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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: texasmom on February 14, 2008, 03:47:23 PM

Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: texasmom on February 14, 2008, 03:47:23 PM
Interesting!!! Made me think of a B-movie when I saw this.
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/us-to-shoot-down-broken-spy-satellite/20080214122809990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001



US to Shoot Down Broken Spy Satellite
AP
Posted: 2008-02-14 16:30:14
Filed Under: Nation News
WASHINGTON (Feb. 14) - President Bush decided to make a first-of-its-kind attempt to use a missile to bring down a broken U.S. spy satellite because of the potential danger to people from its rocket fuel, officials said Thursday.

Deputy National Security Adviser James Jeffries, briefing reporters at the Pentagon, did not say when the attempted intercept would be conducted, but the satellite is expected to hit Earth during the first week of March.

"This is all about trying to reduce the danger to human beings," Jeffries said.

Gen. James Cartwright, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said at the same briefing that the "window of opportunity" for such a shootdown, presumably to be launched from a Navy ship, will open in the next three or four days and last for seven or eight days. He did not say whether the Pentagon has decided on an exact launch date....
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Meatwad on February 14, 2008, 03:52:14 PM
If its successful, it would be an excellent source of data to use on future weapons
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: JB88 on February 14, 2008, 03:58:55 PM
sounds to me like a message for the chinese.
Title: Re: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Gh0stFT on February 14, 2008, 04:11:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by texasmom
"This is all about trying to reduce the danger to human beings," Jeffries said.


lol, its a simple satellite! ..wait, maybe not...

maybe time for a new topic called "a satellite nuclear thread" *g*
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: crockett on February 14, 2008, 04:16:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
sounds to me like a message for the chinese.


Actually the Chinese already shot down a satellite, they did it a year or two ago. They also blinded one of our satellites using a earth based laser around the same time line.

As for shooting it down, I think it has more to do with the info and technology on the satellite rather than dangerous fuels. I think the fuel is just used as a public excuse. JMHO..
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: JB88 on February 14, 2008, 04:18:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
Actually the Chinese already shot down a satellite, they did it a year or two ago. I think it has more to do with the info and technology on the satellite rather than dangerous fuels.


i know.  it may be our way of saying..."well yah, that was nice...but look at this."

but then, they did theirs with "freekin laser beams" didn't they?
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Russian on February 14, 2008, 04:22:11 PM
....and what are they planning to do with all debre left in space?  IIRC US was *****ing at China for shooting down their weather satellite....
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Tac on February 14, 2008, 04:30:21 PM
I smell a chance to test that fancy new RAILGUN ;)
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: moot on February 14, 2008, 04:33:04 PM
Fuel or classified tech?  Better not make a mess up there..
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Sandman on February 14, 2008, 04:36:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
sounds to me like a message for the chinese.


Yeah... because the Chinese have no sense of history.

The U.S. has done this before. So has Russia. It's practically routine.
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: JB88 on February 14, 2008, 04:44:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Yeah... because the Chinese have no sense of history.

The U.S. has done this before. So has Russia. It's practically routine.




i did not know that.
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Raptor on February 14, 2008, 04:48:00 PM
I remember reading about an F-15 shooting down a satellite before
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: john9001 on February 14, 2008, 04:51:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
Actually the Chinese already shot down a satellite, they did it a year or two ago. They also blinded one of our satellites using a earth based laser around the same time line.


yeah yeah , the chinese are 30 years ahead of the US in space stuff, or was that the russians that are 30 years ahead.
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: trax1 on February 14, 2008, 04:53:21 PM
I wonder if the explosion will be visible from the ground.
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: whels on February 14, 2008, 04:58:12 PM
F15 ASAT

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f15_16.html

http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/histind/ASAT/F15ASAT.html
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: moot on February 14, 2008, 05:13:59 PM
Not much visible flash bang eye candy..  The warhead will be kinetic, not chemical.
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-161.html

A 1-piece kinetic shot with an untested solution on a possibly jittery target, impact near end of boost phase...  Target impact is at 275km altitude..
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Tac on February 14, 2008, 05:21:56 PM
lol poor scientists..

