Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on March 25, 2008, 11:24:34 AM
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A handful of liberals spoils education for the masses. Sad, and typical behavior from the left.
Principal cancels tour of heros.
Forest Lake High's principal said the decision was spurred by concerns that the presentation was more political than educational.
By ALLIE SHAH , Star Tribune
Last update: March 25, 2008 - 8:27 AM
A national tour featuring decorated veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan won't be stopping at Forest Lake Area High School today as planned, after school leaders abruptly canceled the visit.
Steve Massey, the school principal, said the decision to cancel was prompted by concerns that the event was becoming political rather than educational and therefore was not suitable for a public school.
He said the school had received several phone calls from parents and others, some of whom indicated that they may stage a protest if the event took place.
"The event was structured to be an academic classroom discussion around military service. We thought we'd provide an opportunity for kids to learn about service in the context of our history classes," Massey said. "As the day progressed, it became clear that this was becoming a political event ... which would be inappropriate in a public setting.
"We decided to cancel," Massey said. Organizers of the National Heroes Tour then scrambled to relocate the event to the American Legion building in Forest Lake. The visit, which U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Stillwater, had been scheduled to attend, is sponsored by Vets for Freedom, a national organization run by Pete Hegseth, a 1999 graduate of Forest Lake Area High School who served with the 101st Airborne in Iraq in 2005-06.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/local/16971116.html
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I just read that, very disappointing.
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Some people need to be shot and if they have their way probably will be.
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Its only political if you let it get political and the school principal just made it a political statement by allowing a few whiny prettythang, yankee, liberal, fru fru dumbprettythanges...well you get the picture.
Political Correctness: Something that has screwed up the very foundation of our nation and created a society of whiny biatches.
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So what are the kids learning in school these days? Way back when I was in school we used to have guest speakers come in all the time. War vets, doctors, police officers, truck drivers, hell you name it and we probably had someone come into our school to talk about it. I learned more from those folks than I ever did from reading a book.
We had a lady come into my American History class when we were going over WWII. She was a Jew and survived one of the Nazi concentration camps. I can't remember which one but she sat there for the entire hour telling us about growing up in Nazi Germany and going to the camp and all the things they did to her and her family. That was learning about history. It was real and in our face and made you really think.
Now we come to today, and there are soilders willing to go out and talk to the kids about what is going on in the real world, and parents are having a fit about it?? Some people go way overboard about trying to protect their kids from the harsh lessons of reality, and then they wonder why when their kids get out on their own for the first time they go nuts.
It's sad, very sad.
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This is more than disapointing it's the inability to recognize history. It's another example that some people cannot seperate the troops from the the policy makers. Rather than express themselves to the decision makers they would rather take it out on those who have to carry out policy, not make it.
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He said the school had received several phone calls from parents and others, some of whom indicated that they may stage a protest if the event took place.
Some of whom would have had a very unpleasant day I suspect.
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This is more than disapointing it's the inability to recognize history. It's another example that some people cannot seperate the troops from the the policy makers. Rather than express themselves to the decision makers they would rather take it out on those who have to carry out policy, not make it.
Well said. Where is crockett, midnight, arlo, et al defending these people?
Silence...
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These days they have Pat the sexually ambiguous police person come out and talk about sensitivity training.
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Demoncrats.
:t
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Well said. Where is crockett, midnight, arlo, et al defending these people?
Silence...
They're probably at a Code Pink demonstration, or maybe protesting at a Soldiers funeral or just returning from disrupting a Catholic Mass during Easter and throwing fake blood.
Mac
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So what are the kids learning in school these days? Way back when I was in school we used to have guest speakers come in all the time. War vets, doctors, police officers, truck drivers, hell you name it and we probably had someone come into our school to talk about it. I learned more from those folks than I ever did from reading a book.
