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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: MjTalon on February 20, 2008, 08:21:22 PM

Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on February 20, 2008, 08:21:22 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/tigersalh/stuka7.jpg)


JU-87 G-1 Stuka[/size][/color]


Type
   Two-seat anti-tank aircraft

Powerplant

   One Junkers Jumo 211J-1 in-line 12 cylinder liquid-cooled engine rated at 1059 kW (1,420 hp) at 2,600 rpm (take-off / emergency) and 887 kW (1,190 hp) at 2,400 rpm (max. continuous).

Speed

   Maximum speed 410 km/h (255 mph) at 3840 m (12,600 ft) : maximum cruising speed with bombload or gun pods 310 km/h (193 mph) at 4000 m (13,124 ft) : normal cruising speed 190 km/h (118 mph).

Performance

   Service ceiling 7,290 m (23,915 ft) : ceiling with max load 4,730 m (15,520 ft) : maximum range 1,535 km (954 miles) : normal radius of action 448 km (280 miles).

Weights

   Empty equipped 3900 kg (8,598 lb) : max take-off 6600 kg (14,551 lb).

Dimensions

   Span 15 m (49 ft 2.5 in) : length 11.5 m (37 ft 9 in) : height 3.88 m (12 ft 9 in) : wing area 33.69 m2 (343.47 sq ft)

Armament

   Two BK 37 37-mm cannon in underwing pods : one 7.92 mm MG 81 machine gun flexibly mounted in the rear cockpit : up to 1,800 kg (3,968 lb) of bombs or gun pods for up to 6 machine guns when the BK 37's were not being carried..



Service in the East[/color][/size]

Limited numbers of Stukas served in North Africa and the Italian campaign , but it was in Russia that the Ju 87 had its greatest impact.In 1941 the Soviet air force was effectively wiped out by the Luftwaffe and the 290 Stukas sent to the Eastern Front could attack without fear of interception.Hans-Ulrich Rudel , Hitlers favourite pilot and Germany's most highly-decorated flier , crippled the battleship Marat in an attack on Kronstadt.It was he who later pioneered the 'tank busting' Ju 87G with its 37mm guns and claimed 519 tank 'kills' by the end of the war.Shot down 30 times , he truly bore a charmed life.It was not until mid-1943 that German bombers were seriously menaced by Soviet fighters.Stukas continued to operate in large numbers-over 500 of them attacked the Soviet bridgehead near Novorossiysk in April 1943.Ju 87s were supplied to allied air forces of Romania , Italy , Hungary and Bulgaria.Stuka production peaked that year at 1,814 units.Some 5,700 were completed before production ceased in 1944.

.:Video:.[/size][/color]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=q5uXpe_Imx8


Cmon HTC, show the german planeset some love, we currently don't have a ground attack plane. USAF, & russian has one ( B25H, IL2 ).
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Treize69 on February 20, 2008, 08:24:08 PM
YES. We had it in WB2, and it was a BLAST. Was great for deacking (since we had no GVs) and building pwnage.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Xasthur on February 20, 2008, 09:27:57 PM
The G2 would be better, but I would definitely like to see this.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Serenity on February 20, 2008, 09:37:53 PM
May I refer you to the wishlist thread?
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on February 20, 2008, 11:04:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Serenity
May I refer you to the wishlist thread?


whoops :D . Anyone mind moving to wishlist please?
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Sikboy on February 21, 2008, 08:56:08 AM
And with it for the Allies, give us this:

(http://www.battlefield.ru/pics/il2_13.jpg)

The IL-2 With two NS-37 Hammerguns, tossing AP rounds.

-Sik
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Sikboy on February 21, 2008, 10:23:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Treize69
YES. We had it in WB2, and it was a BLAST. Was great for deacking (since we had no GVs) and building pwnage.


Did you get a loadout choice? It seems like it would be terrible for either Deacking or building demolition if it were firing AP rounds.

-Sik
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Bruv119 on February 21, 2008, 10:38:05 AM
As a variant it shouldnt be hard to include.  

Having more planes other than hurri2d/b25h/il2 to shoot tanks with when ords are down is good.   Germany need their one but personally i would like to see the 57mm molins on the mossie if we are talking perked ammo loadouts.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Denniss on February 21, 2008, 12:37:01 PM
Where did you get the G-1 specifications from ?
The Jumo 211J had 1420 PS AKA 1400,5 hp AKA 1044.4 kW

AFAIK the G-1 had the shorter 13.8m wingspan, the G-2 used the larger wing of the D-5.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: SIG220 on February 21, 2008, 02:57:56 PM
Life is already pretty miserable for GV drivers.

Please don't add this to make driving a GV worse than it already is.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: VooWho on February 21, 2008, 03:02:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SIG220
Life is already pretty miserable for GV drivers.

Please don't add this to make driving a GV worse than it already is.


I don't see how it would make it worst. Its going to be the same GV killer pilot just not in his HurrIID, B25H, or Il2, but in his new Ju-87G. Besides we are getting the WW. 4 20mm shooting at that slow Ju-87 and you have Stuka bird for dinner.

I'm all for the Ju-87G.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on February 21, 2008, 05:08:23 PM
danke sir, trust me. We need some more german planes. Now i won't go on about the HE111, but this is just another varient of the current stuka.  I would really love to see this plane because german does not have a tank busting plane, note i did not say dive bomber.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Sikboy on February 21, 2008, 05:22:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MjTalon
danke sir, trust me. We need some more german planes.  


That's true. There are way too many Soviet Models in the game.

-Sik
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Rich46yo on February 22, 2008, 06:16:03 AM
Yeah I'd love to see it cause I'd love to see the Stuka more involved in the game. And any headache the big gun Stuka would cause for GV's would be offset by the fact the Stuka looks like a big fat turkey coming into M16s and Osti guns. Also dont forget were about to have a quad 20mm flak Gv introduced.

                        So it will all even out in the wash.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: ridley1 on February 22, 2008, 06:48:37 AM
somewhere on youtube(I believe) is gun camera footage of those 37's.....Man they make a big boom.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: VonMessa on February 22, 2008, 08:05:37 AM
Talen, let me know if I get too blue in the face from holding my breath.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Motherland on February 22, 2008, 12:52:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ridley1
somewhere on youtube(I believe) is gun camera footage of those 37's.....Man they make a big boom.

It's a (supposed) practice video. The person shooting is (supposedly, I dont know a lot of German so I cant tell what they're actually saying in the video) none other than Hans-Ulrich Rudel.
I posted it here a while ago.

This is at the very top of my wishlist.
Actually, the G2, since it had 20mm's in the wings instead of 7,92mm's.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: angelsandair on February 22, 2008, 04:43:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sikboy
That's true. There are way too many Soviet Models in the game.

