Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: captain1ma on February 21, 2008, 09:24:34 AM
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I hear everyone squawking about vulching, HO'ing, dweebery, ganging etc.
Maybe we should set forth Rules of engagement In AVA. here are my thoughts.
1. No HO'ing, on the merge you cannot fire at your opponent. you must wait to get atleast a 10 or 2 o'clock shot.
2. no vulching. if the guy is coming in for a landing, you cannot shoot him.
If hes taking off, you cant shoot til the wheels are up!
3. Ack Running. if in a 1V1 you are not allowed to run to ACK. you must fight like a man and either live or die. if on the other hand you are in a 1 V 5 or more, you are now allowed to run like hell if you like.
4. Ganging, No more then 3V1 if you are the 4th fighter, you must pull off and go find something else to do.
5. running, once you've turn tailed and left the fighting field, even if being chased, you are not allowed to turn and go back after the guy chasing you. you must return to base and re-up.
6. alt monkey. you are not allowed to BNZ the other side from more then 2000 above said victim. you cannot loiter at 20k and then come blasting in on a guy at 8k. Not allowed, sorry!
7. interuptions. you are not allowed to interupt anyone engaged in a intimate conversation with a sheep. and no sheep-sharing!!
any thoughts??? this is just my 2 cents
Long Live Storch!!
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Originally posted by captain1ma
I hear everyone squawking about vulching, HO'ing, dweebery, ganging etc.
Maybe we should set forth Rules of engagement In AVA. here are my thoughts.
1. No HO'ing, on the merge you cannot fire at your opponent. you must wait to get atleast a 10 or 2 o'clock shot.
2. no vulching. if the guy is coming in for a landing, you cannot shoot him.
If hes taking off, you cant shoot til the wheels are up!
3. Ack Running. if in a 1V1 you are not allowed to run to ACK. you must fight like a man and either live or die. if on the other hand you are in a 1 V 5 or more, you are now allowed to run like hell if you like.
4. Ganging, No more then 3V1 if you are the 4th fighter, you must pull off and go find something else to do.
5. running, once you've turn tailed and left the fighting field, even if being chased, you are not allowed to turn and go back after the guy chasing you. you must return to base and re-up.
6. alt monkey. you are not allowed to BNZ the other side from more then 2000 above said victim. you cannot loiter at 20k and then come blasting in on a guy at 8k. Not allowed, sorry!
7. interuptions. you are not allowed to interupt anyone engaged in a intimate conversation with a sheep. and no sheep-sharing!!
any thoughts??? this is just my 2 cents
Long Live Storch!!
LOL You must be kiddin' right?? Hey I think that's what DA is for.
MUGADAI of the MUNGADAI WARRIORS
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Wouldn't it be easier to just make one rule of no whining? :D
(Bad me!) ;)
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Originally posted by Arlo
Wouldn't it be easier to just make one rule of no whining? :D
(Bad me!) ;)
Actually thats the best suggestion I've heard yet!!
Long Live Storch!!
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Originally posted by captain1ma
Maybe we should set forth Rules of engagement In AVA.
While I agree with most of your rules (I think many will be opposed to #7), years of discussing this topic seem to end up at: stick by these principles yourself, to set a good example for others. There's no effective way to enforce any set of rules - even if everyone could agree on them - and criticizing people in the arena for "violating" rules they don't know about, don't understand or don't agree with simply drives people away. Over time, most people who stick around will start to fly this way, because these principles make for better and more enjoyable fights.
- oldman
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Originally posted by XAKL
LOL You must be kiddin' right?? Hey I think that's what DA is for.
MUGADAI of the MUNGADAI WARRIORS
Since you are new Ill let you in on a few things. Before this war thing there were some rules just like that in place.
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And if you wish to make the "DA" comparison, you should review TC's post and maybe visit the "DA".
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Even in the old AvA when we had rules that were accepted, many pilots simply ignored them since there was no real repercussions.
The rules were also abused. A pilot in a good 1v1 would say over 200 "bingo ammo" or the like, get you to disengage then come shoot you in the butt.
Or a guy would get in a disadvantage and then drop his gear and point towards the base because he was "landing".
Unfortunately...dweebs will be dweebs.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
While I agree with most of your rules (I think many will be opposed to #7), years of discussing this topic seem to end up at: stick by these principles yourself, to set a good example for others. There's no effective way to enforce any set of rules - even if everyone could agree on them - and criticizing people in the arena for "violating" rules they don't know about, don't understand or don't agree with simply drives people away. Over time, most people who stick around will start to fly this way, because these principles make for better and more enjoyable fights.
- oldman
while i had a hard time writing #7, i thought it was best.
rather then criticize, all one would have to do is point out to the new player/offender that said behavior is not allowed. this way its not criticizing.
to enforce this, first commanders would not encourage it, and if behavior continued, remove said offender from roster. that would get the point across.
anyone not flying with a squad would be refered to the rules of engagement .
Now to be honest, i have no problem breaking any of the above rules especially when we're getting clobbered, i would be willing to abide by them if everyone else did. i also think that most everyone else would be willing to do the same.
just something to think about.....
of course the whole sheep thing would have to be revisited.
Long Live Storch!!
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Originally posted by Larry
Since you are new Ill let you in on a few things. Before this war thing there were some rules just like that in place.
Did it work??
