Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Rich46yo on March 01, 2008, 04:05:03 PM
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Who flies Nikis full time, or a lot? Ive only tooled around in the TA with them but they seem to have a lot to offer. Im a little surprised I dont see them in the air more. Back when I was in bombers full time any fighter with a 4 cannon package had to be treated with respect. Are the Nikis dissed? Is the Japanese set dissed?
How do they stack against the other turners? And any other input is appreciated.
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The Niki isn't quite as good as the Spit 16. That said, it is still usually in the top 4 as far as kills go. Those four are some combination of P51, La-7, Niki, Spit.
As far as where it stacks up... it is similar to a Spit 9. The 4 cannons have roughly the same firepower as other 2 Hizooka / 4 20mm birds so it can usually kill with a snapshot. It rolls marginally slower than the Spit 9, but turns a little tighter.
It is a marginally less effective Spit, with a whole lot more ammo.
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I flew one the other day in a mission. I didn't care for it. The roll rate seems slow, accel. seems slow, the balistics are horrid. Only nice thing I can say is it has alot of ammo and a very nice looking plane. As far as Jap planes go the KI-84 is a way better plane over all.
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The Niki is very versitile for those who primarily fly "attack" type sorties. The large cannon ammo load makes it an effective building buster, especially for those times when ord is down. Without the large ord loadout, most .50cal armed planes are frustratingly poor town killers vs. cannon armed aircraft.
The added advantage vs. say a 110 is that the Niki is an adequate fighter. It is too slow and the guns have too poor balistics to call it a true "air superiority" type fighter like the LA7s, Ponies or 190s are often used as. It turns better than most of those aircraft, which lets you get out of the way of BnZ attacks, but you will never expect to actually catch them if they maintain their E.
Bottom line, I find it to be a good "jack of all trades" aircraft, but most late war planes can find an advantage against it to exploit.
My $0.02.
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My first kills were in a Niki :D
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Wow. I don't like the Niki much, but stroker and urchin above are really giving it a terrible rap.
As to weapon power, look at the fighter weapon rounds comparison chart at netaces.org. Using the .50 cal hitting power as base 1, the each of the Niki's Type 99 Mk 2 has a relative hitting power of 3.297222. For all four together, we will roughly say that the relative hitting power is 13.
This is FAR more powerful than the 2x Hispano and 4x Browning combination. Roughly, and the numbers are there on the chart if anyone wants to do more exact math, but roughly the combined relative hitting power of 2x Hispano and 4x Browning is 9.
The ballistics of the Type 99 Mk2 also cannot be described as "horrid". They are poorer than hispano's, yes, but far superior to German or Russian 20mm.
As to roll rate, yes admittedly it is terrible, but rudder can help you kick into a roll very well in a Niki.
The Niki has a very good climb rate, and can hang in the vert longer than people will expect. It is a little tougher than Spits, and a large advantage it has over the Ki84 is in the dive.
No, it's not an absolutely superb plane, but it's a little better than you guys above make it out to be.
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I fly the nikki alot. My favorite plane at this time (since I am relatively newto the a game) is the Spit9 though (maybe these 2 are my favorites because they are so close in performance, I never really thought about it before). I usually up the nikki when I need a little more turning ability and firepower. Those flaps are awesome since they deploy at higher speeds than most of the plane set. Which is probably where the little difference in turning ability over the spit9 comes from. All in all I think the nikki versatile plane to fly because yes itis a very nice town buster but it also carries 2 500kg bombs which will each take alot of the gvs, and it also doubles as n effective fighter (and for the record I don't ho in one unless it is at least a 3 on 1 fight or you have repeatedly attempted ho's on me).
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9 out of 10 guys I come across in the N1k HO their balls off. They're the sort of guys that hold onto the trigger and punch the nose down in a desperate attempt to get you in a blind head-on shot whilst you dive and evade.
That usually means that they're particularly easy to dispatch because the people flying them are total knobs.
I think N1ks are worse than La7s because typically it's the 'advanced loser noob' that flies them. They've been flying for long enough to want to step out of the La7 so they get in a N1k and HO away because they haven't learnt any ACM yet.
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Originally posted by Xasthur
9 out of 10 guys I come across in the N1k HO their balls off. They're the sort of guys that hold onto the trigger and punch the nose down in a desperate attempt to get you in a blind head-on shot whilst you dive and evade.
That usually means that they're particularly easy to dispatch because the people flying them are total knobs.
I think N1ks are worse than La7s because typically it's the 'advanced loser noob' that flies them. They've been flying for long enough to want to step out of the La7 so they get in a N1k and HO away because they haven't learnt any ACM yet.
Are you this big a jerk off in real life? Hold on guys while I put this nitwit on ignore. There, now maybe we can have a conversation without anyone putting anyone down.
I took a Niki out tonight and actually did OK in it. I hung it up verticle and forced a spit to drop out. Unfortunatly I lost sight of him and didnt exploit it. One thing Ive noticed is the Niki doesnt feel real good in the hands in a dive.
Hey Xasthur? You suck!
