Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Serenity on March 13, 2008, 08:50:49 PM
-
Bf-109F
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/ScannedImage.jpg)
Ive already started work, but im going off to NCOS soon, so it wont be done by the end of the month.
-
nice plane relese it so we can see it and give you feed back on it
-
Not historical.
I've done tons of searching. The red is from a single source. There's a decal sheet that shows a red cowling, but it's very old and suspect in quality.
Most likely it had a yellow cowling and this is some misinterpretation of a B&W photo.
I can't find ANY proof it ever existed.
-
I couldnt find any other pictures either, but it didnt seem to unrealistic. So krusty, your official verdict is dont do it? Or should I substitue red for yellow?
(While I can find no proof for or agains the historical accuracy, there is nothing screamingly wrong about this... the yellow above and to the left is far more suspect IMHO)
-
I couldnt find any other pictures either, but it didnt seem to unrealistic. So krusty, your official verdict is dont do it? Or should I substitue red for yellow?
(While I can find no proof for or agains the historical accuracy, there is nothing screamingly wrong about this... the yellow above and to the left is far more suspect IMHO)
Thats just a tropical scheme. Its more of a brownish color. Yellow 14... is that one of Marseilles?
-
You might as well skin a pink-nosed Fw190, IMO.
There were precious few 109s with red noses like that, only a handful that I can think of. This isn't one of them.
It's an early scheme on a 109F-2. There was no red theater bands on the oil cooler and rudder, but there WAS yellow ones (and white, but yellow is more likely to be mistaken for red in photographs).
Most likely, based on all the searching I've done on this profile, this skin was yellow-cowled, and yellow-ruddered, and it may or may not have had yellow wingtips (my guess would be yes, seems to be the style for that period, but there could be exceptions).
I would strongly suggest NOT just skinning it and leaving it up to HTC to decide. That's dishonest in my book, hoping that they'll pass it because they don't know. That's how we ended up with black P-38Js (for example).
There are plenty of profiles I wanted to skin, but weren't legit. We have to at least uphold the standards of "it flew into combat like this"
-
If you do it with a yellow cowl/rudder, that profile isn't the best. It's not technically accurate with shape and certain elements, and the colors look off (going by Marseille's sandgelb one above it).
Here are a few others, based off an old decal sheet. I don't have a higher res scan, and mind you the red should probably be yellow.
EDIT You can see there's some variation in the interpretation of the colors. It's probably more similar to the standard splinter scheme. A lot of the early 109F-2s have standard splinter upper, and custom side mottling.
-
I would strongly suggest NOT just skinning it and leaving it up to HTC to decide. That's dishonest in my book, hoping that they'll pass it because they don't know. That's how we ended up with black P-38Js (for example).
There are plenty of profiles I wanted to skin, but weren't legit. We have to at least uphold the standards of "it flew into combat like this"
The difference is IMHO, that those Black P-38s had absolutely NO references. I know red nosed 109s existed. It did happen. And while unique, I can see this plane as having existed. And while I can find no other pictures to corroborate it, I can find no pictures of any of the pilot's aircraft, leading me to believe that it is more likely that this skin is accurate, just without much documentation, rather than totally false. While the colors may be slightly off, im useing the swatches at simmers paint shop to get the colors rather than matching perfectly. I would really like to see this in game, and it seems accurate to me, so im going to finish it and leave this topic on the board for a few weeks before I submit to see if anything else comes to light. And if someone can prove one way or the other, I will take appropriate measures. If this were an all-red, or some other ridiculous paint job, I would agree instantly, but other than that yellow colored 109 and this one, every other aircraft profile in that book that I researched was accurate, giving me no reason to believe this one is wrong.
-
but other than that yellow colored 109 and this one, every other aircraft profile in that book that I researched was accurate, giving me no reason to believe this one is wrong.
I dont know what your fascination with that Tropical 109 is. Thats a common color in Luftwaffe aircraft serving in the Mediterranean theater (particularly North Africa). The 109 pictured is that of Hans-Joachim Marseilles, the most successful ace on the Western front (and often considered the best pilot of the Luftwaffe)
Heres another picture of it-
(http://users.hol.gr/~nowi/luftcam/camna1941-1.jpg)
The color is RLM-79. Its probably got an RLM-65 lower area.