We had a lady come into my American History class when we were going over WWII. She was a Jew and survived one of the Nazi concentration camps. I can't remember which one but she sat there for the entire hour telling us about growing up in Nazi Germany and going to the camp and all the things they did to her and her family. That was learning about history. It was real and in our face and made you really think.
Now we come to today, and there are soilders willing to go out and talk to the kids about what is going on in the real world, and parents are having a fit about it?? Some people go way overboard about trying to protect their kids from the harsh lessons of reality, and then they wonder why when their kids get out on their own for the first time they go nuts.
It's sad, very sad.
So, what will be the "moral" of their stories? If it is political, then I wouldn't want it at my school, unless it was done in political science class as a debate or such. :aok To expose the whole school to a one sided view of the politics of these two wars would be doing the school an injustice.
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SkyRock yer a Senior now right?
*let's see 3rd grade 4th time, yep thats 12 Years.*
:D
Mac
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Disgraceful. That principal is a spineless tard.
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Here's my big 7th grade project from last year:
http://www.ihmgradeschool.com/2006_07/student/veterans/veterans.htm (http://www.ihmgradeschool.com/2006_07/student/veterans/veterans.htm)
And the year before:
http://www.ihmgradeschool.com/2005_06/student_made/veteran_reports/7th_veteran_reports.htm (http://www.ihmgradeschool.com/2005_06/student_made/veteran_reports/7th_veteran_reports.htm)
I'll publish this year's reports in a few weeks.
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vouchers
lazs
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Well said. Where is crockett, midnight, arlo, et al defending these people?
Silence...
Simmer down there Rip... i just got here... Allow me to save you from your backward right-wing thinking. ;)
*Ahem*
I happen to think schools ought to bring in veteran's and allow them to speak to kids. :eek: I'm guessing here, but I think what the parents had a problem with was the organizations mission ofrallying the country to complete the missions in Iraq and Afghanistan.
that can easily be construed as having a political agenda behind it.
They were probably unaware that discussions between the group and the school to insure against turning it into a political debate "We had a number of conversations at the beginning of this to make sure our message was in keeping with the traditions of a public school," Hegseth said.
It's kind of a pity though... i know several veteran's who are multiple amputee's, and folks with severe and profound PTSD that are amazingly inspiring, and truly show the meaning of duty and honor. They would be great to bring to a school, and meet with the kids.
Does anyone know about Hegseth's organization? I'm not familiar with them.
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So, what will be the "moral" of their stories? If it is political, then I wouldn't want it at my school, unless it was done in political science class as a debate or such. :aok To expose the whole school to a one sided view of the politics of these two wars would be doing the school an injustice.
There is no need for a "moral" for their stories. They were going there to discuss their first hand accounts over in Afganistan and Iraq and being in the military, not to discuss if the war is right or wrong. The parents that called to complain made it political because they don't want soilders telling their kids what it's really like over there or what being in the military is like.
Many of the people that came and talked to my classes when I was in school didn't have a moral to their stories either. They just talked about what they did and saw regarding whatever subject we happened to be studying at the time. Nothing can educate someone more than listening and paying attention to someone who has first hand experiance.
The school did those students an injustice by allowing a few parents who's political beliefs don't let them agree with the war deny all those students a chance to learn first hand what is really going on over there. That is what is wrong with this story.
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Hornet,
I think Vets should be allowed to speak at public schools. Just like police, firefighters, etc... I do support having military representatives and vets speak to our kids and want my two boys to listen to these speakers.
I'm not sure this group's message is just to talk about their experiences as soldiers though, unless your research shows something different than mine....
Their message is simple: Too many of their friends and comrades fell under fire to leave Iraq too early.
The Vets for Freedom "Heroes Tour" made a stop Tuesday in Tucson, one day before the fifth anniversary of the start of the war.
Four Iraq war veterans argued the U.S. should keep on fighting before a friendly crowd of about 50 at the American Legion John P. Burns Post 36, 5841 E. 22nd St.