MUGADAI of the MUNGADAI WARRIORS
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Originally posted by WWM
And if you wish to make the "DA" comparison, you should review TC's post and maybe visit the "DA".
Who is TC? and what point have I missed about comparing to DA?
MUGADAI of the MUNGADAI WARRIORS
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Originally posted by XAKL
Did it work??
MUGADAI of the MUNGADAI WARRIORS
For the most part yes, but there are always going to be people who dont. Those were mainly MA dweebs coming in to pick and vulch.
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Originally posted by XAKL
Who is TC? and what point have I missed about comparing to DA?
MUGADAI of the MUNGADAI WARRIORS
TC is just another newbe that likes LA7s
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Plz correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the AvA was supposed to be more realistic?
I doubt very many WWII pilots would have had many qualms about doing any of these things.
If you don't want people to do these things, then develop tactics to counter them. That's the best deterrent possible.
Also, from the standpoint that this IS and only ever will be a GAME, and by definition is intended so that people can have fun, what's fun about limiting how you can play.
But seriously, if you really can't take being shot down before you've had a chance to get equal E, or get "fair/honourable" positions, you've probably played this game too much.
I don't mean to be offensive, but this game is only a simulation of real life, so there's not much point in any of these suggested measures.
Yossarian
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It was supposed to be a historical arena but for the last few years its been a place where you came to find a great fight. Back then people would ask first before diving into a 1v1. If you were out of ammo or fuel they would let you RTB. If you just got done fighting someone you would get time to build E before the guy watching your last fight would come fight you.
Since this war I have had less then five real fights. Iv had many people jump into my 1v1 and kill the enemy thinking he was helping me. Im one of the people that would rather have a great 1v1 and die then gang some hopeless guy fighting five others. Some smartass is going to say "goto the DA". I dare you to go to the DA and look for a good 1v1. I will bet then when fighting some guy is going to up from your field in a 163 or spit and join your fight.
This war has made more people come to the AvA but has made it into more of a MA. I wish we could have it back because now there are no arenas to fight a nice fight fast.
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OH boy,..ya know how many times Ive been HO'ed,ganged or shot while smoking,dead stick w/gear down at a base landing(ack shooting at my attacker)Not to mention times Ive had a good fight, ran out of ammo sent a "GF
" only to have the runtard turn and shoot me down...and dont get me started on the shoot down the C47 after troops have been dropped! Rules you say?War is war,the enemy will do what he has to..to get his "name in lights"..."so and so landed 100 kills in a XXXX plane." Do away with the kill buffer,Make it so you must survive and land (not ditch) to even get a K/D score or any score at all.Lets go from there.
:cry :D
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what a bunch of Rubbish
why don't we all join hands and sing kumbaya
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lol you talk about rules concerning good behavior in the AvA. Yet, you put "Long Live Storch!" at the bottom. That is very funny.
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If it is red, I'll shoot at it. On land, sea, in the air, landing, taking off, rearming, in the hanger, in the ack, AFK, head on, deflection, low/high 6, or in the damn
O'Club drinking a beer.
If you get in my crosshairs, shame on you. I will shoot at you.
I can't recall being extended the courtesy of a "fair" fight, so why should I do the same?
If I get in your crosshair, shame on me.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/Dog.jpg)
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Originally posted by Redlegs
lol you talk about rules concerning good behavior in the AvA. Yet, you put "Long Live Storch!" at the bottom. That is very funny.
Where do you see anything about good behavior?
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"I don`t think he`s supposed to do that"...Now where did I put my copy of the rules of engagement !.....OOps I`m dead...........
I`ve been on R&R for a while...The CT [sic] AVA has always been my avenue of choice since I was a rookie..(dang I feel like one again, I`m rusty and discombobulated)...and this discussion has been going even longer...nothing new there and I imagine it will continue down the path of obscurity as long as someone is willing to add their two cents worth into the pot...which is a good thing!.
Thats where good Ideas start from.......But one of the best I here by quote"
And I agree with OM....200%
Originally posted by Oldman731
stick by these principles yourself, to set a good example for others.
- oldman
Oh yeah...Don`t let Republic fool ya`ll..he looks pretty good in a Tutu and has been known to carry a tune!
Huskerines.......
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I think sarcasm is funny, yet often misunderstood.
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Originally posted by bcee
Oh yeah...Don`t let Republic fool ya`ll..he looks pretty good in a Tutu and has been known to carry a tune!
Huskerines.......
:rofl
to you sir, good to see you!
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Originally posted by 1redrum
what a bunch of Rubbish
why don't we all join hands and sing kumbaya
do you ever have anything positive to say??? i expected you to show up and have something negative to say. I guess i was right on the money. didnt your momma ever teach you that if you have nothing nice to say, keep your mouth shut?? guess not!
since you obviously cant read, the whole point of this thread was a suggestion. nothing more. a set of rules to make the game less gamey.
luckily you showed up to show us the errors of our ways, which is probably why most everyone new has your attitude.
hopefully you will never have any children that grow up to be as mean as you!!
as for my "Long Live Storch" signature, hes a great person and a great pilot. like all great people he does have a few flaws. my signature is my way of supporting him, thats all.
Long Live Storch!!
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Originally posted by 1redrum
why don't we join hands and sing kumbaya
I'm all for don't ask don't tell but man, how many times do I have to tell you, that's not the way I roll!
