Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Tango on February 22, 2008, 04:45:17 PM
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331989,00.html
I'd like to know who says we need them. Four kids lost thier lives to another criminal that snuck across the border.
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You are just an idiot.
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So, we need them just because you say I'm an idiot?
Guess that means we don't need them since all they do is commit crimes. Those 4 kids lost there lives because of people that think we need them here and refuse to do anything to stop them.
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Those 4 kids lost there lives because of people that think we need them here and refuse to do anything to stop them.
I tend to agree with that.
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I ask this question in every thread that has pro-illegal supporters. I've yet to get any answer.
Castedo, if we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do, who was doing these jobs before the illegals started coming over enmasse?
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Please do not turn the deaths of helpless kids into a political rant.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
I ask this question in every thread that has pro-illegal supporters. I've yet to get any answer.
Castedo, if we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do, who was doing these jobs before the illegals started coming over enmasse?
machines and teens, most likely.
labours a lot cheaper than a machine...especially when it doesnt know enough to demand a fair wage.
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Just because some are bad don't mean they all are. granted they are here illegally of course. You want to start picking the oranges and planting the feilds doing the laundry at hotels .. be my guest..
SteveBailey Americans were doing those jobs back when labor paid $2.75 an hour. How many Americans are going to pick fruit all day in the sun for even $10/ hour? I think the illegals get about 7 to do it.
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Originally posted by crockett
Just because some are bad don't mean they all are. granted they are here illegally of course. You want to start picking the oranges and planting the feilds doing the laundry at hotels .. be my guest..
SteveBailey Americans were doing those jobs back when labor paid $2.75 an hour. How many Americans are going to pick fruit all day in the sun for even $10/ hour? I think the illegals get about 7 to do it.
i dunno, how many americans are on welfare that dont have a major physical disability?
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Originally posted by vorticon
i dunno, how many americans are on welfare that dont have a major physical disability?
And what makes you think they would do the job even if they could? Better yet.. take the stay at home mom and make her work the fields for $400 a week to get her off welfare.. (supposedly anyway) Then have her put her 3 kids in govt funded child care that cost the state $600/week.
makes sense.. :rofl
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Originally posted by crockett
Just because some are bad don't mean they all are. granted they are here illegally of course. You want to start picking the oranges and planting the feilds doing the laundry at hotels .. be my guest..
SteveBailey Americans were doing those jobs back when labor paid $2.75 an hour. How many Americans are going to pick fruit all day in the sun for even $10/ hour? I think the illegals get about 7 to do it.
Nice try, straw man. Every time they've raided a factory and cleaned out illegals, the local population had plenty of people to fill the job vacancies.
There were plenty of people for these jobs before the illegals came, and there is plenty of people for these jobs now.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Nice try, straw man. Every time they've raided a factory and cleaned out illegals, the local population had plenty of people to fill the job vacancies.
There were plenty of people for these jobs before the illegals came, and there is plenty of people for these jobs now.
So you are comparing 1 factory to every illegal in the country.. Yea that makes a lot of sense. Maybe you should be the one looking for your brain..
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"Every" sounds like more than one occasion Crockett. And illegals need to get lost. Let the millions of legal immigrants already waiting in line for years fill the vacuum they leave behind. Them and the americans already there can replace the illegals' jobs.
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Originally posted by crockett
So you are comparing 1 factory to every illegal in the country.. Yea that makes a lot of sense. Maybe you should be the one looking for your brain..
I understand. Beyond insults, you have absolutely no point whatsoever.
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Tango, I'd say that this incident shows we don't need reckless drivers who run stop signs. I'm just as much against citizens who do that as I am illegals that do.
IMO you are adding 2 + 2 and saying it = 5.
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This just in from the higher-ups. From now on the word 'illegal' will no longer be 'illegal' but 'uninvited'. Seems that the higher-ups are concerned that the word has no more meaning and has become obsolete and meaningless to a certain political party. So, from now on the term 'uninvited' will be used instead of 'illegal' in any newscast, editorial, documentary, or anytime you need to use the term in regards to someone or some people who came here illegally...err, uninvited.
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Originally posted by culero
Tango, I'd say that this incident shows we don't need reckless drivers who run stop signs. I'm just as much against citizens who do that as I am illegals that do.
IMO you are adding 2 + 2 and saying it = 5.
The point I'm making if the current laws were being enforced those kids would still be alive. I hope she gets the max penalty in prison for what she did, but the Mexican government will probably come in and get her out.
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why would the mexican gov't do that? how would it be able to accomplish that?
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Nice try, straw man. Every time they've raided a factory and cleaned out illegals, the local population had plenty of people to fill the job vacancies.