Link to article http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/local/80107.php
I realize this is to an American Legion Post, but it's what I found in a quick search.
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Four Iraq war veterans argued the U.S. should keep on fighting before a friendly crowd of about 50 at the American Legion John P. Burns Post 36, 5841 E. 22nd St.
And why shouldn`t they be allowed to voice their opinions at an American Legion post?
They damn sure deserve it.
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Did I say that?
Of course I didn't.
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Just another slap to our soldiers faces from a bunch of nancy boy tards.Surprised the ACLU didnt lead the charge.
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Sorry to hear about that Rip, We just had one of the Tuskegee(sp?) Airmen pilots come to our school and talk to us about his/their experience a few months ago. :salute
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Perhaps the school should make the students read the list of 4000+ soldiers killed in Iraq. Or would you guys consider that political?
I have no problems with vets speaking to students, unless it becomes a recruiting drive in cognito. If they want to recruit, do it in an open manner.
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I understand exactly why the principal canceled- political presentations are inappropiate in public schools. Let's put it this way- would you want an anti war group like code pink speaking before the student body? Because unless you'd have no problem with that you have no right to gripe.
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No wonder is it I hate liberals and PC democrats? :mad:
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Well said Airhead.
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Perhaps the school should make the students read the list of 4000+ soldiers killed in Iraq. Or would you guys consider that political?
I have no problems with vets speaking to students, unless it becomes a recruiting drive in cognito. If they want to recruit, do it in an open manner.
what other purpose would the military have for sending troops to talk to schools. Of course it's about recruiting. If you want to consider this a political issue you need to consider better than half the stuff they teach in schools these days political.
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Would most of you guys be as supportive of this group speaking at the school as well?
http://www.vaiw.org/vet/index.php (http://www.vaiw.org/vet/index.php)
shamus
http://www.vetsforfreedom.org/heroestour/tour_stops.aspx
Both seem to be unaffiliated with the military
just wondering.
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Airhead, some would consider political presentations to be inappropriate in public....period. I would also point out that if Code Pink had been invited to speak in a public school, and then the administration denied them the right to speak because of parental protests, we would be having an entirely DIFFERENT discussion right now.
These veterans have been speaking in public places and in schools all over the country, and as far as I can determine, there have been no inappropriate actions on their part. If we follow your line of reasoning on this subject, then we should refrain from inviting any government official, soldier, diplomat, mayor, judge, fireman, minister, or atheist to speak in our schools for fear that they "might" make a political statement.
Soldiers have been speaking in our schools for about two centuries. That it has only now been seen as inappropriate comments negatively about our "modern" values.
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Perhaps the school should make the students read the list of 4000+ soldiers killed in Iraq. Or would you guys consider that political?
I have no problems with vets speaking to students, unless it becomes a recruiting drive in cognito. If they want to recruit, do it in an open manner.
While we're at it, let's just start listing off all of the Americans that died in every war we ever participated in.
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Over 40,000 in the U.S. are killed by automobile deaths each year.
We should read their names in school and march screaming "No Cars for Oil!" and "It's the Cars, Stupid!"
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Over 40,000 in the U.S. are killed by automobile deaths each year.
We should read their names in school and march screaming "No Cars for Oil!" and "It's the Cars, Stupid!"
400.000 will die in the USA this year of smoking related causes. Where is the outcry?
Why does anyone fear soldiers telling students what war is really about? Do the liberals fear the soldiers might highlight some of the good things being done in Iraq and Afghanistan? Can't have that now can we?
Woe be the country if students learned that soldiers die in battle, that friends are lost and our troops suffer from seeing their friends dieing. Our society might collapse if the students see the real faces of soldiers, and hear the good and the bad. Worst of all, students might find out that young men lose limbs, lose eyesight, and yet display amazing courage and resilience in the face of hardship.
Can't have the students learning the soldiers were sitting where they now sit just a year or two before.
