Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: kamori on February 28, 2008, 09:55:00 AM
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Turning the graphic setting down, as most have caught on by now, to see enemy gvs at a great distance through trees, hills, etc has become as common as hoin in the LA 7. Im sure that HTC intended it to be used for the slower comps and not as an advantage to GAME THE GAME.
Heres my concern It has made gvin no challenge. It was great at the beginning with the new terrain that we could set up an ambush or advance on an enemy using the cover and terrain. The skill was listening to and out witting the enemy. That made gvin fun. I hate to say it but now its one of the worst aspects of the game. Its like playing a late 80's video game just point and click.
HTC: Can it be changed that ONLY while in a Gv the terrain can not be turned down? It will greatly solve allot of frustration and bring back a challenge to a once important and enjoyable aspect of the game.
Kamori
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I Agree
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On the other hand, being in a GV so close to all the ground clutter and trees eats up a LOT more FPS than being in the air in a furball.
I remember back before my computer update I could fly around with 40+ FPS but the SECOND I jumped into a GV I was barely getting 10 fps.
Zooming in made me get 1 frame every 2-4 seconds.
Simply saying "disable detail sliders" is a bad idea because that's where they are needed MOST!
I think the solution lies in a different way of displaying stuff WHILE the detail slider is reduced.
A (not-so?) simple line of code that says "IF in full detail mode you could not see this, then it won't even show up in low detail mode" would get the job done.
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I understand that HTC wants to make this as playable to as many as possible. The reality: if you want to play the newer advanced games in the PC market one needs to have the tools to do so. If you want to heat up food fast, then Get a microwave. If you want to watch HDTV then get the technology appropriate to do so.
HTC has done a GREAT job in making this game playable to most. Still this has really cheapened this aspect of Aces High.
This is not intended to be or become a negative criticism to HTC. Its being posted as a major concern from a player of over 4 years. As far as making this a simple change I am sure its not, if it can be created then it can be changed. To what degree I have know clue. HTC are the professionals.
Kamori
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It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
Good man :aok
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I think that's a poor philosophy: If you want to play games you need the best PC on the market.
It just isn't true 90% of the time. Only the latest generation of games really requires a super high-end machine. Even AH runs fairly well on older machines.
Simply adding bloat for bloat's sake is not progress, in my book. That's how you get things like Windows Vista, and recent iterations of WinAmp.
I have a semi-decent computer now, but I've been on the short end of the stick many times. I can't afford computer upgrades every time a new game comes out. They make a game that requires a quad-core X6900 whatever, 4GB RAM and a SLI Ge8800 setup, I'm sorry they're going out of business because I'm not going to buy it.
It's like an engine manufacturer building a V16 engine for cars, only no cars currently exist to use it, and it won't fit in anything on the road today. They go under. You have to work WITH the market, or you don't work at all.
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
Does this mean no more adjustments for graphic clutter, or just that GVs will no longer render when the objects near them don't?
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awesome, thanks for the headsup on this HiTech! Maybe I'll take the time to learn how to gv proper now!
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I'm wagering the latter, hubs
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If you were advocating that reducing the detail range also reduces the range that vehicles are viewable I would agree.
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Thats GREAT news HTC.. Thank You...
BTW Krusty:
Originally posted by Krusty
I think that's a poor philosophy: If you want to play games you need the best PC on the market.
I never at any time stated that one Needs the top of the line. We need the correct tools for the job. IN Plane Words: A comp that will run the game.
I personally run an older:
Socket A cpu 1.8 Gig $90.00 2 years ago BTW overclocks to 2.5 gig AMD 2500 Mobile
1 gig memory $75.00
7950 gt nvidia card. $ 159.99
This runs the game well...
And its very inexpensive..
kamori
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
Thank you kind sir!
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
I can hear much lamenting and gnashing of teeth already . :")
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
WOOO HOOOOOOOO :aok
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
Thank you sir! I promise to get back into a tank again! Yee-haa!
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
What address do i send the bottle of scotch to!!!
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
WTG hitech :aok this should bring some fun back to the gv world
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my question is :
Is this "change" going to hurt the performance of my comp?
cause in TT, i already run a 5 to 6 FRPS
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
Wholeheartedly thank you very much, sir. WTG.