"The first and only ASM-135A launch against an actual target satellite took place on September 13, 1985, when F-15A 77-0084 of the 6512th Test Squadron stationed at Edwards AFB took off from Vandenberg AFB and zoom-climbed up to 80,000 feet and then launched the ASAT against the Solwind P78-1, a gamma ray spectroscopy satellite that had been launched in February of 1979. Both the first and second stages fired successfully, and the miniature kinetic kill vehicle separated and homed in on the satellite, destroying it upon impact.

The test was a success in that it demonstrated that the basic concept was feasible. However, it enraged arms control advocates, who saw the test as a violation of a joint US/Soviet treaty forbidding the development and testing of antisatellite weapons. .Solar scientists were not happy about the test either, since although the Solwind P78-1 that was killed had officially completed its mission, it was still sending back useful data "
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: moot on February 14, 2008, 05:23:29 PM
:rofl "Move over egghead..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U99cRebGmWU
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Yeager on February 14, 2008, 06:46:45 PM
318th FIS out of McChord AFB Wash was trained and capable of delivering ASAT.

IIRC they were one of only two F15 squadrons tasked with combat delivery of ASAT.  The F15 had to climb to 80,000 feet to deliver but the ASAT capability was scrapped by congress in 1988.

I used to love watching the F15s buzz out of McChord when I was a kid.

Beautiful tail insignia for the Green Dragons 318th FIS.  See link:

http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/mod/jacksonf15.htm
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 14, 2008, 06:58:25 PM
Larger question.

why did it take so long to come to this decision.
The solution seems pretty obvious from the start.

Wonder if it will put aon a really cool lightshow
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: trax1 on February 14, 2008, 07:06:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Wonder if it will put aon a really cool lightshow
Thats what I was wondering, I'd love to see that.
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: JB88 on February 14, 2008, 07:11:47 PM
ive always wondered what would happen if you threw a bag of rocks straight down at the earth from the space shuttle.

hmmmm.....
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Meatwad on February 14, 2008, 07:22:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
ive always wondered what would happen if you threw a bag of rocks straight down at the earth from the space shuttle.

hmmmm.....


Id like to try a bowling ball over iran

especially if the core is plutonium


BOOOOM
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: moot on February 14, 2008, 07:30:26 PM
The same thing would happen as does to lots of bigger rocks, daily.. :)

Dred keep in mind this is a school bus sized secret sat...
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: JB88 on February 14, 2008, 07:32:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by moot
The same thing would happen as does to lots of bigger rocks, daily.. :)

Dred keep in mind this is a school bus sized secret sat...


cool!  we could have meteoric pyrotechicians who could go into space and launch meteorites that would burn in over the superbowl.

different types of minerals for different colors.  now that would be wayyyy cool.

:D
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: moot on February 14, 2008, 07:40:10 PM
:lol

Some material or other that'd end up as a fine mist at the right altitude, sensible to electricity, so that you'd get different colors depending on the applied current.. instant sky-wide strobe effects :cool:
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: JB88 on February 14, 2008, 07:49:42 PM
now we're talkin!

:aok
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: JB88 on February 14, 2008, 07:50:39 PM
i wonder what the viewing area would be for something like that.
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: moot on February 14, 2008, 07:54:35 PM
Something like auroras I guess..  Epileptics beware!
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: AKIron on February 14, 2008, 08:00:23 PM
As has been alluded to, you really have to wonder if this isn't a contrived anti-satellite test. What're the Chinese gonna do, put more lead in the toy paint?
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Airscrew on February 14, 2008, 08:05:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tac
lol poor scientists... .Solar scientists were not happy about the test either, since although the Solwind P78-1 that was killed had officially completed its mission, it was still sending back useful data "

Oops,  sorry bout that,  we're you guys still using that old thing?

