Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Wingnutt on March 17, 2008, 01:55:36 PM
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how far away can an enemy that you shot be, and die and you still get credit?
reason for asking being that I shot a 234 in my 190.. but he got my engine with his butt gun, so I glided back to base and sat on the runway...
he was dead stick doing 200mph headed out over the ocean at about 3,000 feet.. about 1.5 sectors away from his nearest possible landing point.. I watched his dot on radar moving painfully slow before id disappeared (below 300ft)
sat on the runway for a while waiting for him to EF.. nothing.. had a squaddie go look for him... couldent find him.. sat a while longer.. nothing..
finally towered out after 20 min.
is there a set distance or time limit on when your eligable to get a kill..
I though that if you pinged someone.. and they bailed, ditched or crashed before you landed/ditched/crashed.. you would get credit (kill/assist) but this doesent seem to be the case, not with the 234 at least..
can anyone clear this up?
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He probably got into friendly airspace and got a ditch.
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Once you have pinged him, you will get credit for assist/kill if your enemy dies, regardless of distance.
In this case however, your enemy may just have ditched. No credit in such a case.
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sat on the runway for a while waiting for him to EF.. nothing.. had a squaddie go look for him... couldent find him.. sat a while longer.. nothing..
finally towered out after 20 min.
:rofl
You were idling there 20 min? ROFL In that time you could get few more kills...
What's the matter with people?
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:rofl
What's the matter with people?
They expect their kills to be served on a silver platter.
ack-ack
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They expect their kills to be served on a silver platter.
ack-ack
Although I agree with bighorn and Ack-Ack, I did chuckle a bit when he said the 234 got his engine with his "butt gun" :)
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2bighorn.
Some people can hammer out 3-6 kills in a single flight, while others fly for a week and get not a single landed kill.
This is truth, so understand it may just be another "kill" to you and i, for him, it may be a reason to keep playin' the game.
Not everyone is the best stick, if he wanted the credit he had every right to stay there, and honestly..if i saw it i would have fallowed his orders to investigate his kill.
More likely then not, the pilot sat his bird down in the water, out of his space and your's
Hance no one got the kill, because it was a ditch in "international ;) waters"
Right wrong or indiffrent, i have set on the runway meny a time waiting for those kills, lucky for me, they came.
But i have also landed, and taken off "only to get assist/kills" from people i banged up the flight before.
it all just depends who hits the ground first, and whos "spawned" when your kills hit the ground.
If your in tower, and two planes finaly crash get shot down or auger in, you wont get the kills.
But even if you land, re-up you will.
And im spent.
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Some people can hammer out 3-6 kills in a single flight, while others fly for a week and get not a single landed kill.
This is truth, so understand it may just be another "kill" to you and i, for him, it may be a reason to keep playin' the game.
Sitting on the runway won't make him better.
he had every right to stay there
Well, there's no law against farting in restaurant either, yet...
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...In this case however, your enemy may just have ditched. No credit in such a case.
answer given, thread finished :aok
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LOL..
im not exactly a "bad stick"
pretty damn good actually if I do say so myself, I have no problem whatsoever "hammering out kills"
I figured since he was dead stick, and I was dead stick.. I would just wait a few, might aswell get the kill after chasing the bastard around for so long and getting butt gunned..
the extended length of my runway stay was not me just sitting there glaring at the screen yelling "cmon.. cmon dammit. cmon!" I landed, and went and started a load of laundry, and put some steaks out to unthaw, came back.. and exited..
SO the answer to my question is..
you get the kill if
A: he died/bails
B: ditches in hostile territory..
you DO not get a kill if
A: he ditches in friendly territory.
so.. what is the deciding factor of the location of the ditch being friendly or hostile?
distance from nearest friendly airfield? distance from nearest con? etc etc
as so often, an answer creates another question
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2bighorn.
Some people can hammer out 3-6 kills in a single flight, while others fly for a week and get not a single landed kill.
This is truth, so understand it may just be another "kill" to you and i, for him, it may be a reason to keep playin' the game.
Not everyone is the best stick, if he wanted the credit he had every right to stay there, and honestly..if i saw it i would have fallowed his orders to investigate his kill.
