Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wraith on March 16, 2008, 02:29:03 PM
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Alright, i've been flying AH for about 2-3 years now, and i've flown mostly American muscle planes. I've started to fly Spits in the last 6 months, primarily the VIII. I was wondering, the Spit 5 has great turning and speed, but is it viable for mission? It only has two guns, which worries me as well. My question is: Is the speed and turning capability of the 5 worth giving up the guns and fuel range of the 8?
Constructive Comments only please.
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I've flown both quite a bit and prefer the 8 myself. I prefer the guns over the slightly better turning radius.
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Alright, i've been flying AH for about 2-3 years now, and i've flown mostly American muscle planes. I've started to fly Spits in the last 6 months, primarily the VIII. I was wondering, the Spit 5 has great turning and speed, but is it viable for mission? It only has two guns, which worries me as well. My question is: Is the speed and turning capability of the 5 worth giving up the guns and fuel range of the 8?
Constructive Comments only please.
i've never flown the 8....but i do like the 5, 9, and 16....those are the only three that i've flown. i don't normally have trouble getting kills in any of them, although if i go furballin, it seems that the 16 is a bad spit to have......
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The 16 is bad to furball with? Because?
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The 16 is bad to furball with? Because?
Spit16 is the first plane I pick if Im over a furball. I'm sure the same go's for most people, so being in a Spit16 is probably a lead magnet.
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Not a problem if it's faster than people's lead.
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...It only has two guns, which worries me as well. My question is: Is the speed and turning capability of the 5 worth giving up the guns and fuel range of the 8?
The spit 5 and 8 have the same gun package: 2 x 20mm Hispano & 4 x .303 Browning MGs. The only difference is the 5 has only 60 rds for each 20mm while the 8 has 120 rds/20mm.
The ultimate answer to your question is yes, the 8 (or even the 9 for that matter) are worthy upgrades from the 5.
Regards,
Hammer
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The spit 5 and 8 have the same gun package: 2 x 20mm Hispano & 4 x .303 Browning MGs. The only difference is the 5 has only 60 rds for each 20mm while the 8 has 120 rds/20mm.
The ultimate answer to your question is yes, the 8 (or even the 9 for that matter) are worthy upgrades from the 5.
Regards,
Hammer
But, doesnt the 5 have the older, heavier Hispanos with the longer barrel (therefor more accurate)?
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Personally i think the 8 is the best overall Spitfire we've got.
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How are any of the spits superior to the 16, in a dogfight?
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How are any of the spits superior to the 16, in a dogfight?
1.) None of the Spits should dogfight, leave it to the Zero and sometimes F4U's.
2.) Spit 5, 8, and 9 can all turn tighter than a 16, a 16 just has a better roll on it, which means it can change direction fast, but not necessarily turn as fast.
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How are any of the spits superior to the 16, in a dogfight?
They use R-R Merlin engines while the 16 uses Packard Merlins. :devil
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Huh? Spitfires dogfight great...
If you mean none of them should ONLY do flat turns, then you'd be right. Spitfires can be pretty decent energy fighters because of their quick acceleration and very little loss of speed in the tightest turns. The Spitfire XIV however, is a totally different plane. I don't like to fly it at all as it's nothing like the traditional Spitfires.
But the VIII is more mission-worthy because of its better versatility and ability to E-fight (which is pretty much a dogfight as it is a way of getting angles). The V is my favourite Spitfire simply b.c it's a 'traditional' spitfire and it's fun to fly but it's not going to do much for you other than defend a horde of enemies attacking a base. It's mostly just a TnB'er though it can E-fight to some extent versus something like an A6M which has worse dive speed, zoom and level speed.
But flying the P-38J right now, I think the Spitfire's got itself in for trouble versus the real vetical E-fighting crowd.
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But, doesnt the 5 have the older, heavier Hispanos with the longer barrel (therefor more accurate)?
I don't believe so. The only different Hispanos I'm aware of are on the Tempest. Those are Hispano Vs. I'm pretty sure all the rest are Hispano IIs.
regards,
Hammer
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Spit16 is the first plane I pick if Im over a furball. I'm sure the same go's for most people, so being in a Spit16 is probably a lead magnet.
Umm..that would be the P47 :D
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The 16 is bad to furball with? Because?
well......i may have not said that correctly. i love furballing in the 16. the problem i seem to have, is that....say for intance there's 9 bogies in the furball, and 3 or 4 friendlies.......i pull in on the 6 of one of hte bogies, and it seems as though the other 8 are suddenly intent on my spixteen...almost ignoring the other friendlies.....and i do get check six's from the friendlies as they're trying to clear my tail when i break off my target. i very much love the 20mm/50cal combo in her too,.,,,,,,,
but it almost seems as i get no special attention from the enemy if i'm in a hurri, any other version besides the 16, or any of the american rides.,,,,,,
<<S>>
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Not a problem if it's faster than people's lead.
that's why it IS a problem when i fly it in furballs.......when i saddle up almost anything cept a zeke, i eventually get the kill. but it seems to me that no matter what saddles me, i cannot for the life of me shake them off. kinda like a lead magnet :O
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How are any of the spits superior to the 16, in a dogfight?
my understanding was that the 5, 9, and i think 8 will all roll quicker, giving them a better initial turn rate?
