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Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: df54 on February 26, 2008, 05:25:43 PM

Title: question for widewing
Post by: df54 on February 26, 2008, 05:25:43 PM
ive heard that a yak turns better to the right. is there any truth to this or just another myth
Title: question for widewing
Post by: hammer on February 26, 2008, 05:39:12 PM
true. The yak's prop (and the typhoon's) turn opposite of other planes. You can see this effect during taxiing... whichever way the plane pulls, that's the direction it turns best.

Regards,

Hammer
Title: question for widewing
Post by: DoNKeY on February 26, 2008, 05:53:22 PM
Hey, you're not WideWing! hehe :aok

Planes like the P-38 with counter-rotating props turn the same either way due to them not having an issue with torque.

donkey
Title: question for widewing
Post by: Yossarian on February 26, 2008, 06:18:59 PM
Just out of interest, for a plane like the P-38, would it turn better in a specific direction if you were to reduce the power to 1 engine during the turn?  Also, is the amount of torque only reduced if you decrease the RPMs (as opposed to ONLY reducing the manifold pressure)?  Would my original question have any effect on the (turning) performance of a plane such as the Mosquito?
Thanks for any help,

Yossarian
Title: question for widewing
Post by: DoNKeY on February 26, 2008, 06:55:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Yossarian
Just out of interest, for a plane like the P-38, would it turn better in a specific direction if you were to reduce the power to 1 engine during the turn?  Also, is the amount of torque only reduced if you decrease the RPMs (as opposed to ONLY reducing the manifold pressure)?  Would my original question have any effect on the (turning) performance of a plane such as the Mosquito?
Thanks for any help,

Yossarian


This is a question really only someone like a trainer/WideWing could answer, but from my experience, reducing power to one engine on the 38 really only helps with roll/getting out of a stall/and a little bit during a hammerhead.  Since the engine isn't on the center line, I doubt it would help you turn better my using its torque.  It might actually hurt you, and anyway, if you're in the medium to slower speed range it would just be robbing you of needed E, and that's never good.:aok   Hope that clears a little up until someone with more knowledge on this comes.

donkey
Title: question for widewing
Post by: Mace2004 on February 26, 2008, 07:33:51 PM
Donkey has it right.  

Reducing the power on the downwing engine in a level turn would do a couple of things.  At the beginning of the turn (i.e., as you roll into the turn) it would provide a very slight improvement in roll rate into the turn which you would probably not even notice (this is caused by yaw and dihedral effect).  Is it worth it?  No.  Use your rudder.

Reduced power in the turn means you will reduce your sustained turn rate (again, in a level turn).  In a level turn the only thing fighting drag is your engine power, reduce it and drag becomes more dominant and you will slow down (lose E) at a greater rate.  Also, split throttles would mean an uncoordinated turn which causes even more drag unless you can keep the ball centered in the turn without rudder.  

Reducing power on the downwing engine in a vertical rudder reversal should help as you're trying to swing your nose down at slow speed where your flight controls have reduced power so you're using thrust to augment the yaw rate.  That's provided of course that the differential thrust doesn't cause you to depart.

The amount of torque produced is related to MP, not RPM.  MP is a direct indication of how much power you are applying through the prop.  Low MP = low power = reduced torque/p-factor.  RPM does relate to gyroscopic effects (the effect of a rotating mass) which has some effect at very low airspeeds (and in something called a coupled departure which you won't see here in AH) but it's small compared to the torque.
Title: question for widewing
Post by: DoNKeY on February 26, 2008, 07:38:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mace2004
Donkey has it right.  


:) Do I get a carrot?

donkey
Title: question for widewing
Post by: Mace2004 on February 26, 2008, 07:43:08 PM
Goooood Donkey  :)
Title: question for widewing
Post by: DoNKeY on February 26, 2008, 07:46:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mace2004
Goooood Donkey  :)


HeeHaw!:)
Title: question for widewing
Post by: CAP1 on February 27, 2008, 12:05:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DoNKeY
Hey, you're not WideWing! hehe :aok

Planes like the P-38 with counter-rotating props turn the same either way due to them not having an issue with torque.

donkey


if i'm not mistaken, doesn't this also give the 38 a slight advantage in ythe verticle? it never seems to work for me, but i thought i've seen others use it.

<>
Title: question for widewing
Post by: CAP1 on February 27, 2008, 12:08:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DoNKeY
HeeHaw!:)


ok....now i'm hearing banjo music in my head, and seeing hot blondes running around in very short shorts:D
Title: question for widewing
Post by: Yossarian on February 27, 2008, 01:26:37 AM
well, I won't comment on the previous post, :p  but thanks for the help ppl:aok :D



Yossarian
Title: question for widewing
Post by: Mace2004 on February 27, 2008, 06:42:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by CAP1
if i'm not mistaken, doesn't this also give the 38 a slight advantage in ythe verticle? it never seems to work for me, but i thought i've seen others use it.