-Sik



:rofl :rofl :rofl

are you kidding me????? Man there are only like 3 original soviet models in the game airpower wise and only 1 on the ground. There is the 1 or 2 american planes that have Soviet paint schemes on em, but it doesnt make them soviet....
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 22, 2008, 05:10:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by angelsandair
:rofl :rofl :rofl

are you kidding me????? Man there are only like 3 original soviet models in the game airpower wise and only 1 on the ground. There is the 1 or 2 american planes that have Soviet paint schemes on em, but it doesnt make them soviet....


(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/f/f3/200px-Foghorn_Leghorn.png)
"Boys as sharp as a bowling ball."




ack-ack
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Serenity on February 23, 2008, 03:33:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/f/f3/200px-Foghorn_Leghorn.png)
"Boys as sharp as a bowling ball."




ack-ack


Somebody shoot me, but I think I agree with Ack-Ack here... :noid
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Hazard69 on February 23, 2008, 03:49:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by angelsandair:
:rofl :rofl :rofl
are you kidding me????? Man there are only like 3 original soviet models in the game airpower wise and only 1 on the ground. There is the 1 or 2 american planes that have Soviet paint schemes on em, but it doesnt make them soviet....



:D :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl
That takes the cake, the baker, the baker's daughter and the entire bakery....
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Sikboy on February 23, 2008, 01:20:34 PM
Wow, nothing like catching one when you weren't even fishing lol.

-Sik
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: EagleDNY on February 23, 2008, 07:08:51 PM
I'd give it a try - the slow speed and stability of the stuka coupled with those 2 BK-37s looked like it worked pretty well.  Both cannons firing at once was a pretty awesome sight to see.  Those 37mms must be a lot more powerful than the average german cannon given the explosions and wrecked T-34s in the videos....
Title: BK-37 Ammo
Post by: EagleDNY on February 23, 2008, 07:25:33 PM
These cannons used some high-end ammo:
37mm x 263mm long

The AP had a 16mm tungsten core that could penetrate 130mm of armor plate at 100m (1,170m/s muzzle velocity).  No wonder it was such an effective tank killer.  

The HE ammo was a bigger variant of the german mine ammo - which meant that it had just enough front to penetrate a little bit of armor before going up in a big bang.  The youtube video of the attack on the barge looks like they were using this HE ammo, and it is making some impressive bangs.  

Sign me up for one of these....
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Motherland on February 23, 2008, 07:33:35 PM
The BK37 on the G-1/2 is similar to the 37mm gun on the Ostwind IIRC.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: SgtPappy on February 23, 2008, 08:09:23 PM
:aok
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on February 23, 2008, 08:09:26 PM
How about waffle, think ya gonna model us one for a prezzy :D ?
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 24, 2008, 01:44:36 AM
Better hope you're a good shot, think the Flak 18 cannon only carried 6 or 12 rounds in each pod.

(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/data/552/medium/7b7ebb79d9d7d3258ce44f6c7578b565.jpg)



ack-ack
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on February 24, 2008, 06:39:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Better hope you're a good shot, think the Flak 18 cannon only carried 6 or 12 rounds in each pod.

(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/data/552/medium/7b7ebb79d9d7d3258ce44f6c7578b565.jpg)



ack-ack



Been practicing strafing down tanks with the IL2, I'm getting there Ack-Ack :aok .
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Motherland on February 24, 2008, 11:08:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Better hope you're a good shot, think the Flak 18 cannon only carried 6 or 12 rounds in each pod.

(http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/data/552/medium/7b7ebb79d9d7d3258ce44f6c7578b565.jpg)



ack-ack

Currently, with the Ju87, you only have three chances... with 6 shots your doubling the odds. I'll take it :aok
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: ridley1 on February 24, 2008, 11:37:28 AM
The thing is...I can't see how anybody can say that bringing this version in is going to dominate the GV battle. (which everybody was complaining about)

With the impending arrival of the Wirblewind....this thing just may be cannon fodder.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: 442w30 on February 24, 2008, 12:18:47 PM
That would be a nice add to the mix.  Its nice to have options.  Of course, I'd never hit anything with that few rounds, but it would be fun to try.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: VooWho on February 24, 2008, 06:21:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ridley1
The thing is...I can't see how anybody can say that bringing this version in is going to dominate the GV battle. (which everybody was complaining about)

With the impending arrival of the Wirblewind....this thing just may be cannon fodder.


Thats what I said. With the WW the Ju87 is just meat for those 4 20mms. Anyways the Ju87 is very slow so basically anything could catch up to it.

I WANT IT!!!!
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Karnak on February 24, 2008, 06:47:46 PM
I'd like the Il-2 with the two AP ammoed NS-37s myself.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Sikboy on February 24, 2008, 08:36:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I'd like the Il-2 with the two AP ammoed NS-37s myself.


Word.

-Sik
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on February 25, 2008, 03:09:49 AM
Heres some more information about the Ju87G1:


http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ju87g.html
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on February 25, 2008, 03:24:10 AM
karnak, whats the diffrence between those, and the il's cannons right now?

Pluss guys, not only do those guns weight a ton, so does the ammo, yes they rocked gv's and ships boxers, no noone used them in air to air combat(?).

still, it makes the germans have a ground attack plane with UMPH.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: VonMessa on February 25, 2008, 03:50:31 AM
Hmmmmmm...


Rudel seemed to do OK with it.  Where's mine?
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Denniss on February 25, 2008, 05:08:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MjTalon
Heres some more information about the Ju87G1:


http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ju87g.html


Not really a good source. The G-2 was both converted from G-3  as well as new built. The site has the wing span wrong as well as engine power.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Sikboy on February 25, 2008, 07:25:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
karnak, whats the diffrence between those, and the il's cannons right now?



14 Millimeters of pain and suffering!

The NS-37 fired a much heavier round at a higher MV. It has considerably better armor penetration than any aircraft round in the game right now, and with that high MV, it would be a heck of a lot easier to hit with than the 40mms on the Hurri.

Basically, the NS-37 is the best gun evar!!!111! and it controls the universe.

-Sik
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Karnak on February 25, 2008, 09:03:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
karnak, whats the diffrence between those, and the il's cannons right now?


VYa 23mm cannon:
API = 880m/sec muzzle velocity and 77,400 joules at the muzzle.

NS-37 37mm cannon:
AP = 900m/sec muzzle velocity and 298,000 joules at the muzzle
HE = 900/sec muzzle velocity and 175,000 joules at the muzzle


The Yak-9T is armed with a single NS-37 37mm cannon firing HE rounds.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Krusty on February 25, 2008, 11:30:06 AM
How does that compare to the flak 18? I seem to recall folks saying *IT* was the best AP gun against tanks.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Sikboy on February 25, 2008, 12:00:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
How does that compare to the flak 18? I seem to recall folks saying *IT* was the best AP gun against tanks.


