn j0 all day, you r the suk. DA?:furious
BTW I ****ed your sheep. Hows that for going to far?
:rofl
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Lets put this into perspective shall we. AHII is a GAME!! :huh It pits one person against another in a virtual dogfight. In its nature it is very competitive. I for one hate to lose. Others REALLY REALLY hate to lose and will take it so personally that they feel the need to lash out "verbally" at the person or persons that got the better of them. Ive been apart of the AvA and the CT for a while and hated to get owned by players seemingly better than I and to get "called out" over channel 200 just added to my drive to BETTER myself. I've been called all sorts of names by all sorts of people on BOTH sides. I never once took it personally.
Ive logged many hours playing games like WW2Online, Call of Duty 4, IL-2 Online, The Battlefield series. The atitudes and smack talking there makes AHII look like preschool. So to say that certain players "atitudes" online might be driving off other players is just silly. Look at the age group that make up most of AHII. They arent "squeakers". They're grown men. If they cant realize that they're simply playing a GAME then maybe they need to find something less competitve. Go buy a Wii or something. God for bid you actually go out and play ANY sort of REAL sport like basketball or something because smack talk there is not only present but its not coming from a computer screen. It's all up in your face!! :eek:
Example, I play tournement level Paintball where my competitors are half my age and twice as fast as me, but i know from experience that if I can get in there head I can have the game won before even stepping out onto the field. If I've got my opponent so worked up that he/she isnt thinking on what he/she needs to do to win than he/she has already lost half the game. Get it?
But online we have the ability to ingore such attempts. It's called Squelch. Thats what the function is ment for, use it. If the person or persons continues to IM you then report them.
The bottom line is that this is a GAME, not real, when you get shot down you can just chose another plane and take off again. If you play for long enough and LEARN to fly/fight then certain people will give you some respect and maybe teach you somethings that you didnt. Have fun and dont take things so freakin serious. Grab ya a cartoon plane and take to the virtual skies and have fun trying to shoot down other cartoon planes.
:aok
This message has been brought to you by the letter "1" and the number "F"
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Maybe the main difference between a regular computer game and this game. Is that the others warn that online play may affect the gaming experience. I have play a number of online games, the personalties are the same. There is always some one or some group that uses the vox channel or text channel to trash talk, or make the over experience horrible.
The two problems are: Egos and enmity of the net allows for “bullying”
Every online game has it, it comes with the territory. Deal with it or go take your cartoon plane else where.
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Smack talking is smack talking. When people choose to take it to a more personal level it becomes something different. Read back to some of the posts like, "What would you like to see in the AvA".
It's been discussed how the attitudes and personal insults from some have kept many away. You squelch them and they run you down by PM's to your squadmates. Uncalled for.
Looking at the AvA page at ahevents.org I see the following:
"Rude heckling and insulting behavior will not be tolerated by any AvA staff."
Just wondering why we can't bury this dead horse. I fly this for enjoyment and it will take more than some knucklehead on a computer to get me fired up.
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Just by reading this you can tell who the chest thumpers are.
My squad came to the AvA for a change. Change from the trash taking, change from the atmosphere, change from everything!! But it was a change, a change for the worse!
My squad often flies against each other in the DA, we take the vet guys on one side, and the new guys on another. By the 3rd or 4th round, we start getting our butts kicked, we teach and learn all in one night. Thats what makes us a strong squad.
I have some respect for guys in the AvA. Mainly Truekill and Storch, especially Storch!! On multiple times i have fought him 1 on 1 and he lets me know what i did wrong and such. Salutes me, and tells me hes looking forward to fighting me again. Heck, on multiple occasions ill PM him and ask wheres hes at, he'll tell me his location, alt, fighter everything and we fight!
Thats the kind of experience that made me bring my squad into the AvA. Those are fun times for me, not getting shot down, saluting the guy and saying if i would made a different move i might have gotten him, only to be replyed with pure Egoness. "In your dreams man, you just plain suck!!"
What kind of thing does that teach people, that you have a big ego cuz your good and playing a cartoon?! Come on, lets get real people!!
No one ever leaves for positive attitudes, they leave cuz of negative ones!!
Just my 2 cents...
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im glad i have left the ava since the change occured it is no longer the same place it was, a place to get away to.... I refuse to fly in a 3rd ma. Its just wrong, no offence meant to anyone.
Cheers,
Freez
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Hmmm chest thumping..... nope havent seen any of that!! The party of the first part keeps refering to chest thumping. the only one i know, that does that is Kong, and hes got good reason too, he's a freaking monkey!!
as for anyone else, i dont see any of that on 200. ive never see, "I'm better then you". i have seen words like dweeb, ackosphere, ganging and a few other on 200.