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:rofl
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Originally posted by Xasthur
9 out of 10 guys I come across in the N1k HO their balls off. They're the sort of guys that hold onto the trigger and punch the nose down in a desperate attempt to get you in a blind head-on shot whilst you dive and evade.
That usually means that they're particularly easy to dispatch because the people flying them are total knobs.
I think N1ks are worse than La7s because typically it's the 'advanced loser noob' that flies them. They've been flying for long enough to want to step out of the La7 so they get in a N1k and HO away because they haven't learnt any ACM yet.
The N1ks guns arent as powerful as a Las guns or a hurri 2cs guns. It takes alot more hits to kill something. But when i flew n1ks full time, i would kill easily 7 planes and have 200-300 rounds in each gun. It's a great dogfighter. Bad diver, only good if ya want to turnfight anything up to a spit16.
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Sorry guys for the dustup. Most of the people in this community are a pleasure but some of these guys sit around playing a cartoon airplane game for 20 hours a day and think their "all that". They need a job or a hobby or something. Do something constructive with life instead of whining on a computer all day about noobs in LA-7s.
Christ!
Yaknow what I mean Lusche?
Thanks to all for the input on the Nikis.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Yaknow what I mean Lusche?
No I do't. But I remember very well how you bravely put me on ignore because I cared to post in a thread of yours where "I had no buissness in". Just like appr. 100 people more you triumphantly put on ignore in the past (most of them just because they cared to have a different opinion, or were talking without your permission).
But what happened? Running out of ignore slots?
And of course everybody knows that I'm whining on this board 24/7 about n00bs, La7's, only *****ing around, telling everybody how to play and never posting any constructive advice, help or information.
:p
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It is absolutely true that the N1K2 is the HOing plane of choice. More than any other plane, every time you see one expect the HO attempt.
I don't disagree with the noob assesment above but there are a few good pilots who fly the N1K regularily and are quite effective in it without having to resort to the HO.
It's not a bad plane. It turns decent, has good climbing ability, a ton of ammo, good firepower but it's a little on the slow side and the ballistics are sub-par. It's a middle of the road plane that matches up well with many others in the plane-set.
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Originally posted by Urchin
The Niki isn't quite as good as the Spit 16. That said, it is still usually in the top 4 as far as kills go. Those four are some combination of P51, La-7, Niki, Spit.
As far as where it stacks up... it is similar to a Spit 9. The 4 cannons have roughly the same firepower as other 2 Hizooka / 4 20mm birds so it can usually kill with a snapshot. It rolls marginally slower than the Spit 9, but turns a little tighter.
It is a marginally less effective Spit, with a whole lot more ammo.
soooo.......by numbers it's not quite as good as a spit9.........but it's very close...........which says to me that if you placed 2 average skilled pilots in the aircraft, and they dueled, it'd be the first pilot to make a mistake going down......then have them switch planes, and still the same..1st mistake loses........except that the niki sounds to have a much harder punch wiht the 4 cannons? i've never flown that......yet.........
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Originally posted by E25280
The Niki is very versitile for those who primarily fly "attack" type sorties. The large cannon ammo load makes it an effective building buster, especially for those times when ord is down. Without the large ord loadout, most .50cal armed planes are frustratingly poor town killers vs. cannon armed aircraft.
The added advantage vs. say a 110 is that the Niki is an adequate fighter. It is too slow and the guns have too poor balistics
My $0.02.
by this, do you mean the muzzle velocity? or does this fire a different type of round as compsared to the hispanos?
thanks
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Are you this big a jerk off in real life? Hold on guys while I put this nitwit on ignore. There, now maybe we can have a conversation without anyone putting anyone down.
I took a Niki out tonight and actually did OK in it. I hung it up verticle and forced a spit to drop out. Unfortunatly I lost sight of him and didnt exploit it. One thing Ive noticed is the Niki doesnt feel real good in the hands in a dive.
Hey Xasthur? You suck!
Hah, get over yourself mate.
Do you talk down to everyone 'in real life'? To be honest with you, more often than not your responses here are inflammatory and snotty. Perhaps you should take a look at yourself before being the first to jump of the faults of others.
I stand by what I said as an accurate assessment of my encounters with the N1k. If I ever see one I go into the fight assuming that the player will HO at the first opportunity. Most of the time, I am right. You go ahead, though, write my comments off as me being a jerk. Enjoy being shot in the face.
Of course I'm 'ignored' now, so this won't reach you on your high horse.
Originally posted by Rich46yo Sorry guys for the dustup. Most of the people in this community are a pleasure but some of these guys sit around playing a cartoon airplane game for 20 hours a day and think their "all that". They need a job or a hobby or something. Do something constructive with life instead of whining on a computer all day about noobs in LA-7s.
Christ!
Do you often draw assumptions out of thin air? You're suggesting that I don't have a job because I made a comment about my encounters with N1k pilots in-game? I fail to see the logic in this.
I'd like to see you quote me whining about La7s or any other aircraft in any other post than my last one. Please, go ahead.
Remarks like this make you look like an ignorant fool.
Drop the 'Mr Slick' act and stop being a banana.
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N1K was my favourite a/c in AH until i stopped playing. Absolutely loved it.
