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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: FiLtH on March 03, 2008, 10:23:01 PM

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: FiLtH on March 03, 2008, 10:23:01 PM

I know its standard op in the game to make missions for capture. Part of the game. I like joining missions. However theres one I dont like. Its this mission.

110Gs
Nik
C47

NOE


   It seems its all we see anymore. Talen ran a few high alt buff runs last week and they were great. All the time people were on country complaining about wasted resources. The same people who always post the type missions listed above.

   NOE.  Not a fan. I just dont see the sense in sneaking around, in a game designed for air combat, and to try to avoid this combat to get quick base takes.

  I propose DARBARS..if not dardots too, are shown on the map regardless the alt of the mission. Maybe it would make people go up in the air higher where enemys can be met..for combat. Give the enemy time to grab to defend. Things like that.

INCOMING!!!

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Donzo on March 03, 2008, 10:26:38 PM

Yawn.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: moot on March 03, 2008, 10:27:52 PM

Without NOE goons will get found real quick.  And it's just not historical.. GPS radar is already gamey enough.  
I do agree with everything else.

And setups like NOE B25Hs deserve a radar floor.  Like a lot of things, it's all because of a few dolts that game the game to the limit, not because of a real flaw in the game itself.

And NOE 110s & N1Ks are not really that hard to counter.  A few La7s wep'd , orbiting the base at about 5K will easily tear the mission to negligible numbers.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: FiLtH on March 03, 2008, 10:36:57 PM

Well, air superiority would have to be achieved to get a goon in. He could get some alt and fly over the furball since staying low wouldnt matter as far as dar was concerned. Maybe even multiple goons in flight escorted by fighters to make it in, losing some on the way. Give goons formations with tight formation keeping to enable evasives without losing drones.

   I dont know. Im just tired of the same old missions we always see. The best thing would be to put in a strat target worth hitting without putting to much pressure on a side that its pointless to fly. But I dont see that happening.

  Sorry to bore you Donzo. I think a mission is posted.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: rabbidrabbit on March 03, 2008, 10:46:36 PM

We need some Candy Mountain missions?

Title: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: CAP1 on March 03, 2008, 10:47:30 PM

Quote

Originally posted by FiLtH
I know its standard op in the game to make missions for capture. Part of the game. I like joining missions. However theres one I dont like. Its this mission.

110Gs
Nik
C47

NOE


   It seems its all we see anymore. Talen ran a few high alt buff runs last week and they were great. All the time people were on country complaining about wasted resources. The same people who always post the type missions listed above.

   NOE.  Not a fan. I just dont see the sense in sneaking around, in a game designed for air combat, and to try to avoid this combat to get quick base takes.

  I propose DARBARS..if not dardots too, are shown on the map regardless the alt of the mission. Maybe it would make people go up in the air higher where enemys can be met..for combat. Give the enemy time to grab to defend. Things like that.

INCOMING!!!

i agree and disagree with ya.........it's actually FUN to sneak a base when you're all busy defending from our main force...........that's about the only thing i ever use NOE missions for.........other than that, i'd venture a guess that the guys that run them are the same guys that'd shoot ya in the face, just to see their score go up......remember..it's MUCH easier to defend than it is to take a base......if you don't know they're there till the hangars are down, or till troops are runnin, you probably can't get there fast enough to save it......hence they raise their score.......i could be wrong, but that's just my opinion.
 me personally, i'm with rich......and tallon....i like hi alt bombing raids......i go in and drop hangars, or whatever my squad needs me to hit, then loiter with my left overs, till thye need them...and i don't divebomb in lancs or 24's......:D

just my 2 cents......

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: hubsonfire on March 03, 2008, 11:27:55 PM

Filth, have you ever flown as a LW interceptor in a scenario or events?

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: ghi on March 04, 2008, 12:34:18 AM

Quote

Originally posted by FiLtH
Im just tired of the same old missions we always see. The best thing would be to put in a strat target worth hitting without putting to much pressure on a side that its pointless to fly. .

  imop ,there's no need for strat tgts, they are there on all maps, but they don't have any tactic value for war status, that's why a base captured with best tools Nikis and 110s are more frequent than masive bombing raids.

 i would vote for:

  1.--  HQ  destroyed---> lose radar 30 min without resup option.

