Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BlkEgle on March 27, 2008, 10:17:10 AM
-
Ok...I know this has probably been discussed to the point of making people puke. Well this post has nothing to do with the "Rightness" or "Wrongness" of the Head on attack. It has to do with the physics of the subject. So here goes.
You are on a routine fighter sweep when you spot an enemy aircraft 4k off your right side. You turn in his direction to begin your attack. Suddenly you realize that the closing distance is now 2k..and closing fast.
For the following calculations the closing speed of the two aircraft is 600mph. Since AH2 uses yards as a measure of distance the closing speed becomes 293.333 yards per second. This means that at 2k you have about 6.818 seconds to make a decision.
Decision 1: Turn away from the attack.
Decision 2: continue your course until you are closer.
At 1000 yards you now have 3.409 seconds to make a decision. Given the average reaction time of a human you will travel 104.485 yards before you recognize the distance (Velocity* Reaction time...293.333*.0356). Even with an average aircraft you can still avoid a head on attack at this range. But lets say you decide to fire a short burst...say a 1 second burst.
Reaction distance you will fly is 104.485 + 1 sec burst= 397.8187 yards traveled. This would place you at 602.181 yards from the target. You would have about 2.045 seconds left to turn/climb/dive away.
If you wait until you are 600 yards from the target and you decide to fire a short burst you would be at 202 yards from the target and have less than .5 seconds to make a turn to avoid contact with the enemy plane.
Although the best attack option in a fighter vs fighter engagement is to attack from the rear, there are times when circumstances place you in a very short window to make a decision, react, and then evade. The head on attack gives your very little time to determine the best course of action.
APPROXIMATE DISTANCE AND TIME TO CONTACT. (600mph closing speed.)
Distance Time
2000 6.818181818
1500 5.113636364
1000 3.409090909
600 2.045454545
400 1.363636364
Velocity 293.3333333 yards per sec
Formulas Used.
Velocity in Yards Per Second=(yards per hour*miles per hour)/seconds in an hour
Time to impact=Distance/Velocity
Distance traveled during reaction time=Velocity*reaction time
Variables (Reaction Time) You can test your reaction time here: http://getyourwebsitehere.com/jswb/rttest01.html
Assumptions: Both aircraft are traveling at a combined closing speed of 600mph, directly at each other with no deflection. There are many other factors that affect impact avoidance.
-
My physics of a head on attack are much simpler:
1. Only use as a last resort.
2. Aim at your prey.
3. Start firing at 1k out.
4. Pray he dies before you.
5. Win-Taunt opponent on 200 if I win.
Lose-Berate opponent on 200.
6. Win-Take congratulatory swig of beer.
Lose-Cuss out loud, get new plane.
No math involved.
-
1. Nose off target.
2. Start a low off axis merge.
3. Do a medium climb sprial turn.
4. Watch opponent miss.
5. Reverse turn and blown him out of the sky.
6. Taunt on 200.
Strip(er)
-
dont ever forget the "200 taunt"
-
Here's a curve ball for ya, is there an ettiqet for the HO?
Example (this has happened to me a 2 or 3 times) both planes pass on the first merge, and turn nose to tail. Both planes merge a second time. Then a third. Maybe even a fourth. After multiple merges, and no advantage to either plane, I finally take an off angle shot on the next merge. Still a HO? or just bad manners?
-
HO'ing in Aces High.
1, Say you never do it in the forum.
2, HO first and HO often.
3, If you win say its was a deflection shot.
4, If you lose say it was an HO by a "noob in a LA-7".
5, Then go back to the forum and say you, "almost never HO", or, "HO infrequently". :huh
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
Here's a curve ball for ya, is there an ettiqet for the HO?
Example (this has happened to me a 2 or 3 times) both planes pass on the first merge, and turn nose to tail. Both planes merge a second time. Then a third. Maybe even a fourth. After multiple merges, and no advantage to either plane, I finally take an off angle shot on the next merge. Still a HO? or just bad manners?
usually by the 3rd merge i start shooting, and often whack the guys engine with my 38's cannon.... probobly get more than that cuz they always go down... :aok
assuming they didnt HO me on the first merge. :furious
1. Nose off target.
2. Start a low off axis merge.
3. Do a medium climb sprial turn.
4. Watch opponent miss.
5. Reverse turn and blown him out of the sky.
6. Taunt on 200.
Strip(er)
good plan, please teach me how to do it better! :pray
-
Here's a curve ball for ya, is there an ettiqet for the HO?
NO :D
-
Ya know, on this subject, I wish there was some kind of indicator on the icon to tell you whether or not you are closing nose-to-tail or nose-to-nose. Closure rates can fool you, it is just often too hard for me to see which end is which, even with zoom, until 1K or closer. I've both gotten HOed when I thought the closure indicated a tail chase and I've also pulled off of perfectly good firing to avoid being "HOed" by what turns out to be his rudder-end.
And some of the planes it is hardest to tell whether its "coming or going" are like P-38s and 110s, exactly the ones you don't want to go head on with. :D
-
I'm usually still punching on my calculator when I find myself in the tower getting a new plane and a new calculator. :aok
Last night I only upped 6 times and four of those times someone collided with me. Looks like I was fighting the bumper car squad. Was still great fun.... :)
-
1. Nose off target.
2. Start a low off axis merge.
3. Do a medium climb sprial turn.
4. Watch opponent miss.
5. Reverse turn and blown him out of the sky.
6. Taunt on 200.
Strip(er)
+1
-
Some times HOs are the correct answer though.