More likely then not, the pilot sat his bird down in the water, out of his space and your's
Hance no one got the kill, because it was a ditch in "international ;) waters"
Right wrong or indiffrent, i have set on the runway meny a time waiting for those kills, lucky for me, they came.
But i have also landed, and taken off "only to get assist/kills" from people i banged up the flight before.
it all just depends who hits the ground first, and whos "spawned" when your kills hit the ground.
If your in tower, and two planes finaly crash get shot down or auger in, you wont get the kills.
But even if you land, re-up you will.
And im spent.
There is a lot of sense in that post which all too often i don't even consider when playing. Some of us have been here too long to appreciate what it is like for a new guy to get a kill.
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There is a lot of sense in that post which all too often i don't even consider when playing. Some of us have been here too long to appreciate what it is like for a new guy to get a kill.
True, but on the other side, sitting on the runway for extended period of time, just to get that kill, equals to those jobless people leeching off of welfare instead of looking for a job.
As in life, initiative means a lot in this game. Whether vet, or just inexperienced two weeker, more likely then not, kills come with effort.
Anyways, Wingnutt explained those 20 minutes (laundry, steaks), so he's OK :aok
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Doesn't matter if he ditched or not, if rounds hit him, it should have been a kill.
Unless he wasn't deadstick. Just because oil comes from the engines doesn't mean they have stopped functioning. He could have simply left your dar ring. 1.5 sectors is within limping home range for many planes, and chances are he just simply made it back and landed.
The other alternative is that he ditched too, and sat there longer than you did. You towered out first.
I wouldn't suggest sitting on the runway that long. Either you got the kill or he got away. Once he's out of the sector you've lost your shot. The kill message at that point is shallow. Heck I might like the pleasant surprise, but I'm not going to sit there more than 5-10 minutes, and only if I know I critically damaged the bombers I just attacked (i.e. waiting for them to die).
Other than that, just tower. He got away.
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Doesn't matter if he ditched or not, if rounds hit him, it should have been a kill.
Unless he wasn't deadstick. Just because oil comes from the engines doesn't mean they have stopped functioning. He could have simply left your dar ring. 1.5 sectors is within limping home range for many planes, and chances are he just simply made it back and landed.
The other alternative is that he ditched too, and sat there longer than you did. You towered out first.
I wouldn't suggest sitting on the runway that long. Either you got the kill or he got away. Once he's out of the sector you've lost your shot. The kill message at that point is shallow. Heck I might like the pleasant surprise, but I'm not going to sit there more than 5-10 minutes, and only if I know I critically damaged the bombers I just attacked (i.e. waiting for them to die).
Other than that, just tower. He got away.
he was for sure dead stick. either from engine damage or the fuel leak.. in retrospect I think he ran out of fuel, after I did the initial damage.. a smoking engine and a fuel leak.. I chased him ,with him slowly pulling away.. until abruptly I started gaining FAST.. when I caught him he was doing well under 300, even 1 engine would have kept his speed up better than that, he lost too much speed too quickly to have been on 1 engine..
in the film viewer.. his gauges are blank :( and there is no sound, but I can be fairly sure, based on the fact that he was so slow and in a shallow dive no less, that he was without and sort of power whatsoever..
I guess he could have shut off his engines.. but this makes no sense considering at the time I had no damage and was pressing the attack...
maybe he will read this and post his film..
I have horrible luck with 234s :furious
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As general FYI only your instruments will display, never another plane's.
In a 262 it's hard to keep even 300mph with 1 engine dead. You slow down and become totally vulnerable. I think you would hear it in the film viewer, though, so you may be right.
He may have glided, he may have been on auto afk or something, and glided into a ditch, and sat there. You probably just towered before he did.
IMO, you don't see him die, don't assume he will ;)
I've made it back with impossible damage several times m'self :D
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As general FYI only your instruments will display, never another plane's.
In a 262 it's hard to keep even 300mph with 1 engine dead. You slow down and become totally vulnerable. I think you would hear it in the film viewer, though, so you may be right.
He may have glided, he may have been on auto afk or something, and glided into a ditch, and sat there. You probably just towered before he did.
