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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: AAolds on February 20, 2008, 12:56:59 PM

Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: AAolds on February 20, 2008, 12:56:59 PM
I dont know about the rest of the players, but I personally am sick of people who climb bombers up to high alts, bomb targets and then bail at first sign of enemy.  Getting to the point, I dont even wanna play under such lame circumstances.  Id like to meet these bomb n bailers in person and make gorilla cookies with their faces.  What annoys me most is the time spent to climb up to fight only to have the dork bail.

Does HTC plan to address this issue or not?

Maybe a message in lights for bailing ought to be added so the lamer can get the recognition and ridicule they deserve for cheapening the game play for us all.


To the Bomb n Bailers, I hope all the bad stuff in life happens to you.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Denholm on February 20, 2008, 12:59:12 PM
It's been requested that there be some penalty for this method of game-play.

Fact is that this is a game, and if people are aroused by taking Heavy Bombers to a "Don't-return-home" mission that's how it will stay. Even if there is a penalty, they will definitely find a way around it that might be even more annoying than the previous method.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: hubsonfire on February 20, 2008, 01:01:06 PM
After 8 years, with no changes, I think it's safe to assume that HTC isn't going to make any changes that make it impossible, or even difficult, to bail out.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Spikes on February 20, 2008, 01:02:16 PM
If this were ever put into the game, how would you penalize them?
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: AAolds on February 20, 2008, 01:04:50 PM
There should be perk penalty of the ENY value of the plane that is bailed from when its suffering no damage.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: lyric1 on February 20, 2008, 01:06:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
There should be perk penalty of the ENY value of the plane that is bailed from when its suffering no damage.
 Agreed.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: AAolds on February 20, 2008, 01:08:15 PM
And if the puke cant pay for the perk penalty, they get negative perk balance or unable to launch any bomber under 40 ENY.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Denholm on February 20, 2008, 01:10:13 PM
Don't you think after dropping the payload the bomber is going to ask a local fighter to come up behind him, ping him a few times (Kill shooter), and bail?

I myself prefer that if you set out on a sortie and regardless if you achieve your goal or not, you should return home instead of bail out. However the more we attempt to prevent this from occurring the more intelligent the bomber pilots get in figuring out how to bail without any real loss.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: AAolds on February 20, 2008, 01:13:26 PM
If it was up to me, id just ban the sorry bugger for life and be done with it.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 20, 2008, 01:18:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
If it was up to me, id just ban the sorry bugger for life and be done with it.



Take a deep breath and repeat after me, "It's just a game..."


ack-ack
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Latrobe on February 20, 2008, 01:21:12 PM
I don't even go after bombers anymore. No matter how I come at them they tear my wings of in 3 pings, they usually are flying 260 mph (which can be barley caught by some planes), and if that doesn't work they'll just dive away at 380 mph or bail.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Spikes on February 20, 2008, 01:27:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
If it was up to me, id just ban the sorry bugger for life and be done with it.


What if the guy had to get off for the night and couldn't return home? You'd ban him because he had to leave?
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: AAolds on February 20, 2008, 01:33:47 PM
spikes, guy could have deceny to say something.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: AAolds on February 20, 2008, 01:41:41 PM
Whels made good suggestion on 200

Why not have Bomb n Bailers damage not count if they bail from undamaged plane due to enemy fire.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Rich46yo on February 20, 2008, 01:42:03 PM
I never bombed and bailed. There were a few times however where real life called and I had to. A few times also, when I was getting chased, I got discoed and those guys doing the chasing will go to their graves thinking I bombed and bailed.

                     The worst is the Lancstukas dropping on a GV mission, bailing, and then exactly 2 mins later you see fresh Lancstukas with a fresh bombload. Now thats rotten gameplay. I'd be to embarrassed to play like that.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 20, 2008, 01:56:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
spikes, guy could have deceny to say something.


