Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: ShyGuy12 on March 23, 2008, 07:08:36 PM
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The TA-183 Huckebein was a German Jet designed in World War II to be the succussor to the ME-262. The Huckebein was named for a raven that causes trouble. The TA-183 was ordered into mass production in 1945, but the Allies claimed the FW Factory before a prototype can be produced.http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=TA-183&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=TA-183&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi) Here you can find pictures of the TA-183. The TA-183 would be a cool plane to add to the game, but they didn't even produce it afterwards. Just felt like Sharing.
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I read 'jet', so I'm going to have to say...
NO!
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Looks sexy!!
donkey
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NO! :furious
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Didn't see service, and the one jet and rocket we already have are TOO MANY to begin with. :mad:
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Fluffe Wolfe?
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damn u mother beat me to pointin it out lol
yep fluffe wulf
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Fluffe Wolfe?
:uhoh Sorry, i didnt see "Fluffe-Wolfe" before i submitted it. Thanks!
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damn u mother beat me to pointin it out lol
yep fluffe wulf
:uhoh Sorry i didnt see that one before i submitted it. Thanks!!
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It was sort of produced after the war. Both the MiG-15 and the F-86 designs were heavily influenced by the Ta-183, Me P.1101 and other German design documents captured in 1945. That's why the MiG-15 and F-86 are so similar in design.
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I read 'jet', so I'm going to have to say...
NO!
NO! :furious
Didn't see service, and the one jet and rocket we already have are TOO MANY to begin with. :mad:
I fail to see where a question is being asked, so you must be talking to yourself. He said it would be cool to have in game, but acknowledged that it did not satisfy any requirements. He wasnt asking for anything, he was sharing information. So read the WHOLE post before you make a snap response.
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Saying something would be "Cool to have" is more or less the same as asking for it.
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Saying something would be "Cool to have" is more or less the same as asking for it.
You stole the words right out of my mouth.
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Saying something would be "Cool to have" is more or less the same as asking for it.
[smart arse]Not the word 'but' after the statement 'cool to have', which negates all before it :D[/smart arse]
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It was sort of produced after the war. Both the MiG-15 and the F-86 designs were heavily influenced by the Ta-183, Me P.1101 and other German design documents captured in 1945. That's why the MiG-15 and F-86 are so similar in design.
It actually was produced in Argentina by Kurt Tank. I've also read that there were three prototypes built and they were captured by the Soviets. I've also read that no prototypes were built. /shrug
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It actually was produced in Argentina by Kurt Tank. I've also read that there were three prototypes built and they were captured by the Soviets. I've also read that no prototypes were built. /shrug
Actually not. While being derived from the same concept, Pulqui II was a new designed plane, not just a(modified) Ta 183. It's as much a 183 as for example the Mig 15 is.
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It was sort of produced after the war. Both the MiG-15 and the F-86 designs were heavily influenced by the Ta-183, Me P.1101 and other German design documents captured in 1945. That's why the MiG-15 and F-86 are so similar in design.
The design influence on the Sabre by the Ta Ta183 was ........
Btw, the F word in Fw is too close to the other F word so is edited by the profanity filter.
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It was sort of produced after the war. Both the MiG-15 and the F-86 designs were heavily influenced by the Ta-183
:rofl
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The space shuttle, concorde, titanic and the airbus a380 are just copies of the TA-183.
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You forgot the 747, meteor, F22, and Me163.
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Hans Multhopp, the chief engineer on the Ta-183 project (whisked away to the USA by Operation Paperclip) was directly involved in the design of the F-86's swept wings. It also used the Messerschmitt Me 262 airfoil and Me 262 HG II wing sweep and automatic slats. The XF-86 prototype was actually contracted in 1944, but were not built until after WWII due to the incorporation of several design modifications which were prompted by German research data.
This is what the June 1945 pre-German science F-86 (NA-140) design looked like: (Image takes a while to load.)
(http://www.afwing.com/intro/f86/2.jpg)
Prototype XF-86 after "Germinization" in 1946:
(http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Aerospace/NorthAmerican/Aero37G10.jpg)
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Hans Multhopp, the chief engineer on the Ta-183 project (whisked away to the USA by Operation Paperclip) was directly involved in the design of the F-86's swept wings.