I rarely went above 6k and would just fight anything that came near me - didn't really use any specific tactics in it. Main thing is to get used to the ballistics of the guns, is is just a real good all round performer. I can't remember what i set my convergence at, but i seem to recall i set one pair at around 325 and another at 350 or so.
100% fuel and all those cannon rounds make it easy to get ~12 - 20 kills a sortie if you don't get stupid in it.
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Did someone call the LA-7 a (Superior Fighter?) << ughh ..... puke......retch... puke again..>> LA-7 is the ultimate crap/horrid plane ever created. NEVER was the LA-7/5 good in combat or as nimble in this game. Go (talk/read about an actual) Luftwaffe pilot that fought one. Like in the game... their advantage was in numbers not in pilot skill or superior design.
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Originally posted by SoonerMP
Did someone call the LA-7 a (Superior Fighter?) << ughh ..... puke......retch... puke again..>> LA-7 is the ultimate crap/horrid plane ever created. NEVER was the LA-7/5 good in combat or as nimble in this game. Go (talk/read about an actual) Luftwaffe pilot that fought one. Like in the game... their advantage was in numbers not in pilot skill or superior design.
*Runs and hides from incoming.*
donkey
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I fly niki's as a "primary" ride.
You would be hard pressed to find anybody who know's more about how to 'succesfully' fly the n1k in AH than myself.
Great planes. 99% of the pilots fly it wrong.
What is it you wanted to know?
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Originally posted by SoonerMP
Did someone call the LA-7 a (Superior Fighter?) << ughh ..... puke......retch... puke again..>> LA-7 is the ultimate crap/horrid plane ever created. NEVER was the LA-7/5 good in combat or as nimble in this game. Go (talk/read about an actual) Luftwaffe pilot that fought one. Like in the game... their advantage was in numbers not in pilot skill or superior design.
You poor, silly child. Do you realize what you just did? You painted a big old target on your arse with idiotic trolls like you just posted. Fortunately for you, some do take pity on the stupid.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by WMLute
I fly niki's as a "primary" ride.
You would be hard pressed to find anybody who know's more about how to 'successfully' fly the n1k in AH than myself.
Great planes. 99% of the pilots fly it wrong.
What is it you wanted to know?
Thanks Lute, that confirms what I've said in this thread.
9/10 players use it has a HO'ing battering ram. In the right hands it is a 'jack of all trades' but it is predominantly used as a boring aircraft to fight.
I've had Lute hand me my arse several times in a variety of aircraft with him in the N1k... It is potent when flown well. Thankfully Lute does actually use the N1k as a dogfighter as opposed to the alternative.
I don't care what people fly so long as they make a fun fight out of it... be it a La7, 190D, P51, 163, 262.... whatever.
I don't care if I 'lose', so long as it is an interesting fight.
As a matter of fact, I actually thoroughly enjoy taking on La7s in a 190 A8.... The fight is always a challenge, provided it doesn't turn into a HO fest (and even then, the 190 has more firepower there)
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Originally posted by trotter
Wow. I don't like the Niki much, but stroker and urchin above are really giving it a terrible rap.
As to weapon power, look at the fighter weapon rounds comparison chart at netaces.org. Using the .50 cal hitting power as base 1, the each of the Niki's Type 99 Mk 2 has a relative hitting power of 3.297222. For all four together, we will roughly say that the relative hitting power is 13.
This is FAR more powerful than the 2x Hispano and 4x Browning combination. Roughly, and the numbers are there on the chart if anyone wants to do more exact math, but roughly the combined relative hitting power of 2x Hispano and 4x Browning is 9.
The ballistics of the Type 99 Mk2 also cannot be described as "horrid". They are poorer than hispano's, yes, but far superior to German or Russian 20mm.
As to roll rate, yes admittedly it is terrible, but rudder can help you kick into a roll very well in a Niki.
The Niki has a very good climb rate, and can hang in the vert longer than people will expect. It is a little tougher than Spits, and a large advantage it has over the Ki84 is in the dive.
No, it's not an absolutely superb plane, but it's a little better than you guys above make it out to be.
i thought the japanese 20mm's were way worse than the luftwaffe 20mm...
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Originally posted by Lusche
No I do't. But I remember very well how you bravely put me on ignore because I cared to post in a thread of yours where "I had no buissness in". Just like appr. 100 people more you triumphantly put on ignore in the past (most of them just because they cared to have a different opinion, or were talking without your permission).
But what happened? Running out of ignore slots?
And of course everybody knows that I'm whining on this board 24/7 about n00bs, La7's, only *****ing around, telling everybody how to play and never posting any constructive advice, help or information.
:p
You didnt "post"those times. You anointed yourself moderator, barged in, and started dictating from up high. They got rules about that kid yaknow that? Actually I have all of 3 on ignore right now and no your not going to be one again because your kind of harmless. A bit addled from so much cartoon flying, but basically harmless. And somehow I got a feeling about you that you arent a bad guy beneath it all.
But remember this. You dont have an official position with AH so unless you can post constructively in my thread like a gentleman then keep your mouth shut and stay out of my threads. Skuzzy runs the boards not you! Its a shame someone with your skill doesnt contribute more.