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The 5 gives' the impression of better turn rate because it's slower than the others, therefore, It's instant turn rate is better. It might be a slightly steadier gun platform as well.
[But flying the P-38J right now, I think the Spitfire's got itself in for trouble versus the real vetical E-fighting crowd. /quote]
A Spit will almost helicopter on it's prop like a N1K. In the right hands, a spit can dominate a vertical fight. Not quite like a 109, but close.
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well......i may have not said that correctly. i love furballing in the 16. the problem i seem to have, is that....say for intance there's 9 bogies in the furball, and 3 or 4 friendlies.......i pull in on the 6 of one of hte bogies, and it seems as though the other 8 are suddenly intent on my spixteen...almost ignoring the other friendlies.....and i do get check six's from the friendlies as they're trying to clear my tail when i break off my target. i very much love the 20mm/50cal combo in her too,.,,,,,,,
but it almost seems as i get no special attention from the enemy if i'm in a hurri, any other version besides the 16, or any of the american rides.,,,,,,
<<S>>
Perhaps thats because everyone hates Spixteens because EVERYONE flies them, and they are so easy to kill with... I know I always target spixteens, la-7s and P-51s first.
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Perhaps thats because everyone hates Spixteens because EVERYONE flies them, and they are so easy to kill with... I know I always target spixteens, la-7s and P-51s first.
that was the impresion i get.......i'm slowly working my way out of spits to other rides...had some succes with the hellkitty, and a little luck with the ponyb...but when i need to kill fast, it's bakc to the "easy button" planes.....zeke, spits, and hurris.........hope to get into the 38 soon.......
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that's why it IS a problem when i fly it in furballs.......when i saddle up almost anything cept a zeke, i eventually get the kill. but it seems to me that no matter what saddles me, i cannot for the life of me shake them off. kinda like a lead magnet :O
That was sort of a word play.. You can't outrun their lead but you can outrun their lead. The spit16 is agile enough that you can out pace pretty much any other plane in the game. The zekes might turn tighter, but if you aren't bleeding your E you will out pace them too.
my understanding was that the 5, 9, and i think 8 will all roll quicker, giving them a better initial turn rate?
The 16 is the fastest rolling spit, and by far IIRC.
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5 , 8 , 9 are my favourites. The spit 8 is the best all round due to fuel longevity. The 9 is probably the best overall furballer. The 16 is a monster but its weak point is slow speed turns compared to the 8 and 9.
If you want to accumulate some perks the spit 5 is great the 9 isnt bad either at 20 eny.
When you have enough perks try the spit 14 with some altitude. This baby is different from all the rest but its great fun running down various luftwobbly planes :D
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Why is the Spit XVI better than the Spit IX? They were basically the same airframe but powered by engines from different manufactures.
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It's that much more dextrous, and being lighter means it can take the same bends as the (if I understand correctly) more powerful models with minimal speed loss.
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Spitfire Mk Vb has two Hispano Mk Is, all other Spitfires have two Hispano Mk IIs. The difference between the Hispano I and II is that the I is drum fed and can be unjammed by hand (not accessable in the Spit's wing) and the II is belt fed and had the manual unjamming mechanism removed. The barrels are exactly the same.
Also, you aren't giving any speed up going from the V to the VIII, you are gaining lots of speed, acceleration, climb, ammo and some fuel for the loss of some turning ability.
Why is the Spit XVI better than the Spit IX? They were basically the same airframe but powered by engines from different manufactures.
That would be the clipped LF.IX with a Merlin 66. We have an early Mk IX with a Merlin 61, so it is significantly lower performing at most AH combat alts. Better above 20ish thousand feet.
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Why is the Spit XVI better than the Spit IX? They were basically the same airframe but powered by engines from different manufactures.
1943 Merlin 61 Spit FIX and a 1945 Merlin 266 in the LFXVI. More Boost available in the XVI I believe. It's got a lower alt rated engine etc. The IX isn't that far behind. The LFVIII we have is right between them performance wise with its merlin 66.
For whatever reason the VIII feels like the best of them to me. Doesn't roll as fast as the XVI but feels more stable and less apt to drop a wing if you are really hauling it in a turn.
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Perhaps thats because everyone hates Spixteens because EVERYONE flies them, and they are so easy to kill with... I know I always target spixteens, la-7s and P-51s first.
