Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: BlackJack on February 25, 2008, 01:34:31 PM
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Ok in world war 2 I don't think the people inside planes actually thought about shooting someone while on fire or cock pit smoked. How about while its on fire first you black out and come back and if ur not landed or bailed you get pilot wound from burns,and/or lose controls and can't fly it. Because I don't like the fact some planes can shoot down 2 more before wing breaks off. It would be much more realistic, because again I don't think you'd be thinking about dogfighting when on fire.
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I agree that something has to be done about burning planes being able to fly perfectly fine. Maybe as the plane burns you start loosing peices off your plane.
I'd also like a new sound for getting pilot wounded. When you get PW'd it sounds exactly like when you get shot and loose a part of your plane.
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New Pilot Wound (http://www.thesoundarchive.com/play-wav-files.asp?sound=beavisandbutthead/myliver.wav)
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I want fire to melt the wires to your trigger button. That is, you can no longer fire fixed guns when on fire. Bombers can drop bombs if only to pickle them -- but I say this only because I'd like fire to do more than it does.
I want a fire to destroy things around it. If it's in a wing tank, I want it to disable the guns in that wing, destroy the gear in that wing, destroy the flaps, destroy the oil cooler (if spit/109 type of wing oil cooler).
I want it to do this gradually. THEN finally the wing pops off. So, instead of this "long wait then BOOM" I want "you can't fight and keep losing stuff every 15 seconds" -- this gives you a chance to go and set 'er down or RTB and get down in time if possible. However you still lose that part if you wait too long.
Here's the fun part: If it's a fuselage fire, I want it to be able to set bomber bombs on fire! It could be one of the parts that get "damaged" -- and the bomber has to pickle all the bombs before they blow.
Center parts that could get burn up include other fuel tanks, nose gear, radiators/coolers (depending on plane type and location of fire), and on single engined fighters: the PILOT will get wounded (just as shot) if the fire continues too long.
The overall time to death would extend, but the fight would be over instantly and it would be a race to survival.
THAT is what I want to see with fires!
EDIT: As the parts "go" you could just hear the "loud bang" noise in AH already and the part goes red on the damage list -- it's a very simple thing to include IMO, don't need to add any graphics!
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How about lose total control and do a death spiral not being able to control the plane just a big spin to the ground, while pieces flying off this would be good.
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Something...anything.
I hate to steal a kill from someone who shot up a zeke and is burning because zeke's can fly to no end while burning.
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Originally posted by Krusty
I want fire to melt the wires to your trigger button. That is, you can no longer fire fixed guns when on fire. Bombers can drop bombs if only to pickle them -- but I say this only because I'd like fire to do more than it does.
I want a fire to destroy things around it. If it's in a wing tank, I want it to disable the guns in that wing, destroy the gear in that wing, destroy the flaps, destroy the oil cooler (if spit/109 type of wing oil cooler).
I want it to do this gradually. THEN finally the wing pops off. So, instead of this "long wait then BOOM" I want "you can't fight and keep losing stuff every 15 seconds" -- this gives you a chance to go and set 'er down or RTB and get down in time if possible. However you still lose that part if you wait too long.
Here's the fun part: If it's a fuselage fire, I want it to be able to set bomber bombs on fire! It could be one of the parts that get "damaged" -- and the bomber has to pickle all the bombs before they blow.
Center parts that could get burn up include other fuel tanks, nose gear, radiators/coolers (depending on plane type and location of fire), and on single engined fighters: the PILOT will get wounded (just as shot) if the fire continues too long.
The overall time to death would extend, but the fight would be over instantly and it would be a race to survival.
THAT is what I want to see with fires!
EDIT: As the parts "go" you could just hear the "loud bang" noise in AH already and the part goes red on the damage list -- it's a very simple thing to include IMO, don't need to add any graphics!
I love this Idea. Do we get engine fires on bombers or are they just fuel? But if we get engine fires I would just rather love to see the fire eat away your engine and then maybe burn off your flaps rather the usually, BOOM an omg my whole wing fell off. If theres a fire in the middle of the bomber the flames eat away the skin and skeleton of the plane and it snaps in half.
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This is my first good idea =D. It's just I got alot of stolen kills from just lighting them up then seeing someone else blow it to pieces.
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Blackjack: That would be no different than an instant pilot kill. Fire wouldn't lead to instant death. The reason we have fire is just or added effect, anyways. It wasn't always there.