Frankly I find it kinda offensive anyone would barge in a thread like this with insults about players and/or a cartoon airplane. Lusche wouldnt do that, "give him that", nor would I.
Man Ive been HO'd, or attempted HO'd in every kind of airplane flying in this game. By almost everyone who ever had a chance. I cant help but think the rest of you have as well, far more probably. Niki's and LAs aren't even close to the top of the list.
Once again thanks to all for the contributions. Im not all that sure I'll ever fly the Niki all that much but like every airplane I want to understand it more. At the least in order to beat it.
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Conveniently ignored, as I expected.
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Originally posted by CAP1
soooo.......by numbers it's not quite as good as a spit9.........but it's very close...........which says to me that if you placed 2 average skilled pilots in the aircraft, and they dueled, it'd be the first pilot to make a mistake going down......then have them switch planes, and still the same..1st mistake loses........except that the niki sounds to have a much harder punch wiht the 4 cannons? i've never flown that......yet.........
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No, typically in a DA type setup the Spit will win. It rolls faster so it is generally in a position to take a shot first. When I would fight people Niki vs Spit 9, the Spit 9 would win about 75% of the time, and it would win early. If the Spit missed their initial one or two shots, the Niki's superior slow speed handling and marginally better turning would usually be enough to win.
The "punch" is going to be about the same. You aren't going to take a shot from a plane with Hispanos and walk away undamaged. The Hispano is hands down the hardest hitting 20mm in the game. One hit to the tail and you are going to lose either the vertical stabilizer (the thing your ridder is on) or both of the horizontal ones (where your elevators are). In addition to that a LOT of shots land of the tail simply because most people aim at the center of mass and normally don't lead quite enough.
The Niki is a good airplane, just not as good as a Spit. Against most of the other planes in the set, the Niki handles so much like a Spit 9 that you will fight a Niki the same way you would a Spit 9, and they would fight you the same way. The major difference for the MA comes down to 2 Hizookas vs. 4 normal 20mm with a boatload of ammo.
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When stuff gets slow N1K2 always "hangs" nicely for the shot..........
Used to find it quite uber in 1v1 stuff from a predetermined merge.
Was really a matter of slowing the fight down.
Unless the opponent was in a zeke
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
You didnt "post"those times. You anointed yourself moderator, barged in, and started dictating from up high. They got rules about that kid yaknow that? Actually I have all of 3 on ignore right now and no your not going to be one again because your kind of harmless. A bit addled from so much cartoon flying, but basically harmless. And somehow I got a feeling about you that you arent a bad guy beneath it all.
But remember this. You dont have an official position with AH so unless you can post constructively in my thread like a gentleman then keep your mouth shut and stay out of my threads. Skuzzy runs the boards not you! Its a shame someone with your skill doesnt contribute more.
Frankly I find it kinda offensive anyone would barge in a thread like this with insults about players and/or a cartoon airplane. Lusche wouldnt do that, "give him that", nor would I.
Man Ive been HO'd, or attempted HO'd in every kind of airplane flying in this game. By almost everyone who ever had a chance. I cant help but think the rest of you have as well, far more probably. Niki's and LAs aren't even close to the top of the list.
Once again thanks to all for the contributions. Im not all that sure I'll ever fly the Niki all that much but like every airplane I want to understand it more. At the least in order to beat it.
REAL off topic but here goes.
1. If you break the rules the Skuzzinator will slap down your post. I know this very well.
2. When you post you put it up for discussion. For the uninitiated that mean quite probably people with different opinions from yours will post, and alot of us here are very sarcastic. Get over it its not YOUR thread you put up community discussion,grow some thicker skin.
3.It's not the plane it's the pilot. Put a 2week squeaker in any AC he's bound to ho as a primary tactic. However, fast or agile AC with lots of cannon is their preferred ride.
4. As to the Niki. Lots a cannon quite agile at lower speeds. Take it up and fly it like a spit. Nothing like experience with the AC to teach you. Just avoid high speed fights, the controls stiffen up much sooner than american iron.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Actually I have all of 3 on ignore right now
Ooh... ooh... can I get on the ignore list (now that there's openings)? I keep asking... c'mon.
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Most people don't expect the Nik to be flown fast or smart.
However it can be a blast in a furball if you don't try to turn too much with it.
Don't target fixate, feel free to take deflection shots on anything that crosses your sights inside 400 yards. You have enough ammo to spare.
If your flying the Nik you need to master the lead turn.
Keep your speed up, some alt under your wings, and your options open.
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Just jostled with A niki today, flying a Spit VIII.
On rather equal terms, and getting through the merge, I actually outmaneuvered it, including turning. and it was not much of a contest.
I had fuel for some 30 minutes BTW....
Just stay away from the HO's and Prop-hanging, and use roll rate if possible, then the Niki is not the biggest headache :D
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Nah I aint going to change Bronk. It wasnt me being insulted anyway. I dont fly the Niki, or a lot of other planes. But anyone who does, or flys anything else, is cool to me. I dont insult others over what they fly or how they play the game. If anyone likes to then I prefer they dont do it in my threads. Anyway I had my say and I'll leave a thread before getting in a prolonged flame.
