Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lasse on February 28, 2001, 02:13:00 AM
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I know that 1.06 not yet is released, and probably HTC already have laid their plans for 1.07, but: (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I really think it is in its place that we get some early planes in AH.(I for one miss them).
The reason for flying early planes are naturally to gain more perkpoints, so they can fly their late war (wet) dream.
Naturally, early planes should earn ALOT more perks when they kill a late war plane, and thus have the odds against them.
So I think the 1.07 release should be an early war release, naturally with the obligatory *perk rides* included (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
So in 1.07 I would be very happy to se:
Spitfire I (With the carburetor overflow modelled)
Hurricane I and II (With the carburetor overflow modelled)
Messerschmitt BF 110
Brewster Buffalo
P40 B Tomahawk
P40 E Kittyhawk
Stuka (Tank killer version)
Junkers JU 52, slow but have (some) guns.
Early Zero
I'm not so into the Italian and russian planes but some of the early versions of these should also be included.
I doubt that we will see such a release, but dang it, it would be cool, I've always been a Early war fan (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Best time of a tour in WB was always the 2-3 first days (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://www.lasse.as/twvl.gif)
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 02-28-2001).]
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*sarcasm mode on*
Oh YES, just what we absolutely NEED!!
MORE US, British, and German aircraft, I mean we are only getting 4-5 of them in this release already, and lets not mention that they already totally dominate the current planeset. MORE, MORE, MORE.
*sarcasm mode off*
Sorry Lasse, not picking on you, its just a sore issue with me. The last thing we need right now, is another heavily Euro dominated planeset release.
The Russian and Japanese planesets are extremely lacking right now, and if we ever want to do Pac or Eastern front Scenarios, they need serious beefing up.
At a minimum we need these types added to the planesets, to flesh out our mid/late war sets before we even begin to think about going back to an early war setup.
Japanese:
Dive bomber - D4Y "Judy"
Torpedo Bomber - B6N "Jill"
Bomber - P1Y "Frances" or Ki-67 "Peggy
Army Fighter - Ki-84 Hayate or Ki-61-II "Tony"
Russian:
Attack Plane - IL-10 or IL-2
Bomber - Pe-2 or Tu-2
Lets be fair to the Italian players too, so how about a G55 Centauro.
And thats just a minimum to run a PAC or Eastern Front. It would also be nice to have the FM2 Wildcat and the S2B Helldiver (ick.. did I say American aircaft (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ) for PAC events.
I don't hate early war stuff, I just want us to finish out the sets we have (so we can do scenarios) before we go off down the early war path.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Verm, we can wait till the plane set will be more balanced (more Japanese and Russian stuff, that is) ... we can wait ... one moment ... hmmmmm ... pfffffffffffffffft ... arghhhhhhhh ... SUPERFLY BRING THE G.55 ASAP !!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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None taken, Vermillion (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I agree, we should absolutely get more of those planes you mention, but my knowledge of those planes is rather small, but we sure should include them.
Quote myself:
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I'm not so into the Italian and Russian planes but some of the early versions of these should also be included.
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Anyway I really miss some early planes, I think those are more fun to fly, more challenging.
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(http://www.lasse.as/twvl.gif)
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 02-28-2001).]
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I believe that the next planes to be added to the arena will be the F86 and the Mig15 They will cost a few perk points tho.
I love the early war planes too lasse but the guns on a Spit one are not even capable of penetrating later war armor. The Zeke we have is a very late war version and it is allmost never used. If not for the carrier it would be totally shelved as would any early war plane introduced. Only the very eccentric would fly em in the current arena. The idiotic perk sytem will just make things worse.
lazs
lazs
[This message has been edited by lazs (edited 02-28-2001).]
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Hey Verm, why a helldiver?
The Dauntless was superior and racked up the most a2g kills in the war if I remember right. (at least on the pacific side)
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Yeah, the Helldiver is pointless for a wide variety of reasons:
1) Wasn't around at all for all of the interesting, balanced CV battles (Coral Sea through Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz.)
2) Was considered one of the great disappointments of the war; hated by pilots, in practical terms it wasn't any more capable than the Dauntless. A real boondoggle.