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Yeah, it's only 4000 of our finest. Why tell their story, eh? Let's just belittle their sacrifice in favor of politics.
You guys make me ill.
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Demoncrats.
:t
I wasn't aware that 74% of the voting population was democrat, which is the percentage of Americans opposed to the "War" in Iraq.
I do find it sad that those students don't have an opportunity to talk with those Veterans. They don't seem to be on a recruiting drive, after all.
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While we're at it, let's just start listing off all of the Americans that died in every war we ever participated in.
Yes, that WOULD be a good start sir. Or better yet, all the names of the men and women that lived and left pieces of themselves in another country. Maybe then we won't race headfirst into these things without thought, without a plan.
War is no joke, even if Mr. Cheney thinks "it's Ok, they volunteered, after all."
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Yeah, it's only 4000 of our finest. Why tell their story, eh? Let's just belittle their sacrifice in favor of politics.
You guys make me ill.
Amen.God rest their unappreciated used for political gain souls. :frown:
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Yes...honor their sacrifice...speak their names in reverance. That's something we should all do...school kids included....regardless of our political leanings....
....and then explain to me why some of their living comrades-in-arms should be denied the right to speak at a public school. Is it because they "might" speak out in favor of our presence in Iraq? Would you feel differently about this if they were likely to make anti-war statements?
Sorry guys, but some of you sound as if you studied dramatics under MacArthur. The wrangling over the reading of the names of the 4000 casualties totally sidesteps the topic of this thread.
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I wasn't aware that 74% of the voting population was democrat, which is the percentage of Americans opposed to the "War" in Iraq.
You know, that`s pretty interesting considering that I, nor any of my family, friends or people I have spoken to have ever been asked or polled on this subject.
We have been having an ongoing discussion around here about this very fact as of late.
Can`t really see how 74% percent could be an accurate.........or even close, not to mention truthful figure when
it doesn`t include all Americans..............just the ones to support said poll.
Polls will always turn out in tune with the intended outcome of the poll takers when those polled are selected to do so.
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Airhead, some would consider political presentations to be inappropriate in public....period. I would also point out that if Code Pink had been invited to speak in a public school, and then the administration denied them the right to speak because of parental protests, we would be having an entirely DIFFERENT discussion right now.
No we wouldn't- I'd be saying the exact same thing. Public schools have a captive and impressionable audiance and they have no right to present political or social values to our children. I disagree with condom handouts to middle school children under the same grounds I disagree with ANY political group, with an agenda, adressing MY child and telling MY child what his/her values should be while my child is in schooltime.
As far as I'm concerned the principal did the correct thing, provided he holds the same standards to any political group wishing to preach to a captive audiance that has no choice but to listen to a two or three hour spiel...In fact I'd like to think the guy's somewhat conservative, and he made this choice based upon the path of least resistance.
Smart move, IMO.
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I didn't read where the principle was concerned about the vet's preaching a pro war agenda. It seemed he was more apprehensive about the potential for a circus to erupt as the pro and anti camps co opted the visit for their own purposes.
I agree. It's not his job to arbitrate a political dialog, he's there to maintain a productive and constructive learning environment for all the students. Playing host to a demonstration is probably not part of that mandate. And being a stalwart advocate of the constitution is not part of his job description.
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moray.. are you saying that 74% of Americans believe that we should just cut and run from Iraq? Or, are you saying that 74% wish we weren't there or 74% don't like war? or what?
I am opposed to car crashes but.. I don't want to do anything about it. I can think of nothing that can be done except maybe better roads that I would support.
lazs
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moray.. are you saying that 74% of Americans believe that we should just cut and run from Iraq? Or, are you saying that 74% wish we weren't there or 74% don't like war? or what?