Eagle its tempting but your a grownup right? Fight your own battles.
Ill bet 90% of the HO'ing is done by guys with at least 6 mos in the game.:lol Really. Just listen in on 200.
Ill say this about the Niki and that sometimes it seems deceptively fast. Not so much in the long haul but when you end up with one on your 6 it seems to hang on you longer then its top speed would indicate.
And its got a lot of lead to throw at you. I learned that flying bombers. Normally Nikis will start shooting at about 1,000k and seem to never run out of ammo.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Ill bet 90% of the HO'ing is done by guys with at least 6 mos in the game
I'm going to disagree with that statement. The reason why it's new people ho'ing is because they have little or no ACM abilities other then turn, point, shot, repeat. I am not saying that people who have been in the game longer don't, it's just you see it A LOT more with newer guys.
I only have roughly 8 months in this game, and I very rarely ho. I stopped using it as my main tactic about a month into the game. Not saying I don't, but it has to be the right circumstances for me, becuase I have come to realize that it's a toss up at best, and I am very confident in my abilities now to outfly most of your casual gamers in the MA then to put myself in that bad of odds. And don't confuse that with me saying I am good, as I still suck, it's just that over your casual gamer here I have put more effort into advancing up. There's still PLENTLY of people who can whoop my but.
donkey
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Originally posted by SoonerMP
Did someone call the LA-7 a (Superior Fighter?) << ughh ..... puke......retch... puke again..>> LA-7 is the ultimate crap/horrid plane ever created. NEVER was the LA-7/5 good in combat or as nimble in this game. Go (talk/read about an actual) Luftwaffe pilot that fought one. Like in the game... their advantage was in numbers not in pilot skill or superior design.
You may be thinking of the LaGG-3, which was known as the lacquered coffin. However, when the Shvetsov radial engine was added, creating the La5, it became one of the best planes of the war. The highest scoring Allied ace was Ivan Kozhedub, an La pilot, whose 61 kills included an Me-262.
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Originally posted by CAP1
by this, do you mean the muzzle velocity? or does this fire a different type of round as compsared to the hispanos?
thanks
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If you ever get down this far . . .
I am sure there is a difference in the actual round, but I was referring to the muzzle velocity. I believe rate of fire is lower too, but you have 4 vs. 2 on a Spit, so I don't think that is too relevant.
I don't recall what the actual muzzle velocities are, but let me put it this way . . . in my experience, when firing at a turning target, I have to lead quite a bit more with the N1K2 than with any other aircraft save the Zeke. It just takes the rounds a lot longer to get to that aim point. The Hispanos seem like lazers by comparison.
It is also why I tend to stay in the N1K when possible. To me, the differences in lead and drop are hard to adjust to. After flying the N1K, I tend to fire in front of the targets in any other aircraft. After flying something else and returning to the N1K, I find myself firing late / behind the targets. For some reason, I can adjust fairly quickly going from slow velocity to high velocity, but going back is harder. Not sure why that would be and of course your milage may vary.
I tried using the Typhoon (4 hispanos) a few tours back as a primary ride to see if I could get over my aversion to it (I failed -- still hate that plane). Gunnery was not a problem with the Typh after a couple sorties. When I went back to the N1K, it seemed to take forever before I could hit anything with it again.
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Originally posted by DoNKeY
I'm going to disagree with that statement. The reason why it's new people ho'ing is because they have little or no ACM abilities other then turn, point, shot, repeat. I am not saying that people who have been in the game longer don't, it's just you see it A LOT more with newer guys.
I only have roughly 8 months in this game, and I very rarely ho. I stopped using it as my main tactic about a month into the game. Not saying I don't, but it has to be the right circumstances for me, becuase I have come to realize that it's a toss up at best, and I am very confident in my abilities now to outfly most of your casual gamers in the MA then to put myself in that bad of odds. And don't confuse that with me saying I am good, as I still suck, it's just that over your casual gamer here I have put more effort into advancing up. There's still PLENTLY of people who can whoop my but.
donkey
I dont want to turn this into a HO thread but most of the HO's Ive seen have been around a long time and do have skills. There is the other angle to all this and it revolves around the rank system. Many experienced players will take an easy HO just for the kill points and the rank. MANY are very good HO shots and make shots noobs simply couldnt. Ive checked the historys of some and they have been around.
We have to many screwballs that like to blame new people for all the games problems. When was the last time you saw a noob tie up 200 for 20 mins with smacktalking nonsense and insults?
Nothing personal, if you say you dont then Ill believe you but at the same time I dont much believe anyone when they say they dont HO. Nor do I rank Nikis high on the List of HO airplanes, or for that matter LA-7s. I'll bet if AH kept records of planes that HO'd that it would be a fairly equal smattering with maybe a little higher percentage among the energy fighters and jabos.
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Hello Rich,
I have begun flying the Niki now and then as a fun break from the Spit family(my first love harem):D . Anyway, one thing that I have not seen mentioned yet is the Niki's ability to loop and loop and loop. You can wear alot of planes out with these types of manuevers in this bird.