There were plenty of people for these jobs before the illegals came, and there is plenty of people for these jobs now.
My brother [hes an ICE agent] was involved in a raid on a chicken processing plant in Arkansas a couple of years ago. They rounded up several dozen illegals and as they were taking them out of the plant the American workers started cheering. The reason why? They said they were severly underpaid and anytime they asked for a raise the management would simply tell them if they didn't like it they would replace them with more mexicans.
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Originally posted by justguess
why would the mexican gov't do that? how would it be able to accomplish that?
The Mexican gov always gets involved when one of thier citizens makes the national news. It gives "illegals" a bad name. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Tango
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331989,00.html
I'd like to know who says we need them. Four kids lost thier lives to another criminal that snuck across the border.
An idiot, legal or not, from anywhere can be responsible for this type of tragedy.
As to the other question, who says we need them? Corrupt politicians (Democrat and Republican) serving the interests of the special interest masters who own them, business owners who want cheap labor and plain citizens who feel sorry for them and listen to the propaganda from the preceeding two groups and their proxies.
It's an overused myth that illegal immigrants take only the jobs that citizens won't do. When the demand for workers exceeds the supply wages for that particular workforce rise. Businesses that employ illegals simply want to circumvent that. Illegals are much easier to underpay and abuse than any other group.
We've had legal immigrant workers in this country for decades. Why is it that employing legal immigrants no longer works?
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I have no remorse for any illegal immigrant here, that gets the boot.
But since we're talking about mexicans, i don't understand why people defend them. To say, we'll yeah they are here illegally, but they work hard, is like saying, well yeah he's a murderer but he works hard.
Bottom line is that they don't belong here. No spins, or twisting of words. It's against the law for them to be in this country.
If we got rid of all of them, like we're supposed to, then the whole idea of "i'd rather have them then some americans" wouldn't even be an option.
On a side note, if any of you have young adult children that are thinking of going down there to party or whatever, send them this link.
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=5733
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Originally posted by vorticon
labours a lot cheaper than a machine
not true.
also,everyone failed to mention she was sober.
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Originally posted by crockett
How many Americans are going to pick fruit all day in the sun for even $10/ hour?
Thousands upon thousands upon thousands.
I know it`s unheard of these days with the young, but there is nothing wrong with actually working for a living.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
This just in from the higher-ups. From now on the word 'illegal' will no longer be 'illegal' but 'uninvited'. Seems that the higher-ups are concerned that the word has no more meaning and has become obsolete and meaningless to a certain political party. So, from now on the term 'uninvited' will be used instead of 'illegal' in any newscast, editorial, documentary, or anytime you need to use the term in regards to someone or some people who came here illegally...err, uninvited.
Actually the term is "undocumented migrants"
That will probably be replaced by "super terrific guests"
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If you have the time, watch these links from Penn and Teller's Bullchit. Always liked this episode.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=r9ffO9mLlEo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UnBN0trSE3c&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8y13DzxfrjY&feature=related
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Originally posted by Tango
So, we need them just because you say I'm an idiot?
Guess that means we don't need them since all they do is commit crimes. Those 4 kids lost there lives because of people that think we need them here and refuse to do anything to stop them.
The point is; it was an acident, the fact that had documents, was ilegal, was born somewhere is a detail. The kind of cause effect you made is of an idiot.
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Originally posted by Tango
My brother [hes an ICE agent] was involved in a raid on a chicken processing plant in Arkansas a couple of years ago. They rounded up several dozen illegals and as they were taking them out of the plant the American workers started cheering. The reason why? They said they were severly underpaid and anytime they asked for a raise the management would simply tell them if they didn't like it they would replace them with more mexicans.
And now we get to the real evil involved - US citizens who knowingly employ illegals.
Everyone can probably tell from the tone of my posts that I sympathize with Mexican laborers. That's because I live on the border, where Mexico is as much a part of my local community as is Texas. Mexicans to me aren't, as they are for most of you, a group of brown boogeymen who are here to steal our jobs. They are decent hard-working folks who befriend me when I visit their country, and who come here to earn a living for their families. They are neighbors that I like and want in my community.
OTOH I want them to be here legally as much as anyone else that posts here. I am against them being here illegally. Read the last paragraph, and then read this again. I don't want illegals here.
Example: I hire/fire people and contract services for the company I work for (I'm responsible for about 150 people). I just turned a really nice guy down yesterday because he doesn't have documentation - i.e., he's illegal. I'd really like to contract him, he's just what I need for the area I'm trying to fill. I was ready, already had a contract filled out. But, when he couldn't produce a Social Security card or a Federal taxpayer ID, I ran his bellybutton off.