IMO, you don't see him die, don't assume he will ;)
I've made it back with impossible damage several times m'self :D
Yea, im usually not so obsessed.. but every time I seem to come across a 234 in a "cant go wrong" situation.. it does.. lets see.. ive lost a 262 to the butt guns, if fired over 2000 rounds from a jug into a formation.. giving ALL of them smoking engines and fuel leaks, only to be ammo dry with nothing to show for it.. now this..
234s have a stigma for me.. they must all die, at any cost..
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Doesn't matter if he ditched or not, if rounds hit him, it should have been a kill.
Wrong. That's not the way the game works.
As long as he didn't bail or die no kill will be awarded.
A ditch is never a death. In fact, as far as K/D goes a ditch is considered a landing. If you are in friendly territory you can ditch 12' in front of a guy who just pinged the cr*p out of you and get a succesful ditch. I've done it and had it done to me often enough to know.
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Ditch is above death but below "safe landing" -- it's 0.75 perk multiplier I believe (safe landing being 1.0, death being 0.5).
Also, ditches count as "deaths" in score counting. Check it out on the scores page. It lists ditches, bails, deaths, as similar categories.
I have shot some folks up and they ditched, but this is usually only over their own field. Never out between fields.
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he was for sure dead stick. either from engine damage or the fuel leak.. in retrospect I think he ran out of fuel, after I did the initial damage.. a smoking engine and a fuel leak.. I chased him ,with him slowly pulling away.. until abruptly I started gaining FAST.. when I caught him he was doing well under 300, even 1 engine would have kept his speed up better than that, he lost too much speed too quickly to have been on 1 engine..
in the film viewer.. his gauges are blank :( and there is no sound, but I can be fairly sure, based on the fact that he was so slow and in a shallow dive no less, that he was without and sort of power whatsoever..
I guess he could have shut off his engines.. but this makes no sense considering at the time I had no damage and was pressing the attack...
maybe he will read this and post his film..
I have horrible luck with 234s :furious
Sounds more like he chopped throttle seeing you on his "dead" six so he could that shot on you from his fixxed tailgun. Successfully it sounds like.
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Sounds more like he chopped throttle seeing you on his "dead" six so he could that shot on you from his fixxed tailgun. Successfully it sounds like.
so he chopped throttel 6.0 out and leaving me.. so I could close the gap and shoot him up?
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I think the arena settings limit bullet damage after 3000 meters, could be wrong though.
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Although I agree with bighorn and Ack-Ack, I did chuckle a bit when he said the 234 got his engine with his "butt gun" :)
Estes i see by your avatar your an inker like me? well as long as thats you in your avatar.
if so good to meet ya.
ive been slinging ink since 1988, you?
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Even if you shoot his engines and manage to get both smoking he can still make it 3-4 sectors.
How do you know he was dead stick? IMHO this assumption is wrong. AR234s have more than 1 fuel tank and I rarely see an outright engine kill in a jet, perhaps maybe 1 in 10.
From what youve told me this is what I think happenedafter you two shoot it out. He kills your engine and you pork a tank while getting oils hits on both of his engines. If he is smart he shuts down 1 engine right away and increased his range perhaps 2.5 to 3.0 times the amount with both engines running. Krusty is correct in saying that with only one engine he is down to around 300 mph. On radar this looks marginally faster than a bomber which would appear painfully slow. One thng to consider his if you both were deadstick why did it take so long for him to drop below 200 feet? This is when most likely started a gentle descent to increase is airspeed and become a less visible target.
IMHO he landed safe and sound on his own base.
Ive flown 5 sectors getting oil hit in both engines at altitude in a 234 by a poni. They glide very well compared to some of the prop planes.
Strip(er)
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I think Baldeagl is right and Krusty is wrong.
Ditches DO NOT count against your K/D. I have no idea with respect to kill multiplier.
If a guy ditches a certain distance from you, you get the kill, if far from you, you don't get the kill. What is that distance?
Is it that a ditch in friendly territory=no kill, ditch in enemy territory=kill? ie. if you get a successful ditch there is no kill awarded, if you get a 'captured' then someone gets the kill? I think this is the case.