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Originally posted by captain1ma
as for my "Long Live Storch" signature, hes a great person and a great pilot. like all great people he does have a few flaws.
Lets just say he is as great a person as he is a great pilot :rofl
my signature is my way of supporting him, thats all.
In what? I'd love to send him a "I support you in your cause" card, but I would like to know what it is first :rofl
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Originally posted by dedalos
Lets just say he is as great a person as he is a great pilot :rofl
I didn't know you knew him personally Deadalot. It's a small world I suppose.
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Originally posted by republic
I didn't know you knew him personally Deadalot. It's a small world I suppose.
Are you saying he is a bad pilot? i meant it as a compliment. The last thing I expected was his squadies to come out and say that he sucks.
:rofl
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Goodness! Chivalry really is dead. It's much more honourable to get behind your enemy where he can't see you and shoot him in the back with no warning.:lol
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Originally posted by Grits
I think sarcasm is funny, yet often misunderstood.
I too find sarcasm funny however it doesn't always transfer well to the written word
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Truekill and Captain have hinted that there is a kinder more gentler AH community. The addition of the war aspect to AvA has increased the numbers of participants, but with the constant fight to prevent milking, the settings are so extreme that it takes a horde to accomplish a simple mission. :mad: Fix one problem, you get stuck with another set of problems.:rolleyes:
:aok Suggestion:
Increase icon range. The tiny dots on the screen are hardly any indication of strategic advantages or disadvantages. This current setting does not allow you to counter the previously mentioned tactics. Compared to any realism (don't know that we can - - the reason for icons in the first place) the human eye and trained brain would recognize and be able to identify the threat way before tiny dot becomes icon and range identified.
How many of you agree with me on this??? Fork you listening???? You usually are very good about that
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Originally posted by captain1ma
do you ever have anything positive to say??? i expected you to show up and have something negative to say. I guess i was right on the money. didnt your momma ever teach you that if you have nothing nice to say, keep your mouth shut?? guess not!
since you obviously cant read, the whole point of this thread was a suggestion. nothing more. a set of rules to make the game less gamey.
luckily you showed up to show us the errors of our ways, which is probably why most everyone new has your attitude.
hopefully you will never have any children that grow up to be as mean as you!!
as for my "Long Live Storch" signature, hes a great person and a great pilot. like all great people he does have a few flaws. my signature is my way of supporting him, thats all.
Long Live Storch!!
you are very funny :rofl
do you ever have anything positive to say
you must have selective visiondidn't your momma ever teach you that if you have nothing nice to say, keep your mouth shut??
did yours... guess not was a suggestion. nothing more.
mine too ...i like to sing
most everyone new has your attitude.
You haven't been around long enough to know me or my attitude
hopefully you will never have any children that grow up to be as mean as you!!
Breeding prolificly thank you ,and didn't i invite you to fly with my squad , to wing with me sometime,{in a effort to gain some common ground with you }you never responded , thats not just mean its rude
btw it wasn't ME who said about Storch being in your sig ,as a matter of fact i got ALOT of respect for him
Calm down ankle biter , and btw if you could handle flying with such a mean guy I will still wing with you ,and the invitation is still open
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Originally posted by republic
I'm all for don't ask don't tell but man, how many times do I have to tell you, that's not the way I roll!
lol,
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It is war, not the dueling arena; you should expect the enemy to use any advantage he has over you. That will include numbers, altitude, and vulching; except it, then counter it. You can bet that I'll take the shot if you give me one; I'm not concerned if your not looking or at a disadvantage. I'm not being mean here, but like I said second place don't count for much in a war.
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Originally posted by lutrel
It is war, not the dueling arena; you should expect the enemy to use any advantage he has over you. That will include numbers, altitude, and vulching; except it, then counter it. You can bet that I'll take the shot if you give me one; I'm not concerned if your not looking or at a disadvantage. I'm not being mean here, but like I said second place don't count for much in a war.
I am with you. War is war and it brought people in the arena. The goal was met. I don't see what all whining is about.
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unwritten rules are always the best way. going back to as far as I can remember the CT/AvA operated on what was essentially a gentleman's agreement. there was certain behavior that was frowned upon. the people who understood them never actually had to have them be explained because the rules just made sense to them, the logic of the stuff seemed natural. the people who did not abide by them refuse to understand them or are incapable of understanding them so no explanation was necessary in either case.
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Originally posted by justguess
unwritten rules are always the best way. going back to as far as I can remember the CT/AvA operated on what was essentially a gentleman's agreement. there was certain behavior that was frowned upon. the people who understood them never actually had to have them be explained because the rules just made sense to them, the logic of the stuff seemed natural. the people who did not abide by them refuse to understand them or are incapable of understanding them so no explanation was necessary in either case.
Okay I'll guess, hows the weather down there today?:aok
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warm and muggy kinda like my beer.
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Originally posted by justguess
warm and muggy kinda like my beer.
You'd think those guys in JG54 would pitch in and get you a cooler.
Cya in the AVA.:aok
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I'm guessing rules and preferences are two different things. My preference is for my opponent to use every tool within the legal parameters of the game to defeat me as I will try to do in return.
*ShruG*
Simple.
Now .... chivalry rules ... to me ... have always seemed a result of an inability to cope with frustration (as we're all probably prone to, at times). Heaven help me if I tell someone in this game they're playing unfair when they're playing the game precisely how it was designed to be played.