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
WTG!! :aok
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Originally posted by Krusty
On the other hand, being in a GV so close to all the ground clutter and trees eats up a LOT more FPS than being in the air in a furball.
I remember back before my computer update I could fly around with 40+ FPS but the SECOND I jumped into a GV I was barely getting 10 fps.
Zooming in made me get 1 frame every 2-4 seconds.
Simply saying "disable detail sliders" is a bad idea because that's where they are needed MOST!
I think the solution lies in a different way of displaying stuff WHILE the detail slider is reduced.
A (not-so?) simple line of code that says "IF in full detail mode you could not see this, then it won't even show up in low detail mode" would get the job done.
The problem with this, is allowing it to happen so people with slower computers can still play, has also affected the playability for "all" the other players. So everyone who pays to play this game now have to take second fiddle to the guys whom have slower computers. (btw my older PC that was over 4 years old played fine at full detail).
It has been abused so much I don't even bother GVing anymore except on the rare occasions. Typically My GVing is now limited to Flacks and the occasional quick defense at a Vbase.
The hunt and strategy on the GV end is gone, so it's just sit back and pop other GV's 3 miles away. No real fun in that, I mean really what's the point.
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
Awesome didn't see your reply. :aok
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The bug is on the Distance at which mostly trees and a few other things were dropping out with a low LOD setting. The way the system is suposed to work, is that you can bring the Object distance slider down for FPS, but vehicles past that distance are not displayed.
When we upgraded a lot of the ground objects, a few of the objects had to short of LOD setting on them.
Over all FPS impact should be very small at the same settings.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
The bug is on the Distance at which mostly trees and a few other things were dropping out with a low LOD setting. The way the system is suposed to work, is that you can bring the Object distance slider down for FPS, but vehicles past that distance are not displayed.
When we upgraded a lot of the ground objects, a few of the objects had to short of LOD setting on them.
Over all FPS impact should be very small at the same settings.
HiTech
There isn't a single misspelled word in that post. Who are you and what have you done with HiTech!! :O
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
Thanks.
:D :D
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
Thank You :aok
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Originally posted by hitech
The bug is on the Distance at which mostly trees and a few other things were dropping out with a low LOD setting. The way the system is suposed to work, is that you can bring the Object distance slider down for FPS, but vehicles past that distance are not displayed.
When we upgraded a lot of the ground objects, a few of the objects had to short of LOD setting on them.
Over all FPS impact should be very small at the same settings.
HiTech
That should be perfect. I assume this would keep aircraft from turning their settings down to see GV's as well?
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Can shrubs still overturn tanks?
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Originally posted by eh
Can shrubs still overturn tanks?
Only warshrubs
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Originally posted by crockett
That should be perfect. I assume this would keep aircraft from turning their settings down to see GV's as well?
Airplanes never had to. This was solely a GV vs GV issue.
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
whoo hooo
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Thanks HTC, it will be again fun to do GV'ing
xxIENAxx
367th "Dynamite Gang"
Still looking for my sheep (Betty took them fm me)
"Small chances of success?Certain dead?What r we waiting for!!"
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yes but he capitalized Distance and Object. 99% but great sentence and spelling
:D
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Originally posted by Elfie
There isn't a single misspelled word in that post. Who are you and what have you done with HiTech!! :O
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by eh
Can shrubs still overturn tanks?
Maybe? that is why I have Roger with me the Shrubber. (http://www.picburst.com/uploads/d62b35093d.jpg) (http://www.picburst.com)
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Originally posted by eh
Can shrubs still overturn tanks?
Don't forget about the sheep.
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Originally posted by Elfie
There isn't a single misspelled word in that post. Who are you and what have you done with HiTech!! :O
He used spell check like me.
:D :D :aok :rofl
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Originally posted by Elfie
There isn't a single misspelled word in that post. Who are you and what have you done with HiTech!! :O
FireFox 2.0+ has a spellcheck-while-you-type function.
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Yeah?
What good is a red line under every word i miss spell.
