Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Lusche on February 18, 2008, 08:52:42 PM
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Currently the Hurricane IIc has ENY 10 in EW Arena.
Even without visiting the Arena one can easily question such a comparatively high ENY value for a plane that is as menauverable (as the Hurri (even for EW standards) and is equipped with 4 Hispano cannons.
But given the peculiarities of EW reality, it's even worse:
Usually the numbers are skewed in MA, meaning that one country (most of the time Bishops) has a considerable numerical advantage and steamrolls the arena. 4,5, even 8 vs one lonely defender are not rare at all. Sadly, the overall arena player numbers are so low that the ENY limiter does not kick in as much one with LW experience would suspect.
So the lone defender often is facing a steady stream of Hizooka equipped highly maneuverable fighters with alt advantage trying simply to overwhelm him - and the HO is standard.
Numbers:
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4302/kdewov6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3249/killsewcq2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
I am pretty sure that a plane with 36% of all kills and a K/D of 2(!) would not only have a ENY of 5, but would even be perked in LW arenas.
But I am not asking for a perk price, but just for an adjustment of ENY based on it's capabilities and utter dominance.
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If numbers were like that in a late war, it'd be getting a perk. Example=Chog.
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There is no way that they could perk the 2C mainly cuz it doesnt have too much of an advantage except turning ability. There was times where i dived on a spit and the p 51 behind me going lvl easily caught up with me and killed me. Hurri 2c is for nothing more than furbaling.
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Yes the Hurri can turn and it has those four cannons, but it is so slow it can't catch a cold. Maybe that is why they have left the ENY where it is.
BUT having been on the receiving end of the S.O.A.R. hoard in EW, I agree that tweaking the ENY of the Hurri would be a good thing.
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Definately on the early war arenas.
1. It doesn't really seem like an EW plane with the 4 20mms
2. It outturns nearly every plane and can outturn every plane in the hands of an experienced pilot.
3. It is more like a MW LW kind of plane if anything.
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it should be changed.
anytime Lusche gets his charts out *Nod in agreement ppl.
;)
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Originally posted by Lusche
Numbers:
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3249/killsewcq2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
if you look closely the goonie bird has more kills than the spitfire :D
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I have to disagree with you, Lusche . . .
I think the IIC definitely deserves a perk in addition to the 5 ENY in the EW arena.
Either that or just change the name to IIC Arena.
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yep, for early war arena put a light perk on it.
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Wow, I guess we see the power of the HO.
Just for fun, I checked Tour 96 MW stats.
Most kills:
TMS________Kills___K/D
F6F-6_______4092__1.17
Hurri IIC_____2994__1.83
P-38J_______2833__1.41
Spit IX______2008__1.31
BF-110G-2___1930__0.79
(Leaving out Panzer IV 4327, Osti 3660, Ship gunner 3033)
Highest K/D:
Typhoon IB___217__2.09
Hurri IIC_____2994__1.83
FM2________1004__1.46
P-38J_______2833__1.41
Ki-61________330__1.40
(Leaving out Ship Gunner 505.5, chute 173.0, Tiger 3.48, Il-2 1.61, Osti 1.49)
Sorry, no charts.
PS I have encountered a few Hurri IIC pilots that do not HO. You tend to notice things like that.
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Heck the hurri2C is the best overall IMHO in EW. It needs a light perk or better yet a lower ENY.
Heck if my 38G gets perked, so should everything else:D .
Lopsided numbers are a major pain in both the EW and MW arenas.
Bishes seem to hold numbers in EW; rooks in MW. Dunno if knights have a stronghold:confused: maybe LW??:D :D
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Last plane that dominated an arena like that was the C-Hog.
It is a little wierd, I would figure that with a population as skewed as that, planes like the A6M2 would see more use (just because they would dominate the Hurri-2C in a fight).
I guess it doesn't happen because almost nobody flies alone in those arenas, so the theoretical advantage of having a more manueverable plane is cancelled out by the fact that you probably won't kill the Hurri before the other Hurri kills you.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Last plane that dominated an arena like that was the C-Hog.
It is a little wierd, I would figure that with a population as skewed as that, planes like the A6M2 would see more use (just because they would dominate the Hurri-2C in a fight).
I guess it doesn't happen because almost nobody flies alone in those arenas, so the theoretical advantage of having a more manueverable plane is cancelled out by the fact that you probably won't kill the Hurri before the other Hurri kills you.
That's the way it is.
Usually you only see A6M on Ndisles map, where CV groups are used to sneak fields (No SB's on that map!!).
The theoretical edge in maneuverability is more than offset in the Hurri's 4x20mm faceshot capabilty.
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Originally posted by Hazard69
H
Lopsided numbers are a major pain in both the EW and MW arenas.
Bishes seem to hold numbers in EW;
It's far worse in EW than MW IMHO. Bish have three "dedicated" EW squads that do not care if anybody is flying against them: SOAR, Dickweeb, Prowlers.
Today was the first day for at least 2 weeks were I was on and the numbers weren't completely out of whack. 5 Bish, 3 or 4 rooks, 1 knight. For a short time there was even a kind of fight, until some guys figured it would be easier to steamroll some knight bases until some rooks log off.
You can't blame all the players all the time for that - low overall numbers do not lend themselves very good to MA gameplay. But when 3 squads on the same side happily capture undefended fields...
(Oh yes, I know, it's "Knight's and Rooks fault if they don't show up!" )
:D
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With the limited plane set in the arena, I don't believe it needs to be perked. Frankly, if you want to perk something, the F6F in MW is a much more deserving candidate. It overdominates in an arena with a much less limited plane set.
Besides, if you take down the Hurri, it simply becomes the Zeke arena.