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Originally posted by Arlo
Now .... chivalry rules ... to me ... have always seemed a result of an inability to cope with frustration (as we're all probably prone to, at times). Heaven help me if I tell someone in this game they're playing unfair when they're playing the game precisely how it was designed to be played.
oh you guys are funny. Frustration? Stop by the DA and I am sure someone there will show you frustration. The opposite is happening. The inability of people to fight, their unwillingness to try and learn, the fact that they cannot accept that sometimes they will get shot down is what leads to posts like this.
all is fair in war. I ll do anything to shot him down (except learning how to fight), no chivalry, this is not the DA, team work, they HOed in real life, up from a dif base if vulched, bla bla bla bla.
The fact is, I don;t know of anyone that can put up a fight - win or lose - that has ever posted anything like that. Always some guy playing for 6 months or so, or someone that after 5 years can only manage to miss a HO before he goes down. Draw your own conclusions. :rofl I asked this before. Do you think playing basketball 2 vs 5 is fun because you can win? Do you talk smak afterwards too? :rofl
I responded to your post but it is not directed specifically to you
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Originally posted by dedalos
Frustration? Stop by the DA and I am sure someone there will show you frustration. The opposite is happening. The inability of people to fight, their unwillingness to try and learn, the fact that they cannot accept that sometimes they will get shot down is what leads to posts like this.
Talk about funny. What definition of frustration has a double standard in your book? You're frustrated you "don't get good fights." First off, I bet I could figure out how to get a "good fight" (enjoy the game) on anyone's terms (my own included) short of them logging the moment they see my icon. The other guy's style (or, if you prefer, lack of it) was never a legitimate reason for me to wet in public and be proud about it. I take care of my "class" ... he/she takes care of theirs. With or without the ch 200 mating calls thrown back and forth.
So .... you wanna claim that my unwillingness to try and learn lead up to this post? Work on yours. Learn me. Or don't. Get over it. Or don't. Frankly, Scarlett, you whine too much. You always have. If it makes you feel better ... shoot me down, eh? But whining about it between sorties will only waste your time. I'll be ignoring it and having fun, instead (anticipating my impending return and hardware tweekage/upgrade over the initial couple of tours). Even after you log in disgust. :D
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ah, an old school dust up. Pay attention nooblets.:D
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Originally posted by captain1ma
Maybe we should set forth Rules of engagement In AVA.
1. There never have been any, never will be.
Storch who?!?!?
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:D
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Originally posted by Arlo
Talk about funny. What definition of frustration has a double standard in your book? You're frustrated you "don't get good fights." First off, I bet I could figure out how to get a "good fight" (enjoy the game) on anyone's terms (my own included) short of them logging the moment they see my icon. The other guy's style (or, if you prefer, lack of it) was never a legitimate reason for me to wet in public and be proud about it. I take care of my "class" ... he/she takes care of theirs. With or without the ch 200 mating calls thrown back and forth.
So .... you wanna claim that my unwillingness to try and learn lead up to this post? Work on yours. Learn me. Or don't. Get over it. Or don't. Frankly, Scarlett, you whine too much. You always have. If it makes you feel better ... shoot me down, eh? But whining about it between sorties will only waste your time. I'll be ignoring it and having fun, instead (anticipating my impending return and hardware tweekage/upgrade over the initial couple of tours). Even after you log in disgust. :D
LMAO, now that needed saying.
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Yes there has slash you... you terd!!!
You know storch, that guy always killing you then making for of you for it.
:noid
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Originally posted by Larry
Yes there has slash you... you terd!!!
You know storch, that guy always killing you then making for of you for it.
:noid
Never any "Rules", it was more along the lines of a gentlemen's agrement. Which is why it did not work. Too many would break the "code" and give some of excuse of why it was ok to do so, and would wail like a banshee if it the favor was returned.
Storch take me 1 vs 1? :rofl
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I love, and dread, seeing Arlo's posts in here again.:rofl :aok
You still owe me a list of current AHii a/c we could use for the Spanish Civil war.;)
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The posts I miss. The singing? Not so much.:(
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Originally posted by Easyscor
I love, and dread, seeing Arlo's posts in here again.:rofl :aok
You still owe me a list of current AHii a/c we could use for the Spanish Civil war.;)
Don't get me started. Heh. :D
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Originally posted by Slash27
The posts I miss. The singing? Not so much.:(
I've been practicing:
Psycho ... by Puddle of Mudd
Maybe I'm the one ... maybe I'm the one who is the psytzophrenic psycho yeah ...
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You know I can mute you now?
:t
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Why not just turn it into a GV only arena? There is a group, now a minority, that like to GV without all the pesky planes bombing them you know.... Maybe there would be even more numbers then and there would be a new majority to tell the now majority to like it or leave. Would anyone, that is now actively enjoying the AvA, ever voice a complaint over that one?? ;)
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Originally posted by WWM
Why not just turn it into a GV only arena? There is a group, now a minority, that like to GV without all the pesky planes bombing them you know.... Maybe there would be even more numbers then and there would be a new majority to tell the now majority to like it or leave. Would anyone, that is now actively enjoying the AvA, ever voice a complaint over that one?? ;)
A sense of bizarre humor isn't necessarily a bad thing, eh? :D
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl @ these rulz. Surely you jest, as this is what most the Axis does to the Allies.