Oh yay look, now i KNOW what i cant spell.
.....looks it underlined yay.
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Yeah?
What good is a red line under every word i miss spell.
Oh yay look, now i KNOW what i cant spell.
.....looks it underlined yay.
Well ahhh......... they might be smart enough to add say................
a right click that gives possible correct spellings.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by hitech
When we upgraded a lot of the ground objects, a few of the objects had to short of LOD setting on them.
"too" :D
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
Thank you. I might be in tanks more often now.
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Originally posted by hitech
It was an oversight , has already been fixed for the next release.
Its always nice to hear someone admit that they made a mistake. I've been coding for about 10 years and I still have oversights every now and then. The key is to admit it and fix it. I commend you sir.:aok
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Originally posted by Krusty
Airplanes never had to. This was solely a GV vs GV issue.
Actually yes, the same thing can be used in an airplane against GV's. Makes it much easier to spot GV's to bomb. How else do you think level bombers spot GV's hiding in trees.
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Originally posted by crockett
Actually yes, the same thing can be used in an airplane against GV's. Makes it much easier to spot GV's to bomb. How else do you think level bombers spot GV's hiding in trees.
They're pretty easy to spot. From my experience with them, level bombers dont really spot you anyway, they just carpet bomb a general area where GV's are.
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Thank You.
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Originally posted by Motherland
They're pretty easy to spot. From my experience with them, level bombers dont really spot you anyway, they just carpet bomb a general area where GV's are.
well trust me they can do it..
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Originally posted by crockett
Actually yes, the same thing can be used in an airplane against GV's. Makes it much easier to spot GV's to bomb. How else do you think level bombers spot GV's hiding in trees.
don't use planes much do you either that or you have ICONS turned off.
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Originally posted by LYNX
don't use planes much do you either that or you have ICONS turned off.
You can't see GV Icons 10 miles away.. However if you turn your graphics down you can see GV's 10 miles away because there are no trees or barns or city buildings in the way.
This is not a GV vs GV only problem.
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Originally posted by crockett
You can't see GV Icons 10 miles away.. However if you turn your graphics down you can see GV's 10 miles away because there are no trees or barns or city buildings in the way.
This is not a GV vs GV only problem.
Whens the last time you hit a GV 10 miles away from an airplane? You have to be right on top of it (literally...) and at that range its easy to spot anyway.
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Nobody said he hit it, however I'm sure he could direct friendly GVs and anti-GV aircraft from that distance directly on top of it.
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There is also a range for ground objects key press.
makes it so you can see gv's and other ground targets much further out, set to short range by default.
*opens pandora's box*
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Originally posted by Krusty
On the other hand, being in a GV so close to all the ground clutter and trees eats up a LOT more FPS than being in the air in a furball.
I remember back before my computer update I could fly around with 40+ FPS but the SECOND I jumped into a GV I was barely getting 10 fps.
Zooming in made me get 1 frame every 2-4 seconds.
That used to be true, but isn't anymore. HTC made a significant improvement in the rendering engine awhile ago. Now when you zoom in, the fps actually goes up (which it should since with a smaller FOV there are fewer trees to render).
Hitech: thank you for fixing this (the detail thingie that is, thank you for the prior improved fps as well). Due to the vagries of hit detection with trees and little hills, it was entirely possible to actually shoot through some hills if you could see the tank behind them by turning down detail. [I don't mean lobbing shells over a hill, I mean straight through them.] That kinda significantly subtracted from the GV experience.
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Originally posted by Motherland
Whens the last time you hit a GV 10 miles away from an airplane? You have to be right on top of it (literally...) and at that range its easy to spot anyway.
That's not the point.. The point is bombers can see you way out just like other GV's can.. They then have plenty of time to line up and bomb the hell out of you.
Granted it's not anywhere as big of a problem as the issue is with GV vs GV's but it is pretty annoying none the less.
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Get a joystick and fly an airplane and there is no problem.
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Originally posted by Stang
Get a joystick and fly an airplane and there is no problem.
Exactly!
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Speaking as a Ground Attacker in a fighter bomber, I have graphics set to full detail and as any Rook (the ones I tend to work with) can tell you, I spot GV's easily from long distance.