Hans Multhopp was a German aerospace engineer during the Second World War. He was in charge of developing the Focke-Wulf Ta 183, jet fighter. After the end of the war, Multhopp moved to the United States as part of Operation Paperclip, where he gave valuable insight into swept wing design. In the mid- to late-1950s, Multhopp worked for the Martin Marietta Company in Essex, Maryland. This information contributed to the design of later versions of the F-84 and to the F-86 Sabre although it should be noted that the decision to give the XP-86 (as it was then known) swept wings was made in September 1945, prior to Multhopp making any meaningful contribution to the program.
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The decision to sweep the wings was made before Multhopp's contributions yes, but Multhopp and former Messerschmitt workers brought the knowhow to make the wings.
Hans Multhopp was a German aerospace engineer during the Second World War. He was in charge of developing the fluffe-Wulf Ta 183, jet fighter. After the end of the war, Multhopp moved to the United States as part of Operation Paperclip, where he gave valuable insight into swept wing design. In the mid- to late-1950s, Multhopp worked for the Martin Marietta Company in Essex, Maryland. This information contributed to the design of later versions of the F-84 and to the F-86 Sabre although it should be noted that the decision to give the XP-86 (as it was then known) swept wings was made in September 1945, prior to Multhopp making any meaningful contribution to the program.
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It was sort of produced after the war. Both the MiG-15 and the F-86 designs were heavily influenced by the Ta-183, Me P.1101 and other German design documents captured in 1945. That's why the MiG-15 and F-86 are so similar in design.
There are valid aerodynamic reasons the number "35" was tattooed on designer's brains in the 50s. The MiG-15 and F-84/86 were compelled by mission to look alike.
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And who brought those "valid aerodynamic reasons" to the table? Ze Germans! ;)
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Keep wiggling Lumpy for this is what you said:
"Hans Multhopp, the chief engineer on the Ta-183 project (whisked away to the USA by Operation Paperclip) was directly involved in the design of the F-86's swept wings."
It also used the Messerschmitt Me 262 airfoil and Me 262 HG II wing sweep and automatic slats.
Messerschmitt Me 262 - NACA 00011-0.825-35 (root), NACA 00009-1.1-40 (tip)
NAA NA-151 F-86A-5 Sabre - NACA 0009.5-64 (root), NACA 0008.5-64 (tip)
Certainly not the same airfoil.
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Hah "wiggling". It is you who use selective quoting, taking pieces of my statements out of context and nitpicking. You always do this.
“In the race to develop a jet fighter, North American Aviation
obtained data on captured Messerschmitt Me 262s and closely examined
the sweep of the German jet's wing. The company's project designers
realized sweeping the wing backwards would allow higher subsonic speeds
and delay the advance of the critical Mach number. Lt. General Bill
Craigie, the Air Force officer in charge of developing the XP-86,
decided the plane would have a 35-degree wing sweep. His decision
changed a mediocre fighter into the United States' best fighter for the
next decade.”
“As the war was winding down, the commanding general of the U.S. Army
Air Forces, General Henry H. "Hap" Arnold, asked the famed
aerodynamicist Theodor von Karman to lead a group of top scientists and
engineers to Germany to learn about its technological advances.
In the spring of 1945, these engineers went to Europe. They followed
closely behind the combat troops, so that they could be the first to
discover the German technology, which they wanted to obtain before the
Russians did.”
“The Germans arrived courtesy of "Operation Paperclip," a high-level
government plan to scoop up leading German scientists and engineers
during the closing months of World War II. Adolf Busemann eventually
wound up at NACA's Langley laboratory, and scores of others joined Air
Force, Army, and contractor staffs throughout the United States.
Information from the research done by Robert Jones had begun to filter
through the country's aeronautical community before the Germans
arrived. Their presence, buttressed by the obvious progress represented
by advanced German aircraft produced by 1945, bestowed the imprimatur
of proof to swept wing configurations. At Boeing, designers at work on
a new jet bomber tore up sketches for a conventional plane with
straight wings and built the B-47 instead. With its long, swept wings,
the B-47 launched Boeing into a remarkably successful family of swept
wing bombers and jet airliners. At North American, a conventional jet
fighter with straight wings, the XP-46, went through a dramatic
metamorphosis, eventually taking to the air as the famed F-86 Sabre, a
swept wing fighter that racked up an enviable combat record during the
Korean conflict in the 1950s.”
"The Germans had conducted wind-tunnel tests on small swept-wing
aircraft models as far back as 1940. By 1944 their work had
demonstrated that swept wings offered substantial performance benefits.