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Originally posted by WWM
Why not just turn it into a GV only arena? There is a group, now a minority, that like to GV without all the pesky planes bombing them you know.... Maybe there would be even more numbers then and there would be a new majority to tell the now majority to like it or leave. Would anyone, that is now actively enjoying the AvA, ever voice a complaint over that one?? ;)
:noid
I can envision hoardes of LTAR's now. Rubbing their hands (or whatever else it is they rub) together.
:noid
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Originally posted by Odee
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl @ these rulz. Surely you jest, as this is what most the Axis does to the Allies.
and the allieds do it all the time too. lets be fair. everyone does it!!
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Originally posted by Arlo
Talk about funny. What definition of frustration has a double standard in your book? You're frustrated you "don't get good fights." First off, I bet I could figure out how to get a "good fight" (enjoy the game) on anyone's terms (my own included) short of them logging the moment they see my icon. The other guy's style (or, if you prefer, lack of it) was never a legitimate reason for me to wet in public and be proud about it. I take care of my "class" ... he/she takes care of theirs. With or without the ch 200 mating calls thrown back and forth.
So .... you wanna claim that my unwillingness to try and learn lead up to this post? Work on yours. Learn me. Or don't. Get over it. Or don't. Frankly, Scarlett, you whine too much. You always have. If it makes you feel better ... shoot me down, eh? But whining about it between sorties will only waste your time. I'll be ignoring it and having fun, instead (anticipating my impending return and hardware tweekage/upgrade over the initial couple of tours). Even after you log in disgust. :D
Oh well, I said it was not directed specifically to you but you thought it did apply.
As I said, no one I know that can put up any kind of fight, is posting any of that BS. If you think that applies to you and only you, that is fine with me.
Shifty, who are you again?
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Ded has a valid point. Without fail it seems that those that advocate dweeb play are those that can't put up a good fight. But at the heart of it I believe it to be a chicken and egg thing. Does the inability to fight lead to the lame attitude or does the lame attitude lead to the inability to fight.
I've played long enough to witness several fresh nooblets develop into steely eyed killing machines. The thing they all seem to have in common is that they keep upping and head straight for the fight. They come right back at you despite being blown to digital bits. They value the fight over the kill or points. They don't like to gang, ho and receive no particular pleasure from defeating the clueless because to them only the hard won victory tastes sweet.
I've seen many players who become quite proficient at lame game play. The HO experts, the pick artists who are great shots and have become very proficient at exploiting even their own team mates to get cheap kills, the guy that can execute an extraordinarily accurate pork-auger run, and the ones that derive their self esteem from the accomplishments of the group. This leads me to believe that they are capable of developing real fighting skills but their luzer attitudes have lead them to develop luzer skills.
In conclusion, the ability doesn't create the attitude, the attitude creates the ability. The incessant arguments in the forums are really quite useless. The lame mindset is genetically ingrained and people do not change. Born a luzer always a luzer. If you knew these people outside of the game you would see that their personalities are quite consistent. These luzers are the ones that will seek wealth regardless of the means. They will be political back-stabbing do-nothing corporate types. They will be politicians, preachers, salesmen and assorted other forms of low life. They will be liberal minded whiners who think that they are owed a living and everything wrong in their life is someone else's fault. They will be the majority. And lastly they all seem to live in denial and share a profound lack of self awareness so, in short, they could be you........
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Those ROE sound harder than the real life ROE I've had to follow on missions.
If you're flying into a horde and don't have a good fight, why is this a surprise?
The last time I wanted a 'good fight' in the AvA (during the 'war'), I upped from a field with no red dots and flew to an enemy field and did lazy circles at the edge of their radar ring for a few minutes. 5 minutes later Kong1 showed up, and although I am the suxor in the jug, I had a fun fight nonetheless. Maybe not so fun for him, but hey, I did my best.
Either make it the 'dueling arena AvA' like before with 5 guys on and your ROE, or have a 'war AvA' and leave the artificial ROE at home.
I'm calling BS on this inability to find a 'good fight.' If I can do it, you regulars should be able to do so.
Just my .02.
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Originally posted by VonMessa
If it is red, I'll shoot at it. On land, sea, in the air, landing, taking off, rearming, in the hanger, in the ack, AFK, head on, deflection, low/high 6, or in the damn
O'Club drinking a beer.
If you get in my crosshairs, shame on you. I will shoot at you.
I can't recall being extended the courtesy of a "fair" fight, so why should I do the same?
If I get in your crosshair, shame on me.
(http://members.shaw.ca/alky/thumbs.jpg)
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Originally posted by toonces3
Those ROE sound harder than the real life ROE I've had to follow on missions.
If you're flying into a horde and don't have a good fight, why is this a surprise?
The last time I wanted a 'good fight' in the AvA (during the 'war'), I upped from a field with no red dots and flew to an enemy field and did lazy circles at the edge of their radar ring for a few minutes. 5 minutes later Kong1 showed up, and although I am the suxor in the jug, I had a fun fight nonetheless. Maybe not so fun for him, but hey, I did my best.
Either make it the 'dueling arena AvA' like before with 5 guys on and your ROE, or have a 'war AvA' and leave the artificial ROE at home.
I'm calling BS on this inability to find a 'good fight.' If I can do it, you regulars should be able to do so.
Just my .02.