Listen boys and think about it. Any time you put all this testosterone in one place you're always gonna find someone who thinks hes better, stronger, smarter, faster, etc, then anyone else.
I belong to a large gunclub and im an active executive board member. i see it all the time at our meetings. this game is no different.
theres always gonna be the name calling, the whining, the "I am mightier then thou" attitude.
you have several choices:
1. you can get a thicker skin and put up with it
2. you can get really good and shoot down the clown that keeps making fun of you all the time so he'll stop talking trash.
3. you can squelch someone
4. you can not monitor 200 at all
5. you can quit the arena.
all of the above are choices. pick one and lets end this incensent whining!! be a man and for gods sake, leave JG54's LuLu alone!!!
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Who cares, we're all lame for playing this game anyway. Your victories mean nothing, your losses mean nothing....unless we all just fight each other in some park, nothing will ever be settled. Its a game and meant to be played. The smack talk doesn't bother me really...it's part of the game, but the personal insults aren't needed. Trying to bait someone into your fight is fine, I see it all the time....but when they don't bite the hook just STFU.
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Originally posted by lagger86
Who cares, we're all lame for playing this game anyway. Your victories mean nothing, your losses mean nothing....unless we all just fight each other in some park, nothing will ever be settled. Its a game and meant to be played. The smack talk doesn't bother me really...it's part of the game
I concur. :aok
As far as the chest thumping and such mentioned by others... I play from about 7:30 pm Central to 10:30 pm Central. Other than harmless "stop running" "come out of the ionosphere" etc. I have seen absolutely no malicious 200 speak.
Where are these words of mass destruction? The way some of your are acting, they must be pretty severe so...name names post screenies, let the exriment hit the fan and lets have this out and be done.
Otherwise we're just acting like a bunch of old women at the beauty shop. "Did you hear what he said? Girl, you don't need to take that..."
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Smack talking is and has always been used in ever SIM i've played. People stay because they realy like the game not because we all love each other and whisper sweet nothings in each others ears. If that was the case id be long gone by now. I remeber when i first flew in AvA Storch, TK, Kong and a few others told me how weak and inexpeirenced i was (not realy the words they used but u get the meaning) at first i got mad cus i just coulnt believe what they said was true since i came from another WWII SIM and was consider a good stick. Then i looked again and what they suggested was true i did need the TA simply because of the flight modeling in AH was completely different. Since that time i have gone to TA and i've gottten better not real good yet but i'm getting there. Oh by the way wheres my money now TK and Storch that was the deal i say a few nice words about you guys and u'd pay for my AH account for a few months come on devy up now
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Same Posts, Different Year....
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LoL justyy you and the avengers just think of it like a little fraternity hazing.:D
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Originally posted by o0Stream140o
Same Posts, Different Year....
A bit more irony in some of these.:D
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Originally posted by Oldman731
This is not rocket science. Trash talking simply makes the atmosphere less pleasant. No one is going to need therapy, but no one is going to think, "Hey, cool, he really got me with that one! Hope he does it again!"
Granted, the abusive behavior is worse, pound for pound, in the MAs. So what? That doesn't make it more enjoyable to hear it in AvA, where it's actually more noticeable because the text buffer isn't scrolling by at warp speed.
Here's a question: Viewed from the opposite perspective, what is the enjoyment gained by calling another player names? Does it make the taunter feel superior, or clever, or a hero to his fellow flyers? I haven't been able to figure out the motivation.
- oldman
/.ignore Arlo (a handy command to commit to memory)
Sometimes smack, itself, becomes a sort of competative sport to impress/amuse our AHII peers (heh - like that works). Maybe one logs on and sees someone else smacking (not even knowing what started it or who it's aimed at) and feels compelled to champion against the smack-daddy because they seem a bit fulla themselves. In any case it's never really accomplished much other than practicing typing while flying/fighting.
Singing, however, builds comradery and lifts morale.
/.ignore Arlo's singing (but you won't know what you're missing. Or maybe you will.)
OM. You've always represented both class and sanity.
I may be milkrunning out of the way corners until I upgrade my pos pc.
Oh ... that means I anticipate a return soon. :D
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Good I need more kills.:rofl
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Originally posted by Larry
Good I need more kills.:rofl
I'm sure you do. ;)
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No I dont. I just want to help you get that thick layer of rust off.:D
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Like I told her ... that's not rust, honey .... that's hair dye stains.