Why should he?  There are more pressing matters that need HiTech's attention and this is certainly not one of them.


ack-ack
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: AAolds on February 20, 2008, 02:08:43 PM
I think Whels suggestion would work best.  Nullify the damage done by plane that bails without suffering damage due to enemy fire.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Karnak on February 20, 2008, 02:15:02 PM
Disallow bailing out of undamaged aircraft, fighters and bombers alike.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Krusty on February 20, 2008, 02:21:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
Whels made good suggestion on 200

Why not have Bomb n Bailers damage not count if they bail from undamaged plane due to enemy fire.


Because most times they wait to bail til AFTER they see if they've hit their target or not.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: AAolds on February 20, 2008, 02:27:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Because most times they wait to bail til AFTER they see if they've hit their target or not.


Hence why Whels suggestion would work well.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Krusty on February 20, 2008, 02:31:20 PM
Not really. A lot of times I've seen a bomb-n-bailer he's been 10k+ and level. He flies 1/2 a sector past the target to make sure he hit something then bails. So what if he bails after 2 minutes? What if he bails after 10?

What if he flies half an hour to land (no damage at all, never saw an enemy) and bails. Does the damage just revert?

Too gamey. Fields would fluctuate up and down nonstop. It would be chaos.

There needs to be a system that takes this into account.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Denholm on February 20, 2008, 02:45:34 PM
Going back to kill shooter, if the bomber simply has a friendly fly up behind him, he can shoot at him until damage shows in Ctrl + D on all his planes in his formation. I don't think the game codes decides between enemy and self-induced fire. And thus the bombers can bail out without the damage being reverted.

The payoff from this system wouldn't be enough to go through the hassle of implementing it. Although it would be nice to see more realistic mission, I don't think this would do anything to enhance people's experience.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Krusty on February 20, 2008, 02:50:49 PM
Currently I think bomber guns won't harm other friendly planes. I seem to recall somebody in MA shooting me up (both in bombers) but not taking FF. I think it only counts for fixed guns, maybe.


EDIT: The B-25 and B-26 and Ju88 could still do it, though. They have fixed guns in nose.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Denholm on February 20, 2008, 03:00:42 PM
Thanks for the info Krusty, I did not know this.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Tilt on February 20, 2008, 03:01:04 PM
Perk bombs...........  perk bailing
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Denholm on February 20, 2008, 03:01:34 PM
How will that help?:huh
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Bronk on February 20, 2008, 03:34:29 PM
Perk drones.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: WildeSau on February 20, 2008, 05:20:51 PM
I would guess most bomber perk's aren't used. ( this mainly happen in late war, from what I see) and I don't see that many 234's flying around. and the one's I do see will try to land. ( not just bail) I wonder why ? ( could it be that they cost perk's to fly ), most people who fly perk plane's don't like to lose them. just because this a cartoon game, its the thought of you losing something that make alot of people motivated. So what do you do with all those point's ?. ( i just look at them when i'm picking out my next plane). I would think they might not bail so much if it cost them something for not trying to land, (and if you have to leave the game because of a real life crisis you lose the point's just like if you were flying a tempest ot 262 .) Perk the bomber's  Imo.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: macleod01 on February 20, 2008, 08:34:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
EDIT: The B-25 and B-26 and Ju88 could still do it, though. They have fixed guns in nose.


Sorry Krusty, I was in 88's the other night in the rear gun and accidently pinged a friendly. I heard the killshooter getting me, so I took damage. Not sure if your talking about just the fixed guns or all guns in those plans. If its all, Forget what I just said.

On the note of the topic. The whole idea of costing perks would be really annoying. Ive got a few stick problems (Doesnt connect properly) Wheich means at times I lose control. Only way to get it back is to bail and quit game. So does that mean I lose perks because ive got a hardware problem? I would say thats unfair. It would be a very very thin line to distinguish who bailed for a good reason and who bailed just to Bomb and bail again.
As for the idea of the damage being void, what happens if the bomb the last building in town, and an M3 instantly dumps troops into map room. Field Captured so the guy bails. What happensto the field?  Does it revert? If so it causes an outcry in that country. If HT thinks it needs to be fixed, They'll fix it
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: AWwrgwy on February 21, 2008, 12:48:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
Whels made good suggestion on 200

Why not have Bomb n Bailers damage not count if they bail from undamaged plane due to enemy fire.