  2.--  HQ+City destroyed over 90%, (doesn't matter how many bases each team owns)-->  lose war,map reset, game over.

  3.--Hillary

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: EagleEyes on March 04, 2008, 12:50:19 AM

Id vote for...


1. More "Fun" missions.  I used to do large scale Stuka raids, D3A raids, Hellcat Raids, heck ive been known to do a couple Battle of Britain raids; "JU88s hit town, JU87s hit hangers, 110Cs deack, 109Es hold CAP and escort."  Dont always do the same mission, mix it up, make everyone have fun!!

2. More giant buff raids, even if its just to flatten one base.  I remember my very first moment in AH.  I logged on, was a bish, sat in the tower and heard this loud whistling sound, like hundreds of them at once.  Thought my computer broke, then i heard a bunch of loud explosions.  When into F5 mode, if i remember right, looked up and saw about 30 flights of B-17s carpet bombing the base.  From that moment one, i was hooked!!  Of course, it was RIGHT after HiTech added the formations for the bombers, but still!  Need to do things to mix it up!

3. Anyone but another Clinton!
:noid


:aok

Have fun doing missions guys, thats what they are all about.  Nothing like seeing 50+ Typhoons coming into a base, or 50+ JU87s completely destroying a base, and vaulching at the same time! lol

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Anaxogoras on March 04, 2008, 12:54:29 AM

Quote

The best thing would be to put in a strat target worth hitting without putting to much pressure on a side that its pointless to fly. But I dont see that happening.

The biggest strategic factor should be attrition.  I will get yelled at for this opinion, but there ought to be a limit to how many lancs per hour can dive bomb a carrier, die, and then just re-up to do it again.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Fariz on March 04, 2008, 12:55:26 AM

Strat nowaday is dull comparing with what it was 4 years ago. Few days ago I saw good old style buff mission, it was 7 formation, 3 p47s as cover otw to hq, saw countrymates taking off in ta152, 109s, it was some wep climb, nice high alt play with escort, some buffs damaged, some 152 destroyed, but then buffs came close to 163 enabled field, and guess what happened?

It took 163 4 minutes to take off and destroy all buffs and escort.

HTC, PLEASE READ THIS!!! The current start system is brainless and dull, and totally furball oriented. If you do not want to fix everything, at least fix HQ. Well, few years ago, when HQ was destroyed, people logged of. Bad. But nowaday it is multiply arenas, and people will log into other arena, not log off. Make damn HQ not (or very hard) supplyable. Drive those 163 out of game, or make them 10 times more expensive perkwise to make them really rare and not so easy to risk and lose.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: SD67 on March 04, 2008, 12:56:03 AM

How about an "Iron Rain" mission:
100 buff formations, starts 50-50 at at each end of the front line and flies across the map to the other end. Every airbase along the way get levelled,  when they pass half way they move inland to do the next row in. :lol
Result: every airbase for 50 miles of the front line made flat.
Hey it won't last for long but imagine the crying and wailing there would be!:rofl

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: SkyRock on March 04, 2008, 01:01:29 AM

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Filth, have you ever flown as a LW interceptor in a scenario or events?

Shut it, making sense boi!

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: kvuo75 on March 04, 2008, 01:49:43 AM

for me, there is not much in this game more satisfying than uppin a n1kj, running a mile or two, and killin 4 or 5 110's as they try to take down town... finding and killing the parked goon is so much the better!


being in the 110's, taking down town in 1 or 2 passes, ho-ing the nik and letting the goon taxi in is a close second tho :) :)

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Furball on March 04, 2008, 02:07:40 AM

NOE Mossies and Typhs is the most fun

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Nilsen on March 04, 2008, 02:20:24 AM

You cant really win imo. Noe can be abit boring in the long run but then high alt incomming can pick alot easyer and imo its harder to up a defence against high alt pickers than the low alt hordes.