Here's the thing - I do the right thing. If every employer did, we wouldn't have the illegals here. They'd go home.
Tango, you say the kids would be alive if this illegal wasn't here. You're right.
But, here's what I want you to see - those kids are dead because a reckless driver killed them. Citizens are as likely to be reckless drivers as illegals.
The point is, this reckless driver was here because a citizen, a legal member of the dead kids' community, hires illegal immigrants and one of them was a reckless driver.
Myself, I resent my fellow citizen more for his part in this than some poor working person who's trying to scratch out a living. This citizen is shirking their civic responsibility in order to enrich themselves. The illegals should be sent home, yes, but the citizen who hires them should be castrated. IMHnsO.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
I understand. Beyond insults, you have absolutely no point whatsoever.
So what was the "straw man" comment about that wasn't an insualt?
Truth is politicians don't give a crap about illegals and they never will.. They know the truth that business in this country depends on them.
They will give you lip service about how they are tough on illegal immigration all day long.. However at the end of the day what do they ever actually do? Why do you think that is? Could it be they know our economy depends on cheap products?
The illegal immigration problem is simple "if" they wanted to do something about it. You start charging businesses whom hire illegals $5k to $10k fines for every illegal they get caught hiring.. Well then things would change real fast.
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Originally posted by Castedo
The point is; it was an acident, the fact that had documents, was ilegal, was born somewhere is a detail. The kind of cause effect you made is of an idiot.
I think your missing the point Castedo. The POINT is that she was here illegally. If she was not here there would be no accident.
Was it an accident that she snuck across the border illegally?
Was it an accident that she aquired papers to create an alias?
In this sad story, the fact is that an illegal mexican was responsible for the death of 4 American citizens.
To call someone an idiot for stating the facts, because you somehow want the facts to be different is wrong.
Truth is politicians don't give a crap about illegals and they never will.. They know the truth that business in this country depends on them.
Have you spoken to, or looked up the voting records of every single politician in every single state, in every single city in the country? Who's truth are you speaking of.
Have you written any letters to your states representatives to ask what they're doing about it? After all they are supposed to represent you, aren't they?
So from my perspective, what you're saying is your opinion, and that's it.
There are a couple of states that are holding business owners responsible, and in those states, the illegal immigrant problem has haulted. Look it up.
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arizona law,
title 23-labor
chapter 2
article 2
23-212
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/23/00212.htm&Title=23&DocType=ARS
there is an answer.
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There is a simple way to stop the criminals.. both the ones who cross illegally and the criminals who hire them.
and.. as moot says.. there are millions of good, talented people waiting to become legal citizens.
as for picking fruit? are you guys really that young that you think illegals were the only way it was ever done? the brasero program bussed brasero workers.. only workers.. no kids. and the farmers put them up on the land.. no schools no nothing.. they were housed and fed by the farmer and at the end of a few months season they were bussed back with a big fat paycheck.
My girfriend is a legal citizen of mexican decent. she hates illegals.. she flys an American flag.. she curses people who fly a mexican one here.
If you are sympathetic to illegals.. she, and her friends and family think you are an idiot and unamerican.
lazs
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Originally posted by Regular
Please do not turn the deaths of helpless kids into a political rant.
What makes this thread so special?
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Here in Mass a 70 year old was run down by a brazilin illegal, whom fled the scene because that’s right she was illegal. They have caught her since, yet to see if she will be deported. But I'm sure Kennedy and the ACLU will defend her "rights"
P.S. Our Boston city council voted on a statement stating that illegal have a "right" to sneak into the US.
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Dont know how its been wroking in those fruit picking areas. But if you ask businesses up here who hire illegals. Most of them will tell you that the days of them working "cheap" are long gone.
"Cheaper" Yes. but only slightly
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This came out of texas, Courpus Christi
(http://[IMG]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj311/therealJBA/untitled.jpg)[/IMG]
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Originally posted by crockett
So what was the "straw man" comment about that wasn't an insualt?
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Straw man isn't an insult crockett, it refers to "straw man argument"
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Originally posted by cav58d
If you have the time, watch these links from Penn and Teller's Bullchit. Always liked this episode.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=r9ffO9mLlEo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UnBN0trSE3c&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8y13DzxfrjY&feature=related
/THREAD
***** brilliant :aok
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Straw man isn't an insult crockett, it refers to "straw man argument"
Well I thought you were referring to the "straw man" from Alice in Wonderland.. hence the brain commit. :t
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that is not Alice in Wonderland, it is Wizard of Oz.
(kids today are sooo dumb).
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Originally posted by crockett
Well I thought you were referring to the "straw man" from Alice in Wonderland.. hence the brain commit. :t
Ahahahaha! Well that went from insulting to funny. :aok
Sings: If I only had a brain!