The main difficulty was that any swept wing that was efficient at high
speeds tended to be unstable at low speeds. They experimented with a
number of ways to deal with this problem, one of the most promising
being a "slat" on the leading edge of the wing, which could be raised
to change the airflow and generate more lift.
After the end of the war, aviation engineer George Schairer of the
Boeing Company went to Germany to examine German aviation research. He
was accompanied by the well-known Theodore Von Karman of the California
of Technology, and Robert Jones of the US National Advisory Committee
on Aeronautics (NACA, one of the precursor organizations of the modern
US National Aeronautics & Space Administration, or NASA).
Schairer was extremely enthusiastic about the data he found on
swept-wing flight, and not only proposed that Boeing use it on their
new XB-47 long-range bomber, but that the information be provided to
other US aviation firms.
Larry Green of NAA studied the materials and came to the conclusion
that a swept wing was answer to improving the performance of the XP-86,
and determined that a slat attached to the wing's leading edge and
automatically extended at low speeds would solve the low-speed
stability problem.
Green and other NAA engineers convinced the president of NAA, "Dutch"
Kindelberger, that the swept wing was the way to go, and on 18 August
1945, Kindelberger approved further studies on the concept. Within a
few weeks, NAA engineers were performing wind tunnel tests on a 1/23rd
scale model of an XP-86 with wings swept at 35 degrees. The results
were extremely promising. After further tests, the USAAF approved
development of the swept-wing XP-86 on 1 November 1945.
* Models were one thing, a flying aircraft another. Engineering the
slats was troublesome, and in fact the NAA team went so far as to
obtain slatted wings from the German Messerschmitt 262 jet fighter to
get ideas. The first seven aircraft would actually use some
Messerschmitt 262 slat hardware."
"The wing was based on the outer section of
the Me 262 profile and was supposed to be flown with 13% slats with a
second 20% slat wing as a back up. Another wing called the "A wing"
was interchangeable and the prime focus. This has a thickness of 8% at
the root and 12% at the tip wheras the Me 262 derived wing was the
opposit with 10% at the root and 8% at the tip. The "A wing" also had
provision for slats."
"They naturally tested their own preferred equivalent sections, mainly
the NACA 6 series 5 digits; these differed in detail only to the German
sections which tended to be modifications to the 5 digit NACA series
anyway. There were a few elliptical leading edge sections developed
by Ludwig Bolkow that were never used on the Me 262 wing but were used
on the tail plane."
"The German data provided warning of the problems that would be faced
and also provided several tested solutions for those problems.
Without that German data (estimated to be worth 2 years of NACA
research by von Karman) the designers of the B-47 and F-86 would be
taking educated guess and wasting time following possible solutions and
running into blind alleys."
Now we could continue this Google war ad nauseum, but I tire of it. And I tire of your trolling.
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If you got your facts correct Lumpy I wouldn't have to post corrections. :)
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acualy the volkyager was going to fly with the 262 at the end of the war it acualy flew as on a combat sortie 1 the ta 183 was going to be the sucesser but the war was going to end to early
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acualy the volkyager was going to fly with the 262 at the end of the war it acualy flew as on a combat sortie 1 the ta 183 was going to be the sucesser but the war was going to end to early
Huh? :huh
The Volksjaeger was the He-162, not the Ta-183 if thats what you mean...
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Didn't see service, and the one jet and rocket we already have are TOO MANY to begin with. :mad:
We need more rockets like this one (http://www.picburst.com/uploads/da054bba0f.jpg) (http://www.picburst.com) & more jets like this one (http://www.picburst.com/uploads/ced8f6e603.jpg) (http://www.picburst.com). What can I say I loved that show as a kid growing up. F A B.
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I fail to see where a question is being asked, so you must be talking to yourself. He said it would be cool to have in game, but acknowledged that it did not satisfy any requirements. He wasnt asking for anything, he was sharing information. So read the WHOLE post before you make a snap response.
are you kidding, when there are folks here who's sole pleasure in life is pissing on other people's ideas, did you really think they wouldn't pile into this thread like there was free beer?
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You forgot the 747, meteor, F22, and Me163.
...Mount Rushmore, the Great Wall of China, the Industrial Revolution and Twinkies are all copies of the TA-183.
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Nonononono
Twinkies are reverse engineered from debris found at Roswell!
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...Mount Rushmore, the Great Wall of China, the Industrial Revolution and Twinkies are all copies of the TA-183.
The wright flyer was a direct copy of the Ta183.