3) By the time it came out, Dive bombers were basically obsolete; nothing the Helldiver can do, that can't be done by a Corsair even better. Fighters began carrying large bomb loads and taking their jobs. Hence, very late in the war, CV groups were simply getting rid of their divebombers totally in favor of multirole aircraft.
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Why the Helldiver?
1.) Its never been done before (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
2.) The S2B Helldiver fits our mid/late planeset better.
3.) The Helldiver has better guns (20mm on S2B) and armor/passive protection (Dauntless has very little of these)
4.) More Helldivers were used (would need to check hard numbers on this, its just my impression and I could be wrong)
Just my opinon (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I am very fond of the Dauntless though
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Verm,
Why the "Judy" and "Jill" when the "Kate" and "Val" saw much more carrier action?
I agree with Lasse, I would love to see many more early war planes for scenario purposes but I've been aching for a reenactment of the Battle for Midway now that we got carriers! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
All we need are the Kates and Vals and the F4F and F2A! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Im all for early war planes...just gimme scenario fodder!
-Ding
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IMO Dauntless is a better choice for scenarios as it was used by USAAF and USN in just about every theatre excpet ETO.
But the "Beast" was a better plane, on paper anyway. As we do not model manufacturing defects many of it's detracting <cough> graces would not be a problem. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
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<Dream mode on>
Mmmm, I can't wait for this war to progress into another server with a Korea War theme. Must...fly....super....sabre. ...
While these planes we have are great, Im really itching for all the great gameplay we have in here, but with jets. No one has really made a good early jet game (the most recent one by Empire really sucked). Just imagine the crying a poor jet driver would do if any part of his loooong runway were fragged (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm not asking for F-15s and F-16s (yet!) but MiG 15s, F-86's, Scorpions and such....mmmm...maybe someday.
<Dream mode off>
I'm sorry, I seem to have drifted off, what were we talking about (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Paul J. Busiere
Aces High Arena handle: BD5Pilot
http://bd5.checksix.net (http://bd5.checksix.net)
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)
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Dingy, for the same basic reasons as the Helldiver.
They go better with rest of the planesets which is centered around mid/late war.
The Kate and Val weren't used more, its just that they were used more in the "famous" carrier battles. ie Pearl Harbor, Coral Sea & Midway.
Really it all just goes with the idea of fleshing out the set you have, THEN going back and starting to model all the early war stuff from BoB to Midway.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
The Kate and Val weren't used more, its just that they were used more in the "famous" carrier battles. ie Pearl Harbor, Coral Sea & Midway.
Really it all just goes with the idea of fleshing out the set you have, THEN going back and starting to model all the early war stuff from BoB to Midway.
Well I understand your viewpoint, Verm and agree to some extent BUT....
If we really want to get some good Pacific scenarios going, I'd love to see those planes. Im just starting to get a little (ok Im getting ALOT) bored with the MA and was looking to get involved in another scenario.
-Ding
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Dingy wrote:
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...Im just starting to get a little (ok Im getting ALOT) bored with the MA ...
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I was bored with the MA before I even installed AH on my machine.
anRky
-Ih8ubb
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Well guys, all I can say, is that baring catastrophic problems, the next scenario should be announced soon. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Torgo, I agree that the HellDiver was not any more capable (as a whole) than the Dauntless.
And I also agree that late in the war, heavy fighters (F4U's, P51's, P47,P38's) were more effective and also had the benefit of being multirole. But that "benefit" in real life, turns into "detriment" in many scenarios.
The way I see it, and I'm sure some will disagree, using heavy fighters instead of a dedicated attack aircraft is bad.
As a scenario designer, you try and establish you "target" forcebalance, and then everything else is designed around that. Rules, Points, pretty much everything. The problem becomes that the heavy fighter-bombers can rapidly, and at need, fit into either "fighter" or "attack" categories. Thereby throwing the forcebalances off.
In many scenarios, the CO is then tempted to use them in a manner that disrupts the intended framework.
If however, you keep them in dedicated attack craft, they are not tempted to use their "attack" planes in a fighter role, but keep them in the role they were designed for.
Does that make sense? I know I'm rambling.