I banged an enemy plane HARD one night, he was definately going down, and I never got the kill or assist. I'm positive he didn't RTB. We were right near his town. I think that was a ditch that didn't award me the kill.
Finally, despite the detour, no worries on waiting on the kill. I've done it too, but only when I had some other compelling reason to hang around (ie. beer run, pee break, etc).
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im not exactly a "bad stick"
pretty damn good actually if I do say so myself, I have no problem whatsoever "hammering out kills"
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sat on the runway for a while waiting for him to EF.. nothing.. had a squaddie go look for him... couldent find him.. sat a while longer.. nothing..
finally towered out after 20 min.
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You're giving yourself too much credit.
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Even if you shoot his engines and manage to get both smoking he can still make it 3-4 sectors.
How do you know he was dead stick? IMHO this assumption is wrong. AR234s have more than 1 fuel tank and I rarely see an outright engine kill in a jet, perhaps maybe 1 in 10.
From what youve told me this is what I think happenedafter you two shoot it out. He kills your engine and you pork a tank while getting oils hits on both of his engines. If he is smart he shuts down 1 engine right away and increased his range perhaps 2.5 to 3.0 times the amount with both engines running. Krusty is correct in saying that with only one engine he is down to around 300 mph. On radar this looks marginally faster than a bomber which would appear painfully slow. One thng to consider his if you both were deadstick why did it take so long for him to drop below 200 feet? This is when most likely started a gentle descent to increase is airspeed and become a less visible target.
IMHO he landed safe and sound on his own base.
Ive flown 5 sectors getting oil hit in both engines at altitude in a 234 by a poni. They glide very well compared to some of the prop planes.
Strip(er)
well after damaging him, he did fly 3 or 4 sectors, making a looong loop, with me chasing him, all the while him pulling from D800 to 6.0 out (me in a D9) then (as I expected) I started to gain on him VERY rapidly.
also, i watched the film in the viewer.. he had NO power.. he had to maintain a shallow dive to stay around 250..
at only 3k alt and 250mph, I dont car how well you glide, your not going to make it THAT far back.
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You're giving yourself too much credit.
:lol
you even read all the posts?, apparently not.
1: I do quite well in a fighter, very well considering ive only been flying a few tours.
2: I only sat for so long because frankly I had nothing better to do..
Orange was full and there were a wopping 20 people in blue..
so I landed, and did a few hosue errands while a squaddie went looking for the stricken 234..
any other time, this would probably not have transpired.. but considering the slim pickings at the time, and the fact that I was bored..
it did.
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I was maintaining 300+ last night on one engine in a 234....
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:lol
you even read all the posts?, apparently not.
I did. You're claiming "to be a damn good stick" and then previously state "I sat on a runway for 20 minutes."
Sorry, my comprehension is not the one in question. Your "claims" on the other hand have been.
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Ditch is above death but below "safe landing" -- it's 0.75 perk multiplier I believe (safe landing being 1.0, death being 0.5).
Also, ditches count as "deaths" in score counting. Check it out on the scores page. It lists ditches, bails, deaths, as similar categories.
No it does not. A "ditch" is never counted as death. "Deaths" for purposes of score = bails, deaths, captures and disco's (the latter one being 1/2 death).
Is it that a ditch in friendly territory=no kill, ditch in enemy territory=kill? ie. if you get a successful ditch there is no kill awarded, if you get a 'captured' then someone gets the kill?
Exactly. A "ditch" is when you bring down your plane in friendly territory. Go down in enemy territory and you get a "captured". In this case, if somebody pinged you and is still up, he'll get the kill.
Whether a particular spot is friendly or not is determined alone by what the closest enemy base is. Strategic targets do not count, but CV's do.
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I did. You're claiming "to be a damn good stick" and then previously state "I sat on a runway for 20 minutes."
Sorry, my comprehension is not the one in question. Your "claims" on the other hand have been.
I sat on the runway because I had to put laundry from the washer to the dryer and take a steak out of the freezer, make a marinade, and do some other cooking prep.. I didnt sit there with my weener in my hand for 20 min glaring at the screen.
and considering my limited time flying (a few tours) I do pretty well for myself in a fighter.
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Whether a particular spot is friendly or not is determined alone by what the closest enemy base is. Strategic targets do not count, but CV's do.