I'm having a hard time figuring this out... what airframes was this thing attached to?

-Sik
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Krusty on February 25, 2008, 12:03:36 PM
The Ju-87G of course!
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Sikboy on February 25, 2008, 12:06:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
The Ju-87G of course!


Sorry! Didn't know it was the same as the BK 3,7.

Lets see:

Lighter round at a higher MV. 405 Grams MV of 1,140 M/s for an Energy of... 263,000 joules.

-Sik
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Sikboy on February 25, 2008, 12:09:42 PM
Oh, and to give proper credit... It's all from Tony Williams, THE AH BBS Authority on Guns and Ammo!

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/miltech.htm

-Sik
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on February 25, 2008, 12:40:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
VYa 23mm cannon:
API = 880m/sec muzzle velocity and 77,400 joules at the muzzle.

NS-37 37mm cannon:
AP = 900m/sec muzzle velocity and 298,000 joules at the muzzle
HE = 900/sec muzzle velocity and 175,000 joules at the muzzle


The Yak-9T is armed with a single NS-37 37mm cannon firing HE rounds.




Oh..my....god.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Krusty on February 25, 2008, 12:53:46 PM
The round itself also has a sway in killing power. The HE on the Yak9T is almost impossible to kill tanks with (pnzr, etc), but with the AP it would be quite capable.


Only, the yaks never got AP ammo :D Hence the request for the same gun on the IL2
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Bodhi on February 25, 2008, 02:41:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
The Ju-87G of course!


I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that the FLAK 18 was the early version of the "88mm AA gun" or 88 mm Kwk 36 L/56 gun that had the one piece barrel.

Surely the German 37mm on the Ju-87G had a different name and you are confusing it..
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Krusty on February 25, 2008, 02:44:59 PM
I just pulled it off the caption in the image above. I had THOUGHT it was called a BK 3.7 but saw that other name and.. well, went with that.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Lusche on February 25, 2008, 03:12:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that the FLAK 18 was the early version of the "88mm AA gun" or 88 mm Kwk 36 L/56 gun that had the one piece barrel.
 


There was a 37mm Flak 18 as well as a 88mm Flak 18.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Bodhi on February 25, 2008, 05:09:38 PM
Do you have a link to it Lusche?
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Lusche on February 25, 2008, 05:20:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
Do you have a link to it Lusche?


Not at hand, but I guess google & Wikipedia can provide some infos ,)
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Bodhi on February 25, 2008, 05:25:41 PM
Looked, but found nothing of substance.
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Sikboy on February 25, 2008, 07:16:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
Looked, but found nothing of substance.


I had found just enough to confuse me lol.

-Sik
Title: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on March 02, 2008, 09:59:03 AM
Hope Waffle decides to model it :) .
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Pannono on March 07, 2008, 04:14:28 PM
correct me if im wrong, but the description said that it can carry approx 4k of bombs when cannons were NOT fitted. I propose that we get ridda the D and make one variant, with the 37mm loadout, the MG loadout, and the bomb loadout in the hangar. howzit sound?
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on March 07, 2008, 06:17:21 PM
One problem, i don't have 300$ for a bottle of scotch  :P!
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Tony Williams on March 16, 2008, 01:08:48 AM
Oh, and to give proper credit... It's all from Tony Williams, THE AH BBS Authority on Guns and Ammo!

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/miltech.htm (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/miltech.htm)

-Sik

Thanks for the mention  :aok

There is an article describing and giving details of all of the WW2 tankbuster aircraft guns here: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm

The ammo pics from it, from which you can get an idea of the relative performance:

(http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/FGww2APcarts1e.jpg)

.50 BMG, 20mm Hispano, 23mm VYa, 30mm MK 101/3, NS-37, BK 3,7, 40mm Vickers S Gun

(http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/FGww2APcarts2e.jpg)

German ammo: 20mm MG 151, 30mm MK 101/3, BK 3,7, BK 5, BK 7,5
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Tails on March 18, 2008, 07:36:10 PM
One problem, i don't have 300$ for a bottle of scotch  :P!

I'll go in for a third of the cost, if anyone is game.










(You think I'm joking?)
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on August 25, 2008, 03:05:19 PM
cmon HTC, model the G1, just add the wing guns.   :pray :pray
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: bobtom on August 25, 2008, 04:31:06 PM
Ok...this thread died months ago....
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: 321BAR on August 25, 2008, 04:50:45 PM
Ok...this thread died months ago....
This is a wonderful showing of a "punt"  :lol jk i'd love to c this model also
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Bronk on August 25, 2008, 05:04:32 PM
Going for the PNG titanic?
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 25, 2008, 05:19:17 PM
cmon HTC, model the G1, just add the wing guns.   :pray :pray

The G-1 didn't have any wing guns, just two removable gondolas mounted under the wing.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Scherf on August 25, 2008, 06:21:03 PM
cmon HTC, model the G1, just add the two removable gondolas

fixed.


 :rock
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: NEARY on August 25, 2008, 06:26:38 PM
we already have the a-20 which kills practiclly all of the gvs that get near our bases
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 25, 2008, 08:52:33 PM
we already have the a-20 which kills practiclly all of the gvs that get near our bases

Only with bombs, after the bombs go the A-20 will only kill soft skinned vehicles.  Might get lucky and track a tank or take out the pintle gun but the A-20 will not kill a tank with just the .50s.  The Ju-87G-1 and G-2 have single shot kill ability with the 37mm Flak 18 cannon.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: valdals on August 26, 2008, 12:00:32 PM
i like the stuka. but i have the one being used in this game. the stuka could not have been this bad. the bombs are sufficient but the flight of the plane sucks.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Bronk on August 26, 2008, 03:35:33 PM
i like the stuka. but i have the one being used in this game. the stuka could not have been this bad. the bombs are sufficient but the flight of the plane sucks.

Ok let us assume you strap on the big cookie. You do realize thats almost 2 tons added on a single engine aircraft, not to mention drag penalty?
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 26, 2008, 03:38:36 PM
i like the stuka. but i have the one being used in this game. the stuka could not have been this bad. the bombs are sufficient but the flight of the plane sucks.