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You can define 'noob' a couple different ways. I tend to define them as someone who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. There are numerous 'noobs' that play this game that are very .... sensitive. These are the ones who tie up 200 with their nonsense. There are a few who labour under the mistaken belief that berating whatever ******* that just cherrypicked you out of the 4 on 1 you were already in accomplishes something. I used to be one of those, now I know better.
Regarding a head-on, you should distinguish between the jousting passes that are seen so commonly in this game (basically picture a jousting list, and you've got it), and a front quarter snapshot that is taken when the opportunity presents itself. There are certain situations where I will set my lance and charge forward - generally that is when I am already fighting X on 1, so I feel that I have nothing to lose.
I tend to believe that most everyone feels that the joust is the option of last resort, but for some people run out of options faster than others.
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(offer still out there)
Did anybody wanna know how anything in particular about the niki?
Possibly a "vs." question, or a "how would I"?
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PM sent for some training Urchin.
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Originally posted by WMLute
(offer still out there)
Did anybody wanna know how anything in particular about the niki?
Possibly a "vs." question, or a "how would I"?
I've only just read this... took me a while to bother coming back after rich64's belligerent attitude.
Although, the only other person I see refer to it as "cartoon" flying on a regular basis is Storch... Either he's a clone or he hung around with the WRONG person the second he joined, and is thus marred for the rest of his AH life.
Anyways, Lute,
I was going to ask you to clarify your first point. You say that a lot of folks don't use it right. Well, not counting "they use it as HO machines" -- how would you best suggest flying it? For example, they say you should fly a Spit14 as an E fighter, not a turn fighter, even though it can turn well.
How would you briefly describe your thoughts on the proper way to fly this plane?
I've flown it from time to time. The weak guns put me off after I unloaded time after time into fighter and bomber alike, scored many hits, and was denied a kill.
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Originally posted by E25280
If you ever get down this far . . .
I am sure there is a difference in the actual round, but I was referring to the muzzle velocity. I believe rate of fire is lower too, but you have 4 vs. 2 on a Spit, so I don't think that is too relevant.
In a very coincidental note, using the numbers provided by Tony Williams on his website, the gun package of the SpitIX (2 Hizookas and 4 .303s) is the equal to the N1K2s package (4 Type99IIs). If you have .50s instead of 303s, the Spit gains an edge.
Numbers aren't everything of course, but this certainly does lend credence to the idea that they are similar, at least in this one emperical area.
-Sik
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Originally posted by WMLute
(offer still out there)
Did anybody wanna know how anything in particular about the niki?
Possibly a "vs." question, or a "how would I"?
I like it.... its hardly the "uber" ride painted by some then again I'm average at best thus...
Anyway Since I enjoy it I'll take ANY tactics/info you'd like to send this way.
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It used to be more potent. Remember, the spit16, spit8, 109g14, are all new rides. These planes didn't exist to compete with the N1K2 before a certain time frame.
The main competition was La7, N1k2, and the P-51 was used fairly often, but not as much as the la7 and n1k2.
Now, there are more planes on par with it, more can counter it, and the f4us turn with it (they didn't used to) so it's still powerful, but you can counteract it more easily than you used to be able to.
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Poor Krusty. It saddens me hes so sensitive he wont take part in my threads. If he went back to the beginning he would have saw how I started the entire thing, "yes belligerantly little me". Here, Ill post it again.
""""""'Who flies Nikis full time, or a lot? Ive only tooled around in the TA with them but they seem to have a lot to offer. Im a little surprised I dont see them in the air more. Back when I was in bombers full time any fighter with a 4 cannon package had to be treated with respect. Are the Nikis dissed? Is the Japanese set dissed?
How do they stack against the other turners? And any other input is appreciated."""""""""
I must say my interest is also in how to effectively fly the Niki against the airplane types that seem to give it the most trouble. Most of all the ones that also turn well while being better energy-wise. Most of all the Spit-16s, 109s, or even the 190-9s and other good high speed turners.
If you get some time to gather your thoughts WM they'd be most appreciated. I'll say thank you as always because even if Im rather blunt Im always respectful to those that deserve it.
"Tough Luck" to anyone that doesnt like it.
The Niki is one plane I just have no idea how to fly effectively. Which is why I started this thread. Thank you.
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You dont fly the N1K, you just point and shoot.
Hence why its so popular with the majority of players that still can't figure out what the meaning of 'stall' is.
:lol
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I can't understand it. It's all in Japanese.
BTW, I think the rate of fire is actually faster than most cannoned planes. It's just the ballistics that s**k.
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Whats to understand? yank stick, yank stick, yank stick, squeeze trigger at everything that moves---hope for golden (20mm) bb:aok
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I
BTW, I think the rate of fire is actually faster than most cannoned planes. It's just the ballistics that s**k.
