Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Rich46yo on February 29, 2008, 01:25:06 PM
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My boy was 9yo when I took him to Africa on his first hunt. Heres his first kill, a lovely Africa Blesbuck. http://www.mediafire.com/?k9g9ggayiwu
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Never understood the attraction in shooting something defenseless just for fun.
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Originally posted by indy007
Never understood the attraction in shooting something defenseless just for fun.
I guess I am of the same mind. I used to hunt ducks and pheasants, but they were always cleaned and eaten later. I guess I just don't understand the killing of animals for sport. I am not some tree hugger or anything, and I understand killing pests and rodents, but that is about as far as it goes with me.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
My boy was 9yo when I took him to Africa on his first hunt. Heres his first kill, a lovely Africa Blesbuck. http://www.mediafire.com/?k9g9ggayiwu
:aok Times that will never be forgotten . Quality time.
Some of my best memories are those of hunting trips with my Dad and Granddad.
I bet the trackers and skinners families enjoyed and appreciated the excess of meat also.
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I want to shoot a cheetah on the run.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I want to shoot a cheetah on the run.
Especially if he's running AT you LOL
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did you eat the Blesbuck, what did it taste like?
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Originally posted by indy007
Never understood the attraction in shooting something defenseless just for fun.
Then why are you here commenting?
You should see the life that chicken you had for dinner last night had. Hypocrite! I could try and explain wildlife management to you but no doubt youv seen one to many Disney movies.
I eat everything I shoot, or, like this Blesbuck, its consumed by others. Which BTW is the Law in South Africa. Im glad for you regulator you found a way to eat you ducks and pheasants while maintaining your high morale standards.:lol
It tastes like Chicken John. Yaknow? The KFC kind that lived its 6 mo life in a shoebox and then got its horrified little head chopped off. Or sometimes it tastes like beef. The kind they raise in the closet and then cut its terrified throat so regulator and Indy can east their cheeseburgers.
Yes Jackal hunting with my father are times Ill never forget. It was a simpler time in the 60's without all the highly moral anti-hunters. Im glad Im able to pass it on to my son.
Boy this world has metamorphosed into a real work of art. Human life aint worth a cent but hunting is "wrong". I removed the video. I dont feel like listening to some of you characters.
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i have eaten everything i have hunted and killed, was only rabbits and pheasants, no trophy kills there, but they tasted good.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I want to shoot a cheetah on the run.
Really?
Hmmm.............
I've heard there one of the few Cats that can be domesticated sorta?
cheetah ....... hmmmm kinda a cross between a cat and a dog?
Also hear they're gettin fewer and fewer.
Fast though!
Fastest land animal?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Especially if he's running AT you LOL
Not sure one would knowingly run AT you :lol
That not all that big but they are FAST.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I want to shoot a cheetah on the run.
I bet it catches you before you get the first shot off!
Bring Band~Aids... lots of them.
:D
Mac
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
My boy was 9yo when I took him to Africa on his first hunt. Heres his first kill, a lovely Africa Blesbuck. http://www.mediafire.com/?k9g9ggayiwu
It looks like Mediafire removed your image as being offensive, as it is now gone.
Some animal lovers here must have complained to them about it.
I guess we must learn how to respect "community standards".
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Originally posted by Regulator
I guess I am of the same mind. I used to hunt ducks and pheasants, but they were always cleaned and eaten later. I guess I just don't understand the killing of animals for sport. I am not some tree hugger or anything, and I understand killing pests and rodents, but that is about as far as it goes with me.
There is nothing more delicious than pheasant. They are gorgeous birds too.
Look how beautiful these ones I shot are:
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/hunting/3Birds_email.jpg)
It was almost a shame to yank their skin off when I cleaned them for cooking, as they looked so pretty.
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Originally posted by wrag
Fastest land animal?
Nah, the fastest land animal is a human in an F16! :lol
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Originally posted by wrag
I've heard there one of the few Cats that can be domesticated sorta?
I've heard over and over the exact opposite, mean SOB's, never to be trusted in a "domestic" situation even like a zoo...
1 main thing many don't know: cheetahs can not retract their claws, they are always out.
makes that little bit of "play" interesting.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Then why are you here commenting?
You should see the life that chicken you had for dinner last night had. Hypocrite! I could try and explain wildlife management to you but no doubt youv seen one to many Disney movies.
It tastes like Chicken John. Yaknow? The KFC kind that lived its 6 mo life in a shoebox and then got its horrified little head chopped off. Or sometimes it tastes like beef. The kind they raise in the closet and then cut its terrified throat so regulator and Indy can east their cheeseburgers.
I dated a woman a few years ago that was a vegetarian. Big mistake, but she was so good looking when I looked at her working out at our gym, that I could not resist. She could not cook worth anything, too, not even decent vegetarian meals. :(
Her two kids though ( she was divorced like me at the time ), were VEGANS! They were even more radical than she was.
Since there was never any decent food to eat at her house, I once made the huge mistake of bringing over some KFC for myself, so I would be able to eat. Her kids were not around, and she was OK with it. After finishing, I put the KFC box and other stuff in the garbage can in the kitchen.
Well, the daughter comes home ( dressed in her usual all black clothing and wearing all of her piercings ), and she finds the KFC box in the garbage! A most unholy loud scream then erupts from the kitchen! And then she comes rushing out of the kitchen with the garbage can in her arms, out the front door of the house, and flings the can out onto their front yard, spilling the contents all over the yard.
Then then SCREAMS at me what an utter MONSTER I am, and goes on and on about how KFC chickens are tortured and abused, and warns me to never, ever bring ANY chicken into their house again.
I stopped seeing her mother about 10 days after that event. Both of her kids absolutely hated me, especially after they found out that I was also a hunter, besides being an immoral meat eater.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I want to shoot a cheetah on the run.
I think that you would need both a helicopter and a shotgun in order to do that.
Although I suppose an M2 might be up to the job.
Neither of these techniques, though, is legal for hunting anywhere that I know of.
Besides, I believe that Namibia is now the only country left in Africa that allows any Cheetah hunting. And even if you managed to get one there, US law would prevent you from bringing the trophy back into the USA.
So it would be sort of pointless to spend a fortune to hunt such a rare animal, as you would not even be able to keep your trophy.
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Originally posted by indy007
Never understood the attraction in shooting something defenseless just for fun.
Our ancestors have been predators for 200,000 years. Killing is built into our DNA for the male of our species, as we have spent the vast majority of that time living as hunter/gatherers.
One local rancher recently had a cougar come in one night and kill 18 of his sheep, even though it only dragged off one to eat. Why did it kill the other 17??
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Originally posted by SIG220
There is nothing more delicious than pheasant. They are gorgeous birds too.
Look how beautiful these ones I shot are:
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/hunting/3Birds_email.jpg)
It was almost a shame to yank their skin off when I cleaned them for cooking, as they looked so pretty.
Good looking pheasants, I started hunting pheasants when I was 13, my dad would take me, bought me my first gun for it too, a Remington 4-10, I have 1 male & 1 Female mounted, the female is 1 of my dads.
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dont all dumbazz hunters say the same stupid thing after they shoot them.."oh their so butifull.." wanna play g.i.joe go to iraq . i hate hunters. i would never teach my kid to kill defenseless animals. but hey..what ever makes u feel like a man. me i get chicks..girls. nobody gets hurt nodody dies. try it sometime. maybe you found one to put up with cave man habits..but if u had many..killing animals would be the last thing on your mind. hunters are a special breed. killing is sex to them. i seen enuff hunting shows to know these guys just creamed thier cammies after a kill.. i feel sorry for your son. then they always bend down put the animals head on their lap for the big pose ! wow you shot an animal how many yards away with a high powered scope.the animal didnt have a chance..i'm so squealing impressed...hunters died out with supermarkets and convienient stores..you just like to kill. if u could kil people and get away with it u would..u aint crappin me...hunters need therapy.
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Originally posted by FTDEEP
dont all dumbazz hunters say the same stupid thing after they shoot them.."oh their so butifull.." wanna play g.i.joe go to iraq . i hate hunters. i would never teach my kid to kill defenseless animals. but hey..what ever makes u feel like a man. me i get chicks..girls. nobody gets hurt nodody dies. try it sometime. maybe you found one to put up with cave man habits..but if u had many..killing animals would be the last thing on your mind. hunters are a special breed. killing is sex to them. i seen enuff hunting shows to know these guys just creamed thier cammies after a kill.. i feel sorry for your son. then they always bend down put the animals head on their lap for the big pose ! wow you shot an animal how many yards away with a high powered scope.the animal didnt have a chance..i'm so squealing impressed...hunters died out with supermarkets and convienient stores..you just like to kill. if u could kil people and get away with it u would..u aint crappin me...hunters need therapy.
Interesting point of view, underscored with particularly poor spelling and grammar. Signs of someone with perhaps a limited education and limited knowledge of the world.
I just took up hunting again for exercise, I find it's good motivation. I also hunt pests, specifically rabbits and hares. I'd like to expand this to deer, pig, and maybe goats. All are considered significant pests in NZ. Rabbits for example destroy plant life, often creating soil problems such as erosion. They also create hazards for livestock (holes).
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A hunting thread sure brings out the folks who have no clue about nature, game management or food chain but sure are judgemental about something they know very little about.
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Originally posted by Maverick
A hunting thread sure brings out the folks who have no clue about nature, game management or food chain but sure are judgemental about something they know very little about.
to take a bit of issue with this, I admit up front I am not a hunter, and probably never could, I'm a wuss...
what about hunting of animals like Tigers, Rhinos, and other seriously deprived species?
I am in NO WAY an animal activist, should be known from my time here, hell I love a good PETA raid, I just suck at trolling, anyway, Tigers for example are just freakin cool! I'd love to have grand children some day to be able to see footage maybe of a live wild tiger doing what it does, something like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foUVt2d2AMM
but I really do believe if I live as long as most of my other family members there will not be a single tiger left in the wild.
Yeah it would be cool to be a hunter and bag a tiger, if they were plentiful like birds and ****, but this isn't fantasy land.
what are your thoughts on something like that?
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Originally posted by FTDEEP
hunters died out with supermarkets and convienient stores.
Best line in the whole jumbled up mess.
Sort of says it all doesn`t it? :)
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Originally posted by FTDEEP
dont all dumbazz hunters say the same stupid thing after they shoot them.."oh their so butifull.." wanna play g.i.joe go to iraq . i hate hunters. i would never teach my kid to kill defenseless animals. but hey..what ever makes u feel like a man. me i get chicks..girls. nobody gets hurt nodody dies. try it sometime. maybe you found one to put up with cave man habits..but if u had many..killing animals would be the last thing on your mind. hunters are a special breed. killing is sex to them. i seen enuff hunting shows to know these guys just creamed thier cammies after a kill.. i feel sorry for your son. then they always bend down put the animals head on their lap for the big pose ! wow you shot an animal how many yards away with a high powered scope.the animal didnt have a chance..i'm so squealing impressed...hunters died out with supermarkets and convienient stores..you just like to kill. if u could kil people and get away with it u would..u aint crappin me...hunters need therapy.
Guess what, alot of places if you didn't have hunting the population of an animal like Deer would get to large and they would eat through there food supply and then start starving off, you need people to go in and hunt to thin out the population so that doesn't happen, otherwise your gonna have Deer all over the place going into populated places in search of food.
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Originally posted by trax1
Guess what, alot of places if you didn't have hunting the population of an animal like Deer would get to large and they would eat through there food supply and then start starving off, you need people to go in and hunt to thin out the population so that doesn't happen, otherwise your gonna have Deer all over the place going into populated places in search of food.
thing is if 1/2 the board is "honest" as they profess simple evolution would say that is the way of nature creating balance.
so what is the excuse then for hunting?
me, I don't like venison, actually hate it, but I defend hunters here in WI, that is their right, and correct as you stated it. I don't hunt because I feel bad about killing something I don't intend on eating, and have a weak stomach.
Show me an evolutionist that A: supports sport hunting and B: claims the herd needs to be culled. If they say the herd needs to be culled, well that right there throws a giant monkey wrench in survival of the fittest, and natural balance. See in WI the chronic wasting disease in the deer (similar to mad cow disease) is rampant. If the natural evolution takes it course in a few years WI and all the surround states will not have a single healthy deer for possible consumption.
Umm oops I just opened a quagmire of ethical, moral, and survival dilemmas.
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The thing is it's a sport, not a popular one for some, but it is one, and in America if it's what you want to do it's your right to do it, theres alot of things I might not like, but if it's legal to do, it's your right to do it. It's like fishing, if you fish and don't throw it back then whats the difference from that and hunting, both sports.
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73,
First off I never did hunt for trophy, I hunted for meat and would have been happy with taking a doe rather than a buck.
I have done varmint hunting to help control the numbers of problem critters on my Uncle's ranch.
Trying to call on evolution in this case is hardly a good idea. Nature is no longer working alone, there is a tremendous population pressure of humans and their livestock. This throws nature off the cycle and requires human intervention to manage the herd and prevent over population or under population. Nature is quite content to let the population die out or cause significant problems for humans due to overpopulation. Even in a large park like Yellowstone, population issues are causing problems for the main park and surrounding area. Using hunting to manage the population keeps the main population healthy and lessens problems with human encroachment into their habitat or the other way around.
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but that is a direct contradiction to "evolution" as my understanding is.
according to the evolution party we are just another part of nature.
shouldn't we "naturally" balance ourselves with the planet, and the rest of Darwin's creatures?
Or are we supreme beings in that whole scheme? That part is missing I guess. We are so evolved we can do as we will and dictate how things on the planet will evolve. Exactly how does that work? Yes I know it's all great if we are passive tree bark eaters, and just go on allowing what may happen to happen.
Topics like this just really peak my curiosity as to what the thoughts are for someone who truly believes in evolution, and how they deal with "man's" actions. They claim global warming, and any other change in the ecology of the planet, yet ignore simple things like hunting and gathering, yet according to them that is the foundation of the simeon population.
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Well theres no "believing in evolution", its fact, even the last Pope admitted that, now I'm sure he still fit it into Gods plan.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Best line in the whole jumbled up mess.
Sort of says it all doesn`t it? :)
No, not really. I understand hunting and have enjoyed my time immensely hunting. It really would be hard to explain if you haven't done it, things like camraderie, atmosphere, skill and achievement. Many a morning I sat in a duck blind watching the sun rise, quietly enjoying the show Mother Nature provided, seeing wildlife around me. You can't understand how amazing that is if you haven't been out in the woods to see it.
Game management was mentioned, and in the world, without hunters keeping the deer herds trimmed at least a little, a tremendous more would die of starvation than die now of hunting and starvation.
Hunters pay to preserve the wildlife that others pretend to support, they do this through fees and wildlife preservation organizations almost always solely filled with membership of the hunting community. Many talk, hunters do.
Just because I don't hunt anymore doesn't mean I don't understand it, or respect it.
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Originally posted by Regulator
It really would be hard to explain if you haven't done it,.
Exactly, alot of the people who put down hunting have never tried it, now thats not to say that hunting is for everyone, its not, but why come into a thread about hunting only to put it down, start your own anti hunting thread. Now I'll say I don't believe in hunting rare endangered animals.
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This isn't a situation of sitting on high, it's looking at the population density, evaluating the food supply and tracking how the two of them will interact. In a manner of speaking, hunting is weeding the herd down vs waiting for the heard to starve it's numbers down. The press of humans has already disrupted the predator prey ballance. We can either let them spiral down to unhealthy population levels on cyclic pattern to eventual loss or do something to manage it.
In effect we are operating as part of the system and a part of nature but with a purpose not random happenstance.
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ok agree to disagree.... sorry I'd continue, but I am buzzed, pizza is done, and it's my birthday tomorrow.
sir but we will confront this another time I am sure, you know this place :rofl
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Then why are you here commenting?
You should see the life that chicken you had for dinner last night had. Hypocrite! I could try and explain wildlife management to you but no doubt youv seen one to many Disney movies.
I eat everything I shoot, or, like this Blesbuck, its consumed by others. Which BTW is the Law in South Africa. Im glad for you regulator you found a way to eat you ducks and pheasants while maintaining your high morale standards.:lol
It tastes like Chicken John. Yaknow? The KFC kind that lived its 6 mo life in a shoebox and then got its horrified little head chopped off. Or sometimes it tastes like beef. The kind they raise in the closet and then cut its terrified throat so regulator and Indy can east their cheeseburgers.
Yes Jackal hunting with my father are times Ill never forget. It was a simpler time in the 60's without all the highly moral anti-hunters. Im glad Im able to pass it on to my son.
Boy this world has metamorphosed into a real work of art. Human life aint worth a cent but hunting is "wrong". I removed the video. I dont feel like listening to some of you characters.
By any chance, did you get sand in your vagina while you were in Africa?
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I beleive in evolution.
That there chicken evolved into a darn good supper on my table :)
I enjoy city folks declaring how we rural peeps should live, hunt and eat. Thankfully, we've got em worfully outgunned here
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-shrug- .. all kinds of 'hunting'
I learned to 'hunt' when a farmer offered to pay me a nickel for each crow I killed.. his cornfields were bein over run by them one summer, had to bring him the carcass to collect .. I shot 96 of them that summer usin a Marlin lever action .22 rifle. I was in 8th grade then.
Personally .. I have met some folks who I laughed at when they told me how they 'hunt' their deer .. park the Blazer, get drunk, set up an ambush by a water hole and just blast the crap outta any dog-size deer that happen to walk in front of them and hope to God they dont shoot themselves in the process.
I recommended they try a road trip out to the South Fork of the Deerborn River, out near Lincoln, Montana. Track one about 2-3 miles thru fresh snow just after sunrise, try an get a decent shot at him from far enough out that you dont spook him, hang it, gut it, skin it, bury what you dont pack out, ..it's a days work if you're good enough to actually ..you know .. hunt.
Keep an eye out for the bears.. silly things think *you* are food or worse, a threat.
I shot my first last and only deer when I was 15 doing the above with my Dad. Honestly the 'hunt' drew me ..the killing shot was very anti-climatic.
It's much more satisfying to hunt a Spitfire in the clouds with a Mustang, or in WoW to hunt an orc, dragon, or someone on the opposite Battlegroup ..
..because .. well .. they all 'shoot back' and are just as much hunting you as you are hunting them :)
-GE aka Frank
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And exactly what does that have to do with the topic at hand? When given the chance, almost all predators ambush their prey. Why should men be any different?
I suppose stalking would appear more "manly" to some, but in many areas of the South, where logging has raped the natural terrain, stalking is no longer an option. The hardwood forests, with their open understory are a memory, and have been replaced with pine thickets overrun with blackberry brambles and thorns of every type extant. Trying to stalk deer amid that man-made mess is an exercise in futility.
Hunting from ambush is almost the only option remaining.
When I was a little shaver, things were much different. Men hunted the way their ancestors had for thousands of years: with dogs, and horses, and men pursuing deer and/or trying to outthink the prey. Many of the hunters were farm boys who were as tough as boot-leather. It was not unknown for one of them to run long distances to cut across the base of a curve that the prey was following to cut them off. You couldn't hunt like that and be a wuss...
Which reminds me of what a unique, symbiotic relationship hunters have with their dogs. Dog hunting for deer is rapidly dying out in the South...because of the work involved, because of social pressures of the sensitve elites of the modern world, and because of pressures by stand hunters who don't want the "natural movements" of their deer disturbed.
The ancient music of hounds on a trail will soon be a memory. It's a damn shame.
For the effete city-boys weeping on these boards about the cruelties of hunting I say...get a grip. You're trying to apply human morality to nature's largely amoral system. Predation is as much a part of the natural environment in today's world as it has been since the beginning of life on this planet.
Leave your concrete environs and return to the real world. You just might learn some age-old lessons: nature itself is cruel; all predators receive pleasure from the hunt AND from the kill; for good or ill, man is a part of the natural world, and has his own niche in it; man must assume the role of either predator or prey, and the modern urban notion of mankind as uninvolved bystander is patently ridiculous.
Now to dispel one last image: All hunters are not drunks, boors, or lazy, un-educated wife beaters. In fact, the opposite is the truth. They ...are one of the few groups of true-indivudualists left in the world. And, as strange as it may seem, it IS possible for a man to hunt and love the natural world and its denizens at the same time....and seek to preserve them.
Try to grasp the concept.
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Originally posted by SIG220
One local rancher recently had a cougar come in one night and kill 18 of his sheep, even though it only dragged off one to eat. Why did it kill the other 17??
the cougar did not want to leave any witnesses.
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I love hunting - its not (for me anyway) about always making the kill - its about being out there, in the wonders of Nature. I prefer stalking (way too impatient to sit in a hide - but to each their own). I've hunted since I was a teen (even in the UK, but nothing above a 12 ft pound air rifle - which is the legal limit here) This is useful only for wood pigeon and rabbits - edible, and a good ratting session as vermin control (dont suggest eating these). Where I live, there are 3 ways of controlling the rabbits, these are:
Shooting/Netting
Poisoning
Introduction of Mixy
I dont have a problem with shooting them, and yes, I eat all that I shoot (no, not all at the same time, but they freeze down lovely). I ensure I'm close enough that I can kill with a head shot (that way, if I miss the shot, I miss the rabbit - no wounded animals etc)
I hate poisoning - to a degree (why make any animal suffer that way) - but its a very effective pest control method.
I loathe mixy - not only because it affects where I shoot - but the symptoms, time to death of those infected etc just makes it inhumane.
I would love to hunt deer (and would definitely be eating all that I could from it - free range, natural grown - what could be better)
Rare animal hunting? No thanks, would much prefer being able to see them with my kids in the future, not in zoo's, but out where they should be - and that oddly enough, includes wolves etc in the states.
Just my 0.02p
Wurzel
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Originally posted by Regulator
No, not really. I understand hunting and have enjoyed my time immensely hunting. It really would be hard to explain if you haven't done it, things like camraderie, atmosphere, skill and achievement. Many a morning I sat in a duck blind watching the sun rise, quietly enjoying the show Mother Nature provided, seeing wildlife around me. You can't understand how amazing that is if you haven't been out in the woods to see it.
Game management was mentioned, and in the world, without hunters keeping the deer herds trimmed at least a little, a tremendous more would die of starvation than die now of hunting and starvation.
Hunters pay to preserve the wildlife that others pretend to support, they do this through fees and wildlife preservation organizations almost always solely filled with membership of the hunting community. Many talk, hunters do.
Just because I don't hunt anymore doesn't mean I don't understand it, or respect it.
You are speaking to the wrong poster.
Read the mess from which that quote came from.
I have hunted all of my life starting at a very early age.
The best of times, bar none.
What was meant by my comment was the fact that some people believe meat just appears by magic in the supermarket with not a thought on the process.
The meat fairy makes deliveries on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
It is also pretty clear that folks such as these have no idea, no a clue, as to what hunters do for wildlife in this country to begin with.
In my state there would be no deer population at all if it weren`t for the hunter and hunter funding.
Now we are known for our deer population.
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rich.. I salute you for your effort in giving your son an experience that he will take with him for the rest of his life. It is hard sometimes to even have a positive experience in todays world..
Forget what the moron anti bambi hunters say.. they eat "murder burgers" and wear leather and the whole nine yards yet have never seen how cows and chickens and livestock in general are raised and harvested... they would be shaky sick and confused.
they have never seen how animals die in the wild. They would kiss your butt for being part of such a merciful and honorable kill..
they are know nothing parrot mush heads. It is not you and your son who make me sick but these morons.
lazs
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Yesterday I was invited to go on a deer hunt with one of our vendors. Somewhere in Wyoming, East of Casper, in October. He specifically said he would get me close enough to use the MN 91-30 with its iron sights. Sounds like a fun trip, just not looking forward to carrying that rifle around for miles. Sucker is heavy.
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I'm not a hunter, its just not something my family has done. I also figure I'd be a little squeamish about it all. Not necessarily killing an animal, but certainly cleaning it up and preparing it to eat.
That said - I'm a carnivore and I'm in under no illusions over where some of the stuff I've eaten came from or how it was reared, so I'll never criticize someone who prefers their meat to be a little more - to use the popular term - 'organic'.
More importantly, I salute Rich46yo for doing these kinds of father / son activities with his kid. I'm guessing hunting instills discipline, patience and a fair amount of respect and those kinds of attributes are missing from far too many kids these days.
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"Hunting Humans" by the Misfits. Great tune!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGxOyIyJabA
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gee Shuckins.. did you miss nappy time today?
Try to grasp the concept yourself of the very first sentence I posted..
..here .. let me refresh your memory ..
'all kinds of hunting'
You can hammer every single word I say, don't change a single thing about what I learned growin up or how I regard 'hunting' as a skill, not a beer-gun-ambush-fest.
*You* can still go to the the area around Lincoln, Montana, and actually .. you know .. hunt.
With a dog or not.
Heck most years deer are regarded as varmints there.
-GE (just sayin, TM Pasha)
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Originally posted by SIG220
I dated a woman a few years ago that was a vegetarian. Big mistake, but she was so good looking when I looked at her working out at our gym, that I could not resist. She could not cook worth anything, too, not even decent vegetarian meals. :(
Her two kids though ( she was divorced like me at the time ), were VEGANS! They were even more radical than she was.
Since there was never any decent food to eat at her house, I once made the huge mistake of bringing over some KFC for myself, so I would be able to eat. Her kids were not around, and she was OK with it. After finishing, I put the KFC box and other stuff in the garbage can in the kitchen.
Well, the daughter comes home ( dressed in her usual all black clothing and wearing all of her piercings ), and she finds the KFC box in the garbage! A most unholy loud scream then erupts from the kitchen! And then she comes rushing out of the kitchen with the garbage can in her arms, out the front door of the house, and flings the can out onto their front yard, spilling the contents all over the yard.
Then then SCREAMS at me what an utter MONSTER I am, and goes on and on about how KFC chickens are tortured and abused, and warns me to never, ever bring ANY chicken into their house again.
I stopped seeing her mother about 10 days after that event. Both of her kids absolutely hated me, especially after they found out that I was also a hunter, besides being an immoral meat eater.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by gpwurzel
(even in the UK, but nothing above a 12 ft pound air rifle - which is the legal limit here)
Wurzel
Saddest thing I have read in this thread.
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I have bit on, and spit out, a lot of shot from Michigan ring-necked pheasants. My very best experience was with my good dog in soy bean fields and hedge rows. Ringed-necked pheasants did pretty well in MI, but not so much anymore... from what I hear.
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ftdeep is pretty typical of the pious butt heads that can't hunt.
rich takes his kid on a safari where he spends quality time and shows him nature and how to harvest your own food and another continent..
ftdeep shows his kid how to be promiscuous and screw as many women as possible with no honor and no learning.
Let's examine who is best for nature and the world. Has hunting harmed society more or has promiscuous behavior that teaches that women are toys?
if he is married.. the lessons he teaches his kids are even worse. I have never seen a man who bragged about his sexual conquests that was worth a damn.
lazs
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Originally posted by Regulator
Saddest thing I have read in this thread.
You can get "proper" rifles here, but with a hell of a lot of hassle (you need a damn good reason) and restriction. You can get shotguns, and centerfires, rim fires etc, but all require either a shotgun certificate, section 1 firearms certificate etc - so the only way to hunt without any form of certification - is with a sub 12ft pound air rifle. Obviously you can get air rifles above that level, but for those, in the UK, you need a FAC (fire arms certificate). Just the way this country is, and trust me, its getting worse.
Wurzel
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Originally posted by gpwurzel
You can get "proper" rifles here, but with a hell of a lot of hassle (you need a damn good reason) and restriction. You can get shotguns, and centerfires, rim fires etc, but all require either a shotgun certificate, section 1 firearms certificate etc - so the only way to hunt without any form of certification - is with a sub 12ft pound air rifle. Obviously you can get air rifles above that level, but for those, in the UK, you need a FAC (fire arms certificate). Just the way this country is, and trust me, its getting worse.
Wurzel
I prefer an air rifle because I hunt in our around livestock. It doesn't spook em and the effective range is much safer. Plus the rounds are dirt cheap and theres more fun involved in getting a rabbit within air rifle range :)
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Is PETA trolling our board now? ;)
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Originally posted by JB73
to take a bit of issue with this, I admit up front I am not a hunter, and probably never could, I'm a wuss...
what about hunting of animals like Tigers, Rhinos, and other seriously deprived species?
I am in NO WAY an animal activist, should be known from my time here, hell I love a good PETA raid, I just suck at trolling, anyway, Tigers for example are just freakin cool! I'd love to have grand children some day to be able to see footage maybe of a live wild tiger doing what it does, something like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foUVt2d2AMM
but I really do believe if I live as long as most of my other family members there will not be a single tiger left in the wild.
Yeah it would be cool to be a hunter and bag a tiger, if they were plentiful like birds and ****, but this isn't fantasy land.
what are your thoughts on something like that?
Your entire post is totally disingenuous, as there is no nation on the earth that still allows the legal hunting of tigers.
Perhaps in a rogue nation like Burma, it might still be possible. But I doubt even that could be arranged.
The same almost goes for Rhinos. Only South Africa and Namibia still allow any hunting of them, and it is extremely limited.
By far the two biggest game hunting countries in Africa used to be Kenya and Tanzania, back when they were still British colonies. That was the golden age of big game hunting in Africa.
But those days are long, long gone now. They are ancient history. Both Kenya and Tanzania have set up huge preserve areas for wild animals now, and have banned ALL hunting of any kind by foreigners. If you go visit either of those countries now, the only thing you can shoot the animals with is your camera.
Your post only illustrates that you don't even know what the real life world situation currently is for these species.
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Originally posted by SOB
By any chance, did you get sand in your vagina while you were in Africa?
Exactly what is your post meant to articulate here, other than a personal insult? Are those the only kinds of words that your brain is capable of manufacturing?
Posts like yours making anti-hunters look foolish or worse.
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I'm sorry Rich removed the film. I would have liked to see it. I am glad to see fathers taking their sons and daughters hunting. There may come a time when hunting is beyond the means or capabilities of most people.
Anyone who is against hunting on moral grounds is misguided. Hunters are by and large the ones responsible for game conservation . They are the ones who actually get out there and see first hand what's going on with the habitat. Hunters report what they see concerning pollution and other environmental concerns, as well as contribute millions of dollars toward actual conservation efforts. Conservation is science as well as common sense understanding of nature.
Hunting instills in youth respect of nature often passed along by older hunters, and strengthens such values as patience, responsibility and physical self discipline. I was taught to only kill what I was willing to eat. This rule means to keep focused on what I'm hunting. Around here that is deer and wild hogs. I eat these critters and there is no shortage of them.
The anthropomorphism (def: applying human characteristics to) of nature is a wonderful thing for movies. I enjoy these movies and most are very entertaining and even inspiring. Conversely, to apply human characteristics to animals in the wild is not respectful of nature. In reality, the wild of nature is not humane in any aspect. A well placed shot by a hunter is not a cruel action when you consider what it must be like for a wild animal to die naturally, either through starvation or old age. There is nothing dishonorable about legal hunting, and certainly nothing to be apologetic or go on the defensive about.
Hunters should stop substituting the words "harvest' or "catch" for "kill." There is nothing politically correct concerning hunting. Hunting is scientifically sound as a conservation practice. Hunting is an American tradition. Hunting is a legal sport enjoyed by many law abiding citizens. Legal hunting is fair chase.
One time a friend and I were at Whataburger at 4 AM eating breakfast before going hunting. A couple girls looked over from the next table and saw us in our hunting garb and said disdainfully, "Are y'all going hunting ?" They were trying to berate hunting. My friend looked over and said, "Yes we're going hunting. Y'all look like you've been out dancing." "Yes." was their timid reply. "Probably been drinking too?" says my friend. The girls couldn't respond after that. Was kinda funny because they realized the point made and even smiled and backed off with the attempted berating.
Les
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Originally posted by FTDEEP
me i get chicks..girls. nobody gets hurt nodody dies. try it sometime. maybe you found one to put up with cave man habits..but if u had many..killing animals would be the last thing on your mind.
Yes, but do all of these numerous chicks that you have explode when you make out with them??? Or do you ever see their feathers burst out into the air?? :lol :lol
Now being serious: My Dad grew up on a farm, and his Dad had taken him bird hunting when he was a boy. He then past it down to me, and I have now done the same with my own son.
Here is a photo of my son Todd, taken on that same pheasant hunt that I posted a photo from earlier:
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/lanceJOregon/hunting/Toddbird57b.jpg)
It was his 18th birthday that day, and he told me that the day's hunt was the best birthday present he had ever received.
Fortunately, he has since lost the facial hair.
_____________________________ _________
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Originally posted by SIG220
Exactly what is your post meant to articulate here, other than a personal insult? Are those the only kinds of words that your brain is capable of manufacturing?
Posts like yours making anti-hunters look foolish or worse.
It was meant to articulate nothing besides a personal insult. Did it appear that I was trying to convey something else? He got very whiney at the end there, and I responded to it. And yes, those are the only kinds of words my brain is capable of manufacturing...and only barely at that. My brain is a union shop, and most of the employees are near retirement and thus pretty useless.
One final thought (i don't think i could make any more than one more)... if you think my post looked foolish or worse, then you should probably just attribute it to me. Particularly considering that I spent the entire day today out target shooting some bolt action .17 HMR, .22 and .223 rifles, in preparation to use the former on defenseless sage rats near Unity in the next month or so. In other words, you're jumping to a baseless conclusion. ie: his sandy vagina has nothing to do with his views on hunting. I'm not entirely clear on where your sand was acquired, but I'm picking up that you're probably not too keen on discussing it with me.
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Originally posted by lazs2
ftdeep is pretty typical of the pious butt heads that can't hunt.
rich takes his kid on a safari where he spends quality time and shows him nature and how to harvest your own food and another continent..
ftdeep shows his kid how to be promiscuous and screw as many women as possible with no honor and no learning.
While I agree with your closing sentiment with regards to bragarts. Promiscuity is a skill that has an honor all it's own. And while I agree that hunting is an important survival skill. The survival skills learned hunting 'gina are at least as important and probably more practical in the modern world. Social networking skills are vital to prosper in the urban jungle.
It's kind of amusing that "survivalists" allways neglect the most practical and probably important skills. That is, universal methods to make money and acquiring human resources. We are nothing without friends.
I'm reminded of a humorous photo in a commando's autobiography. It was a photo of him in his kitchen kneading dough. The caption read "Making bread, a critical commando task."
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Back to the subject. My mother sent me a polaroid of my grandfather standing next to his kill in November '07. A wapiti (that's elk to you greenhorns) with a HUGE six point rack (that's 12 point to you greenhorns). My grandfather is 93 and he lives in the Colorado rockies. That's impressive because as any of you who have hunted in the rockies know, you can't do it from sitting in a car. And they aren't allowed to bait or feed like when they "hunt" in texas. You have to actually go out into the forested mountains and use tracking and hunting skills.
I would upload the pic if somebody could point me to some relatively uncomplicated webspace.
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Originally posted by Suave
That's impressive because as any of you who have hunted in the rockies know, you can't do it from sitting in a car. And they aren't allowed to bait or feed like when they "hunt" in texas. .
I hear a lot about they and their cousins them, but I don`t know any personally. :)
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Originally posted by SOB
It was meant to articulate nothing besides a personal insult. Did it appear that I was trying to convey something else? He got very whiney at the end there, and I responded to it. And yes, those are the only kinds of words my brain is capable of manufacturing...and only barely at that. My brain is a union shop, and most of the employees are near retirement and thus pretty useless.
One final thought (i don't think i could make any more than one more)... if you think my post looked foolish or worse, then you should probably just attribute it to me. Particularly considering that I spent the entire day today out target shooting some bolt action .17 HMR, .22 and .223 rifles, in preparation to use the former on defenseless sage rats near Unity in the next month or so. In other words, you're jumping to a baseless conclusion. ie: his sandy vagina has nothing to do with his views on hunting. I'm not entirely clear on where your sand was acquired, but I'm picking up that you're probably not too keen on discussing it with me.
It was also a very senseless and inane remark that you made, and was offensive in the language it used too.
And that applies no matter who you are.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Then why are you here commenting?
Because I think hunters are funny? I don't know anybody else willing to smear themselves with animal urine or hide in a box for hours on end.
I don't care that people hunt, I understand wildlife management (my mother worked for the s.c. wildlife department for years)... but the crap you have to go through just to get some gamey meat (that most I know don't even eat) makes me think they've lost their minds.
The "teaching kids to respect nature" bit is really funny though. I, personally, wouldn't think respect is about finding the most beautiful specimen of something you can... and blasting holes in it so you can stick its head on a wall. Don't be a puss, and call it was it is. You're harvesting trophies, and that's it. What's the difference between a bunch of cows at a slaughterhouse and deer fenced into a hunting lease? Not much besides distance... except nobody wants the cow head on their wall.
edit: The only manly hunting is going after something double your body-weight with a knife.
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indy.. I like the taste of hamburger and steak and I like the taste of elk and venison. Have you ever seen how livestock are harvested? perhaps that would be a good nature lesson for kids?
Have you ever seen how animals die in the wild? I'm sure you have seen some nature programs.
lazs
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suave.. I really think that hunting women is a waste of time and makes you look like a fool to everyone around you. In the end.. the conquest mentality is bad for everyone around you including yourself.
With minimal effort you can find women.. if they don't like who you are they can leave and some other one will take their place.. that works a lot better for me than some elaborate scheme and pretending to be someone or something you are not. I think if you teach a kid that promiscuous stuff that you are damaging him.
survival? if you have the warm fire and the guns.. the women will come. If you are worth a damn.. they will stay.
lazs
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Originally posted by SIG220
It was also a very senseless and inane remark that you made, and was offensive in the language it used too.
And that applies no matter who you are.
I know, I'm a terrible person, and I hope Rich can recover. Though, something tells me he'll be OK after being insulted by some random 'tard on the Internet. And if the word vagina offends you, I'm sorry. That would really be a shame.
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I have no problem with hunters eating what they kill. Its the poachers and types that kill lions etc just for the thrill I have no interest in.
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Originally posted by SOB
I know, I'm a terrible person, and I hope Rich can recover. Though, something tells me he'll be OK after being insulted by some random 'tard on the Internet. And if the word vagina offends you, I'm sorry. That would really be a shame.
I only hope you can recover from that strenuous finger wag. Maybe a walk on the beach with Airhead?
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Originally posted by indy007
The "teaching kids to respect nature" bit is really funny though. I, personally, wouldn't think respect is about finding the most beautiful specimen of something you can... and blasting holes in it so you can stick its head on a wall. Don't be a puss, and call it was it is. You're harvesting trophies, and that's it. What's the difference between a bunch of cows at a slaughterhouse and deer fenced into a hunting lease? Not much besides distance... except nobody wants the cow head on their wall.
Ha, I'm not that fond of having stuffed dead animals in my home, but if I had a cabin, I might just need to have the head of a Holstein stuffed and mounted on the wall. Would it be in bad taste to also mount the udder lower down on the wall?
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Originally posted by midnight Target
I only hope you can recover from that strenuous finger wag. Maybe a walk on the beach with Airhead?
Maybe, but I think I'm gonna need some hand holding time and a back rub too.
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No interest in stuffed animals but my dentist who is a great guy has a bunch of em.. he is a 7 or 8 time boone and crockett record holder and he doesn't eat the meat.. he donates it. He also takes underprivlidged kids for hunts with his meager spare time.. he also buys homes and rents them to deserving people for far under the going rate. often taking a big loss.
lazs
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There is a mounted cougar, and a pronghorn head in our office. The cougar likes to dress up for Christmas, and pronghorns are great for stringing lights on.
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Originally posted by lazs2
indy.. I like the taste of hamburger and steak and I like the taste of elk and venison. Have you ever seen how livestock are harvested? perhaps that would be a good nature lesson for kids?
Have you ever seen how animals die in the wild? I'm sure you have seen some nature programs.
lazs
Every kid should visit a slaughterhouse. Didn't phase my love of tasty meat one bit. I rather enjoy venison... I'm just not willing go through the hassle and mess of killing it myself... same goes for elk, alligator, shark... and especially bison. I very rarely eat hamburger anymore, almost always substituted for bison meat. Tastier, healthier, about the same price at the grocery store. Everybody would make the switch if they knew about it, and it were convenient for them like it is for me.
..and you can't compare nature programs to hunting. The only time that will ever be applicable, is when you see a hunter run down a deer on foot and tear its throat out with his teeth. That's why, imho, it's not a "manly" activity. The only real challenge is the patience required... and hell you get more practice at patience just sitting in Houston traffic. It's just... too risk-free to be really "manly". You're in more danger from drunk hunters than from the animals.
There's a group of CEOs that get together annually. They go hunt a single bear. They do it with spears. That's pretty damn dangerous, and therefore, manly. High-powered rifles against something that doesn't even have opposable thumbs, definately not-manly.
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Originally posted by SOB
Ha, I'm not that fond of having stuffed dead animals in my home, but if I had a cabin, I might just need to have the head of a Holstein stuffed and mounted on the wall. Would it be in bad taste to also mount the udder lower down on the wall?
If you rig the udder to dispense milk, I want to see it.
I'll bring beer.
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indy.. do you think that it is more humane to run down a deer and rip it's throat out or to put a 30 caliber bullet through it's heart and lungs?
One of the things that seperate us from the animals is the use of tools. A gun is a tool for harvesting meat.. venison is meat. I suppose we could dig a pit and fill it full of spikes or corner a deer and spear it to death but.. What's the point?
If you can hunt.. you have learned a valuable skill and you are out in nature. Not everyone can do it.
I haven't in years.. I do my hunting at safeway these days. I still love to be outdoors tho. I am not gonna make friends with the critters tho and end up as bear poop like some of the morons who get all mushy about wild critters.
lazs
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Originally posted by SIG220
Our ancestors have been predators for 200,000 years. Killing is built into our DNA for the male of our species, as we have spent the vast majority of that time living as hunter/gatherers.
One local rancher recently had a cougar come in one night and kill 18 of his sheep, even though it only dragged off one to eat. Why did it kill the other 17??
yes, but i disagree with all those fat losers who sit their with their gun and blast loads of animals for fun to make them feel like a man.
i've killed a lot of stuff, mostly to eat (damn, pheasants really are some of the tastiest meat around, imagine a really rich taste and textured chicken/duck mix). that said though, anything i've killed i want to kill in the quickest most humane way possible. it's our responsibility not only to protect the animals from excess harm and pain, but also to protect these animals as resources for future generations. shooting things just as a trophy i do have a problem with. the animal should be shot for a good reason.
a lot of hunters don't think about their responsibility to nature, which is a big problem. i agree however that there is a primitive urge in all predators to kill.
i can't stand vegetarians, where are they supposed to get their protein, quorn? lolz.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Best line in the whole jumbled up mess.
Sort of says it all doesn`t it? :)
If me and my brother do not kill some of the heard of deer on our land, they will over populate the limited area. Then we will see the harmful effects of overpopulation like we did in the mid-80's. Not a good sight to see animals starving to death, would rather cull a few here and there to help them manage what they are incapable of understanding. Population management has nothing to do with grocery stores.:aok
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Originally posted by lazs2
indy.. do you think that it is more humane to run down a deer and rip it's throat out or to put a 30 caliber bullet through it's heart and lungs?
One of the things that seperate us from the animals is the use of tools. A gun is a tool for harvesting meat.. venison is meat. I suppose we could dig a pit and fill it full of spikes or corner a deer and spear it to death but.. What's the point?
If you can hunt.. you have learned a valuable skill and you are out in nature. Not everyone can do it.
I haven't in years.. I do my hunting at safeway these days. I still love to be outdoors tho. I am not gonna make friends with the critters tho and end up as bear poop like some of the morons who get all mushy about wild critters.
lazs
Either way it's gonna die, so I'm not particular. I know which one I'd pay to see though.
On your topic of tools, well, we figured out how to build fences and create sustainable agriculture... so harvesting meat is already simple and efficient. So simple and efficient you don't need a spike pit OR a gun. What's the point when you can just run to the store? There isn't one either way. Thus, if you're going to hunt, drop the easy-mode crap, work for it, and make it a legitamately manly sport :)
Hmm, could be that I personally enjoy the fight much more than the win.
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Just curious, where did the manly aspect of hunting come into discussion? Never saw where anyone posting here said hunting is manly. Imo hunting is good for women too.
The manly aspect where hunting is concerned comes from a father spending time with their children enjoying the wonders of nature. The hunt is enjoyable without killing anything. After all, it's called hunting, not killing. And this is one of the lessons learned concerning respect of nature, that you don't shoot up the woods killing everything in sight.
The true spirit of hunting is probably best referenced to hunting practices by native American Indians, who had great respect for the game they hunted. They wasted no part of an animal they killed, and held an animal's spirit in high regard. This is the right way to go about hunting, an ideal to be upheld. Respect comes from killing what you need, eating what you kill and not littering up the woods.
It is true that nature can be enjoyed by hiking and camping out, but there is a spiritual connect with the taking of a life that causes introspection into the ethics surrounding such an event, and from which compassion is learned. This is the value of hunting, and yes, one of the things which are good in a man (or a woman.)
I tried Googling what hunting teaches children, and found interesting results, though nothing I didn't already know or predict. The majority of articles praised hunting as very good for kids. Hunting is endorsed by most educators and psychologists as valuable for teaching ethics and responsibility to children, and has had good results when dealing with kids in dysfunctional settings. The one negative article I found was a letter to the editor of the NY Times. This speaks for itself.
The concept of manliness and doing what is manly changes over time. When you're young, manliness is measured by physical abilities it seems. This is why as an adult entering old fartdom, I have a hard time grasping the idea of hunting as manly. Or more to the point, why detractors of hunting think hunters think of themselves as manly. I've hunted many years and never did I consider it manly, just fun mostly and perhaps hard work at times. I've not met anyone who took up hunting because it was manly. Could this concept be a media perpetuated stereotype? Along with beer guzzling rednecks blowing away songbirds left and right? This is what they want you to believe.
I could be wrong. Do any hunters here hunt because it's manly? Please speak up.
Marlon Brando probably said it best in The Godfather. "A man who does not spend time with his family cannot call himself a man." - Don Corleone
Les
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Top five signs you’ve hired the wrong hunting guide:
5. Your guide blows into big sea shell horn to attract game and a bunch of Vikings show up instead.
4. Your guide is completely outfitted with "Barney" camping equipment.
3. As you close in on a deer, your guide whispers in an Elmer Fudd voice, "Be vehhwey vehhwey quiet."
2. He calls trees by their first names.
And the number one sign you’ve hired the wrong hunting guide:
1. He is prone to scream, "Run, Bambi, RUN!"
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Originally posted by Leslie
The true spirit of hunting is probably best referenced to hunting practices by native American Indians, who had great respect for the game they hunted. They wasted no part of an animal they killed, and held an animal's spirit in high regard. This is the right way to go about hunting, an ideal to be upheld. Respect comes from killing what you need, eating what you kill and not littering up the woods.
This is a perpetuation of the "Noble Savage" myth, and a lie. Humans hunt things to extinction. Some cultures simply have the technology to do it more effeciently. See a place who's name translates to "Head Smashed In". Entire herds were driven over the cliff, far, far more than could be eaten by the entire tribe in the amount of time it would take for the rest of the carcasses to rot and become useless.
The concept of manliness and doing what is manly changes over time. When you're young, manliness is measured by physical abilities it seems. This is why as an adult entering old fartdom, I have a hard time grasping the idea of hunting as manly. Or more to the point, why detractors of hunting think hunters think of themselves as manly. I've hunted many years and never did I consider it manly, just fun mostly and perhaps hard work at times. I've not met anyone who took up hunting because it was manly. Could this concept be a media perpetuated stereotype? Along with beer guzzling rednecks blowing away songbirds left and right? This is what they want you to believe.
You ever met my g/f's family? :lol It's not the media that perpetuates stereotypes. In fact, I can't remember ever seeing media showing hunting in a negative light, at least not on my news.. unless you count Dick Cheney, which I don't. The news likes to focus on the indian-spiritual-mumbo-jumbo too.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
If me and my brother do not kill some of the heard of deer on our land, they will over populate the limited area. Then we will see the harmful effects of overpopulation like we did in the mid-80's. Not a good sight to see animals starving to death, would rather cull a few here and there to help them manage what they are incapable of understanding. Population management has nothing to do with grocery stores.:aok
Exactly.
As I said earlier, at one time in my state deer were at the end of the road.
Overpopulation, with no hunting to speak of caused inferior stock which in turn brought on sickness and disease.
The programs put in place and paid for with hunter`s money and support now has us back to one of the best whitetail herds in the nation.
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Originally posted by indy007
This is a perpetuation of the "Noble Savage" myth, and a lie. Entire herds were driven over the cliff, far, far more than could be eaten by the entire tribe in the amount of time it would take for the rest of the carcasses to rot and become useless.
I am not sure where you got your information from but it is way off base. The plains indians to which you refer, had many techniques for saving meat and used nearly the entire animal they killed in one capacity or the other. They dried their meat(called pemmican), which is much like beef jerky via a modern dehydrator. Pemmican could be stored to eat later without spoiling. They also used the hide for robes to keep warm and for making mattresses. The skin made parfleches and the bones were used as tools and weapons. Buffalo horns were used as bowls and spoons and the stomach was used as a water pouch or a cooking pot. Buffalo hair was stuffed into rawhide and made into game balls. The hooves became rattles. Even the tail was used as a fly swatter.
Originally posted by indy007
The news likes to focus on the indian-spiritual-mumbo-jumbo too.
It was the "Indian-spiritual-mumbo-jumbo" that allowed Indians to respectfully enjoy the offerings of the land for thousands of years before the non-"indian-spiritual-mumbo-jumbo" types came in and wiped the buffalo almost to extinction in less than 100 years. I'm not saying that I believe the "spirtual-mumbo-jumbo" stuff was true, just that it kept the indians in deep respect for mother earth, which is where we all should be.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I am not sure where you got your information from but it is way off base.
Archeaology is fun. I didn't argue about what they used from the single kills. I pointed out that they did kill more than was neccessary. Phsyical evidence shows this to be true. It's not exclusive to the Indians either, and has happened all over the world, to the extent some noble savages drove themselves into extinction. It's about population demands and basic technology like sustainable agriculture, not some romantic notion about respecting nature. Try "The Science of Good & Evil" by Dr. Michael Shermer, then hit me up with a PM or email if you'd like to discuss it. This thread has already been horribly derailed.
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the indians hunted and polluted a spot until they could no longer use it. they were nomads because of that.. fortunately.. they killed each other and never developed any real medical skills so they died like flies.. this is not exactly noble but it worked to keep the population down.
As for manly.. I concur that it is not a matter of what is manly or not but just getting out in the woods and harvesting your own food would by nature be more "manly" than putting on your makeup and suit and riding in a taxi to the ballet.
lazs
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Originally posted by indy007
not some romantic notion about respecting nature.
I would have to disagree to a point on this, just for the sake of romantics. Although there is evidence of what you suggested, the largest and most notable tribes of the plains indians did in fact use only what they needed later on as their way of life stabilized. Once their weaponry evolved to a practical level, and the appearance of the use of horses, the "hunt" was romanticized into their culture of spiritualism. Shooting buffalo with a bow, form the bare back of a horse became a social event as well as part of establishing "clout" among warriors. As far as the mass killings(cliff stampede's, chasing them into deep snow, chasing them into rivers, and chasing them into corals or natural "traps"), these were found to have happened early on in the growth of the plains indians development. As far as can be told by the findings, the indians did in fact take the meat and hides, but had no use for the many bones and horns that were left. After all, how many spoons, bowls and tools do you need, lol.
To make a point, the indians were definitely more aware of how the depletion of resources affected their environment as compared to the more advanced European civilization that overwhelmed them. They were extremely in touch with the environment and were some of the earliest voices of environmentalism. Of course, it is easier to be environmentally concience when you "own" thousands of square miles of natural habitat.
Originally posted by indy007
Try "The Science of Good & Evil" by Dr. Michael Shermer, then hit me up with a PM or email if you'd like to discuss it. This thread has already been horribly derailed.
sounds like a good read. Thanks.
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I wonder if I could get away with Tiger hunting....
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Mmmmmmmmm Pheasant.
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"The amount of time a man spends killing for sport is inversely related to his noodle size." -Sigmund Freud
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Originally posted by indy007
If you rig the udder to dispense milk, I want to see it.
I'll bring beer.
Sometimes, some people come up with brilliant ideas. THIS is one of those times!
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Originally posted by indy007
Never understood the attraction in shooting something defenseless just for fun.
The only defenseless animal I've ever seen are guinea pigs. All the others I've seen and/or hunted were not helpless by any stretch.
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Originally posted by Choocha
"The amount of time a man spends killing for sport is inversely related to his noodle size." -Sigmund Freud
Freud never made such a comment. You post is a complete hoax.
While Freud did make many contributions to psychology, he was also a heavy cocaine user, and even committed suicide.
It seems to me, that he himself was far too obsessed with sex.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
I wonder if I could get away with Tiger hunting....
You would want to risk spending time in prison in a third world country? Have you no idea how bad the prison conditions are in those lands? In Thailand, for example, the penalty for killing a Tiger is 4 years in prison. Heck, I would not even want to risk jail time in a country like Thailand.
Or would you like to be brought before an Islamic court in a country like Indonesia, and get a taste of Islamic justice?? I wonder how they would treat an American in prison??
Assuming that you somehow could avoid local law enforcement, if you got caught trying to sneak your trophy back into the USA, the Federal government would:
1) Seize your trophy
2) Imprison you for 6 months and/or fine you $12,000
Of course, the above does not take into account what it would cost for you to hire an attorney, which is pretty doggone expensive these days. Hopefully you have enough money saved for your children's college education, that you could take their college money and use it to pay for everything.
Or if not, at least have enough equity in your home so you could sell it, and become homeless, in order to pay your bills.
In any event, you would have to also somehow figure out a way to smuggle it back into the USA.
P.S. -- Anyone caught assisting you in smuggling the trophy into the country would face the very same penalties, as they would also be breaking the law. So good luck in getting any help from anyone.
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Originally posted by indy007
Never understood the attraction in shooting something defenseless just for fun.
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Originally posted by Major Biggles
yes, but i disagree with all those fat losers who sit their with their gun and blast loads of animals for fun to make them feel like a man.
i've killed a lot of stuff, mostly to eat (damn, pheasants really are some of the tastiest meat around, imagine a really rich taste and textured chicken/duck mix). that said though, anything i've killed i want to kill in the quickest most humane way possible. it's our responsibility not only to protect the animals from excess harm and pain, but also to protect these animals as resources for future generations. shooting things just as a trophy i do have a problem with. the animal should be shot for a good reason.
a lot of hunters don't think about their responsibility to nature, which is a big problem. i agree however that there is a primitive urge in all predators to kill.
i can't stand vegetarians, where are they supposed to get their protein, quorn? lolz.
Tofu, is the protein source of choice for vegetarians. Have you ever tasted it? Yuck!!!
There is nothing wrong sitting around and shooting a bunch of varmints, as long as it is not done to great excess.
I lost my best ever Rock Chuck hunting spot in Eastern Oregon many years ago. I only had 3 great seasons hunting there. It was the biggest Rock Chuck colony that I have ever come across. There were huge rock piles that made ideal habitat for them. The landowner also let several other hunters hunt there too. Yet, each year we had plenty of animals to shoot at. We never made any attempt to try to wipe them out, or just shoot for a huge body count.
Well, that all ended, when an enterprising fellow from Portland convinced the landowner that he could make money off of the varmint hunting, instead of giving it away for free to sportsmen. So he signed a lease with the owner, obtaining all exclusive hunting rights to his farm that the colony resided on.
He then advertised on the Internet, and charged individuals several hundred dollars a day, for an ultimate varmint hunting experience. He had clients flying in from all over the USA to Oregon, to go hunt on that farm that I used to shoot on.
Well, after only two years of this private hunting concession in operation, the rockchucks were totally wiped out. Not a single one was left. Pregnant females were shot early in the year before they could give birth, and later in the Spring when the little babies were out in the field, they even shot them too. Those were things that I would never, ever do.
Anyway, the landowner ended up very happy. He totally got rid of his rockchuck problem ( they would consume the entire corner of that section of his alfalfa crop each year ), and also got paid thousands of dollars to allow it to happen.
The vast majority of hunters are good sportsmen. But there are some that are idiots, and they give the sport a bad name.
Much like the idiot operators of that hunting concession in Alabama, where that 11 year old boy shot the biggest hog on record, weighing in at 1,150 lbs. It created quite a stir for such a young kid to kill such a huge animal, with only a handgun ( although a very big one in .500 S&W Magnum ).
However, it was later revealed that another farming family had raised it as a pet, and that it was actually totally domesticated. They had to sell it after it got so huge, and these guys then used it to make a lot of money by offering it as a "hunt" that could be purchased. So a story that initially made hunters really proud of the boy's accomplishment, turned very, very sour once the truth was finally revealed.
Here is a photo of the kid with his pig:
(http://lh3.google.com/_VFmvDdpUtv4/RliK1Ky-H2I/AAAAAAAAAZ0/j4UK_rNgYms/s800/D8PBKB5G0.jpg)
It was featured prominently in the press last May and June. At first there was another controversy, as people thought the photos were not real, and had been doctored to exaggerate the size. However, that was quickly discounted and proven to be false. The hog really was that big.
The true story was actually much worse. For the reason why it was so gigantic was because it had lived its entire life on a farm, and had been fed so much food. No wild hog has ever come close to becoming that large in size.
Anyway, it is folks like that who are the ones really harming the image of hunting.
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Originally posted by Druss
The only defenseless animal I've ever seen are guinea pigs. All the others I've seen and/or hunted were not helpless by any stretch.
That is oh so very true. Any animal that is hunted has natural defenses. It is only in places where hunting is completely banned ( such as in Yosemite Park ), where you can see huge buck deer and coyotes being comfortable being around people.
I've shot many rockchucks after they became alerted to my presence. But it was always awfully tough. Some even forced me to take head shots in order to kill them, as they would only peak their head out over the rock a little bit.
It is rare to have an animal in nature be real dumb. Rabbits are about the only animals that I have ever shot that sometimes have behaved incredibly stupid. It is almost like nature designed them to be food for other animals.
Crows, Magpies, and even Turkey Vultures have a feast whenever I go varmint hunting. It is almost like the dinner bell is being rung for them. They often will not even wait, and come down and feast while I am still shooting at other animals nearby.
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Originally posted by indy007
Either way it's gonna die, so I'm not particular. I know which one I'd pay to see though.
If you were the one doing the dying, though, I bet your preference would be different. Many prey animals in nature live for awhile while the predator is actually consuming them. There is no natural law that says that an animal has to be dead before it can be eaten.
On your topic of tools, well, we figured out how to build fences and create sustainable agriculture... so harvesting meat is already simple and efficient.
Then rodents will intrude onto your property and start eating all of the alfalfa that you are raising in order to feed your livestock. And you will then gladly invite me onto your land to shoot them.
:lol :lol :lol
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Originally posted by SIG220
If you were the one doing the dying, though, I bet your preference would be different. Many prey animals in nature live for awhile while the predator is actually consuming them. There is no natural law that says that an animal has to be dead before it can be eaten.
Didn't say there was. I just know I'd be a lot more entertained by some guy trying to run down a deer on foot and take it on with his bare hands than him hiding in a blind for 5 hours sipping JD.
Then rodents will intrude onto your property and start eating all of the alfalfa that you are raising in order to feed your livestock. And you will then gladly invite me onto your land to shoot them.
:lol :lol :lol
I like my varmit eradicating like I like my fishing... with a judicious use of high explosives.
(http://www.carlspackler.com/archive/cs_057.jpg)
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So.. umm ..
..who's up for a Tiger Hunt in Iraq?
We can start in downtown Bagdad!
(imagines a bunch of guys with high powered scoped rifles in hawaiin shirts, sweats, mebbe a 'Death to bambi' T-shirt 'sneakin' thru the center of downtown Bagdad)
Ok ok .. prolly a bad idea.
-GE -very evil grin-
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survival? if you have the warm fire and the guns.. the women will come. If you are worth a damn.. they will stay.
lazs
Truest statement I've heard to date on this board regarding women.
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Hunting is the only protection some animals have. If proper wildlife management is applied, breeding populations of animals can be maintained.
The worst thing that can happen to an animal is that it has no value to humans. It then loses its habitat and eventually goes extinct.