Just a personal design philosophy. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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My uncle told me they used to call the sb2c helldiver the "SOB 2nd class." (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It also was harder to conrol in a dive than the dauntless.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Thats why I dont like to see that AH is concentrating on late war planes straight from the start.
I would love to see early spits, hurricanes, p-38's, p-39's , p-40's, early russian, italian and french & other kites, etc etc.
But as someone said, they would rot in the hangar.
I think it would be very fun to have the game "introduce" planes as they historically came...
Say, from 30 days of a tour, the first 10 days would introduce early war planes, next 10 days introduce mid war planes, last 10 days introduce late war.
Say, day 1 starts with
p-39 p40 & early models of buffs for the US
Spit 1 Hurr 1 & early buff models for Brits
Early zeke & another early fighter & early buff for the Japanese
202 and that fiat biplane & early buff for Italy
109E + any other early war fighter & early buff for Germany.
Imagine flying your P-40 against early 109's and zekes on day 6 of the tour and then the server announces that the early version of the P-47 is now avaliable... and so on. The arena would be very fluid and balanced in such a case.
Hey, HTC could even make surprises and hide an me262 in a volcano at random and have the person that parachutes and touches the plane be able to fly it LOL (ok maybe not hehe.. imagine the "tourist" flying dweebs flying recon to spot such planes on day 1 of the game)
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Verm, I want H8K2 "Emily" in v1.07. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Emily should be the first flying boat in Aces High! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-Mitsu
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I agree Mitsu.
I've been pushing for that for some time now. I'd like to see the Japanese get the first flying boat and I think that the H8K2 "Emily" would be the best choice by far.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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tac... forget it. An RPS has been done many times. It just pisses people off. At best it makes half the people angry. We can't keep doing the same things and expecting different results.
lazs
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At least it seems that most people have an opinion about this issue, and that is good, no matter what your opinion are (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
If we get a flying boat, I would prefere a Catalina, but any flying boat would be nice, as I dont know of any flightsim that models this good.
We could use the flying boat to capture ports and / or rescue downed pilots(for a ton of perks, or so) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I think it is sad, but I am pretty shure that we wont get a rolling planeset in AH, at least it dont seems like that after what HTC gives impression of when asked in the arena (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
But, I do believe there is a natural way to implent early war planes to AH, I just dont know how yet........
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(http://www.lasse.as/twvl.gif)
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 02-28-2001).]
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lasse,
Look up the data on the H8K2 "Emily". Its much better than the PBY.
The Americans got the navy first. The Germans got jets first. The Americans and Germans got ground forces at the same time.
Lets have the Japanese get the first flying boat.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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Is that what RPS is? What does RPS stand for really? Real Plane Set? what?
Im not saying that one side should be allies, one be axis.. just saying both sides get the same planes at the same intervals. It gives early war kites their time and the players get more "sim" because their planes get upgraded every now and then.
Who here didnt just LOVE when ACES OF THE PACIFIC told you that a new improved model of your favourite plane was being brought into service? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Only reason I would prefere the PBY is that I built one as an model once (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But I`ll check out the Emily, I won`t protest, if we get it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
RPS stands for "Rolling plane set".
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(http://www.lasse.as/twvl.gif)
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 02-28-2001).]
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lasse,
I built one as well. It is a neat looking aircraft, better looking than the H8K2.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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I hope that HTC gives us a reason to use flying boats....either SAR or re-supply/transport or something.
I would also love to see some more early war types, but I agree that the late war set needs to be 'finished' first. Would be great to see an online sim ( or any sim for that matter) model the CAC19 Boomerang...all Aussie designed and built, tough as nails, armed to the teeth( for a plane of its size) yet hopelessly outclassed by contempory Japanese types, all that on top of being downright ugly and brutish looking, and you have my idea of a great plane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Some more German bombers would be nice too, at LEAST one variant of Hurricane, a Beaufighter, P40N,.....and what about a Spit VIII, commonly acknowledged as 'the nicest of all Spits to fly and fight in'.< in Aussie roundels with Glenn Cooper's 'Grey Nurse' markings would do just fine (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Oh....and a B25 or several too please.