Also, the idea of changing the way fire works isn't new, but I've only just recently thought up my latest "wish" -- as described in this thread.
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Not instant death krusty just lose control of plane unable to fly it and just burn to ground not able to shoot other planes down.
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Originally posted by BlackJack
Not instant death krusty just lose control of plane unable to fly it and just burn to ground not able to shoot other planes down.
That's the same as losing a wing right now. It just doesn't really seem to compare to how planes on fire act. Usually planes spiral out of control when the pilot is killed (and sometimes fire can kill a pilot), but not always, and not if the fire is away from the cockpit.
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But krusty think would a plane have full control if on fire? or be able to see out of cockpit? I'm just saying its a good idea. I hate the fact that planes burn for 2 minutes of more.
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BlackJack, a few incidents influence a spiral to the ground. In some instances I've read of pilots that were on fire but shot down their enemies before crash landing to save themselves. Some of the incidents which influence a spiral to the ground are:
1. Your hydraulic systems got fried.
2. Your steering cables got fried / snapped.
3. Smoke / oil is obscuring your view.
4. The fire got in the cockpit.
In some cases all of the above will occur, in other instances none will occur. So you can't simply spiral to your death if you're on fire, because in reality, it didn't always happen.
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Ok but why be lit on fire for 2 minutes straight pieces braking and coming off would be good.
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Correct me if im wrong, but fire has a very bad effect on the surfices of a plane, something about how the air/fire mix and you get more drag and less lift .ect
So a plane with a left wing on fire, might kick to the left, and rip its nose left/down and spin down.
if memory serves.
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Correct me if im wrong, but fire has a very bad effect on the surfices of a plane, something about how the air/fire mix and you get more drag and less lift .ect
So a plane with a left wing on fire, might kick to the left, and rip its nose left/down and spin down.
if memory serves.
Yeah... I'm pretty sure fire would have to have some sort of aerodynamic affect on a wing. Since hotter air is less dense, the area that is flaming would be producing much less lift, I'd think. I'm not an expert on this kind of stuff though.
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This is why a flaming zero is not to be ingnored.
Yeah, you would definately loose control of your plane. :)
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I agree. Furballs with one or more Zero roman candles going round and round for ages dogfighting in exactly the same way as they would as if there was no fire is completely laughable. If the plane was melting all around me, I doubt I could have enough concentration to keep it level, let alone fly around and dogfight.
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Many planes have caught fire without spinning out of control. There are many instances where the plane was perfectly controllable.
There are cases where a fast dive would put the fire out, and cases where crew on a bomber would pull off dangerous stunts to put the fire out.
Keep in mind you're thinking of a stationary fire. On a wing that is moving through the air at over 100mph the fire would be more like a blowtorch, burning hot and bright and sharp, not billowy and smoky. Any disrupted air would be behind the wing as it is still moving forward into "fresh" air.
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No, i know exactly what it would look like, and what im thinkin'..you sumed it up perfectly tho.
..the air at over 100mph the fire would be more like a blowtorch, burning hot and bright and sharp..
Sorry to hack up your quote, but thats the most important part right there.
I wounder how many planes/bombers tryed the high speed dive, only to have the weaker wing/body crumple or fold under the pressure of combat damage and melted steel.
Willing to bet, for every one that survived..nine didn't.
Also remember in most cases those fires are engine fuel line fires, once fuel is cut, most bomber/plane steel wont keep burning.hence the dive to put the remaining fire out, if its a fuel tank, or something flamable liquid, that cannot be shut off, all bets are off.
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Originally posted by Krusty
I want fire to melt the wires to your trigger button. That is, you can no longer fire fixed guns when on fire. Bombers can drop bombs if only to pickle them -- but I say this only because I'd like fire to do more than it does.
I want a fire to destroy things around it. If it's in a wing tank, I want it to disable the guns in that wing, destroy the gear in that wing, destroy the flaps, destroy the oil cooler (if spit/109 type of wing oil cooler).
I want it to do this gradually. THEN finally the wing pops off. So, instead of this "long wait then BOOM" I want "you can't fight and keep losing stuff every 15 seconds" -- this gives you a chance to go and set 'er down or RTB and get down in time if possible. However you still lose that part if you wait too long.
Here's the fun part: If it's a fuselage fire, I want it to be able to set bomber bombs on fire! It could be one of the parts that get "damaged" -- and the bomber has to pickle all the bombs before they blow.