Are you sure? I thought it was solely controlled by whether or not an enemy was within icon range. In a GV I think I've gotten "You have landed safely" messages deep in enemy territory when no enemy cons were present.
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Are you sure? I thought it was solely controlled by whether or not an enemy was within icon range. In a GV I think I've gotten "You have landed safely" messages deep in enemy territory when no enemy cons were present.
GV's and planes are different matters.
in a GV, distance to enemy is indeed the determining factor.
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answer given, thread finished :aok
Read that people? THREAD FINISHED! :mad:
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Read that people? THREAD FINISHED! :mad:
actually joe, in case you haven't noticed.. the thread is not finished.. there are still some loose ends and still some.. controversy, being discussed.
Thanks for playing though, what does he win bob?
Why its gold bond medicated foot creme! Goldbond, the name you trust!"
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Ditch is above death but below "safe landing" -- it's 0.75 perk multiplier I believe (safe landing being 1.0, death being 0.5).
Also, ditches count as "deaths" in score counting. Check it out on the scores page. It lists ditches, bails, deaths, as similar categories.
I have shot some folks up and they ditched, but this is usually only over their own field. Never out between fields.
The first part is correct but I never mentioned how ditches affect score or perks. I simply said a safe ditch is not a death in terms of K/D statistics (it is the only catagory other than a safe landing that doesn't hurt K/D). Lusche has already confirmed this but if you don't believe me go check my score. Add all the captures, bails, ditches, etc, then add one and see what you get for K/D. It won't work out to my current K/D ratio. Remove the ditches and it will.
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He landed on the water and got a ditch. no doubt,...kill em good when ya can. :rock
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LOL..
im not exactly a "bad stick"
pretty damn good actually if I do say so myself, I have no problem whatsoever "hammering out kills"
I figured since he was dead stick, and I was dead stick.. I would just wait a few, might aswell get the kill after chasing the bastard around for so long and getting butt gunned..
the extended length of my runway stay was not me just sitting there glaring at the screen yelling "cmon.. cmon dammit. cmon!" I landed, and went and started a load of laundry, and put some steaks out to unthaw, came back.. and exited..
SO the answer to my question is..
you get the kill if
A: he died/bails
B: ditches in hostile territory..
you DO not get a kill if
A: he ditches in friendly territory.
so.. what is the deciding factor of the location of the ditch being friendly or hostile?
distance from nearest friendly airfield? distance from nearest con? etc etc
as so often, an answer creates another question
Doesn't unthaw mean freeze? Anyway...
Yes, a ditch doesn't count as a kill. I have shot the tail off a con only to have him ditch right in front of me... no kill..
Thems the breaks..
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Distance and time from the guy who shot the plane has nothing to do if a kill awarded.
Only landing in enemy for friendly territory does. I.E. Land Ditch vs Capture.
HiTech
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Distance and time from the guy who shot the plane has nothing to do if a kill awarded.
Only landing in enemy for friendly territory does. I.E. Land Ditch vs Capture.
HiTech
what constitutes enemy territory?
distance from nearest friendly vs nears hostile base? distance from nearest con?
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edit: probably redundant :rolleyes:
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Geez.. does no one actually read before posting?
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well.. lets say you lose your engine and start gliding towards a friendly base.. and land in the water..
you are closer to a friendly base than enemy, but there are tons of cons around.. Ditch or capture?
on the revese you land closer to an enemy base than a friendly, one but the skies are clear.. Ditch or capture?
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well.. lets say you lose your engine and start gliding towards a friendly base.. and land in the water..
you are closer to a friendly base than enemy, but there are tons of cons around.. Ditch or capture?
on the revese you land closer to an enemy base than a friendly, one but the skies are clear.. Ditch or capture?
A) ditch
b) capture
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A) ditch
b) capture
ok, so unlike GVs enemy preasence has no effect, only your proximity to base..
closer to theirs = capture
closer to yours = ditch.
sounds good to me :aok
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2bighorn.
Not everyone is the best stick
True, bighorn has told me the story of how he became good by sitting on the runway for 20 minutes. I mean, how else could you learn? :rolleyes: