Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Russian on February 28, 2008, 03:28:29 PM
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http://wcbstv.com/national/prison.americans.prison.2.665053.html
Using updated state-by-state data, the report said 2,319,258 adults were held in U.S. prisons or jails at the start of 2008 -- one out of every 99.1 adults, and more than any other country in the world.
I really don't understand... why is that a country that boasts about democracy and freedom keeps over 2milion people behind bars?
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Commit a felony...go to jail.
I am VERY happy we have a system that imprisons convicted felons. Personally, I think our judicial system is too lenient in some cases.
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dear god.......PLEASE TAKE THE DUMB ONES AWAY....
that would at least solve SOME of the overcrowding problems in our prison system :aok
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Originally posted by Russian
http://wcbstv.com/national/prison.americans.prison.2.665053.html
I really don't understand... why is that a country that boasts about democracy and freedom keeps over 2milion people behind bars?
Russian, you appear to only read into these statistics what you want to read. Perhaps you should read up on the justice systems in other countries before you put both feet in your mouth. Tell me, what does the most populated country in the world do with their criminals?
BTW I'm not American so this is an unbiased view.
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More behavior that used to be considered misdemeanor is now prosecuted as felonies, you know drug laws, simple A&B can be labeled a hate crime and elevated, drunk driving, child support, all kinds of other stuff.
We have decided that that is what we want, and one thing that you have to understand is that if you clammer for tougher laws and sentences, that is one wish that history has shown will be granted without much discourse by the government for some reason.
I bet we can get the figure up to 3 million in 10 years.
shamus
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Perhaps Russian would rather the law abiding folks be forced to stay behind fortified walls rather than the thieves, rapists, child molesters and murderers.
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too many laws, if you make everything a crime then everyone is a criminal.
go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Perhaps Russian would rather the law abiding folks be forced to stay behind fortified walls rather than the thieves, rapists, child molesters and murderers.
i do not have the numbers but i think the majority of people in jail are not thieves, rapists, child molesters and murderers.
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Originally posted by john9001
too many laws, if you make everything a crime then everyone is a criminal.
go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
that is in part part of the problem.
I've talked to several people who have either come to or vitied the US and asked them what they thought.
Surprisingly alot of them tell me that for all the touting of "freedom" we talk they are amazed at our lack of freedoms.
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they are amazed at our lack of freedoms.
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amazed are they? lol
Do they ever mention what freedoms we lack? just out of curiosity......
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Dred, don't spout that bull****. There are very few countries in the world that could even come close to touching the freedom we have.
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Originally posted by Russian
http://wcbstv.com/national/prison.americans.prison.2.665053.html
I really don't understand... why is that a country that boasts about democracy and freedom keeps over 2milion people behind bars?
Because we can't just ship them to Australia and New Zealand the way the Brits used to?
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Originally posted by john9001
i do not have the numbers but i think the majority of people in jail are not thieves, rapists, child molesters and murderers.
John,
You really ought to go look at some of the folks in prison. Keep in mind that given the limits on housing there it can take some doing to actually end up there instead of probation.
I've dealt with some of them, helped put some in there and am happy to have them there than outside.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Perhaps Russian would rather the law abiding folks be forced to stay behind fortified walls rather than the thieves, rapists, child molesters and murderers.
Are you saying that American way of life produces those in extra amounts compare to other nations? I lived here half of my short life and haven't noticed....
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Perhaps we are just better at finding and keeping them incarcerated rather than just giving out a slap on the wrist for first through fourth convictions.
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Originally posted by Russian
http://wcbstv.com/national/prison.americans.prison.2.665053.html
I really don't understand... why is that a country that boasts about democracy and freedom keeps over 2milion people behind bars?
About a .3 out of 10 on the Troll Meter.(http://ide.li/modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif)
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My freedom stops where yours begins. :)
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Your freedom ends where mine begins.;)
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"Create a war, so government can carry on."
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At least the West doesn't jail people for "political re-education".
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Dred, don't spout that bull****. There are very few countries in the world that could even come close to touching the freedom we have.
:lol Define "few"
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Originally posted by Russian
http://wcbstv.com/national/prison.americans.prison.2.665053.html
I really don't understand... why is that a country that boasts about democracy and freedom keeps over 2milion people behind bars?
Who is more free, a country that puts its anti-socials and criminals in prison, or one that lets them run around harming citizens?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Dred, don't spout that bull****. There are very few countries in the world that could even come close to touching the freedom we have.
Well, i think all the countries in Central Europe come very close to the same freedom (and in places like Scandinavia), they have even more then in US.
And then in Europe we have very different laws about guns, rarely u find a family that owns one, so we dont have so many crimes guns related.
xxIENAxx
367th "Dynamite Gang"
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Actually alot of homes have weapons here, but they are mostly hunting weapons and some competion guns.
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See Rule #5
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Dred, don't spout that bull****. There are very few countries in the world that could even come close to touching the freedom we have.
Oh really? Tell us what special freedoms you have there that I don't have.
Let's start with some simple freedoms.
I can take adult beverages of my choice to any public park (along with a blanket, a BBQ, some music and friends) and have a great time. My friends can get so drunk they can't even stand up. We are assembling in a peaceful manner and we will not be bothered by the police, except to maybe make sure my drunk friends can get home safely. You'll be arrested for being drunk in public, having an open bottle of alcohol, disorderly conduct and probably be tased.
I am free to set up a band on a street corner and give concert. You will be arrested.
I can assemble peacefully with other people for a demonstration and wave a sign, if I wish. I can give a speech on a busy street corner with a bullhorn. I don't need a permit and the police will not bother me or try to stop me. I am free to do that. You will be stopped and arrested if you do not stop. You'll be lucky to not be tased.
I am free to walk or drive anywhere I please without the fear of being mugged or robbed. I could walk around with thousands of dollars worth of money hanging out of every pocket and be free of fear. You can't do that.
I can start a business tomorrow with the freedom of not having to get business licenses from the city, the state, the federal government, or even a tax number. You couldn't do that. You don't have that freedom.
I am free to open a liquor store and sell it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. You can't do that.
I am free to open a bar that operates all night, if I choose. I don't have to have a non-smoking section. I can choose to make it all smoking or all non-smoking or any damn way I choose. You can't do that.
I am free to open a business anywhere I want. You can't do that.
I am free to build a house of any design I want, any where that I want. You can't do that.
I am free to marry anyone I want without having to buy a license from the government to do it. We are free to divorce without the government blessing our decision. You can't do that.
I am free of politicians most of the time. When it's time for an election, politicians can campaign for only about 10 days before the election. You are relentlessly harassed and stalked by them and the media day after day for almost 2 years. Ahar... :D
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Actually European countries arent even close to our freedoms and the Police are restricted far less in Euro-countries. In some Euro-countries you are required by Law to carry ID and can be arrested if you dont.
what freedoms?
what countries?
LMAO
:lol :lol :lol
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
"MOst" are in jail for drug offenses. Most of those are repeat offenders.
Actually European countries arent even close to our freedoms and the Police are restricted far less in Euro-countries. In some Euro-countries you are required by Law to carry ID and can be arrested if you dont.
Drediock and his friends:rofl He's got a "friend" somewhere in the world to support everyone of his arguements. Hey Dred baby ask your "friend" exactly how we are less free?
Exactly now. In words!
Ok, im Italian and live in Denmark, in my 44 yrs i have been aroud Europe a lot, so here my questions :
In which points arent we even close to your freedom?
And in which country, they arrest u if u havent an ID?
And yes Nilsen, some people have hunting guns in Europe, but very few a AK47, shotgun , Beretta 9mm or guns of that kind.
xxIENAxx
367th "Dynamite Gang"
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Dred, don't spout that bull****. There are very few countries in the world that could even come close to touching the freedom we have.
yea,
I as kinda shocked and upset when I was told that too. LOL
Kinda suprising to receive an outside perspective that doesnt match our own isnt it.
And we're becomming less and less free all the time. Nibble by nibble.
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Laser I think I already asked you this.. Have you ever been out of the US, and if so, for how long?
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American children are taught that they're not responsible for their own actions, it's no wonder they end up in prison. Most inmates I talk to feels the world owes them something, like a free ride.
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Hell may be freezing over, I agree with John9001 regarding the 'make everything illegal and everyone is a criminal' sentiment and Xargos in the post above.
I picked the wrong day to stop drinking....
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Hell may be freezing over, I agree with John9001 regarding the 'make everything illegal and everyone is a criminal' sentiment and Xargos in the post above.
I picked the wrong day to stop drinking....