:lol
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: moot on February 14, 2008, 08:11:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
As has been alluded to, you really have to wonder if this isn't a contrived anti-satellite test. What're the Chinese gonna do, put more lead in the toy paint?

It'd be effective if the missile hit and didn't leave any debris.  It'd mean the US can roll out a missile from any suitable navy platform and take down sats up to at least 275km.

Then again it could just mean another arms race of sorts.
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: AKIron on February 14, 2008, 09:58:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by moot
It'd be effective if the missile hit and didn't leave any debris.  It'd mean the US can roll out a missile from any suitable navy platform and take down sats up to at least 275km.

Then again it could just mean another arms race of sorts.


The last time we had an arms race it led to the end of the Soviet Empire. Of course if China lost, they'd just go back to being China.
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: VooWho on February 14, 2008, 10:43:50 PM
You know since this is a Spy satellite, wouldn't you think it was carrying nuclear weapons on board? I mean if it was such a threat that it might crash in an urban area and they new they could blow it up with ease, wouldn't they just blow it up right away?

If you think about it though, satellites have falling back into earth, but burnt up on their way down. Wouldn't this satellite do the the same thing? But imagine a satellite with advance technology and was carrying nuclear weapons on board and it crashed into an urban area and a nuke exploded, there's going to be alot of explaining from the U.S. government.

So if you think about it, they're taking days to just destroy it b/c they want to know if they shoot it down from a certain area on earth and destroyed it over the ocean would anyone see the nuclear explosion. Also maybe they want to blow it up, so it doesn't fall the sky and cause a nuclear explosion or crash in the oceans by Russia, China, or some other country and have their military discover nuclear weapons that are still active. I bet this is a major coverup. Bull crap its a toxic fuel. If the thing catches on fire while rentering Earth couldn't the fires cause the fuel to explode miles above our heads?

Cover up  :noid
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: moot on February 14, 2008, 11:01:49 PM
No offense, but nukes?  That's as good as any other theory pulled out of nowhere.

The sat has 1000lbs of frozen hydrazine.  That'd already be enough to warrant making sure it breaks up enough to burnout before reaching the ground by sending a missile after it.

It's more likely to have bits of tech they don't want in anyone's hands.

You can't blow it up right away or it will leave debris for something like a century or two, or more.  Eventualy there is enough debris from debris smashing into healthy sats, that you've got an out of control positive feedback.  End result is no more space launches in Earth orbit because of the cloud of high speed particles everywhere.
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 14, 2008, 11:07:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by moot
The same thing would happen as does to lots of bigger rocks, daily.. :)

Dred keep in mind this is a school bus sized secret sat...


Well we keep bragging that we have missles accurate enough to put through a window.
A school bus should present no problem then
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: angelsandair on February 14, 2008, 11:14:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
sounds to me like a message for the chinese.


Only if the Clintons are back in office and give em the secrets like they did in the 1990s
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: soda72 on February 14, 2008, 11:36:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Russian
....and what are they planning to do with all debre left in space?  IIRC US was *****ing at China for shooting down their weather satellite....


according to this source any debris left won't be around long...

Quote

Gen Cartwright said there was no parallel with Beijing's actions as the Chinese satellite had been much further out from Earth, meaning its debris could be floating round for decades, endangering spacecraft.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7245578.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7245578.stm)
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: trax1 on February 15, 2008, 12:19:42 AM
Theres actually alot of debris floating around in space orbiting the Earth, the Air Force even has a division who's job it is to monitor all the debris floating around up there.
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: crockett on February 15, 2008, 06:04:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
yeah yeah , the chinese are 30 years ahead of the US in space stuff, or was that the russians that are 30 years ahead.


You are missing the whole point..We are much further advanced than them, however they showed that simple thinking and a low tech approach can counter just about any hi tech advantage we may have.