I am opposed to car crashes but.. I don't want to do anything about it. I can think of nothing that can be done except maybe better roads that I would support.
lazs
I'm not saying anything. It is a running statistical analysis of American cross sections that between 66% and 74% of the population is opposed to the Iraq "war". If you need clarification... here you go.
op·pose /əˈpoʊz/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-pohz] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -posed, -pos·ing.
–verb (used with object) 1. to act against or provide resistance to; combat.
2. to stand in the way of; hinder; obstruct.
3. to set as an opponent or adversary.
4. to be hostile or adverse to, as in opinion: to oppose a resolution in a debate.
5. to set as an obstacle or hindrance.
6. to set against in some relation, esp. as to demonstrate a comparison or contrast: to oppose advantages to disadvantages.
7. to use or take as being opposite or contrary.
8. to set (something) over against something else in place, or to set (two things) so as to face or be opposite to one another.
–verb (used without object) 9. to be or act in opposition
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A handful of liberals spoils education for the masses. Sad, and typical behavior from the left.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/local/16971116.html
Sad, Typical behavior from you sir. I'm struggling to find anywhere where it says that the negative respondants were liberals. Until you have that information, your opinion is merely non-reality supported conjecture, which is more indicative of your ideology than the ideology of those involved in the story you presented.
More likely, just parents who don't like the idea of their kids joining and getting killed, of both liberal AND conservative backgrounds. Being in either background doesn't negate inate desire that you don't want your child to end up in harm's way....at least I hope not.
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A handful of liberals spoils education for the masses. Sad, and typical behavior from the left.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/local/16971116.html
Also, interesting how many liberals live near you. This is your voter breakdown from Bush/Gore. You seem to be in a very "Red" area. (Forest Lake, MN)
% Bush % Gore
57% 43%
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You know, that`s pretty interesting considering that I, nor any of my family, friends or people I have spoken to have ever been asked or polled on this subject.
We have been having an ongoing discussion around here about this very fact as of late.
Can`t really see how 74% percent could be an accurate.........or even close, not to mention truthful figure when
it doesn`t include all Americans..............just the ones to support said poll.
Polls will always turn out in tune with the intended outcome of the poll takers when those polled are selected to do so.
You are speaking from a position you know nothing about, Jackal. Forming an opinion from that position as well, I might add.
Do you have an unlisted phone number? You will not be polled if it is unlisted. Also, you are asked at the outset of the poll, if you would like to participate, prior to any subject being asked. If you say yes, then they start. If you say no, they say "thank you" and hang up. You have no knowledge of the actual polling "subject" until roughly halfway into a 10 minute or so conversation.
I've been polled 3 times in ten years...one of which I declined.
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truth in polls, 74% of the 1000 people we called said................
yeah, thats a accurate cross section of 300 million people.
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You are speaking from a position you know nothing about, Jackal. Forming an opinion from that position as well, I might add.
If those who are not polled are not included in your 74% fairy tale , then it is untruthful and very unacurate.
Not an opinion, just a fact. You can`t say 74% of Americans are for or against anything unless 100% are polled.
Polls are commonly steered in the best interest of the ones taking the poll to begin with.
Naive people will bite off in anything if you serve it on a silver platter.
Do you have an unlisted phone number?
You taking a poll? :rofl
No it is not unlisted.
Like I said earlier, we have an ongoing discussion going on around here on this very subject. It`s been quite an eye opener.
I've been polled 3 times in ten years
Just takes once for a Hereford.
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truth in polls, 74% of the 1000 people we called said................
yeah, thats a accurate cross section of 300 million people.
More accurate than your grammar. :rofl
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If those who are not polled are not included in your 74% fairy tale , then it is untruthful and very unacurate.
Not an opinion, just a fact. You can`t say 74% of Americans are for or against anything unless 100% are polled.
Polls are commonly steered in the best interest of the ones taking the poll to begin with.
Naive people will bite off in anything if you serve it on a silver platter.
You taking a poll? :rofl
No it is not unlisted.
Like I said earlier, we have an ongoing discussion going on around here on this very subject. It`s been quite an eye opener.