Center parts that could get burn up include other fuel tanks, nose gear, radiators/coolers (depending on plane type and location of fire), and on single engined fighters: the PILOT will get wounded (just as shot) if the fire continues too long.
The overall time to death would extend, but the fight would be over instantly and it would be a race to survival.
THAT is what I want to see with fires!
EDIT: As the parts "go" you could just hear the "loud bang" noise in AH already and the part goes red on the damage list -- it's a very simple thing to include IMO, don't need to add any graphics!
Well, the real only 2 complaints i have are with the Zekes and with the B-24s. If a zeke is on fire, its still flyin for another 5 minutes, it could result in that player landing kills OR shooting another 2 or 3 friendlies. I like the idea of when it's on fire, after a certain amount of time, it loses it's ability to fire it's guns and the pilot starts getting wounds. Then you cant fire and you die. My other complaint with the B-24 is how tough they are. It's almost completely inaccurate. If a B-24's #3 engine got shot out, it lost all hydraulic pressure and would go down. As i recall, if it lost its #4 or #2 engint (dont remember) it lost all power and could result in it going down. But then again, if they put that in effect, people would only aim at the #3 engine.
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Willing to bet, for every one that survived..nine didn't.
Doubt it.
For the same reason you can put out an oil rig fire with a concussive blast, you can put out a fire by smothering it (making a high speed dive). When I was talking about blowtorch I was talking normal speeds, not excessive high speed dives.
I don't suppose you ever played with candles as a kid? Have lit a campfire all by yourself (no match/lighter)?
If you get too much fuel (air) over a flame it actually gets weaker until it dies. It only burns brightest at a certain mixture of conditions. A fire in an airplane will most likely be hottest at slower speed bands. That's a guess from fireplace lighting, candle lighting, ember lighting, and other experiences, as well as having seen several things regarding firefighting.
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Originally posted by Krusty
The reason we have fire is just or added effect, anyways. It wasn't always there.
I myself don't remember when there weren't fires in AH, albeit the two-perpendicularly-bisecting-2D-"fire"-plates-that-smoke super duper effect in AH1, like the old bunker burn effect.
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This has been requested before please use the search function. :D
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Originally posted by Krusty
I want fire to melt the wires to your trigger button. That is, you can no longer fire fixed guns when on fire. Bombers can drop bombs if only to pickle them -- but I say this only because I'd like fire to do more than it does.
except if the pilot is superman I think IRL the pilot is dead long before the trigger button melt :p
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He's not talking about the trigger button melting. He's talking about the wires that send the "FIRE!" signal to the guns.
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...I should be able to hear the pilot screaming when he's in con range
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You sure?
http://www.simtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=9fc102edd9dbdb6a2891&page=1&viewtype=&category=mr
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Originally posted by Denholm
You sure?
http://www.simtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=9fc102edd9dbdb6a2891&page=1&viewtype=&category=mr
I can only roll my eyes and assure you that the game those clips are based on is far from historically accurate.
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If you're planes on fire...you got X amount of time to put it out by (diving or whatever) then boom. You shouldn't have roman candles making two circuits of an airfield
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Krusty, I was referring to ridley's post of wanting to hear pilots "scream" as they go down. I wasn't basing that video on historical accuracy or to show that vapor trails or heat waves reduce frame rates.
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Sorry, off the cuff, stupid remark. Too much time has passed to delete it.
Not a pleasant way to go.
Sometimes we all lose sight of what this little pixilated world of AH really represents.
Apologies.
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Originally posted by Denholm
He's not talking about the trigger button melting. He's talking about the wires that send the "FIRE!" signal to the guns.
is that really different ?
when metal melt flesh is well past medium rare :D
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Yes it is really different because the wire goes all the way to the guns so it can melt and not be in the cockpit....So it is.
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hmmmmm I would agree if the ammo were not stored usually close to the gun and this ù*$^ù melting wire :)
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The wire melting is just a game mechanic to stop the player from continuing his dogfight.
The wires go from the stick to the cockpit, perhaps to a fuse, to a main bus, to a battery, whatever, then eventually out to the guns.
Anywhere along the way, all you need is the paper insullation (I believe that was used at the time) to burn off and the wires to touch, shorting the system and negating trigger presses.
That could happen anywhere in the wings or fuselage, and it keeps players from dogfighting til their wing pops off.