The major upside to the NOE raids is that when you spot it you can up at the field next door and have alt when you arrive at the attacked field. Then the defender becomes the picker, and those 110s are very nice targets :aok

Title: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Cee64E on March 04, 2008, 03:59:17 AM

Quote

Originally posted by FiLtH
I know its standard op in the game to make missions for capture. Part of the game. I like joining missions. However theres one I dont like. Its this mission....
INCOMING!!!

The only historical reason for high alt missions of any kind was fuel related.  The planes had to get high to have the range to reach their targets.  History shows it was the best of a bad idea when you have 600 planes leave and 350 come back from a daylight raid.  It was so bad the brits wouldn't fly bombing missions in daylight.  NOE missions, for the short ranges we fly, make the most tactical sense.
And no, I am not interested in flying 6+ hours for one mission just to be historically accurate.  
I like the NOE missions because they are fun.  I've been on both sides of such missions and even when my tail gets shot off, I still have fun.  Thats what I pay for: Fun

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: mipoikel on March 04, 2008, 04:21:02 AM

We tried NOE mossie raid once. After first pass in town, we were all burning.:D

Title: Re: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Masherbrum on March 04, 2008, 04:31:07 AM

Quote

Originally posted by CAP1
me personally, i'm with rich......and tallon....i like hi alt bombing raids......i go in and drop hangars, or whatever my squad needs me to hit, then loiter with my left overs, till thye need them...and i don't divebomb in lancs or 24's......:D

just my 2 cents......

Last week, they bypassed 4 surrounding fields and bombed a city.    NOE missions are just fine IMO.    I also hold the record for most Stuka's in a Mission.    

What is even more funny is that the Niki isn't needed.   I only need 4 110's and a goon.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Rich46yo on March 04, 2008, 05:51:13 AM

I like flying NOE. Most of all in mountainous terrain where its challenging. My favorite missions are base capture missions, in fact they are pretty much the only kind I will fly.

                 I know nobody here is putting down anyone elses flavor, all were doing is saying what we like. But Ive seen it before and in my own mind "its all good" and any mission anyone likes flying is cool with me.

               Thing about NOE is your in the wind if you screw up just a bit. 100' off the ground, without much energy? The trick is teamwork and keeping that little darbar from popping on and off.

             I like the guys who fly the Rook High Alt missions but for me? They are kinda boring. Tho like I said, its all good. One good thing is the Rooks are starting to get other mission makers to step up and lead.

Title: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Tilt on March 04, 2008, 05:57:13 AM

Quote

Originally posted by FiLtH

  I propose DARBARS..if not dardots too, are shown on the map regardless the alt of the mission. Maybe it would make people go up in the air higher where enemys can be met..for combat. Give the enemy time to grab to defend. Things like that.

INCOMING!!!

I think if the radar minimum alt was actually lowered to 200 then many an NOE mission would have stuff popping in and out of radar.

Of course its always easier to run NOE over water so island heavy maps will see lots of this stuff

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Oldman731 on March 04, 2008, 07:54:06 AM

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
Filth, have you ever flown as a LW interceptor in a scenario or events?

I have.  Against some of Filth's B-17 missions in the AvA.

Lots of fun, I know what he's talking about.

- oldman

Title: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: bobtom on March 04, 2008, 08:33:39 AM

Quote

Originally posted by FiLtH
I know its standard op in the game to make missions for capture. Part of the game. I like joining missions. However theres one I dont like. Its this mission.

110Gs
Nik
C47

NOE

Its just another tactic.......i dont see why people hate tactics.............

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: humble on March 04, 2008, 08:41:14 AM

NOE missions can be fun, particularly when they are run in response to a large horde on the other side. The 71st doesnt ever really do missions per se or roll bases regularly but when we get the itch we usually can roll bases with 3 or 4 guys. 2 sets of lancs a C hog and a goon can normally get the job done and so can a single fighter/goon on a V base.

The maps that segregate Vbase spawns from airfields greatly limit this however...

The real issue is the "go where thier not" and the "go with 10-1 odds" mentality thats more and more prevalent.

Title: Re: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Donzo on March 04, 2008, 11:07:59 AM

Quote

Originally posted by bobtom
Its just another tactic.......i dont see why people hate tactics.............