If you actually took some time to read about the planes you fly, you'll know that the D-3 is the worst of the Ju87s.  The additional armor and wing design directly impacted the performance of the Ju87D-3 which resulted decreased maneuverability over the other Stuka variants.  Basically, the D-3 was almost a transition variant, from dive bomber to ground attack plane.  The D-3 was the last model to feature dive flaps.  However, in AH2, the Ju87 is probably one of the best turning aircraft and can still be a pain if the driver is any good.  YMMV.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: BnZ on August 26, 2008, 03:48:02 PM
i like the stuka. but i have the one being used in this game. the stuka could not have been this bad. the bombs are sufficient but the flight of the plane sucks.

It is the easiest to use of all dive-bombers to hit stuff with. Chop throttle, pop dive flaps, and you don't dive, you practically PARACHUTE straight down towards your target until you think you are as close as you ought to be, pickle the bomb, pull up. No worries about over-speeding you run into with any fighter-bomber, A-20s, etc. As for perfomance...well, its faster and climbs better than a Cessna, heh heh heh. And it carries the Big fng Bomb.

In turning, if anything, I'd say it is surprisingly good, considering the things were thought of as sitting ducks for Spit1s and Hurri1s.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: 321BAR on August 26, 2008, 05:56:38 PM
If you actually took some time to read about the planes you fly, you'll know that the D-3 is the worst of the Ju87s.  The additional armor and wing design directly impacted the performance of the Ju87D-3 which resulted decreased maneuverability over the other Stuka variants.  Basically, the D-3 was almost a transition variant, from dive bomber to ground attack plane.  The D-3 was the last model to feature dive flaps.  However, in AH2, the Ju87 is probably one of the best turning aircraft and can still be a pain if the driver is any good.  YMMV.


ack-ack
You know, u just made me want to fly that bird again, its been a while  :lol
It is the easiest to use of all dive-bombers to hit stuff with. Chop throttle, pop dive flaps, and you don't dive, you practically PARACHUTE straight down towards your target until you think you are as close as you ought to be, pickle the bomb, pull up. No worries about over-speeding you run into with any fighter-bomber, A-20s, etc. As for perfomance...well, its faster and climbs better than a Cessna, heh heh heh. And it carries the Big fng Bomb.

In turning, if anything, I'd say it is surprisingly good, considering the things were thought of as sitting ducks for Spit1s and Hurri1s.
There's a reason why in CoD2 u c stukas and spits fighting over El Daba, it's a great plane when u fly it right :aok
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: titanic3 on August 26, 2008, 06:11:51 PM
Going for the PNG titanic?

I may had have a couple of drinks or so when i did that.... :noid
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: extermino on November 03, 2008, 09:48:37 AM
Been too long since this thread was on the front page. Considering the addition of the new Il-2 cannons, shouldnt be too difficult to give us the cannons on the model we have now... or just give us the G model instead.  :aok

 :salute
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Xasthur on November 03, 2008, 07:35:42 PM
This thread is eternally popping up, so punting it is better than starting over. I'd love to see a re-modelled Stuka now that CT is off the agenda. :aok: It would great fun for bashing GV hordes. With a steady aim it might even be possible to joust weeble wobbles
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Charge on November 04, 2008, 05:51:15 AM
I was thinking about the plane set for eastern front scenarios. Ju87 with bombs and no guns (not even 2x20mm of D5) and IL2 with big effective guns but no bombs? Will be fun in trying to balance it...  :rolleyes:

-C+
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: SmokinLoon on November 04, 2008, 03:26:01 PM
The Germans have already have a good air to ground plane, two of the actually: the Fw190F-8 and Bf110G-6.  The F-8 with its 12 rockets, 550kg bomb (1k lbs), and dual 20mm can do a gv or two in quite easily.  The 110G with its dual 30mm, dual 20mm, 7.92mm MG's, and dual bombs (550kg) can make any gv's day a bad one.

I do agree though.. that adding in the Stuka with the 37mm tank busters would be fun.  It would be much like the Hurricane IID I'm sure, but with German markings.  :D
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Motherland on November 04, 2008, 05:25:25 PM
The Germans have already have a good air to ground plane, two of the actually: the Fw190F-8 and Bf110G-6.  The F-8 with its 12 rockets, 550kg bomb (1k lbs), and dual 20mm can do a gv or two in quite easily.  The 110G with its dual 30mm, dual 20mm, 7.92mm MG's, and dual bombs (550kg) can make any gv's day a bad one.

I do agree though.. that adding in the Stuka with the 37mm tank busters would be fun.  It would be much like the Hurricane IID I'm sure, but with German markings.  :D
The Bf.110G2 is incapable of killing tanks once it's dropped it's bombs. It was designed for the heavy fighter role (anti-bomber), so all the cannons fire HE rounds which are pretty ineffective vs. tanks. TBH I prefer the Ju87, Ju88 and Fw190F8 for Jabo work.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Xasthur on November 04, 2008, 06:55:46 PM
I do agree though.. that adding in the Stuka with the 37mm tank busters would be fun.  It would be much like the Hurricane IID I'm sure, but with German markings.  :D

Wayyyyyyyyyyy better.

High AoA should amount to a 1 shot-two round kill.

Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Novice3 on January 10, 2009, 12:20:21 AM
ok why did we get il-2 with 37mm cannon and not stuka. I always thought that stuka was asked for earlier????????  Plz  give us cannons for stuka pllllzzzz
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 14, 2009, 04:01:47 PM
hey can u do the jericho siren in the stuka? it'smy favorite airplane in the game, I tryed going to a reeeeaaallly high altitude, and diving, but no jericho siren! u can do it on il2 sturmovik (game) how come u can't do it on ah2? it would be cool!  :rock :D :D
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 14, 2009, 04:04:35 PM
I mean, wtf! why can't u get any variants of the ju87? at least the ju87g3! :devil :furious
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 14, 2009, 04:08:51 PM
get on u tube and look up ju87 guncam, they have this nice vid! also, look up jericho siren on ju87, they have another nice vid :D :D :rock
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 14, 2009, 06:27:13 PM
hey can u do the jericho siren in the stuka? it'smy favorite airplane in the game, I tryed going to a reeeeaaallly high altitude, and diving, but no jericho siren! u can do it on il2 sturmovik (game) how come u can't do it on ah2? it would be cool!  :rock :D :D

The D-3 was the first model not to have the dive siren.  The sirens were removed from the D-3 and onward.