<>
Yes it would make a difference for any counter-rotating design.  Very low speed flight or handling right at the edge of stall and beyond is highly affected by torque which gains more prominance as flight control effectiveness deminishes.  For instance, take an F4U straight up to a stall and you're going to go one way, left.  That's why when in a vertical fight against one you want to offset a little to his right because it will be very difficult for him to rotate his nose to the right.  With counter-rotating designs you don't have that problem.
Title: question for widewing
Post by: IronDog on February 27, 2008, 09:36:30 AM
So the Yak and Tiffie would turn better to the left?I checked most of the other aircraft,and the props turn to the right.I wonder if AH models this or not?The Zero prop turns to the right,but I thought I read something on that matter,and in all actuallity it turned to the left.
IronDog
Title: question for widewing
Post by: BaldEagl on February 27, 2008, 12:16:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by IronDog
So the Yak and Tiffie would turn better to the left?I checked most of the other aircraft,and the props turn to the right.I wonder if AH models this or not?The Zero prop turns to the right,but I thought I read something on that matter,and in all actuallity it turned to the left.
IronDog


The prop roation and resulting torque are modeled in the game.
Title: question for widewing
Post by: Bronk on February 27, 2008, 12:49:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by IronDog
So the Yak and Tiffie would turn better to the left?I checked most of the other aircraft,and the props turn to the right.I wonder if AH models this or not?The Zero prop turns to the right,but I thought I read something on that matter,and in all actuallity it turned to the left.
IronDog

Try and roll a 109f to the right when slow and with power on. That will show you damn quick if it's modeled or not.
Title: question for widewing
Post by: hammer on February 27, 2008, 01:01:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by IronDog
So the Yak and Tiffie would turn better to the left?
No, to the right.
Title: whoops
Post by: df54 on February 27, 2008, 04:06:50 PM
we have a problem guys. i just came from da and yak prop turns to the left. therefore it should turn better to the left shouldnt it. its obivious not to many people fly yak's.
Title: Re: whoops
Post by: Lusche on February 27, 2008, 04:09:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by df54
we have a problem guys. i just came from da and yak prop turns to the left. therefore it should turn better to the left shouldnt it. its obivious not to many people fly yak's.


No. It turns better to right BECAUSE prop turns to left.
Read up about torque a bit. ;)
Title: lusche
Post by: df54 on February 27, 2008, 04:18:28 PM
what your saying contradicts hammers post
Title: strange behavior
Post by: df54 on February 27, 2008, 04:58:12 PM
yak pulls hard right on takeoff but hard left on landing(offline no crosswind). My rudder may need to be recalibrated.
Title: Re: lusche
Post by: Lusche on February 27, 2008, 05:28:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by df54
what your saying contradicts hammers post

No, it does not.

Hammer said that Yak turns better to the right. So did I.
Torque is a force that acts contrary to the propellers rotation. If a propeller turns left, the aircraft has a tendency  to roll right. And vice versa.
Title: Re: Re: lusche
Post by: TequilaChaser on February 27, 2008, 05:51:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lusche
No, it does not.

Hammer said that Yak turns better to the right. So did I.
Torque is a force that acts contrary to the propellers rotation. If a propeller turns left, the aircraft has a tendency  to roll right. And vice versa.


just like a F4U or F6f or P51 prop turns right and the Aircraft turns better going left, unless you back off the throttle a tad when turning right.....backing off the throttle in for instance the F4U when turning Right, helps tremendously
Title: lusche and hammer
Post by: df54 on February 27, 2008, 05:55:52 PM
my yak rolls left and pulls left on landing no rudder input,and tailwheel
locked. got it on film not sure how to post.
Title: take off yak
Post by: df54 on February 27, 2008, 06:22:00 PM
well at  least it pulls right like its suppossed to on takeoff
Title: question for widewing
Post by: Rolex on February 27, 2008, 06:26:06 PM
Using Combat Trim, your aircraft is automatically rough trimmed to counter that torque. Look at the trim tabs in the cockpit. Try putting elevator and aileron trim in the neutral position and you'll see the difference, df54.

Some aircraft are also "rigged" for torque, meaning that the vertical stabilizer is built at an offset.

The props of the Yaks, Typhoon, Tempest, and Spit XIV all rotate so that these aircraft will turn a little better to the right.