Mainly because they (tactics) might require some additional effort to be combated (i.e. looking for signs of a NOE on the map).

I guess the next step would be to request that coad be written to detect a NOE mission and report it in pink text on 200.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: ROX on March 04, 2008, 11:22:17 AM

After running alot of missions lately...I ditched the Mossies (they are flak magnets) and replaced the 110's with 190-A8's with 30mm.

NIK1s are fun....they have cannon and can take some ords.

Funny....some folks are making light of the Alliance Missions....it's amazing how they can't counter them.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: hubsonfire on March 04, 2008, 11:46:05 AM

You don't even see an enemy in most of your missions, Rox. It's not a matter of "can't stop you"; you're steamrolling out-of-the-way fields on the big maps where no one sees you. There's a difference.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Karnak on March 04, 2008, 11:50:40 AM

Quote

Originally posted by mipoikel
We tried NOE mossie raid once. After first pass in town, we were all burning.:D

They fixed that.  The Mossie doesn't burst into flame when looked at and is now actually one of the toughest twins.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Yknurd on March 04, 2008, 12:09:51 PM

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
You don't even see an enemy in most of your missions, Rox. It's not a matter of "can't stop you"; you're steamrolling out-of-the-way fields on the big maps where no one sees you. There's a difference.

Now THAT is going to leave a mark.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: ROX on March 04, 2008, 12:10:07 PM

Quote

Originally posted by hubsonfire
You don't even see an enemy in most of your missions, Rox. It's not a matter of "can't stop you"; you're steamrolling out-of-the-way fields on the big maps where no one sees you. There's a difference.

Please come knight and join one.

We see PLENTY of enemy.

Seriously....join one....you will see how blind your post was.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Wingnutt on March 04, 2008, 12:12:26 PM

Quote

Originally posted by FiLtH
Maybe even multiple goons in flight escorted by fighters to make it in

there in lies the OTHER side if the "gamey" aspect of missions..

if A goon is spotted, its dead.. no matter how many fighters are escorting it, the enemy will just plunge in with reckless abandon after the goon, knowing it means sure death for the attacker is of no consequence in this game, as he can be back in the air a few seconds after he dies..

thats a BIG part of why base taking missions are so "gamey" because the defenders are JUST as, if not more gamey than the attackers..

up LA7 streak across deck and auger blazing away at goon.. if ya miss, or get shot down do it over and over again..


you could try a more realistic mission, come in at altitude and have each goon escorted by 10 fighters.. wouldent make the slightest difference.. as soon as an enemy spots them.. they are dead..  sure the guy attacking will die.. be he doesent care, he just wants to get the goon, and if he misses, he will just re-up and do it again, and again..

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: kamilyun on March 04, 2008, 12:15:43 PM

Quote

Originally posted by ROX
Please come knight and join one.

We see PLENTY of enemy.

Seriously....join one....you will see how blind your post was.

What so he can get called a spy and muted? :lol

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Carwash on March 04, 2008, 12:18:17 PM

Quote

Originally posted by ghi

 i would vote for:

  1.--  HQ  destroyed---> lose radar 30 min without resup option.

  2.--  HQ+City destroyed over 90%, (doesn't matter how many bases each team owns)-->  lose war,map reset, game over.

  3.--Hillary

I'm voting Obama.  I want someone that unites the country.  I want change. I want a president that is well spoken.  Past that I can't think of a single reason to vote for him.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: BaldEagl on March 04, 2008, 12:20:58 PM

Last week I saw a friendly GV base flashing but no dar bar or dots.  I rushed over there and jumped into external view in the tower... no incoming vehicles.  I jumped into an Osite and rolled out of the hanger, positioning myself to watch the maproom and all three hangers.

Here they came in 110's (there might have also been one LA).  Four in total.

I killed all four then heard a goon landing.  He was off the base behind a hedgerow.  I was tracked but could just see the tip of his tail and the tip of his nose.  I took off the tail.  No kill.  I hit the nose and got the kill.

It was the BG's.  I killed 'em all :rofl

Let them have their fun... I'm having mine!