Urchin, the reason they chose the Hurri over the Zeke is simple...firepower. When they can't get a Hurri, they will chose a Zeke.
One thing to be considered is the Gurlicane's duel roll in the EW. It is a viable fighter and the cannons also make it, often, the best anti-gv option.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
With the limited plane set in the arena, I don't believe it needs to be perked. Frankly, if you want to perk something, the F6F in MW is a much more deserving candidate. It overdominates in an arena with a much less limited plane set.
Besides, if you take down the Hurri, it simply becomes the Zeke arena.
Urchin, the reason they chose the Hurri over the Zeke is simple...firepower. When they can't get a Hurri, they will chose a Zeke.
One thing to be considered is the Gurlicane's duel roll in the EW. It is a viable fighter and the cannons also make it, often, the best anti-gv option.
And that's the reasons I asked for an ENY adjustment instead of perking. Hurricane II is a good plane for the average player to stop the usual M3-M16 flood, with a few capping fighters thrown in. Also I'm a proponent of "perk as little as little as possible", I'd rather try to see if ENY adjustment is sufficient.
But I disagree on the Zero becoming dominating after that. Slow speed, weak firepower and fragile construction would prevent a similar dominating status.
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Originally posted by badhorse
BUT having been on the receiving end of the S.O.A.R. hoard in EW, I agree that tweaking the ENY of the Hurri would be a good thing.
SOARS are easy to counter...just up a plane from the base they are attacking and they'll scatter like cockroaches, tripping over each other trying to run away from the lone defender.
Or you can up a P-38G and just blow away Hurricane II's all day long.
ack-ack
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I am continually suspicious of the Hurricane's flight modeling.
The Hurricane Mk IIc was seen as a ground attack aircraft by the RAF due to how badly it was outclassed by other fighters performancewise.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Last plane that dominated an arena like that was the C-Hog.
It is a little wierd, I would figure that with a population as skewed as that, planes like the A6M2 would see more use (just because they would dominate the Hurri-2C in a fight).
I guess it doesn't happen because almost nobody flies alone in those arenas, so the theoretical advantage of having a more manueverable plane is cancelled out by the fact that you probably won't kill the Hurri before the other Hurri kills you.
I think it's more of the Lemming Theory.
Player X sees Play Y landing XXX kills in Hurricane II. Player X sees 5 minutes later Player Z landing XXX kills in a Hurricane II. Player X sees 3 minutes later Player V landing X kills in a Zeke. Player X now thinks that since Player Y and Player Z landing so many kills in the Hurricane II, it must be uber so Player X now flies the Hurricane II along with 95% of the arena.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Karnak
I am continually suspicious of the Hurricane's flight modeling.
The Hurricane Mk IIc was seen as a ground attack aircraft by the RAF due to how badly it was outclassed by other fighters performancewise.
Having flown in it and against it quite a bit since the arena split, it is far from the uber plane some would like to believe. It has great guns and good turn....the pluses, pretty much, end there. It is a lot like the zero, in that, you have to allow someone to kill you with one. The plane it can't out turn, it can out run. The planes it does out turn, can easily establish an E add versus it and then it becomes just another cold cut on the dinner table.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
SOARS are easy to counter...just up a plane from the base they are attacking and they'll scatter like cockroaches, tripping over each other trying to run away from the lone defender.
Or you can up a P-38G and just blow away Hurricane II's all day long.
ack-ack
I fly with S.O.A.R. in EW and MW...I've never seen them run from a fight...EVER
#S#
Banshee7
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Originally posted by Banshee7
I fly with S.O.A.R. in EW and MW...I've never seen them run from a fight...EVER
#S#
Banshee7
:rofl , you sure? Not trying to downgrade SOAR, there a good friendly rook squad, but in EW.... meh :p .
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Having flown in it and against it quite a bit since the arena split, it is far from the uber plane some would like to believe. It has great guns and good turn....the pluses, pretty much, end there. It is a lot like the zero, in that, you have to allow someone to kill you with one. The plane it can't out turn, it can out run. The planes it does out turn, can easily establish an E add versus it and then it becomes just another cold cut on the dinner table.
It responds very handily to the controls, easily out rolling the Spitfire and Bf109 despite having a 40ft wingspan. It just seems to agile compared with historical accounts.
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Originally posted by MjTalon
:rofl , you sure? Not trying to downgrade SOAR, there a good friendly rook squad, but in EW.... meh :p .
I run into S.O.A.R. often in EW and I have never seen them as Rooks. I may have seen individual members fly as a Rook, but the S.O.A.R. hoard of EW base capture fame is Bish.
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Originally posted by Lusche:
It's far worse in EW than MW IMHO. Bish have three "dedicated" EW squads that do not care if anybody is flying against them: SOAR, Dickweeb, Prowlers.
Strange. You'd think three squads would want to pick different countries in the same arena so they can have some decent fights.:confused:
Guess they weak at counting?:D
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Originally posted by Hazard69
Strange. You'd think three squads would want to pick different countries in the same arena so they can have some decent fights.:confused:
Guess they weak at counting?:D
There are decent fellows in each squad. But, as groups...their Kung Fu is very weak.
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Lower ENY for IIC in EW, raise it in LW. Hurri IIC is NOT a Late War ENY 10 plane. Not by a long shot. But yest, ENY of 5 in EW.
And on the S.O.A.R. subject. Sorry, Im known to 'milkrun' and 'perk farm' on strat targets, but these guys make me look like a thrill seaker. Ive never seen less than 4 S.O.A.R. in a single grid. It just doesnt happen. And while they might not run, who would? 4 v 1 is not a scary sight... unless youre the 1.
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Who even goes on EW arenas now u cant score [prostitute]