The reason being, because I have come to know what to look for when I am hunting them and this includes the ones working their way thru the tree's. It isn't exploiting a flaw or a bug, you will just find that those of us who concentrate on attacking Gv's in a personal manner, with a single bomb or salvoed rockets, learn to look for the little details, that tell us where you are as we approach. Half the time I am on an approach run, before I ever see an Icon and at times, if Flaks are present, I am dropping from outside Icon range aiming to drop long, to make up for an altered approach and to keep my tail feathers from being singed.
I would speculate, that most if not all the players who use fighter bombers to hunt GV's (outside of base defense) don't use any shortcuts, to accomplish this.
On the topic at hand, I am glad the oversight is being fixed and will most likely be found tooling around in a panzer more often.
Thank You Hitech
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Originally posted by Leayme
Speaking as a Ground Attacker in a fighter bomber, I have graphics set to full detail and as any Rook (the ones I tend to work with) can tell you, I spot GV's easily from long distance.
The reason being, because I have come to know what to look for when I am hunting them and this includes the ones working their way thru the tree's. It isn't exploiting a flaw or a bug, you will just find that those of us who concentrate on attacking Gv's in a personal manner, with a single bomb or salvoed rockets, learn to look for the little details, that tell us where you are as we approach. Half the time I am on an approach run, before I ever see an Icon and at times, if Flaks are present, I am dropping from outside Icon range aiming to drop long, to make up for an altered approach and to keep my tail feathers from being singed.
I would speculate, that most if not all the players who use fighter bombers to hunt GV's (outside of base defense) don't use any shortcuts, to accomplish this.
On the topic at hand, I am glad the oversight is being fixed and will most likely be found tooling around in a panzer more often.
Thank You Hitech
You are correct. Most times in my F6F5 I am either vectored by a friendly to the enemy GV's location or I see the enemy GV firing.
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If this 'fix' prevents other gv's from nailing me when I'm hiding behind a hill...please...hurry up with the patch.
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Originally posted by ridley1
If this 'fix' prevents other gv's from nailing me when I'm hiding behind a hill...please...hurry up with the patch.
Though it won't stop the general whining about "cheating" in GV's. I have killed many a tanker that thought he was safe behind his hill. Not being aware that one could see his pintle mount, or you could even use gunflash only as a reference.
And of course we will still read a lot of "You shot me through the hill!!" :rofl
But thanks HTC for correcting that detail slider issue :aok
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Today I got pooched by a camper. I watched as his shells came through the hill I was beside. Even from my pintle position, I couldn't see him. (I knew where he was....I had been killed 10+ times) I mean...I couldn't even see the hill that I knew he was on.
I was also killed hiding behind a tree......the shells coming through it. I try to shoot through a tree....it stops my shell.
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Originally posted by ridley1
Today I got pooched by a camper. I watched as his shells came through the hill I was beside. Even from my pintle position, I couldn't see him. (I knew where he was....I had been killed 10+ times) I mean...I couldn't even see the hill that I knew he was on.
I was also killed hiding behind a tree......the shells coming through it. I try to shoot through a tree....it stops my shell.
First, just because I can't see an enemy from any of my tank's crew postiton, that doesn't mean he can't either. He just has to see a very small part of your tank protruding from cover - a little piece of gun or MG barrel, just a tiny bit of your tracks.
And sometimes you can even correctly guess if you do not actually see the tank - SA in vehicles :)
Second: Nobody shoots through hills & trees.
It sometime seems they do, but this is a result of how the graphics are displayed in this game. Only your own shells are renderd in detail and with correct trajectories.
All rounds fired by anybody else are just displayed in a simplified way on your screen. While on your screen it may look as if shooting through a hill, on their screen they just shot over it.
Next time you see an enemy Ostwind or Panzer taking down a town, take a close look at it: Often you will see most of his bullets go through the town and hit the ground or trees behind it. Yet there are buildings exploding. No, he isn't a blind gunner - on his FE almost all of his shells do hit the buildings...