No - it's about the slowest firing 20mm in game:
RoF (rounds per second):
MG-FF: 8
Type 99: 8 (N1k)
MG 151/20: 12
Hispano V: 12.5
Berezin B-20: 13
Ho-5: 14 (Ki-84)
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Originally posted by Lusche
No I do't. But I remember very well how you bravely put me on ignore because I cared to post in a thread of yours where "I had no buissness in". Just like appr. 100 people more you triumphantly put on ignore in the past (most of them just because they cared to have a different opinion, or were talking without your permission).
But what happened? Running out of ignore slots?
And of course everybody knows that I'm whining on this board 24/7 about n00bs, La7's, only *****ing around, telling everybody how to play and never posting any constructive advice, help or information.
:p
:rofl
:aok
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Originally posted by WMLute
(offer still out there)
Did anybody wanna know how anything in particular about the niki?
Possibly a "vs." question, or a "how would I"?
i wouldn't mind learnign to fly this machine properly, but as i've just opened my own shop, my time's been limited in the arenas..........
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The N1K2 has high (ish) speed flaps on it. You can start dropping flaps @ 220 kias.
Say you are knife fighting with a spitfire. At the start of the fight, when both planes are + 200kias is when the Niki needs to be thinking "position". Get them flaps out as fast as possible. (I will chop throttle untill I 'hear' that 1st notch of flaps drop, then I go full throttle, WEP on if I am pulling heavy G's)
It is this 170-240 kias window that you use to maneuver behind the oopponent, or at least get yourself well on the way to being there. When the fight get's slow the spit starts getting the advantage, or at least parity (depends on the spit).
If you bled E right, and got them flaps out quick, and didn't totally screw up on the merge, you should now be in "controll" of the fight and the opponent in big trouble.
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That is interesting Lute - I think the exact opposite based on my experience flying the Niki against the Spit V. Granted, it has been a couple years since I've done it, so the FMs may have changed a bit, but my experience is the Spitfire has the advantage off the merge, and once the fight gets slow the advantage goes to the Niki - the slower it gets the better the niki likes it.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
Nothing personal, if you say you dont then Ill believe you but at the same time I dont much believe anyone when they say they dont HO. Nor do I rank Nikis high on the List of HO airplanes, or for that matter LA-7s. I'll bet if AH kept records of planes that HO'd that it would be a fairly equal smattering with maybe a little higher percentage among the energy fighters and jabos.
I respect that you would believe me, but I never said that I don't HO, only that it takes a very certain situation (mainly 3 on 1's or greater). I'm just not going to come out of a HO 99.9% of the time able to fight the same as if I had dodged it/lead turn and then fight for a shot, so why put myself into that situation. I also believe that a majority of the vets/people who have been flying here longer have realized that, and THEY have the skill to be able to do that.
donkey
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Originally posted by DoNKeY
I respect that you would believe me, but I never said that I don't HO, only that it takes a very certain situation (mainly 3 on 1's or greater). I'm just not going to come out of a HO 99.9% of the time able to fight the same as if I had dodged it/lead turn and then fight for a shot, so why put myself into that situation. I also believe that a majority of the vets/people who have been flying here longer have realized that, and THEY have the skill to be able to do that.
donkey
well, donkey, in your 38......i think it'd be suicide to try to HO anyway.........i almost always got PW when i was HO'd in the 38,,,,,,,i couldn't manage to dodge in it.
that said......i(along with the vast majority of you) hate them......BUT......if i'm outnumbered, or hurt, or my plane's mising some fairly important parts, ore if YOU HO me FIRST.......then i'll gladly do it. same goes for base defense or base capture attempt(i expect it in these situtions too), as it's not really the dogfight now, but rather the survival of the base at hand..........hopefully i don't catch too much flack for this response:noid :noid
<>
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Originally posted by CAP1
well, donkey, in your 38......i think it'd be suicide to try to HO anyway.........i almost always got PW when i was HO'd in the 38
<>
Hence part of the reason why I very rarely ever HO.
donkey
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Originally posted by DoNKeY
Hence part of the reason why I very rarely ever HO.
donkey
:D :aok
i think a larger part though............
YOU KNOW HOW TO FLY AND FIGHT:aok :aok
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Originally posted by CAP1
:D :aok
i think a larger part though............
YOU KNOW HOW TO FLY AND FIGHT:aok :aok
Hehe I wish:D
donkey
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All the crying about HO'ing on the 200 channel Donkey makes it safe to say a whole lot of vets gets HO'd, or attempted HO'd. That and a lot of vets actually do it. I guess a lot depends on how you fly. If your a high alt picker, and no Im not saying you are, then your chances of getting HO'd are small. If you mix it up low in furballs, which limits your maneuvering, your chances are greater. Either way its kinda funny the idea that Vets neither give or take HO's. From what I can see the dedicated face shooters are opportunistic.
Thanks Lute Im going to spend a bit more time in the Niki with that thought in mind.
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
All the crying about HO'ing on the 200 channel Donkey makes it safe to say a whole lot of vets gets HO'd, or attempted HO'd. That and a lot of vets actually do it. I guess a lot depends on how you fly. If your a high alt picker, and no Im not saying you are, then your chances of getting HO'd are small. If you mix it up low in furballs, which limits your maneuvering, your chances are greater. Either way its kinda funny the idea that Vets neither give or take HO's. From what I can see the dedicated face shooters are opportunistic.