Ooold thread (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181845)


wrngway
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: SD67 on February 21, 2008, 01:11:54 AM
I like to land every sortie no matter what plane I fly.
I think that a perk percentage bonus for each plane successfully landed may help.  Something in the order of an extra 2% per plane safely on the ground. That way not only are you motivated to complete your mission, you are motivated to keep your drones in your formation.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Oleg on February 21, 2008, 01:17:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Perk drones.


^

If they cannt bail they will crash or disconnected. Perk drones, all heavy bombers or bombs and see how many suicide bombers will stay in arena.

Personally, i think perking bombs would be best, because it will affect suicide attackers too.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Wingnutt on February 21, 2008, 01:21:47 AM
+1 for the idea of making it impossible to bail from an undamaged bomber

seems like the perfect solution..   they cant bail untill take damage, and then they can if they want... but they give someone an easy (er) kill.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: hubsonfire on February 21, 2008, 09:24:00 AM
Or they just auger, disco, or Alt F4.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: whels on February 21, 2008, 10:03:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by macleod01
As for the idea of the damage being void, what happens if the bomb the last building in town, and an M3 instantly dumps troops into map room. Field Captured so the guy bails. What happensto the field?  Does it revert? If so it causes an outcry in that country. If HT thinks it needs to be fixed, They'll fix it


if they cant fly 1 min to land @ the field they just captured, they suck lol.

i like the no bailing from undamaged planes for all planes. should be damaged by ENEMY fire.

someone said something about. time period. how about 10-15 mins. then u could bail and it wouldnt matter, most what u can bomb on fields is regened in 15mins anway.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: waystin2 on February 21, 2008, 12:11:48 PM
Perk the drones.  I say if you lift off, then you gotta try to land it.  No matter how boring or annoying the return trip, I try to put the bird back down safely every single time.

Oink
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: dedalos on February 21, 2008, 12:19:51 PM
Make bail = death as far as score goes.  Take away the incentive to do it.  If dieing from bailing = dieing from guns, they will be willing to take a chance against the fighter.  This game just caters to/encourages lame game play now.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Lusche on February 21, 2008, 12:30:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Make bail = death as far as score goes.  Take away the incentive to do it.


Bomb & bail pilots are not interest in score at all. Else they wouldn't do it at all because it already wrecks their score. Bailing over enemy territory results in "captured" and already counts as "death" for score purposes (Damage per Death = TotalDamage / ((Discos * 0.5) + Bails + Captures + Deaths + 1))

Those players are usually playing for the "win" only.
Capture that field, capture them all, win the war! They call it "team player" ;)

(Just for the record, I have nothing against playing to win the war as such. I consider myself a "strategic player" in LW arenas too.)

And like it was already pointed out: If you remove the ability to bail, they will just crash.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Tilt on February 21, 2008, 12:59:53 PM
if you need perks to load bombs or select formations  but lose them when
you lose ac or even more of em if you bail or crash undamaged ac.

(The system seems to know if you "crashed" or "bailed" or were "shot down")

Then doing dumb stuff ends up spending the currency you need to choose bombs and or formations.

we cant really penalise those who care less and are determined but we can limit their total net influence.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: MajIssue on February 21, 2008, 02:20:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
There should be perk penalty of the ENY value of the plane that is bailed from when its suffering no damage.
Good idea Olds... I would add that there be no penalty in there is nobody within Ikon Range. That would cover fuel issues.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: AAolds on February 21, 2008, 02:23:34 PM
Good suggestions and comments here.  

Will Skuzzy add his 2 cents on the matter?
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: hubsonfire on February 21, 2008, 02:43:44 PM
You will want to talk to HiTech himself about changing the game.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: dedalos on February 21, 2008, 03:17:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
Bomb & bail pilots are not interest in score at all. Else they wouldn't do it at all because it already wrecks their score. Bailing over enemy territory results in "captured" and already counts as "death" for score purposes (Damage per Death = TotalDamage / ((Discos * 0.5) + Bails + Captures + Deaths + 1))

Those players are usually playing for the "win" only.
Capture that field, capture them all, win the war! They call it "team player" ;)

(Just for the record, I have nothing against playing to win the war as such. I consider myself a "strategic player" in LW arenas too.)

And like it was already pointed out: If you remove the ability to bail, they will just crash.


Original post was about high alt bombers that wait until you clime to them.  I see that almost every day in the MA.  Get a vis on a set of Lancs on the way to a target and they .ef, disconnect, or crash before the 2K threshold.  That does not make any sense in fighting the war or being a team player.

Whats the point then?  Just so they don't give the kill massage?  Change the 2K to 10K for buffs then
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Bronk on February 21, 2008, 03:31:55 PM
Once again,,,,,,,Perk drones.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Lusche on February 21, 2008, 03:32:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dedalos
Original post was about high alt bombers that wait until you clime to them.  I see that almost every day in the MA.  Get a vis on a set of Lancs on the way to a target and they .ef, disconnect, or crash before the 2K threshold.  That does not make any sense in fighting the war or being a team player.

Whats the point then?  Just so they don't give the kill massage?  Change the 2K to 10K for buffs then


I spend most of my time hunting high alt buffs 10-25k (getting 100-300 of my kills each tour that way), and rarely see that kind of behaviour. Maybe 1 out of 50 at most.
 
Bomb'n'Bail refers to buff pilots that... well, bail after bombing ;)


Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
Once again,,,,,,,Perk drones.


New players (most bomber sorties are actually done by non-vets), dedicated buff drivers and generally the majority of bomber pilots shall suffer for no other reason than a few rotten eggs?

Not only usage of bombers would drop, but the ones that would still fly them would tend to fly a lot higher than they currently use to. I already can see all those new whining about all that "buff alt monkeys" on this BBS ;)

BTW by the same logic you could perk all fighters, for suicide jabo'ing CV & GVs, constantly HO'ing and likewise bailing without damage.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: skyctpn on February 21, 2008, 03:56:36 PM
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!

HTC FORCE PEOPLE TO PLAY THE WAY I WANT!!

WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cry

I think ill start divebombing in lancs seems to be more annoying than shooting you guys down.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: lyric1 on February 22, 2008, 08:35:22 AM
This may be a simple fix? We have a system for punishing people on vox by giving them a vox time out for bad text, do the same if you bail you are automatically banned from bombers for the next how ever long the penalty should be?
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: Lusche on February 22, 2008, 08:54:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lyric1
This may be a simple fix? We have a system for punishing people on vox by giving them a vox time out for bad text, do the same if you bail you are automatically banned from bombers for the next how ever long the penalty should be?


Again:
If bailing is punished, bomb'n'bailers will just crash.
If you then go ahead and punish dying, you punish all "honest" players too.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: lyric1 on February 22, 2008, 09:25:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
Again:
If bailing is punished, bomb'n'bailers will just crash.
If you then go ahead and punish dying, you punish all "honest" players too.
 Valid point on the crashing part.
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: SD67 on February 22, 2008, 05:24:17 PM
I still think awarding a percentage perk point bonus for each landed bomber would help folks to land their sorties.
Then again for this to be effective there really should be some nice juicy perked bombers to blow them on. Anything but a B29 :lol
Title: Penalty for bomb n bail
Post by: derkojote23 on February 23, 2008, 12:01:38 AM
Hi olds, good to see ya. I’m in agreement with you on this its one of the buff issues, this and dive bombing the big birds. Iv seen many buffs come in drop and then when they figure they cant run away from a fighter or so they can up a GV right away they bail out. Would be good to get a fix on them.