I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.
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Rolex, where do you live?
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Rice burner heaven John. :)
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so the only real freedom we have over other countries is that we can own any handgun and carry it with us to defend ourselves if we wish (in most states)?
good start. Big deal to me... then there is the taxes thing but...
lazs
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There's quite a few people in prison for gang offenses, drugs, guns, murder...
Those felons are in prison for a good reason. We don't want them on the street.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
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What happens when it all collapses? Where do all the Millions of Prisoners go?
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Originally posted by Nefarious
What happens when it all collapses? Where do all the Millions of Prisoners go?
McDonald`s.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
McDonald`s.
:lol
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Originally posted by Rolex
Oh really? Tell us what special freedoms you have there that I don't have.
Let's start with some simple freedoms.
I can take adult beverages of my choice to any public park (along with a blanket, a BBQ, some music and friends) and have a great time. My friends can get so drunk they can't even stand up. We are assembling in a peaceful manner and we will not be bothered by the police, except to maybe make sure my drunk friends can get home safely. You'll be arrested for being drunk in public, having an open bottle of alcohol, disorderly conduct and probably be tased.
I am free to set up a band on a street corner and give concert. You will be arrested.
I can assemble peacefully with other people for a demonstration and wave a sign, if I wish. I can give a speech on a busy street corner with a bullhorn. I don't need a permit and the police will not bother me or try to stop me. I am free to do that. You will be stopped and arrested if you do not stop. You'll be lucky to not be tased.
I am free to walk or drive anywhere I please without the fear of being mugged or robbed. I could walk around with thousands of dollars worth of money hanging out of every pocket and be free of fear. You can't do that.
I can start a business tomorrow with the freedom of not having to get business licenses from the city, the state, the federal government, or even a tax number. You couldn't do that. You don't have that freedom.
I am free to open a liquor store and sell it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. You can't do that.
I am free to open a bar that operates all night, if I choose. I don't have to have a non-smoking section. I can choose to make it all smoking or all non-smoking or any damn way I choose. You can't do that.
I am free to open a business anywhere I want. You can't do that.
I am free to build a house of any design I want, any where that I want. You can't do that.
I am free to marry anyone I want without having to buy a license from the government to do it. We are free to divorce without the government blessing our decision. You can't do that.
I am free of politicians most of the time. When it's time for an election, politicians can campaign for only about 10 days before the election. You are relentlessly harassed and stalked by them and the media day after day for almost 2 years. Ahar... :D
Japan?
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Actually European countries arent even close to our freedoms and the Police are restricted far less in Euro-countries. In some Euro-countries you are required by Law to carry ID and can be arrested if you dont.
Wow. And how many countries have you been in? Which ones in Europe do this? I Sure am glad it wasn't like that 5 years ago when I travelled through 9 of those countries for 5 months.... things must've gotten really bad really fast over there in the old world.
Either that or you have no idea what you are talking about.
I, personally, found Europe to be on par with our freedoms in the states. Beyond that, I found most of the people I ran into friendly and patient. Amazing, really, when asking for directions in languages I could barely begin to speak and they didn't get pissy. Respect and curiosity were the rule. Bad words and bad pictures (read cursing and porn) on regular television. Drinking in the streets. Pretty much don't act like an idiot and you're not treated like one. People weren't nearly as stuck up there..... ESPECIALLY the women. If you're single, "hit" Europe...especially Sweden, Holland, Denmark...Germany (though stay away from the big tourist centers in Germany, people are a bit more crazy there)
I suggest you leave the country and find things out for yourself, instead of listening to others tell you that America is the only truly free country in the world. As far as ID...that gem is coming here.. it isn't there.
People born on or after December 1, 1964, will have to obtain a REAL ID by December 1, 2014. Those born before December 1, 1964, will have until December 1, 2017 to obtain their REAL ID.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
McDonald`s.
:rofl Nearly spewed Coke (from Mcdonalds) all over my work monitor.
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Originally posted by lazs2
so the only real freedom we have over other countries is that we can own any handgun and carry it with us to defend ourselves if we wish (in most states)?
good start. Big deal to me... then there is the taxes thing but...
lazs
We even have this one :D (with some restriction I must say)
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Hell may be freezing over, I agree with John9001 regarding the 'make everything illegal and everyone is a criminal' sentiment and Xargos in the post above.