Thanks Lute Im going to spend a bit more time in the Niki with that thought in mind.
I guess we just have different definitions of vets...
donkey
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Originally posted by Rich46yo
All the crying about HO'ing on the 200 channel Donkey makes it safe to say a whole lot of vets gets HO'd, or attempted HO'd. That and a lot of vets actually do it. I guess a lot depends on how you fly. If your a high alt picker, and no Im not saying you are, then your chances of getting HO'd are small. If you mix it up low in furballs, which limits your maneuvering, your chances are greater. Either way its kinda funny the idea that Vets neither give or take HO's. From what I can see the dedicated face shooters are opportunistic.
Thanks Lute Im going to spend a bit more time in the Niki with that thought in mind.
hey rich..i agree with ya about the vets doing this too.
as far as donkey being picker.......i was furballing in a hurri2c(having a baaad night too..kept gettin my *** handed to me) i saw him at around 3 or 4k alt in a knife fight..i forget what he was flyin against, as i was more concerned with the guys down in the trees with me....but i died 3 times, and every time i came back to that area, he was still up fightin this guy......him, AND his opponent both had plenty of oppurtunities to drop in and pick any of us as we were all soooooo friggin slow.....i can't remember if he won or lost that fight either........just figured i'd mention that.......
<>
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Originally posted by CAP1
hey rich..i agree with ya about the vets doing this too.
as far as donkey being picker.......i was furballing in a hurri2c(having a baaad night too..kept gettin my *** handed to me) i saw him at around 3 or 4k alt in a knife fight..i forget what he was flyin against, as i was more concerned with the guys down in the trees with me....but i died 3 times, and every time i came back to that area, he was still up fightin this guy......him, AND his opponent both had plenty of oppurtunities to drop in and pick any of us as we were all soooooo friggin slow.....i can't remember if he won or lost that fight either........just figured i'd mention that.......
<>
Thanks anyway but really no need. Ive seen Donkey around enough to know hes an honorable player.
As to picking?? Certain airplanes are only competitive when they B&Z and use their energy/roll advantage effectively. When I see a 190, jug, or Pony up high looking for a pick I dont automatically hate them hate for doing so. Dropping down and turn fighting wouldnt be the smartest thing for him to do. Everyone to some extent picks anyways and I was just using the term as an example.
Everyday I say Im going to HO everyone I see , but everyday I end up HO'ing very few again anyways. I did face shoot a 262 last night that was buzzing around at 450 mph killing our mission goons. I dont know how he knew to up a 262 right at that moment but it cost him a bunch of perks.
Yesterday on TT I saw more Nikis then usual and again I didnt see one HO. A lot of other aircraft did in the furballs I was in but not a Niki. A couple of guys in tank Island knew what they were doing in them too. This is an effective aircraft.
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Urchin, it really all boils down to the pilot. A spit V SHOULD win vs. a N1K2-J.
The Spitfire holds it's Energy sooooo well that you can use that against it. Which is why I chop throttle (reverse rudder sometimes) and bleed my E so fast when it's clear we gonna knife fight.
IF the Spit pilot knows what's what and are also bleeding Energy, it's gonna get "interesting". Of all the Spitfires, the V is the one that gives me the most "concern" when fighting when I am in a N1K2-J.
(turn rate comparisons. values are No Flaps, One notch, and Full)
N1K2-J (0.05)
- 17 seconds (167mph), 202.0m
- 16 seconds (153mph), 174.2m
- 15 seconds (134mph), 143.0m
Spitfire Mk.V (0.05)
- 16 seconds (138mph), 157.0m
- N/A
- 17 seconds (102mph), 123,2m
If you look, the V turns best w/o flaps @ 138mph and w/ flaps 102 mph. The KEY to beating it in a N1K2-J is to be already in position when those speeds are reached, or well on your way at least. When fighting a Spit V that 170-220mph window, like I said, is key to getting yourself IN position.
IF you are poppin' out flaps like crazy you can have the N1K2-J's flaps full down before the spit can drop theirs giving you a small window to get position on it. The N1K2-J with two notches of flaps can turn with a Spit V not using flaps. Three notches and you will out turn it.
IF the Spit V manages to get their flaps out and you are NOT in position, you in for a rough fight.
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Either way its kinda funny the idea that Vets neither give or take HO's. From what I can see the dedicated face shooters are opportunistic.
Since when did being a "vet" require a moral code?
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i fly the N1K for town attack with the big cannon load, 50% fuel, the 2 bombs and the DT
great town attack AC, can also dogfight in a pinch.
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A good Niki pilot is a lethal opponent because while you may survive a short .50 cal burst from behind a short burst of 20mms is downright bad for your airplane. The only 2 downsides that I have with the bird is #1 Japanese plane=no armor or self-sealing tanks #2 wings tend to divorce you in a steep dive (over about 450). A Niki will outturn almost anything in the right hands, but doesn't accelerate fast enough to disengage from a high performance plane like an La. Also, as with La-7s if he turns into you he's probably gonna HO.