Like in collisions or shooting at "impossible" angles in planes, the magic keywords are again "your FE" and "his FE". And lag can be a issue in GV's too.
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Crockett: Even before this bug/exploit, no planes had problems finding GVs. If they were looking, they could find them with a little effort. Aircraft never had to "cheat" to see the enemy tanks. Also they have icons within 3k or so.
It was only an exploit for GVers who were trying to get single-shot kills from 5k out and the like . It was specific only to GVs looking for enemy GVs, not for planes looking for GVs, or GVs looking for planes, or planes looking for planes. Just GV v. GV action was affected.
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Originally posted by 715
Due to the vagries of hit detection with trees and little hills, it was entirely possible to actually shoot through some hills if you could see the tank behind them by turning down detail. [I don't mean lobbing shells over a hill, I mean straight through them.]
Absolutely 100% false. Film?
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I understand the osti/town thing.
But no matter...this patch will alter gv play. I think...
I reserve my right to whine after it comes out. Deal?
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Sorry for killing you at your spawn site Ridley. Will try not to do it next time.
:rofl :aok
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Bugs/fixes aside, I notice someone claiming to spot vehicles from 10 miles (nearly 18K yards in game). Isn't the range at which plane or gv "dots" are rendered half that?
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yeah, well, If I'm dumb enough to up 20 times......
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Originally posted by Krusty
... I'm sorry they're going out of business because I'm not going to buy it.
Can I use that for sig material? :rofl
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Originally posted by eh
Can shrubs still overturn tanks?
No but the mere leaf of a maple tree is still strong enough to flip a 56 ton Tiger over LOL
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Originally posted by Lusche
Though it won't stop the general whining about "cheating" in GV's. I have killed many a tanker that thought he was safe behind his hill. Not being aware that one could see his pintle mount, or you could even use gunflash only as a reference.
And of course we will still read a lot of "You shot me through the hill!!" :rofl
But thanks HTC for correcting that detail slider issue :aok
I think the point he may have been trying ot make is with the graphic slider trick.
Trees and some hills become invisible allowing you to clearly see the GV trying to hide or travel behind it.
I know using the slider trick I've seen GVs climbing invisible hills and look as though they are levitating.
What I think is desired.
By me as well as others.
Is that the settings be that if you cant see the GV wih the sliders up.
you shouldnt be able to see them with the sliders down
the trick thats being use is you turn the detail sliders all the way down. and the range sliders all the way up.
This is what allows you to see GVs at great range reguardless of terrain as the detail sliders seem to not effect the GVs. only the terrain.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Absolutely 100% false. Film?
I am aware that people do not believe this. That's fine. Nevertheless, I was hiding behind a tall hill. [I almost never engage directly. With my T34 I lie in wait hidden until someone drives by and fire at short range.] Even in max up commanders view the top of the hill was maybe another 15-20 ft above me, and all other portions of my tank. I was right up against the hill. You cannot "lob" a shell over the hill and hit me- it's geometrically impossible. In any case the tracers were going right through the base of the hill. And yes, the other tank was some distance away directly on the other side of the hill. It doesn't always happen, only with certain hills. And it doesn't happen often because I suspect only a few people use the turn down detail method, and they therefore wouldn't see me. However, I don't care enough to bother filming it. I just go do something else.
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I have noticed when I am in a GV, that you can spot the tracks of someone hugging or sitting on a hill, thru the hill, most of the time.
I too have been shot when completely covered by the hill, no pintle exposed, back a suitable distance from the edge. I was set up to take out tanks going by my position where I could shoot them broadside, when I heard the ping, then the clang of a hit, popped up into the pintle and witnessed the next round coming thru the side of the large hill I was situated near, but far enough away that you should not have been able to spot the track on it.
I think it has something to do with lag, refresh rates and how different computers "SEE" the information displayed and the other system, just didn't see the hill and so got a hit and maybe a kill.
Of course this is idle speculation on my part, I don't know enough about code and the like to be even dangerous to my own computer....thankfully :D
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Originally posted by Elfie
There isn't a single misspelled word in that post. Who are you and what have you done with HiTech!! :O
Where I'm from, we spell "supposed" with an extra p.
MtnMan