So, in order to find a fight you had to fly away from people and wait/hope for a single con to come up. You don't see anything wrong with having to avoid people in order to find a fight? Why would it be too hard for the hord to send only 2 after you?
How many fights did you find anyway? Was there more or just that one?
I really can't read you toonces. You were there before the change and talked about good fights, even though you could usually be found at 15K diving on some one and refusing to engage if you did not have alt advantage. And I mean, actually typing that on 200. Now you are there after the change probably doing the same? Witch one do you prefer?
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Originally posted by KONG1
Ded has a valid point. Without fail it seems that those that advocate dweeb play are those that can't put up a good fight. But at the heart of it I believe it to be a chicken and egg thing. Does the inability to fight lead to the lame attitude or does the lame attitude lead to the inability to fight.
I've played long enough to witness several fresh nooblets develop into steely eyed killing machines. The thing they all seem to have in common is that they keep upping and head straight for the fight. They come right back at you despite being blown to digital bits. They value the fight over the kill or points. They don't like to gang, ho and receive no particular pleasure from defeating the clueless because to them only the hard won victory tastes sweet.
I've seen many players who become quite proficient at lame game play. The HO experts, the pick artists who are great shots and have become very proficient at exploiting even their own team mates to get cheap kills, the guy that can execute an extraordinarily accurate pork-auger run, and the ones that derive their self esteem from the accomplishments of the group. This leads me to believe that they are capable of developing real fighting skills but their luzer attitudes have lead them to develop luzer skills.
In conclusion, the ability doesn't create the attitude, the attitude creates the ability. The incessant arguments in the forums are really quite useless. The lame mindset is genetically ingrained and people do not change. Born a luzer always a luzer. If you knew these people outside of the game you would see that their personalities are quite consistent. These luzers are the ones that will seek wealth regardless of the means. They will be political back-stabbing do-nothing corporate types. They will be politicians, preachers, salesmen and assorted other forms of low life. They will be liberal minded whiners who think that they are owed a living and everything wrong in their life is someone else's fault. They will be the majority. And lastly they all seem to live in denial and share a profound lack of self awareness so, in short, they could be you........
What he said :aok
Not to mention that I had people on their 3rd or 4th week hand me my arse in the DA. It is really not that hard but you do have to try a couple of times.
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Originally posted by toonces3
I'm calling BS on this inability to find a 'good fight.' If I can do it, you regulars should be able to do so.
You found your good fight by avoiding the main fight, and by being fortunate enough to encounter Kong who, for all his contrariness on these boards, generally sticks to the principles that started this thread out. I'll bet he didn't HO you, probably didn't lead you into ack, nor call his friends to come give him a hand, nor run away from you. And you had a great time with a memorable fight.
- oldman
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You're kidding me, right Ded?
Check my scores in the AvA. Ok, I know you're not going to do that so I'll save you the trouble and make my point. My K/D in AvA is about 0.3. Heck maybe less. Part of that is because most of the folks in the AvA are better than me. Most of that is that I will engage in any fight in there regardless of advantage or disadvantage.
As many times as you and I have fought against each other, and together, in the AvA, I'm surprised you would say something like that. How many times have I fought you in there, in any plane, without regard to advantage?
Anyway, that's besides the point.
MY point is this: if I want to fight one v one, it's not that hard to do. When there were 5 guys on (the 'old' days) it was very easy to find a 1v1 or 2v2 and to stay out of another guy's good fight.
With 40 guys on, it's much harder to wander into the horde and figure out who's having a 'good fight' or furballing or whether that 109 I just merged with was my first merge or second merge, or whether that shot against the maneuvering con is a HO or a front quarter shot while I'm avoiding the two guys on my 6.
I logged on, saw where the 'war' was going on, and lifted at the bottom of the map where nobody was. Tooled over to an enemy base and hung out at 9k figuring sooner or later someone would come over to fight.
Last night I flew an F4U over to where a few dots were and had a good fight with Storch. It wasn't that hard to do. Heck he even told me what color plane he had so I could find him in the mix.
If you want the 'old' AvA then having gentlemen's fights is fine. If you're going to have a 'war' AvA then I say to hell with the rules and bring it on.
I don't think a gentlemen's rule set and the 'war' setup are compatible with each other.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
You found your good fight by avoiding the main fight, and by being fortunate enough to encounter Kong who, for all his contrariness on these boards, generally sticks to the principles that started this thread out. I'll bet he didn't HO you, probably didn't lead you into ack, nor call his friends to come give him a hand, nor run away from you. And you had a great time with a memorable fight.
- oldman
Everything you just said is true, and is my point.
I didn't fly into the main fight to find this fight, and I wouldn't have expected to.
You guys have seen me in there enough times. I'll conform to however you guys want people to play in there, but I think you're beating your head against a brick wall trying to enforce (or even suggest) a code of conduct while at the same time encouraging a capture type war system.
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Originally posted by captain1ma
and the allieds do it all the time too. lets be fair. everyone does it!!
I can only report what I see first hand sir. However, I'm sure you are correct that both sides do it plenty. In fact, I'm going to start doing my share this coming rounds.
As another player said: If it's red and in my sites, BANG! If I happen to stray into the red's sites, then shame on me.
or something to that effect.
:noid
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If Im not shooting, I will be climbing.
If you don't want HO'd then point your nose away from me.
Dont take off from a capped field, and you wont get voulched.