I mean, wtf! why can't u get any variants of the ju87? at least the ju87g3! :devil :furious

IIRC, the G-3 was non-existant.

get on u tube and look up ju87 guncam, they have this nice vid! also, look up jericho siren on ju87, they have another nice vid :D :D :rock

The video with the dive siren is a Ju87B.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 12:45:12 PM
if the ju87 g3 is "nonexistant" then how come I just looked it up and they have a vid on utoob that has guncam footage for the ju87-g3? :uhoh
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 12:50:03 PM
get on utoob and look up tbf avenger startup, and theres this vid called tbf avenger startup, you should here those radials catch! man it is loud!!! :rock
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MiloMorai on January 15, 2009, 12:52:41 PM
if the ju87 g3 is "nonexistant" then how come I just looked it up and they have a vid on utoob that has guncam footage for the ju87-g3? :uhoh

Because someone has a typing problem.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 12:53:52 PM
damn... that engine is nice! buzzzzz (starter moter) for about 30 secs,  then BOOM, BOOM, BOOMBOOM the radials catch... man!  :rock
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 01:01:50 PM
wtf? i do NOT have typing problems... :mad:
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 01:03:30 PM
your the 1 with typing problems... :devil
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 01:04:42 PM
 can u post a vid on the forum? :cool:
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MiloMorai on January 15, 2009, 01:10:53 PM
wtf? i do NOT have typing problems... :mad:

Don't get your silk knickers all in a knot. :rolleyes: Whoever titled the vid has the problem. :P
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 01:12:04 PM
I do not wear knickers....you do! :rofl
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 01:13:13 PM
how do you become a gold member?
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MiloMorai on January 15, 2009, 01:15:13 PM
I do not wear knickers....you do! :rofl

Sorry about that. Your diaper then. :P
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 01:16:31 PM
nvm...i don't want to know. oh, you don't wear knickers... you wear silk ones!! :O :D
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 01:17:44 PM
and you wear silk diaper also, with barbies on it! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 01:20:08 PM
hahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 01:24:49 PM
I like vehicles like the tiger tank better than airplanes because they r tough as hell and it's easy to shoot people with... like the Ostwind.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 15, 2009, 01:26:47 PM
I really like the 40mm quad and dual. they are bad a--!
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Larry on January 16, 2009, 02:33:40 AM
Wow.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 16, 2009, 02:49:09 AM
Please don't tell me that one of glock89's relatives found these forums.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 16, 2009, 11:33:55 AM
who the diddly is glock 98?
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: tbm37323 on January 16, 2009, 11:37:12 AM
See Rule #6
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 16, 2009, 12:23:39 PM
who the twittle is glock 98?

You're doing a very good impression of him.

See Rule #6

With that comment, I think your stay in these boards will thankfully be short.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Cthulhu on January 16, 2009, 12:24:30 PM
Please don't tell me that one of glock89's relatives found these forums.


ack-ack
I was thinking the same thing reading the other Stuka thread. :rofl
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Banshee7 on January 16, 2009, 04:00:50 PM
 :noid

i agree with Larry....WOW!
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on February 08, 2009, 11:26:41 PM
punt. New terrain, new water, new stuka.  :pray
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Blake7 on March 09, 2009, 09:18:44 PM
We Need the G-1 In this game  IL2 Has got a G-1 In it
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Blake7 on March 09, 2009, 09:38:15 PM
there is a stuka flying of sorts

check out this vid think its a scale rep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIUpvtoX0_E&feature=related
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: jolly22 on March 11, 2009, 06:28:58 PM
yes i want that stuka
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on March 13, 2009, 08:46:36 PM
Why does my thread always attract the....new guys.  :huh
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on May 04, 2009, 07:00:03 PM
Get up here. Let's revive our G1 request, shall we?  :D
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Spikes on May 04, 2009, 07:43:39 PM
Wow.
Just reading through all this, I have the same expression on my face.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: StokesAk on May 04, 2009, 09:09:43 PM
That made my day. :lol
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on August 23, 2009, 08:56:44 AM
Bump.
 :)
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on September 20, 2009, 11:54:35 AM
Quote
Version 2.15
======================

Redesigned core game systems to quadruple the number of weapon hardpoints and damage items for future development and expansion.


First part done. Bring the Stuka G1!
 :aok
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: MjTalon on November 09, 2009, 08:57:32 AM
Bump
 :banana:
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: JunkyII on November 09, 2009, 09:40:38 AM
If you keep wishing it will come :aok :salute
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Mojava on May 27, 2010, 12:25:59 PM
 :aok
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Yossarian on May 27, 2010, 01:16:47 PM
I would love this plane!  As great as the B-25H is, it does present a rather large target...
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 27, 2010, 01:33:55 PM
I would love this plane!  As great as the B-25H is, it does present a rather large target...

And you somehow think the Ju-87G-1 will not be as easy of a target?  You probably have a greater chance of survivability in the B-25H than you would in a Stuka.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Yossarian on May 27, 2010, 02:50:02 PM
And you somehow think the Ju-87G-1 will not be as easy of a target?  You probably have a greater chance of survivability in the B-25H than you would in a Stuka.

ack-ack

I haven't flown the Stuka anywhere near enough to comment on its manoeuverability, but at the very least the Stuka would be a smaller target than the B-25.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 27, 2010, 03:00:12 PM
I haven't flown the Stuka anywhere near enough to comment on its manoeuverability, but at the very least the Stuka would be a smaller target than the B-25.

The G-1 would not be very maneuverable at all, those gondolas come with a price.  The only thing the Stuka would have on the B-25H in terms of having a chance to survive is the smaller size which unfortunately is pretty much negated with its slow speed and rather poor maneuverability.  The Ju 87G-1s survivability pretty much requires having at least decent fighter protection or in ideal circumstances, operating under total tactical air superiority.  At least the B-25H would be able to defend itself if caught without fighter protection or not operating in an area under tactical air superiority.  In addition, the Mitchell enjoys better defensive fire power and coverage.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Yossarian on May 27, 2010, 03:50:09 PM
The G-1 would not be very maneuverable at all, those gondolas come with a price.  The only thing the Stuka would have on the B-25H in terms of having a chance to survive is the smaller size which unfortunately is pretty much negated with its slow speed and rather poor maneuverability.  The Ju 87G-1s survivability pretty much requires having at least decent fighter protection or in ideal circumstances, operating under total tactical air superiority.  At least the B-25H would be able to defend itself if caught without fighter protection or not operating in an area under tactical air superiority.  In addition, the Mitchell enjoys better defensive fire power and coverage.


ack-ack

Good point, I'd forgotten about the whole cannon bit :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: whipster22 on May 27, 2010, 06:04:08 PM
top airspeed 195 mph :lol

AK-AK is right those gondolas do come at a price
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Greziz on May 27, 2010, 06:51:11 PM
The stuka would be better for slaying gv's simply because it could make steeper dives without tearing its own wings off.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: VonMessa on June 01, 2010, 07:03:16 AM
The stuka would be better for slaying gv's simply because it could make steeper dives without tearing its own wings off.