-
Second time on this skin is still not the charm.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,207646.0.html
-
I dont know what your fascination with that Tropical 109 is. Thats a common color in Luftwaffe aircraft serving in the Mediterranean theater (particularly North Africa). The 109 pictured is that of Hans-Joachim Marseilles, the most successful ace on the Western front (and often considered the best pilot of the Luftwaffe)
Heres another picture of it-
(http://users.hol.gr/~nowi/luftcam/camna1941-1.jpg)
The color is RLM-79. Its probably got an RLM-65 lower area.
Look at the color difference between the pic you just posted and the one in my pic. Mine is WAY too yellow IMHO.
-
Second time on this skin is still not the charm.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,207646.0.html
Fencer, so are you saying not to do it as well? I would justify this, because, well, like a bunch of other people in that post, there is no conclusive evidence one way or the other; This is supported by a profile (Granted not all are correct, and this one has only one); and some variety is always nice. I would REALLY like to see this ingame, but if you all think I shouldnt do it, I wont.
-
"And while I can find no other pictures to corroborate it, I can find no pictures of any of the pilot's aircraft, leading me to believe that it is more likely that this skin is accurate,"
That's a non sequitir. ("it does not follow")
That's not logical at all.
You can't find ANY references of the real plane, so it must be accurate?
I'm sorry but I've run across MANY color profiles that are wrong, inaccurate, poorly colored, you name it! It's an artist interpretation, and the older the book often you run into printing problems where they can't replicate the proper colors (say, turning a grey into nearly black-green, or something).
You can't use those as reliable resources, unless it happens to match similar other planes, or has no special markings (say a generic camo on a 109f, which was semi-standard) or some other reason.
You just can't justify skinning this plane. I'd have done it years ago if I could have.
-
If you do it with a yellow cowl/rudder, that profile isn't the best. It's not technically accurate with shape and certain elements, and the colors look off (going by Marseille's sandgelb one above it).
Here are a few others, based off an old decal sheet. I don't have a higher res scan, and mind you the red should probably be yellow.
EDIT You can see there's some variation in the interpretation of the colors. It's probably more similar to the standard splinter scheme. A lot of the early 109F-2s have standard splinter upper, and custom side mottling.
The last two could be affected by lighting.
-
I've seen them from different angles, there's a different color choice at work, as well.
-
"And while I can find no other pictures to corroborate it, I can find no pictures of any of the pilot's aircraft, leading me to believe that it is more likely that this skin is accurate,"
That's a non sequitir. ("it does not follow")
That's not logical at all.
You can't find ANY references of the real plane, so it must be accurate?
I'm sorry but I've run across MANY color profiles that are wrong, inaccurate, poorly colored, you name it! It's an artist interpretation, and the older the book often you run into printing problems where they can't replicate the proper colors (say, turning a grey into nearly black-green, or something).
You can't use those as reliable resources, unless it happens to match similar other planes, or has no special markings (say a generic camo on a 109f, which was semi-standard) or some other reason.
You just can't justify skinning this plane. I'd have done it years ago if I could have.
What I mean was, I have a profile of this aircraft. I have searched for photos to corroborate this. I have found none. I have searched for other aircraft flown by the same pilot, both profiles and photos. Found none. So I have one profile for this, and none against. So unless you consider a lack of corroborating evidence to be proof that it DOESNT exist, whos to say it didnt? In other words, its 1:0 for the skin being real.
Thats not to say I know better than any of you and I insist it does, I simply mean I dont see any reason to believe its wrong, and while all sorts of people have come on saying it doesnt LOOK right, have any of you found pictures or profiles of your own that say its wrong?
Krusty says I shouldnt do it, no response from Fester yet, anyone else have an oppinion as to yes or no? (Not an instigation, I seriously want oppinions)
-
Markings for the Channel Front consisted of Yellow cowlings. At some point they reduced this to the portion under the cowling. Nothing indicates that Red would have been used. I will grant you that one of the photos I posted in that original thread the rudder of the Staffel leader's aircraft looks red.
There is no evidence such a scheme existed. No accounts of "Red Nosed Bastards of Calais" etc etc.
-
Markings for the Channel Front consisted of Yellow cowlings. At some point they reduced this to the portion under the cowling. Nothing indicates that Red would have been used. I will grant you that one of the photos I posted in that original thread the rudder of the Staffel leader's aircraft looks red.
There is no evidence such a scheme existed. No accounts of "Red Nosed Bastards of Calais" etc etc.
So you say 'no'?