If your bingo, You should have planned better.
I wont let you land your kills. Get a better wing man.
If you want to be alone with your sheep, Hide where I cant find ya.
BUK
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And they have spoken! Now all you old AvA vets GET OUT if you don't like it!
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Originally posted by WWM
And they have spoken! Now all you old AvA vets GET OUT if you don't like it!
Well the chest thumping has ended, and the ankle humping begins.:rolleyes:
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na..I'm just amazed at the number of posts I see, as the one above my last, from people who have came here and successfully changed an arena that several good friends once enjoyed for years without any consideration. Kick'em while there down.
I have gained enough respect for TC and Dedalos alone from their help, friendship, and good fights that I would consider closeing my account if the AvA would go back to tradition. I've always got a when they kill me and they would PM me to talk about the last engagement in a if I screwed up. That makes an impression on new guys and eventually makes for a good adversary.
I asked for two bases, in a thread, on the edge of the map to be made uncaptureable and set aside for the old AvA guys to have some fun times. What would two bases hurt the new arena? No responce from staff thus far...
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Originally posted by WWM
I asked for two bases, in a thread, on the edge of the map to be made uncaptureable and set aside for the old AvA guys to have some fun times. What would two bases hurt the new arena? No responce from staff thus far...
Wouldn't hurt a thing:aok
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Ive got respect for your suggestion. But I thought the AvA was supposed to be more of the Historical War sim. Which is why I think it is cool. But I dont know about the whole fight fair thing. Its supposed to be a war sim. What I read in the ole dusty books at the library dosent say anything about letting an enemy land after he is out of ammo or low on fuel. Or coming in at the enemy's alt and fighting his fight. Especially with us poor allied pilots facing the awesome turn fighters you guys are buzzing around in. And alot of you Axis guys are good. Im def not as experienced as alot of you and if the Hellcat could beat a zeke in a low turn fight im probably not the guy thats gonna make it happen. Anyway im gonna continue to us the Hellcats strengths in the AvA and scream for help when a KI or Zeke catches me slow or sneaks up on me. And if im in a good 1v1 and a friendly pops up and smokes you. Well your dead and thats kinda the point. I like team work and enjoy the way I play. Im sure somebody will get fired up about it but its cool.
to all you ditry axis pilots (just in character)
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Game acb say it with me... G A M E. Some of us like the old "fair fight" way it was alot more fun and you didnt have to worry about someone poping you in the face when you are already in a 1v1. You want historcal try the SEA, because thats more historical then this war.
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Originally posted by ACB
Its supposed to be a war sim.
Well Mr Shade when you have one life it will be a "war sim" until then it's a flying game.
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Originally posted by KONG1
Well Mr Shade when you have one life it will be a "war sim" until then it's a flying game.
Think mr. shade is mr. oACBo.
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Originally posted by WWM
I asked for two bases, in a thread, on the edge of the map to be made uncaptureable and set aside for the old AvA guys to have some fun times. What would two bases hurt the new arena? No responce from staff thus far...
So how about it staff?
Could you implement it into the next map change and give it a try. Maybe park CV off one of the bases also for the extra planes that are not available on land bases. Not sure if you can make one CV undestructable though in case it got midnight porked on accident by a newcomer.
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yup its a game and people are gonna play it how they want and have fun. Yeah Mr. Shade is oACBo. And i guess if you want a good 1v1 go to the ....DA maybe? Or did someone already say that? But i guess im way outta line making that suggestion. I obviously dont get it. I thought it was a "game" of a war sim with Axis Vs. Allies aircraft fighting a battle against each other. Not an arena dedicated to a bunch of 1v1 fights. But it is a game so I guess you can play the way you want and everybody else will HO, pick and vulch.
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Originally posted by ACB
I obviously dont get it. .
Thats a good idea. Someone said the DA BS already and was told why DA isnt a good place. The AvA is far from historical now. For the past five years maybe the CT/AvA has been dedicated to historical setups where you could find great fights in historical planes. With the CT regulars/vets flying by a kind of code. Most of us didnt care if we came out the winner if it was a good fight. But now with this war a flood of MA types have been playing in there only careing about tollsheading/killing. In the past vulching/picking/HOing are rare and mostly done but people in there for the first time. Now you cant fly five minutes without geting one of those, but thats what happens when you invite people from the MA into any arena. Skill level goes down and dweebery goes up 10 fold.
But what do I know Iv only logged more hours in the CT/AvA in the past seven years then most people log in the MA.
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See we are having a problem of old AvA and New AvA.
The Vet guys want the Old AvA set up back..
But the new guys who are adding players to the AvA want the new...
If neither side can work, then one side is gonna have to fold.........
Old AvA comes back, super low numbers, but close net group
New AvA starts up, its just another MA but with limited plane sets.
I suggest these two groups work together and help each other otherwise HiTech might as well just dump AvA all together!!
Im a MA player, always have been, but i love the AvA set up and strongly support the rules of engagement. No hoeing, unless absolutely necessary "example, being outnumbered 3+ to 1", stay out of a fight unless called in a fight stays 1v1. To the Vets, its a new thing many of us squads do, especially mine, team work!!! We dont fight as individual pilots, we fly as an entire force! No milk running!! No Ack running!! I suggest we start to work together, or go our separate ways and go back to the way it was a year ago.........
But this is just my 2 cents.....