You would look really cool while doing it, too  :devil
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: whipster22 on June 01, 2010, 07:16:53 PM
The stuka would be better for slaying gv's simply because it could make steeper dives without tearing its own wings off.

you'd tear the gondies off  :P
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Nemisis on June 01, 2010, 09:49:49 PM
This is a crappy idea. Just about as bad as giving the I-l2 AP rounds. I want 6 or so AP rounds for the B-25H because it is a big wallowing tub that I can nail at 1000yds with the main gun, and the cocpit is like paper. But a stuka would be much harder to hit.


WHY DOES EVERYONE HATE TANKS?!?!?
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Yossarian on June 02, 2010, 04:24:17 AM
This is a crappy idea. Just about as bad as giving the I-l2 AP rounds. I want 6 or so AP rounds for the B-25H because it is a big wallowing tub that I can nail at 1000yds with the main gun, and the cocpit is like paper. But a stuka would be much harder to hit.


WHY DOES EVERYONE HATE TANKS?!?!?

Tank shoots me down with main gun ==> I hate that tanks ==> I somehow do my best to kill that tank ==> another tank gets in the way ==> I either kill it or get annoyed when it kills me ==> I either enjoyed killing it or hate it for killing me ==> I enjoy blowing up tanks
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: kilo2 on June 02, 2010, 04:47:01 AM
top airspeed 195 mph :lol

AK-AK is right those gondolas do come at a price

Makes Rudels air to air victory's in the plane more impressive.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 02, 2010, 05:09:18 AM
Makes Rudels air to air victory's in the plane more impressive.

Not really since his kills in the Stuka were a result of his gunner and he may have also scored a few of his 9 kills in the FW 190F-8 which he also flew.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Bronk on June 02, 2010, 05:22:44 AM
Just about as bad as giving the I-l2 AP rounds.
Ummm that is all the IL-2 ever had in game champ.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Charge on June 02, 2010, 05:51:04 AM
"Not really since his kills in the Stuka were a result of his gunner and he may have also scored a few of his 9 kills in the FW 190F-8 which he also flew."

Well, he shot down an IL-2 with those 37mms. The weapon effect was said to have been quite spectacular -even with AP.

-C+
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: kilo2 on June 02, 2010, 05:55:00 AM
Not really since his kills in the Stuka were a result of his gunner and he may have also scored a few of his 9 kills in the FW 190F-8 which he also flew.

ack-ack

he scored 11, 9 in the dive bomber. Not all or most of his kills were the rear gunner and as stated he did destory a IL2 with the 37mms.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: 321BAR on June 02, 2010, 06:09:51 AM
Tank shoots me down with main gun ==> I hate that tanks ==> I somehow do my best to kill that tank ==> another tank gets in the way ==> I either kill it or get annoyed when it kills me ==> I either enjoyed killing it or hate it for killing me ==> I enjoy blowing up tanks
if you weren't in my squad, that tank would be me :D i just recorded a funny video of killing planes. wish i got all of the fight recorded cuz i made better shots than even i could imagine possible :lol   now if i could just upload it :headscratch:
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 04:20:12 PM
Ummm that is all the IL-2 ever had in game champ.

Il-2 has HE rounds doesn't it  :huh? I've seen it used to great effect as a town killer (ap rounds aren't all that great at killing buildings).

Also, when you get a hit on the back of a panzer, it shows the same explotion and that little swirl of smoke you get when you hit them with an osti. I serisouly doubt that the Il-2 has AP rounds.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 04:21:25 PM
Ummm that is all the IL-2 ever had in game champ.

Il-2 has HE rounds doesn't it  :huh? I've seen it used to great effect as a town killer (ap rounds aren't all that great at killing buildings).

Also, when you get a hit on the back of a panzer, it shows the same explotion and that little swirl of smoke you get when you hit them with an osti. I serisouly doubt that the Il-2 has AP rounds.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Lusche on June 02, 2010, 04:45:05 PM
Il-2 has HE rounds doesn't it  :huh?

No.

The IL-2 and Hurri D have dedicated AP loadout.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 04:52:25 PM
If thats so, then why is it so hard to kill a panzer from the side? I've done it in an M8 many times before, and the Russian 37mm cannon can't have that much worse armor penetration qualities.

Edit: And can someone please explain to me the explotion and the little swirl of smoke you get when hitting a panzer in the rear? I'm pretty damn sure the Osti doen't use AP rounds, and it looks identicle.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Spikes on June 02, 2010, 04:55:12 PM
You talking about the tater hit? If you were to light up a plane with a tater?
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 04:59:24 PM
No, you can kill a panzer or T-34 with the osti. back of the panzer, or side of the drivers compartment for the T-34. But when you DO get a hit with one, the hits look IDENTICAL to the ones you get with the Il-2. Same explotion, and the same little smoke swirl one the..... I guess they're flames....... clear.

The hits also look the same as the Yak9T, and I'd bet that they didn't use AP rounds either. Why use AP rounds with something intended for air to air work?


Come to think of it, you get the same thing when you hit an armored vehicle's tracks with the osti as well, and the U.S. 37mm, AND the german 30mm.

If the Il-2 and Hurri IID have AP rounds, we need to get the hit vizualizations changed to hit sprites.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Lusche on June 02, 2010, 05:02:52 PM
If thats so, then why is it so hard to kill a panzer from the side? I've done it in an M8 many times before, and the Russian 37mm cannon can't have that much worse armor penetration qualities.

It's not that difficult to do it in a 37mm Il2, and the 37mm M-6 is  actually a more powerful cannon (about 15-18% higher muzzle energy)


The hits also look the same as the Yak9T, and I'd bet that they didn't use AP rounds either. Why use AP rounds with something intended for air to air work?

The Yak-t does not use AP in game.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 05:10:00 PM
Yes, but Il-2's get fairly close (D800 at the furthest usually), where as I've killed a panzer at 1600 yds with 7 shots. I think that the penetration would even out concidering the range has doubled at least.

And seeing as the Yak-9T and Il-2 37mm cannons show hits on tanks the same way, either the Il-2 uses HE, the Yak-9T uses AP, or HTC fell asleep at the switch on this one.

That is unless someone can explain to me why hits on the same vehicle with the same cannon will look like hits with HE rounds when the cannon is infact firing AP rounds.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Lusche on June 02, 2010, 05:13:37 PM
Yes, but Il-2's get fairly close (D800 at the furthest usually), where as I've killed a panzer at 1600 yds with 7 shots. I think that the penetration would even out concidering the range has doubled at least.

And seeing as the Yak-9T and Il-2 37mm cannons show hits on tanks the same way, either the Il-2 uses HE, the Yak-9T uses AP, or HTC fell asleep at the switch on this one.