We're still waiting on your "Uber-UFO Spitfire Mk XVI" film....
ack-ack
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Well, being the long-time Spit guy that I am here's the (partial) lowdown:
In terms of turn rate (best to worse): Spit I, Spit V, Spit IX, Seafire, Spit VIII, Spit XVI, Spit XIV
In terms of speed (fastest to slowest): Spit XIV, Spit XVI, Spit VIII, Spit IX, Seafire, Spit V, Spit I
The I has 8x.303's. The XIV and XVI have 2x20's and 2x50's. The others all have 2x20's and 4x.303's.
The XVI rolls the best but it is the worst stall-fighter as it's not as stable as the others, but once you get used to where the instability is it's just fine. The XIV is also bad but it wasn't designed for stall-fighting.
Every one of them is a fine ride in the LW MA's, including the lowly, oft-forgotten Spit I.
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Spit8 vs Spit16: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=U5Q8GTK2
First fight shows what IMO only the 16 can pull off - spiraling out of the top of a loop with minimal altitude loss and a very quick change of direction. I could probably do it really well if I knew the plane better; it's certainly capable of it.
Second fight shows the 16's longer legs. Barbossa beat me more often than not in the series of fights we had, but it was clear everytime that the 16 can speed itself out of the way much more easily than the 8 can.
I agree with 2Bighorn that the 16 and 8 have two things versus one another, roll and light weight (~350 lbs) for the 16 and more lift and (hmmmm... :P) for the 8, but that the 16 edges it out.
In his opinion the 16 only edges it out, but although I now think it's less superior to the 8 than I used to, I still think it's a pretty substantial margin.. I think the 16 is bar-none the best furballer in the game.
I certainly don't think it's the worst stall fighter spit. That's probably the V or IX, if I understand correctly that the VIII is better than those two. The 16 is just too quick for the lesser amount of lift to be a real handicap. And it's definitely light enough that you can throw it around to great effect, which the others don't cope with as well, in my experience.
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...more lift and (hmmmm... :P)
a LOT more stability when things get really slow.
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The 16 is still more agile. It'll spin out sooner but will usualy get at least one shot before then.
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a LOT more stability when things get really slow.
Whilst on paper, there's not much to chose between VIII and XVI, in one area XVI is considerably better, and that's the roll. It means a world of difference in slow and tight fight.
Also, I'm sure you're aware about relationship between maneuverability and stability.
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I also believe that the SpitVIII is more stable when flirting with a stall, and noticeably less prone to the hated snap-stall into a flat spin routine. The SpitVIII also turns smaller, quicker circles than the SpitXVI. That said, the SpitXVI's ability to change lift vectors much faster than the Mk.VIII gives it the better chance for a killing shot before stability enters the equation.
Either one is a killer...
My regards,
Widewing
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Not arguing manouverability (although the VIII's still not bad). Moot simply couldn't find another advantage that the VIII had over the XVI so I pointed one out.
When the stall buzzer is blaring in your ear you can pull the VIII much further into the buffet than the XVI without fear of a snap-roll or loss of stability, and at that speed the XVI's roll advantage is lost. It's pretty hard to utilize roll-rate effectively when you can barely control the direction of the lift vector to keep you in flight, at least on or near the deck.
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Depends what you're looking for in a fighter. I like XVI's instability and I like how XVI snaps. It can be thrown around like there's no tomorrow. Roll, don't mention it. As WW pointed out, It can be used to rapidly change lift vector.
VIII is so much more stable it almost feels like flying through cement.
I'd say VIII is good choice for less experienced pilots, XVI will shine in the right hands tho...
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1.) None of the Spits should dogfight, leave it to the Zero and sometimes F4U's.
:rofl
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Well, being the long-time Spit guy that I am here's the (partial) lowdown:
In terms of turn rate (best to worse): Spit I, Spit V, Spit IX, Seafire, Spit VIII, Spit XVI, Spit XIV
In terms of speed (fastest to slowest): Spit XIV, Spit XVI, Spit VIII, Spit IX, Seafire, Spit V, Spit I
The I has 8x.303's. The XIV and XVI have 2x20's and 2x50's. The others all have 2x20's and 4x.303's.
The XVI rolls the best but it is the worst stall-fighter as it's not as stable as the others, but once you get used to where the instability is it's just fine. The XIV is also bad but it wasn't designed for stall-fighting.
Every one of them is a fine ride in the LW MA's, including the lowly, oft-forgotten Spit I.
I totally second that, a spit9 will own both spit8 and 16 in an all out turnfight, it just feels like it has more lifft than a 16 and less weight than a spit8. The seafire is good but will suffer from it's heavier wings at some point. I have no data to prove this, its just an observation as a spitIX pilot :)