The first one they did with a rocket.. Pretty much the low tech slam into it approach.

The second a little more high tech, they used a high powered laser beam to temporarily blind one of our spy satellites. It was said at the time they could likely fully disable a satellite with the same approach.

Our continuing dependence on high tech solutions will eventually bite us in the ass. Sure I love all the technology that comes from all these cool military gadgets.. Yet I think our military seems to be trying to rely too much on high tech for it's future.

What good will unmanned drones be if they have no satellite to guide them? Same goes for anything dependant on GPS.. ect.. ect..
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: soda72 on February 15, 2008, 09:19:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
You are missing the whole point..We are much further advanced than them, however they showed that simple thinking and a low tech approach can counter just about any hi tech advantage we may have.

The first one they did with a rocket.. Pretty much the low tech slam into it approach.

The second a little more high tech, they used a high powered laser beam to temporarily blind one of our spy satellites. It was said at the time they could likely fully disable a satellite with the same approach.

Our continuing dependence on high tech solutions will eventually bite us in the ass. Sure I love all the technology that comes from all these cool military gadgets.. Yet I think our military seems to be trying to rely too much on high tech for it's future.

What good will unmanned drones be if they have no satellite to guide them? Same goes for anything dependant on GPS.. ect.. ect..



we need to build cylons, then we'll be safe....
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Airscrew on February 15, 2008, 09:20:51 AM
Skynet is the answer... then we'll have nothing to worry about...
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: john9001 on February 15, 2008, 10:32:47 AM
half of China's exports go to the US, again i ask, why would they attack their best customer?
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Fury on February 15, 2008, 12:43:21 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/02/14/spy.satellite/index.html

"In January 2007, China used a land-based missile to destroy a 2,200-pound satellite that was orbiting 528 miles above Earth.

But the impact left more than 150,000 pieces of debris floating above Earth, NASA estimates. The space agency characterizes nearly 2,600 pieces as "large," meaning greater than 4 inches across, which pose a potential threat to satellites and spacecraft.

China is responsible for 42 percent of all satellite debris in orbit as of January 1, most of it from that Fengyun-C meteorological satellite.

NASA has called it the worst satellite breakup in history."
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Airscrew on February 15, 2008, 12:48:44 PM
Somtimes a duck is still a duck.  Ok, maybe a Peking duck, but still a duck...
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: Gixer on February 15, 2008, 12:49:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
The last time we had an arms race it led to the end of the Soviet Empire. Of course if China lost, they'd just go back to being China.


Far more then just the arms race which lead to the end of the Soviet Union. Just one part of it and debatable whether it was a significant factor or not.


...-Gixer
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: moot on February 15, 2008, 02:09:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
You are missing the whole point..We are much further advanced than them, however they showed that simple thinking and a low tech approach can counter just about any hi tech advantage we may have.

The first one they did with a rocket.. Pretty much the low tech slam into it approach.

The second a little more high tech, they used a high powered laser beam to temporarily blind one of our spy satellites. It was said at the time they could likely fully disable a satellite with the same approach.

Our continuing dependence on high tech solutions will eventually bite us in the ass. Sure I love all the technology that comes from all these cool military gadgets.. Yet I think our military seems to be trying to rely too much on high tech for it's future.

What good will unmanned drones be if they have no satellite to guide them? Same goes for anything dependant on GPS.. ect.. ect..

No... NASA is stagnant because of red tape.  If China catches up it's not because of low tech but because there won't be any beating around the bush, just like there was no *****footing on the way to the Long March rocket BBQs... That's it in brief.  Read up on facts before you make claims like that.
Title: Pentagon told to shoot down satellite
Post by: trax1 on February 16, 2008, 06:37:27 PM
Apparently Russia is upset about us shooting this satellite down, saying that were using it as an excuse to test out missile defense system for shooting down other countries satellite's.

 http://www6.comcast.net/news/articles/general/2008/02/16/Russia.Dead.Satellite/