That is unless someone can explain to me why hits on the same vehicle with the same cannon will look like hits with HE rounds when the cannon is infact firing AP rounds.

Let's say.. I have no idea about the hit sprites, I don't really notice them... they just tell me that I have hit. ;)

But the Il-2 23mm & 37mm and the Hurri D are firing AP, the Yak-9T is not. (You can easily test the difference between Yak and Il offline by attacking the Tiger's top armor.)
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Lusche on June 02, 2010, 05:16:19 PM
Yes, but Il-2's get fairly close (D800 at the furthest usually), where as I've killed a panzer at 1600 yds with 7 shots. I think that the penetration would even out concidering the range has doubled at least.

According to the tables at http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/guns/37-mm.asp the American M-8' 37mm gun shooting APC can penetrate ~48mm at 1000yds.
According to Anthony Williams, the NS-37 would had similar penetration at 500m only. (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm)
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 05:26:45 PM
1000 is twice 500, just as 1600 is double 800. And 800yds is the typical MAXIMUM range that Il-2's will open up on a tank.


And really, my point isn't that the penetration seems too low for an AP round (which it does IMO), but that the hits look the same as those you get with an HE round. Either HTC needs to fix the hit vizualizations or he needs to enlighten us as to weather or not the Il-2/ IID use AP rounds or HE rounds.

I've killed a panzer in 8 shots from a Yak-9T, and I've killed a panzer in 9 shots from an Il-2 (the only time I got 100% accuracy with the Il-2, sadly  :(). Range was the same, angle of attack was the same, hell, the panzer was even holding still for both of those kills.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Lusche on June 02, 2010, 05:40:52 PM
1000 is twice 500, just as 1600 is double 800. And 800yds is the typical MAXIMUM range that Il-2's will open up on a tank.

Exactly. And that's what my numbers say: M-8 has same penetration at double the range.  Il-2 at 800 is like M-8 at 1660 :)


Quote
I've killed a panzer in 8 shots from a Yak-9T, and I've killed a panzer in 9 shots from an Il-2 (the only time I got 100% accuracy with the Il-2, sadly  ). Range was the same, angle of attack was the same, hell, the panzer was even holding still for both of those kills.
Singular events in the MA's are not a very good source, particularly against a comparatively light armored tank.

In offline mode, you have complete comtrol over all important factors, and you can test both guns against a tougher target (Tiger).

I have spent literally a whole afternoon firing hundreds of rounds into the top armor... never had a problem to make Tiger smoke  with a few fired rounds 10-30, but with the Yak-t... nada.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Bronk on June 02, 2010, 05:41:58 PM
1000 is twice 500, just as 1600 is double 800. And 800yds is the typical MAXIMUM range that Il-2's will open up on a tank.


And really, my point isn't that the penetration seems too low for an AP round (which it does IMO), but that the hits look the same as those you get with an HE round. Either HTC needs to fix the hit vizualizations or he needs to enlighten us as to weather or not the Il-2/ IID use AP rounds or HE rounds.

I've killed a panzer in 8 shots from a Yak-9T, and I've killed a panzer in 9 shots from an Il-2 (the only time I got 100% accuracy with the Il-2, sadly  :(). Range was the same, angle of attack was the same, hell, the panzer was even holding still for both of those kills.

Try this. See how many 37 mm IL2 rounds it takes to kill a town building, then from a yak T.
You will not kill a tiger with a yak t but will with an IL2 and a hurri d. Can you guess why?

Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 05:53:33 PM
If what you say is true, then htc NEEDS to fix the hit visualizations, as they are the ones used for HE round hits agains armor.


You get the same hit visualizations when firing at the tiger in offline mode, both with the Yak-9T and the Il-2.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Bronk on June 02, 2010, 05:59:33 PM
If what you say is true,
Not "if"... is.

What is your big hang up on the hit splash?  Really?


Edit: put it up in the wishlist if it irks you that much.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: E25280 on June 02, 2010, 06:00:08 PM
All that means is that there is a different generic hit sprite that HTC uses for 30mm and 37mm guns.  No big whoop.  Not sure why you are fixated on the eye candy rather than the capabilities of the weapon itself.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 06:05:56 PM
I'm just a little annoyed that we are too lazy to give a gun the correct hit sprite. I bet you would be a bit annoyed if .50's and 20mm's had the same hit sprites as the 30 and 37mm cannons. I use what I see to judge if my rounds connected  with what I was aiming at (and in a tank, if they penetrated or ricocheted), and now I find out that the visualizations I was using are incorrect for the ammunition type the gun is firing.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: E25280 on June 02, 2010, 06:10:37 PM
I still don't understand the problem.  You either get a hit sprite (whether a white flash or an orange fireball, makes no difference) or you get a ricochet.  One means you did damage, the other means you did not.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Nemisis on June 02, 2010, 06:15:22 PM
I no longer have a problem with the hit sprite. But it is incorrect, and so should be fixed.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 02, 2010, 06:16:39 PM
"Not really since his kills in the Stuka were a result of his gunner and he may have also scored a few of his 9 kills in the FW 190F-8 which he also flew."

Well, he shot down an IL-2 with those 37mms. The weapon effect was said to have been quite spectacular -even with AP.

-C+


Unfortunately, there is no real information on whether or not Rudel scored any A2A victories in any of the Ju87 models he flew.  Not even in his own book "Stuka Pilot" does he mention shooting down any planes in the Ju87, however, he does credit his rear gunner with downing a couple of enemy fighters.

There is one instance that has fueled the fire of Rudel shooting down an enemy plane in a Ju 87G-1, and that was the fight between him and Soviet ace Lev Shestakov.  However, even in Rudel's own words, he doesn't know if Shestakov was shot down by Rudel's rear gunner or if the Shestakov got caught in the turbulence from the Rudel's Stuka and crashed.

Further compounding the confusion is the exact number of A2A kills by Rudel aren't really known.  Some sources cite 9 kills while others cite 11 but all credit the A2A kills having taken place during Rudel's 400 missions flying the Focke Wulfe.

Could Rudel have shot down a fighter in a Ju 87G-1?  Sure, it's possible after all, the first A2A kill for the Luftwaffe was by a Ju 87B that shot down a Polish fighter that was trying to climb up and intercept a group of Stuka's over flying the Polish air base.  In any case, there is no real proof that Rudel achieved any of his A2A victories in a Stuka.  If he did, you would have thought he would have mentioned it in his book.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: kilo2 on June 03, 2010, 01:28:15 AM
Unfortunately, there is no real information on whether or not Rudel scored any A2A victories in any of the Ju87 models he flew.  Not even in his own book "Stuka Pilot" does he mention shooting down any planes in the Ju87, however, he does credit his rear gunner with downing a couple of enemy fighters.