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Ahahahaha! Well that went from insulting to funny. :aok
Sings: If I only had a brain!
lol yea that's why I came up with that comment I thought I was being witty. :D
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Originally posted by crockett
Just because some are bad don't mean they all are. granted they are here illegally of course. You want to start picking the oranges and planting the feilds doing the laundry at hotels .. be my guest..
SteveBailey Americans were doing those jobs back when labor paid $2.75 an hour. How many Americans are going to pick fruit all day in the sun for even $10/ hour? I think the illegals get about 7 to do it.
There have been machines designed to pick grapes, cherries, and all other sorts of fruit. It wouldn't be impossible to design a machine to pick oranges.
Besides, poor people don't live very good lives. You think we are doing Mexicans a favor by paying them minimum wages and having them live in our slums where our own anti-socials lurk?
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
There have been machines designed to pick grapes, cherries, and all other sorts of fruit. It wouldn't be impossible to design a machine to pick oranges.
Besides, poor people don't live very good lives. You think we are doing Mexicans a favor by paying them minimum wages and having them live in our slums where our own anti-socials lurk?
It seems they go through hell to get here, to have that opportunity to work at minimum wage and live in our slums. You should go buy this month's issue of National Geographic. There is a article where they followed some illegals and what they go through to get here.
Oh and btw the bulk of them aren't just Mexicans there are just as many Guatemalans, Hondurans and Salvadorans.
btw did you watch the vids cav58d posted?
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maybe National Geographic should do a article on what legal immigrants go through to live in the USA.
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Originally posted by crockett
It seems they go through hell to get here, to have that opportunity to work at minimum wage and live in our slums. You should go buy this month's issue of National Geographic. There is a article where they followed some illegals and what they go through to get here.
And so do the members of terrorists cells from around the globe. The smugglers. The thousands and thousands of gang members who are here illegaly. Not to work. Not to make lives for themselves. Only to rob, steal, kill, disrupt our economy and totaly destroy a way of life for those who are citizens of this country.
Damn sure no sympathy from this end I can guarantee you.
Oh and btw the bulk of them aren't just Mexicans there are just as many Guatemalans, Hondurans and Salvadorans.
And many more countries. Here illegaly . That`s the key.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
And many more countries. Here illegaly . That`s the key.
yet what do you think we can do about it? Build a 50 ft wall? They will break through it climb over it, dig under it or go around it.
So what is the answer? Turn our country into East Germany before the wall came down? Into a police state? No one comes in or goes out?
Na I think if we had any brains we would spend money helping the south and central American counties build better economies. Why do they come here? Why because they want jobs.
So why not instead of shipping off our our outsourced production to China why not send it south of the boarder? Why not invest in these countries and kill two birds with one stone?
That seems like common sense move to me, unfortunately no one in our govt seems to have any.
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Originally posted by crockett
yet what do you think we can do about it? Build a 50 ft wall? They will break through it climb over it, dig under it or go around it.
So what is the answer? Turn our country into East Germany before the wall came down? Into a police state? No one comes in or goes out?
Although I believe in the present situation we have to take more precautions as to who enters and who does not due to terrorist threats, etc., this can be handled mostly by getting the funds to the right agencies for staffing and getting those already in place to actually get off their rears and do what the job calls for.
The illegals here who are actually working is not a big problem to solve. Enforce the laws that exist and nail those who hire them.
Na I think if we had any brains we would spend money helping the south and central American counties build better economies. Why do they come here? Why because they want jobs.
Thousands upon thousands come here with no intention of working. A lot come here as illegals, stockpile cash and either send or return with it.
We stop the idiocy of having our country overran with illegals and stop the wrecking of our economy and system by them, then we can help a lot of people. The main and most important part of this is we can help OUR country and OUR citizens.
So why not instead of shipping off our our outsourced production to China why not send it south of the boarder? Why not invest in these countries and kill two birds with one stone?
Why not quit allowing monopolies to decide what goes and what don`t go in our country and what, when , who and how much it is costing?
Why not put the U.S. way of life back in the U.S.?
Why not show the support and put back in place the very backbone and tradition of the U.S. such as the family farms that were forced out by the big monopolies.....the Mom and Pop`s.........the family businesses........the small businesses?
The American dream..............where did that go?
unfortunately no one in our govt seems to have any.
I agree totally on that point. The only problem with that is, it seems a great many people in our country have forgotten who and what the government is supposed to be. (By the people for the people)
Most seem to speak the term government as if it were an allmighty entity of it`s own.
It will stay that way until the people, you and me, have had enough and stand to F up.