Just takes once for a Hereford.
It all depends upon the analysis. I personally agree that 1000 is a very bad number to extrapolate from...yet, I'm also a scientist that wants the most precise, pinpoint data I can get. The statistics behind it come up with the percentages, and can be very accurate with small numbers. It's almost un-nerving sometimes.
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Yeah......it`s unnerving alright. It`s unnerving that anyone would be so naive as to bite off into it.
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truth in polls, 74% of the 1000 people we called said................
yeah, thats a accurate cross section of 300 million people.
Yeah I polled around 20 people in the neighborhood yesterday about the Iraq war.
All 20 supported it.
So.............I guess by the same token used on the other poll I could say that 100% of Texans supports the Iraq war.
Just about as truthful and accurate as Billary`s claim to be a Rambo incarnate .
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moray.. oh wait.. now it is between 66 and 74% of the 100 people polled oppose the war.
Why can't they give an accurate number? perhaps a lot were confused on what opposed means? I am opposed to any war.. they are a bad thing but that doesn't mean they are not necessary.
I had seen a poll a while back that said something like 80% of the people polled did not favor an immediate surrender...er "pull out"
Wonder what a poll that asked "do you favor us surrendering in Iraq?" would look like.
That is like asking soldiers.. "do you like being here and fighting?"
"oppose" is not precise enough. no one likes war. I would like to see the wording of the poll.
never seen a poll that had a range (66-74%) on a simple yes or no opinion.. what were the choices? Yes/no/undecided and... whatever you want to list me as?
lazs
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moray.. also.. in every poll I find... the USA today one for instance...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-06-12-poll_x.htm
They say that a little less than 60% of the people think we should pull out all or SOME of our troops soon.. that is a far cry from 74% wanting to cut and run. only 52% say it wasn't worth it.
CNN says that 61% "oppose" the war as you put it.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-06-12-poll_x.htm
lazs
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From what I've seen recently 70% of the population couldn't even find Iraq on a map. But they almost all know Simon Cowell (I had to google his last name so I feel sufficiently humbled).
I'm just curious what this 1 1/2 page pi%&ing contest has to do with the original subject.
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Yeah......it`s unnerving alright. It`s unnerving that anyone would be so naive as to bite off into it.
Sir, how do you think they "predict" elections with less than 1% of the votes counted, and come up right around 99% of the time? It's from "exit polling" and the statistical analysis of such.
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"Exit polling" is hardly the same thing. It's a far far different thing to ask someone who they voted for vs asking a series of loaded questions to achieve a desired result.
I have absolutely no trust in any poll where I cannot examine the questions used, the location and determination of where and how the poll was conducted and the analysis used to determine the statistics gathered in any poll.
You can make a poll come out any way you want by wording the questions properly and cherry picking the polling location and or population.
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Sir, how do you think they "predict" elections with less than 1% of the votes counted, and come up right around 99% of the time? It's from "exit polling" and the statistical analysis of such.
You got to be kidding..........right?
Oranges/apples
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You can make a poll come out any way you want by wording the questions properly and cherry picking the polling location and or population.
Yeah.........I think that they come up with the term cross section , relating to polls like this "Cross this section off because that`s not the results we wish". :rofl
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Here is an update of what occurred.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/25/vets-for-freedom-report-from-the-minnesota-front/
My sister (who still lives in Forest Lake) said that the school district was overwhelmed with letters supporting the VFF and shaming the principal for his poor decision. (Remember, the Principal and VFF had made an agreement prior to the arrangements that VFF would NOT talk about the politics of the Iraq War)
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LOL Ripsnort, you're trying to pass off the VFF site and its slanted view as a "news update?"
Too funny. :D
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LOL Ripsnort, you're trying to pass off the VFF site and its slanted view as a "news update?"
Too funny. :D
That's not their website.
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huh?? Now I have to read it. ;)