I picked the wrong day to stop drinking....
Really though, I can't figure out why an inmate who is in for only three months is put in the same cell as a lifer.
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Originally posted by Nefarious
:rofl Nearly spewed Coke (from Mcdonalds) all over my work monitor.
LOL Sorry bout that.
Sometimes things just pop out of my fingers. :)
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No need to apologize, I needed a good laugh.
Honestly though, it does worry me. A complete and utter collapse would most likely see the release of millions of prisoners whether intentionally or by rioting/escape. Unless of course they are left inside to die. I guess its hard to say what really would happen. But I would make note of the nearest correctional facility or federal prison and make sure to steer clear of it when it happens.
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Funny ...
I remember my sister visiting me for the first time in Melbourne, FL. I pick her up from the airport. She's all bummed out because she can't smoke in the terminal. We go get something to eat, she's pissed because she has to give 15% of tip. Then we go to the beach, she's frustrated because she cannot be topless.
We go home, it's 9pm and the restaurants are all closing, all is left is Mc Donald's alike. She ask me where to bus stop is to go shoping in town tomorrow. I told her there's no buss system, and that the only place to shop is "the mall", they don't have a "downtown" like in European cities where you can walk the streets to shops, and sit at a terrase to enjoy a coffee.
She told me that she had more freedom in France.:lol I think it's just a difference of culture.
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Originally posted by Nefarious
What happens when it all collapses? Where do all the Millions of Prisoners go?
Straight to the closest Guns N Ammo probably.
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Originally posted by lazs2
so the only real freedom we have over other countries is that we can own any handgun and carry it with us to defend ourselves if we wish (in most states)?
good start. Big deal to me... then there is the taxes thing but...
lazs
Not in Joisey.
Here you need to be able to show a legitimate need to have a handgun before they will give you permission to own one.
You even need a permit to own a BB gun
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land of the free and home of the brave are just words to a song.
welcome to the Peoples Republic of the United States.
drink the obama koolaid and everything will be fine.
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Thats odd... i thougth bush was the ruler of your land still.
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It's called externalizing. All people do it to some extent, generally as a nation the more miserable you are the more you externalize. Just look at Russia and how they blame everyone else for their problems. Same with most of the Muslim states. America is no different, and loudly exalting their freedom above all others is what they have always cringed back on to in times of need. I prefer that to the Russian way of military posturing and threatening rhetoric.
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I would agree that we are vastly less free here than we were in th 50's 60's and 70's.
We are less free every day. we do have pretty cheap fuel and we can drive what we want for the most part.
We can execute really evil people.
we can own a variety of firearms and bear them.
It seems that these are the things that the rest of the world thinks we should not be able to do.. they are neurotic about telling us we must stop and be more like them.
I notice that I have to break a whole lot more laws these days than before tho.. just to have a little freedom.
I notice that I no longer want to go to big events or airports.. the lack of freedom is stifling.. it is oppressive and.. I see that most people don't even notice.
On can live away from the large population centers here tho and still live with a good degree of freedom.
lazs
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Too many resources spent pursuing these types of crimes, but hey, the prosecutor will be in next year claiming that he needs more money because his workload is up.
The jail is overcrowded, we need a new one.
criminals (http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/030108/loc_20080301305.shtml)
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Originally posted by lazs2
I would agree that we are vastly less free here than we were in th 50's 60's and 70's.
We are less free every day. we do have pretty cheap fuel and we can drive what we want for the most part.
We can execute really evil people.
we can own a variety of firearms and bear them.
It seems that these are the things that the rest of the world thinks we should not be able to do.. they are neurotic about telling us we must stop and be more like them.
I notice that I have to break a whole lot more laws these days than before tho.. just to have a little freedom.
I notice that I no longer want to go to big events or airports.. the lack of freedom is stifling.. it is oppressive and.. I see that most people don't even notice.
On can live away from the large population centers here tho and still live with a good degree of freedom.
lazs
"This world can turn me down
But I won't turn away
And I won't duck and run,
Cause I'm not built that way
When everything is gone
There is nothing left to fear
This world cannot bring me down
No cause I am already here.
"
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Shamus,
Did you read that article? You should learn about misdemeanors vs felonys. Felons go to state prison, not misdemeanor convictions.
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In S.C. if the judge gives you less then 90 days you go to jail, if he gives you 91 days or more you go to prison.