There is one instance that has fueled the fire of Rudel shooting down an enemy plane in a Ju 87G-1, and that was the fight between him and Soviet ace Lev Shestakov.  However, even in Rudel's own words, he doesn't know if Shestakov was shot down by Rudel's rear gunner or if the Shestakov got caught in the turbulence from the Rudel's Stuka and crashed.

Further compounding the confusion is the exact number of A2A kills by Rudel aren't really known.  Some sources cite 9 kills while others cite 11 but all credit the A2A kills having taken place during Rudel's 400 missions flying the Focke Wulfe.

Could Rudel have shot down a fighter in a Ju 87G-1?  Sure, it's possible after all, the first A2A kill for the Luftwaffe was by a Ju 87B that shot down a Polish fighter that was trying to climb up and intercept a group of Stuka's over flying the Polish air base.  In any case, there is no real proof that Rudel achieved any of his A2A victories in a Stuka.  If he did, you would have thought he would have mentioned it in his book.

ack-ack

I have read about the shestakov fight and he did put rounds on target at least he thought he did and his gunner thought he did as well. I don't know, but the guy was really good in the plane.
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 03, 2010, 02:32:13 AM
I have read about the shestakov fight and he did put rounds on target at least he thought he did and his gunner thought he did as well.

This is from his book describing the fight.  At the time, he didn't know who the La-5 pilot was and ironically, Shestakov didn't either even though he was hunting Rudel.  

Found this when looking up more information about their fight.  
Quote
Lev Shestakov eventually flew more than 200 missions during the war, took part in 32 aerial combats and was credited with 15 kills before being killed in action in March 1944. According to Lavrinenkov's book, Lev Shestakov fought a private war with a well-known German Stuka ace - a 'Kurt Renner', who was awarded 'the Golden Knight's Cross'. No such Stuka ace existed, but the famous Stuka flier Hans-Ulrich Rudel - who flew over the same operational area as did Shestakov - was the only person to be awarded the Knight's Cross with the Golden Oak Leaves.

Interestingly, Lavrinenkov, who flew in Shestakov's unit, describes how he once met 'Renner' on the ground. His Airacobra hit by debris from a FW 189 he had shot down, Lavrinenkov went down over enemy-held territory and was captured by the Germans. He was brought to the Stalino airfield, where he met 'Renner'. Lavrinenkov claims that 'Renner' thought he was Shestakov, because he flew the Airacobra with call-code '01'. (Later, Lavrinankov managed to escape from a POW transport due to Germany, joined a guerilla detachment and eventually managed to make it back to the regular Soviet troops, where he re-joined his Fighter Regiment and took up combat flights again.) During this time, Hauptmann Hans-Ulrich Rudel (appointed commander of III./St.G. 2 'Immelmann' in September 1943) was stationed in Stalino.

During the first months of 1944, Lev Shestakov was hunting a Ju 87 with a viper painted along its fuselage sides - assuming that this conspicuos aircraft was flown by Rudel. Major Rudel certainly flew a Ju 87 G - one of the few Ju 87s still active in 1944 - over the same battlefields as Shestakov during this time. Due to his considerable successes against Russian tanks, Rudel was a highly coveted prey among the Soviet fighter pilots - as confirmed in Rudel's autobiography. Until March 1944, Rudel was credited with the destruction of more than 200 Soviet tanks and was awarded the Diamonds to his Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords.

On 13 March 1944, Lev Shestakov finally caught the Ju 87 he had been hunting for so long. Hit by a burst from Shestakov's La-5FN from short distance, the Ju 87 exploded in mid-air near Proskurov. But Shestakov didn't live to celebrate his victory. According to the version given in Lavrinenkov's book, his Lavochkin was thrown into a spin from the explosion and the famous Russian ace fell towards his death.

Obviously Rudel wasn't killed but it doesn't mean the encounter didn't happen because records do support that this was the engagement that Rudel described in his book about being bounced by a Lag-5.  Unfortunately, Lavrinenkov was incorrect about the Stuka being blown up, as Rudel survived.  It's thought that Lavrinenkov was just repeating the official Soviet version of Shestakov's death as they didn't want to reveal that one of their top aces was shot down by a Stuka.

This is from Rudel's book describing the fight.  Again, his description of the fight and from Lavrinkenkov gives credence that the "excellent La-5 pilot" was Shestakov.
Quote
'I just can't understand how he manages to follow my sharp turns in his fighter aircraft', wrote Rudel: 'Sweat poured from my forehead.' Rudel started preparing himself for the final end, as he suddenly heard his rear-gunner, Stabsarzt Ernst Gadermann, cry over the R/T: 'Got the Lag!' Rudel continues: 'Was he shot down by Gadermann, or did he go down because of the backwash from my engine during these tight turns? It doesn't matter. My headphones suddenly explode in confused screams from the Russian radio; the Russians have observed what happened and something special seems to have happened... From the Russian radio-messages, we discover that this was a very famous Soviet fighter pilot, more than once appointed as Hero of the Soviet Union.'


I don't know, but the guy was really good in the plane.

While I despise Rudel for his political beliefs (he was an unrepentant, hard-core Nazi), I do agree that he was an excellent pilot and probably the best attack pilot that ever flew.  He would have made an excellent fighter pilot as well, he was a double ace on top of all the stuff he did in the ground attack role.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Charge on June 03, 2010, 07:35:09 AM
"Unfortunately, there is no real information on whether or not Rudel scored any A2A victories in any of the Ju87 models he flew.  Not even in his own book "Stuka Pilot" does he mention shooting down any planes in the Ju87, however, he does credit his rear gunner with downing a couple of enemy fighters."

It should be mentioned in English version as well, maybe end of chapter 12 ("Further West" or something like that) when they were stationed on Pervomaisk, Ukraine in beginning of -44.

"While I despise Rudel for his political beliefs (he was an unrepentant, hard-core Nazi), I do agree that he was an excellent pilot and probably the best attack pilot that ever flew.  He would have made an excellent fighter pilot as well, he was a double ace on top of all the stuff he did in the ground attack role."

I'm not sure if anybody like him after all as a personality. In Finnish version there is lots of additional information and corrections of all the events that could be traced also in German war diaries and all the dates of lost German pilots and aircraft types they flew. It is also noted that while Rudel likes to talk about friendship and common cause etc. the other seasoned pilots found him quite repulsive in his opinions and depicted him as pompous and selfish.

-C+
Title: Re: Stuka JU87-G1 Ground Attack
Post by: Slade on June 21, 2010, 04:10:56 PM
Stuka JU87 Ground Attack Variant

+1