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Originally posted by EagleEyes
Vets, its a new thing many of us squads do, especially mine, team work!!! We dont fight as individual pilots, we fly as an entire force!
SEA/FSO/MA? If it was up to me I would spilt the arenas. Old "AvA" and "War Arena". I dont like this war thing I deal with it because its the only arena where I can find a fight agenst something other then a LA7 or Spit16. I hope after a few more "same ol wars" the hype dies down and people start leaving. I never saw a problem with low numbers, but then again I like the idea of quality not quantity.
Most of the large squads that I fought in here since the war started couldnt fight thier way outa a paper bag without thier squadies there to help out. You get them 1,2, or even 3 on one and they have no effing clue what to do so they run to thier ack or buddies. One thing we try to teach in JG54 is to handle a fight yourself because theres not always going to be a wingman there to help you. I guess people feel safer when flying in the horde. Thats something Ill never understand.
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You guys chose to fly as single fighter units, as for my guys, ive taught them to fly with a wingman.
Your a great pilot, theres no doubt about that. No one can disagree with that. But when we have to face you or other guys who are beyond our ability, we use tactics to defeat you. Just like they did in the war. And i know youll start talking about hoeing and cherry picking and what not. Which we dont. We use REAL WWII tactics!!
I have nothing but the utmost respect for you TK, you are a true great pilot and a wonderful person. We may not agree on everything. But i do respect you and your opinion. Your what i consider an "old stick". Someone whos been around for a long time and knows the game inside and out.
However, now days there are more new guys then us old sticks. I believe its up to us to mold these guys into what we want them to be.
Yes my guys are an MA squad. So we fight as a unit or "horde" as you call it. But thats what makes us a great squad. When you find one Tomcatter, more wont be far behind. Thats my belief and i will continue to practice these tactics.
Then again, in the last war, the only guy i ever fought 1v1 was Storch and only because we chose a place and alt to fight. I fought you many times and you were always mixed in with other guys, cleaning the tails of countrymen. If you were a true 1 v 1 guy, you wouldnt join in the "axis horde" and smash bases. If you dont like the War, then why be the CO for the axis? Why have leader who doesnt even want or like what is going on?? For me, its something i just dont understand. I dont wanna call you a hypocrite or anything, but sometimes thats what i see, and not only from you..... Especially about hordes and milk running.....
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Originally posted by WWM
So how about it staff?
Could you implement it into the next map change and give it a try. Maybe park CV off one of the bases also for the extra planes that are not available on land bases. Not sure if you can make one CV undestructable though in case it got midnight porked on accident by a newcomer.
It would not work Ww. It would actually create a bigger problem since these guys would consider you a waste of resources and they would come over there to put an end to your game play so they can force theirs on you.
Backrub, Odee, etc. are perfect examples of what I am talking about. Send me your email if you want to see some comedy of flying. The best I ve seen Odee do is a 10 second fight since his friend had to die first. As I said, no one that thinks he can fight, posts and of the BS they do.
Whats funny is, WwM could take on anyone in this thread since his second week in the game. I guess some people can and some can't (look at Kongs post for further explanation, lol)
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Originally posted by WWM
I asked for two bases, in a thread, on the edge of the map to be made uncaptureable and set aside for the old AvA guys to have some fun times. What would two bases hurt the new arena? No responce from staff thus far...
No.
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Thank you for a reply Slash.
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Guys, please stop ripping each other apart, otherwise we will be having the same problems with "chest thumping" as we did with the last war!!
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Originally posted by WWM
Thank you for a reply Slash.
We cant make certain bases uncaptureable. Its a all or nothing type of thing.
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Oh..didn't know that since the MA maps have bases that are uncaptureable.....unless I am mistaken. I thought the ones with red boxes around them were that way. Again, thanks for responding anyway.
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Originally posted by Bukrub
If Im not shooting, I will be climbing.
If you don't want HO'd then point your nose away from me.
Dont take off from a capped field, and you wont get voulched.
If your bingo, You should have planned better.
I wont let you land your kills. Get a better wing man.
If you want to be alone with your sheep, Hide where I cant find ya.
BUK
Originally posted by WWM
And they have spoken! Now all you old AvA vets GET OUT if you don't like it!
Originally posted by ACB
But I thought the AvA was supposed to be more of the Historical War sim. Which is why I think it is cool. But I dont know about the whole fight fair thing. Its supposed to be a war sim. What I read in the ole dusty books at the library dosent say anything about letting an enemy land after he is out of ammo or low on fuel. Or coming in at the enemy's alt and fighting his fight. ... And if im in a good 1v1 and a friendly pops up and smokes you. Well your dead and thats kinda the point. I like team work and enjoy the way I play.
THANK YOU for saying what I've been trying to say for a while!!! (especially WWM)
Anyway, I just think this whole "online community" stuff (I refrain from saying 'BS' because it exists) is rather pathetic . It just seems like a load of people wasting their lives, and running away from reality.
The above does NOT apply to all the 'old-timers'
Yossarian
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Originally posted by Yossarian
*Charlie Brown Teacher* Wa wa wawa wa wa
Arrogance and stupidity all in one package...how efficient of you.
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Originally posted by KONG1
They will be politicians
I'll agree with most of what you said...but I didn't realize that all of Congress logged into the MA and now the AvA. :rofl
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rules, we don't need no stinking rules!!!