Some recon/FAC aircraft.....and a reason to use them would be great too. Maybe make it that a two seat recon plane over a target could transmit EXACT co-ordinates to the fleet guns with a mouse-click....IF you have an observer onboard, and someone manning the fleet guns in co-operation.....mebbe a '.spot for xxxxxx' command or something.
Anyway, I'm not complaining, been playing this game for 6 months or so now, and it just keeps on getting better and better (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) WTFG HTC!!! and thanks for the many, many hours of fun.
<S> Blue
Kampfgeschwader 200
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Here's the REAL reason I want to see early war planes modeled:
I'm imagining a rotating planeset arena (pick a theatre, any theatre) where each week was equivalent to one year in the war. The planeset would slowly rotate forward using... PERK POINTS.
If the arena is set to 'late in the year' you could either fly the earlier year models, or you could spend a few (not too many) perk points to upgrade to the latest and greatest planes. It would keep the mix going, as opposed to everyone grabbing the newest planes ASAP.
And it would keep the perk points 'churning' throughout the month and a half it would take for the war to run it's course.
~Lemur
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Planes to allow historic scenarios should be a high priority IMO, we need a mid/late war PAC set and more Soviet equipment.
The terrains for PNG/Solomans and Stalingrad are 99.9% ready for use.
T-34 tank
IL-10
Stuka with 37mm gunpods
F4F/FM2
SBD Dauntless
B-25H
Ki-61
Val
Betty
Ki-84
Adding these planes in addition to the current set would give the CM Corps a lot of flexibility in designing events and might even make the MA a bit more entertaining. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Sunderland!
We NEED a Sunderland!
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The **MOL**
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AT6/SNJ (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Good ole Texan...great for the training arena.
<S>IC
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I'm with Iculus, I want a AT-6 Texan (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Why? You ask.
Because then when the Flight Model debates begin and someone says, "Have YOU actually flown one??"
I will (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) and say......
YES I HAVE !!
Thats me in the front seat (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://www.vermin.net/pics/mefly.jpg)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Did the Texan ever see any type of combat, or is it designed with only training in mind ?
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(http://www.lasse.as/twvl.gif)
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 03-01-2001).]
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Jihad has it nailed. IMHO, that planeset he mentions would open up huge possibilities for scenarios.
And the Emily, of course. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Why the G4M "Betty" or the "Emily" either one?
Both would get slaughtered easily in scenarios and arena alike, and therefore never flown. At least the "Peggy" and "Frances" are both somewhat surviveable.
Asking people to fly Betties in Scenarios is like asking people to voluntarily take a kick in the nuts. Its really cruel
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Vermillion,
Why would the "Emily" get slaughtered?
Its tough, well armored, well gunned and has four engines.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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A lanc is about a defensible as an Emily. How long does an unescorted or straggler lanc last in a scenario or the MA? Emily's don't fly in fomations... Verm's right.. Emily and the PBY would be small parts about a minute after they get spotted.
Did somebody mention korea?? Who needs a damn jet when yah have THIS?? 4 20mm and more air to ground iorn than a B17. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://www.kithobbyist.com/kfir/AD-4/ad-4.jpg)
Would love ta tell a mig jock 'You've just been had by a "Spad"; dad.' (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hang
1st/AG "Bishlanders" << Recruiting!!
"Turn to kill, not to engage."
Commander 'Willie' Driscoll, USNR
[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 03-01-2001).]
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Emily has heavier guns than a Lanc, and that landing on water part can really throw off a vulch (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But seriously, with 1.06, there are only what? 2-3 planes left that one cannot argue would be totally outclassed? (leaving out the extreme ends of the group guys,)
Should they stop putting planes in once they have all the " IT came from the late,late Show" versions?
I'm one of the above-mentioned crazies, I lobbied for the bf110 in WB, and flew it when we got it,ditto the P40, put them in here, yeah they have a snowball's chance in hell, so what? not like I'm all that anyway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
With nothing but late war rides abounding, the perk system will be chasing it's own tail in about 2 TOD's IMHO, After all, why chase perk points for a plane that's only marginally superior to the nonperked?
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"