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: humble on March 04, 2008, 12:30:55 PM

Quote

Originally posted by ROX
After running alot of missions lately...I ditched the Mossies (they are flak magnets) and replaced the 110's with 190-A8's with 30mm.

NIK1s are fun....they have cannon and can take some ords.

Funny....some folks are making light of the Alliance Missions....it's amazing how they can't counter them.

Basically no different then the old rook alliance, just a matter of winding up the horde....regardless of the chess piece. It was, is and always will be the lowest common denominator of game play IMO. Anybodt can be "good" in a horde.

A true mission is 4-6 people working in concert along a fluid but contested front vs roughly comparable numbers. It's the ability to gain maximum effect from limited resources without stripping assets away from an already contested number. As for the other 99% of the "mizzions" regardless of the chess piece they are just glorified circle jerks. That is a generic comment ROX and not aimed at you, your squad or any other chess piece specifically...simply a broad indictment of a completley lame aspect of gameplay (IMO).

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: K-KEN on March 04, 2008, 12:51:14 PM

Quote

Originally posted by ghi
imop ,there's no need for strat tgts, they are there on all maps, but they don't have any tactic value for war status, that's why a base captured with best tools Nikis and 110s are more frequent than masive bombing raids.

 i would vote for:

  1.--  HQ  destroyed---> lose radar 30 min without resup option.

  2.--  HQ+City destroyed over 90%, (doesn't matter how many bases each team owns)-->  lose war,map reset, game over.

  3.--Hillary

I disagree.
I recall, several years back when we did RJO, Rooks Joint Operations, we kept the HQ down and porked all strats and it resulted in the BISH or Knits or both being limited to 25% fuel and no ord or resupply for hours.
All done, basically, in one huge organized raid!

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Yknurd on March 04, 2008, 12:52:47 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Carwash
I'm voting Obama.

I'm guessing your young.  Or ignorant.  Or both.

Quote

Originally posted by Carwash
I want someone that unites the country.  

Yeah, that'll work.  Still going with both.

Quote

Originally posted by Carwash
I want change.

As if the any president can really make all his promises happen.  Still looks like both.

Quote

Originally posted by Carwash
I want a president that is well spoken.  

Well, compared to Boosh=Hitler everyone is well spoken!  But seriously, what kind of qualification is that?  Both.

Quote

Originally posted by Carwash
Past that I can't think of a single reason to vote for him.

Nail.  Head.  Hit.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: hubsonfire on March 04, 2008, 12:53:42 PM

Quote

Originally posted by ROX
Please come knight and join one.

We see PLENTY of enemy.

Seriously....join one....you will see how blind your post was.

I've flown in a few of these missions. I can say with authority that watching paint dry is more exciting.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: coola4me on March 04, 2008, 01:03:28 PM

(http://www.evenfallstudios.com/emoticons/hornets_nest.gif)

Title: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: swareiam on March 04, 2008, 01:21:19 PM

Quote

Originally posted by FiLtH
I know its standard op in the game to make missions for capture. Part of the game. I like joining missions. However theres one I dont like. Its this mission.

110Gs
Nik
C47

NOE


It seems its all we see anymore.

Hmmm... I could be mistaken, but I thought the point was to take bases to win the war. The mission planners seem to be using a success level formula for base captures; Bigger(guns), Better(planes),Faster or Tougher(both). It seems that this formula is repeated based on being the best one. People seem to flock to these missions. Dunno, I think folks have fun flying them.

Although, I did witness a Bish P-40E raid once, very cool, and looked like fun. Maybe close to 40 planes involved. But, within 5 minutes they were shredded. I think one P-40E actually made it to the base, smoking. The guy probably had a pilot wound, with absolutley no chance of making it home. That's not based on his skill level. That was based on the six guys on his six blazing away.:lol

Like I said, looked like fun. But that's not how you win a war. right?

Cheers:aok

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Yknurd on March 04, 2008, 01:29:22 PM

I thought the original intent was to fight.

Winning the war and boats and vehicles are all ancillary to me.  They help shift gears and do something different but they are certainly not on the forefront.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: FiLtH on March 04, 2008, 02:10:12 PM

I think thats the biggest factor here. Two camps. One side wants real estate...that will be reset in a little while, and a side that wants good fights.
I cant remember a single base I ever took, but I can remember individual fights Ive had as far back as Air Warrior.

  Hub yes I have been axis interceptor in many scenarios and FSOs. If you start high, and blow past the escort, you get a few passes in, then have to dive away to reposition, or fight the escort if they leave the buffs to come after you. Looks like a good battle to me.

Title: Re: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: kamilyun on March 04, 2008, 02:18:57 PM

Quote

Originally posted by swareiam

Although, I did witness a Bish P-40E raid once, very cool, and looked like fun.

...

Like I said, looked like fun. But that's not how you win a war. right?

Cheers:aok

And here folks is the crux of the problem.  People confusing this game for a war.  What happens when you win the war?  Nothing.  If you are that hungry for 20 perks, you need to learn how to fly better b/c you suck.

If resetting maps again and again to win the war is really your thing...go to the EW and team up with SOARz.  You'll be happier than heck.

From Hitech himself:  And please do not tell me AH is war, because it is not, it is a War game. And games are ment to be fun and fair.

So yeah, those guys in the P40 raid had it right.  HAVE FUN and stop worrying about winning t3h war.

Title: Re: Re: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: humble on March 04, 2008, 02:58:50 PM

Quote

Originally posted by kamilyun
And here folks is the crux of the problem.  People confusing this game for a war.  What happens when you win the war?  Nothing.  If you are that hungry for 20 perks, you need to learn how to fly better b/c you suck.

If resetting maps again and again to win the war is really your thing...go to the EW and team up with SOARz.  You'll be happier than heck.

From Hitech himself:  And please do not tell me AH is war, because it is not, it is a War game. And games are ment to be fun and fair.

So yeah, those guys in the P40 raid had it right.  HAVE FUN and stop worrying about winning t3h war.

:aok :aok :aok

What he said....

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: moot on March 04, 2008, 03:24:36 PM

Quote

Originally posted by ROX
After running alot of missions lately...I ditched the Mossies (they are flak magnets) and replaced the 110's with 190-A8's with 30mm.

NIK1s are fun....they have cannon and can take some ords.

Funny....some folks are making light of the Alliance Missions....it's amazing how they can't counter them.

Hey what's that sound?!  Oops, spies don't make sounds do they?


Filth, it's like kamilyun said.  It's not because of the game, it's because of players who go for the path of least resistance that'll get them "kills" and hit sprites and pat on the back messages in gold text on the text buffer.. They don't really know and/or care for combat.  
Either they don't understand how to actualy fight, and opt for something that'll do the fighting for them (easy planes, NOE swarm tactic vs empty bases, etc), or they flat out don't care and just do all those things because the game allows them to.

Another effect on missions is that no one joins a mission unless they've got a good guarantee it will be fun, e.g. that they won't get shot down.. It's common sense even though it's in effect incorrect: no one really wants to bother making an effort to play the other players' way of playing.. It's their 15$, their game, they'd rather play like they want to.  But that's just ignoring the potential of missions - well planned missions would do the same thing they do on their own (combat), but better: There's actual combat discipline to it rather than just random swarming.. Maybe the mission leader sets wingman pairs, etc.

So, 110G2 + N1K + C47 missions are often not due to players' lack of creativity, but just to sugarcoat the bait.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Stang on March 04, 2008, 06:33:41 PM

Quote

Originally posted by moot
Hey what's that sound?!  Oops, spies don't make sounds do they?


Filth, it's like kamilyun said.  It's not because of the game, it's because of players who go for the path of least resistance that'll get them "kills" and hit sprites and pat on the back messages in gold text on the text buffer.. They don't really know and/or care for combat.  
Either they don't understand how to actualy fight, and opt for something that'll do the fighting for them (easy planes, NOE swarm tactic vs empty bases, etc), or they flat out don't care and just do all those things because the game allows them to.

Another effect on missions is that no one joins a mission unless they've got a good guarantee it will be fun, e.g. that they won't get shot down.. It's common sense even though it's in effect incorrect: no one really wants to bother making an effort to play the other players' way of playing.. It's their 15$, their game, they'd rather play like they want to.  But that's just ignoring the potential of missions - well planned missions would do the same thing they do on their own (combat), but better: There's actual combat discipline to it rather than just random swarming.. Maybe the mission leader sets wingman pairs, etc.

So, 110G2 + N1K + C47 missions are often not due to players' lack of creativity, but just to sugarcoat the bait.

Spot on.

Oh and Rox, the only enemy 30 of you guys encountered in the .report Stang mission were 5 gv's, and they were too much for you to handle.

Title: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: evenhaim on March 04, 2008, 06:39:34 PM

:rofl  stang,

I dont join missions unless they are t3h sqwad mishies or if im setting it up like last weeks b25 Fighter sweep:)

Title: Re: Re: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: CAP1 on March 04, 2008, 11:48:54 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Masherbrum
Last week, they bypassed 4 surrounding fields and bombed a city.    NOE missions are just fine IMO.    I also hold the record for most Stuka's in a Mission.    

What is even more funny is that the Niki isn't needed.   I only need 4 110's and a goon.

i've seen some small groups in 110's tear up towns and bases relativly fast, so i think i'd have to fully agree with ya on that.........

Title: Re: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: swareiam on March 07, 2008, 11:44:32 AM

Quote from: kamilyun on March 04, 2008, 02:18:57 PM

And here folks is the crux of the problem.  People confusing this game for a war.  What happens when you win the war?  Nothing.  If you are that hungry for 20 perks, you need to learn how to fly better b/c you suck.

If resetting maps again and again to win the war is really your thing...go to the EW and team up with SOARz.  You'll be happier than heck.

From Hitech himself:  And please do not tell me AH is war, because it is not, it is a War game. And games are ment to be fun and fair.

So yeah, those guys in the P40 raid had it right.  HAVE FUN and stop worrying about winning t3h war.

I see your point. But now see mine. There is fun to be had in AH (PERIOD). The guys that like to run missions to see how many bases can be captured in a minimal amount of time find that to be fun. The gross product of that, if successful, is winning the war. That is the point if you are caputring bases. If you keep in mind the subject of this thread. I'll keep in mind that you seem to be overly fixed and excited about your position on having fun your way. Which is okay. :aok

But, keep in mind that part of the immersion of this game is WAR as well. The history and spectical of time long ago that only a very few of us were old enough to remember. So, remember this is a war GAME first and foremost. Some of us like to play it that way. If all YOU like to do is dogfight, that's just fine, why don't you go try the DA. Resetting of the maps is rare in the MA. Furballing is much more common and is what people like as well. So resetting of maps shouldn't be a major concern for you. You'll have plenty of time before the next reset. BTW, base captures is one aspect of the game. I personally enjoy every aspect of this game, base captures just being one. So, I don't need you to tell me how to have fun if am already doing that.

A good fight happens anywhere you can find one. But not usually during base captures. It's a quick in and out kind of operation. Yes, with emphesis on winning the war, sometimes.  That is a focus of base captures, not of furballing. So you should probably pick another thread for your comments or start another. We're talking about base captures and missions here. What are you talking about?

Cheers :huh

Title: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: FrodeMk3 on March 07, 2008, 01:26:58 PM

You know, people talk about all the "gaming" the game. The NOE missions, the bomb-n-bail, and everything else. But they forget that AH does not accurately simulate life; For example, Fleet Carriers for the major powers' in WWII had on average 60-80 planes. And those were broken down into so many Dive bombers, Torpedo planes, and Fighters. However, in AH, I've seen CV's disgorge well over 100 planes' of all types' during a fight.As well as airfields.

My point here being, you can't expect to fight in the true WWII style, without actually having WWII restrictions'. Was there an all-encompassing GPS radar showing every plane in flight in every theatre of WWII? Hell no. We have it for gameplay purposes. We have airfields' that can launch hundreds' of fighters' and bombers from them, yet only put 75% fuel on them, irrespective of supply. In reality, Alotta aircraft would have been grounded, but in AH, that doesn't work for gameplay. So we have that. Well over 3/4 of the planes' we have in our planeset, were origanally designed to fly and fight at alts' over 10k, With many of the battles' up between 15k to 30k. In this game, It is the norm to see fights' at 5k and less.

Remember this is a game. The tactics' in use are the ones' that work, with the tools' at hand. The only thing that's really gonna change the tactics' used, is to change the game itself (The strat system, The way bases are captured, The whole win-the-war system.) Until you do that, It will be more of the same.

Title: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: MajIssue on March 07, 2008, 01:44:41 PM

Quote from: FiLtH on March 03, 2008, 10:23:01 PM

I know its standard op in the game to make missions for capture. Part of the game. I like joining missions. However theres one I dont like. Its this mission.

110Gs
Nik
C47

NOE


   It seems its all we see anymore. Talen ran a few high alt buff runs last week and they were great. All the time people were on country complaining about wasted resources. The same people who always post the type missions listed above.

   NOE.  Not a fan. I just dont see the sense in sneaking around, in a game designed for air combat, and to try to avoid this combat to get quick base takes.

  I propose DARBARS..if not dardots too, are shown on the map regardless the alt of the mission. Maybe it would make people go up in the air higher where enemys can be met..for combat. Give the enemy time to grab to defend. Things like that.

INCOMING!!!

I'll make this easy...
1. Don't join missions that have the aircraft you don't like...
2. Make a mission that is set up the way YOU think it should be... or
3. Get a load of cheeze to go with this WHINE!!!!

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Title: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: FrodeMk3 on March 07, 2008, 01:52:13 PM

Quote from: FiLtH on March 03, 2008, 10:23:01 PM

I know its standard op in the game to make missions for capture. Part of the game. I like joining missions. However theres one I dont like. Its this mission.

110Gs
Nik
C47

NOE


   It seems its all we see anymore. Talen ran a few high alt buff runs last week and they were great. All the time people were on country complaining about wasted resources. The same people who always post the type missions listed above.

   NOE.  Not a fan. I just dont see the sense in sneaking around, in a game designed for air combat, and to try to avoid this combat to get quick base takes.

  I propose DARBARS..if not dardots too, are shown on the map regardless the alt of the mission. Maybe it would make people go up in the air higher where enemys can be met..for combat. Give the enemy time to grab to defend. Things like that.

INCOMING!!!

I wonder what would happen if HTC just simply disabled the mission editor...?  :noid

Title: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: SD67 on March 08, 2008, 03:48:21 AM

We took a couple of bases today starting with a huge jug mission at 20k, we dove for E just inside the radar ring to 10K and proceeded to decimate the air base.
We then took a few goons in to take it and it's neighbouring V base.
Kudos to EGG for planning it, it was a nice change of pace.

Title: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Sommers on March 09, 2008, 03:20:42 AM

Quote from: Cee64E on March 04, 2008, 03:59:17 AM

The only historical reason for high alt missions of any kind was fuel related.  The planes had to get high to have the range to reach their targets.

Its ONE reason.  What about avoiding that nasty flak and giving the opposition less time to respond?  Bombers and fighters historically climbed to 15-25k regularly not becuase they didn't have the fuel, but to minimize the attrition of trained pilots.  The only acceptions were ground attack and caps. 

In the game people just don't have the patience for this -  maybe if their lives were at stake we wouldn't see divebombing lanc's :rock

Title: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: Ghastly on March 09, 2008, 08:37:03 AM

I don't mind that folks find the Niki/110/C47 missions as fun.  And they are virtually unstoppable when executed correctly and with enough participation. 

I find them boring as heck after by the 3rd one though.

<S>

Title: Re: I'll probably get some flak from this
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on March 09, 2008, 09:54:28 AM

One of the funnyest missions I've flown was a NOE C-47 trip to a enemy field with the town down.

Turns out out mission was repelled way before I got to the base but I felt suicidal so I continued between the mountains NOE. I counted 12 enemy fighters on top of the field when I managed to climb up the hill and land next to the town. I released the goons and puff we got the town despite having 0 friendly fighters around.  :D