A month or two ago we were scambling to defend against an incoming raid. I took my Mossie and climbed away from the attackers as the Mossie is a very poor fighter fighting from below. After I reached 13,000ft I turned back. On my return I saw the other Rooks at about 5-7k and the first enemy fighter arriving at 11-12k, an Me262. Now I know how much damage an Me262 can do to a lower defensive force without even landing a blow just by tying up their E in defensive manuevers. The Me262 pointed his nose up at me and I took the offered HO as I was not realistically going to get a better shot, and it was a high priority to kill him. We both hit eachother and given the centerline firepower of our respective fighters it was mutual annilation with kills being scored and credited simultaineously. The Me262 driver said "I think you got the better end of that one Karnak" on channel 200.
I think my taking that HO was the correct thing to do.
-
Some times HOs are the correct answer though.
A month or two ago we were scambling to defend against an incoming raid. I took my Mossie and climbed away from the attackers as the Mossie is a very poor fighter fighting from below. After I reached 13,000ft I turned back. On my return I saw the other Rooks at about 5-7k and the first enemy fighter arriving at 11-12k, an Me262. Now I know how much damage an Me262 can do to a lower defensive force without even landing a blow just by tying up their E in defensive manuevers. The Me262 pointed his nose up at me and I took the offered HO as I was not realistically going to get a better shot, and it was a high priority to kill him. We both hit eachother and given the centerline firepower of our respective fighters it was mutual annilation with kills being scored and credited simultaineously. The Me262 driver said "I think you got the better end of that one Karnak" on channel 200.
I think my taking that HO was the correct thing to do.
There are planes that it is ok to HO in, like the 110, mossie, and A20. if someone is stupid enough to get infront of those guns they deserve to die a slow and painfull death :devil
-
Hoing goes good with Dueling Banjos..... It's a HOdown yeeeehaaaa
-
1. Nose off target.
2. Start a low off axis merge.
3. Do a medium climb sprial turn.
4. Watch opponent miss.
5. Reverse turn and blown him out of the sky.
6. Taunt on 200.
Strip(er)
I use a little different approach. I'll go straight HO merge, because any other move exposes a shot for him. If the fool fires I fire back, BUT at the last second I'll go under him for mo speed, and before he even finishes passing I'll pull up real hard just missing his tail. Straight up and then over I go staying inverted and looking through the canopy to give me view of where he's going... then rotate upright and down on his 6. You will find it kind of amazing how many times this works with HO merges.
BTW, in RL HOs were conducted from time to time. Most anything that got the bullet down the barrel into another AC was done. BUT, never as a golden rule. In a sim it becomes a dweeble tactic for point mongers.
2 cents
-
All this talk about not taking the HO is getting to me… What’s more American than a good HO?
Mind you, I’m not talking about one of them walking petri dishes that are standing on the corner type HOs…
(Insert a picture here that is certain to have Skuzzy delete this post)…
No, I’m talking about this kind of HO:
(http://www.filenanny.com/files/4690141cf359b3528/gunfight.jpg)
What’s with all this braggin about getting behind someone to shoot him? What kind of low-life, yella-bellied, snake-in-the-grass brags about shootin someone in the back?
What happened to ethics and good old manners? What happened to the cry of “Don’t shoot till you see the whites of their eyes”? What happened to “Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead”? Did John Wayne sneak around waiting until the other guy couldn’t get the draw on him? Nope! The Duke stood his ground, called the other feller out, and then slapped leather face to face.
If it was good enough for John Wayne… It’s good enough for me!
-
Ya know, on this subject, I wish there was some kind of indicator on the icon to tell you whether or not you are closing nose-to-tail or nose-to-nose. Closure rates can fool you, it is just often too hard for me to see which end is which, even with zoom, until 1K or closer. I've both gotten HOed when I thought the closure indicated a tail chase and I've also pulled off of perfectly good firing to avoid being "HOed" by what turns out to be his rudder-end.
And some of the planes it is hardest to tell whether its "coming or going" are like P-38s and 110s, exactly the ones you don't want to go head on with. :D
isn't that what the + & - before distance are ?
-
ZoOzOo T3h L33t H03r
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii275/zoozoo13/DD8.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii275/zoozoo13/DD5.jpg)
-
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj77/cbarnes828/poster70844238.jpg?t=1206655885)
-
Decision 1: Turn away from the attack.
Decision 2: continue your course until you are closer.
You left out Decision 3. Roll underneath or above,merge then finish off the attacker. Anything else isn't worth thinking about.
<S>...-Gixer
-
Ya know, on this subject, I wish there was some kind of indicator on the icon to tell you whether or not you are closing nose-to-tail or nose-to-nose. Closure rates can fool you, it is just often too hard for me to see which end is which, even with zoom, until 1K or closer. I've both gotten HOed when I thought the closure indicated a tail chase and I've also pulled off of perfectly good firing to avoid being "HOed" by what turns out to be his rudder-end.
And some of the planes it is hardest to tell whether its "coming or going" are like P-38s and 110s, exactly the ones you don't want to go head on with. :D
Yep especially furing low light against a dark background, or, if its a big hairy furball. There have been times I thought a chase was actually a HO merge. It only takes a second or two not knowing its a merge to blow your merge.
-
Wait, Wait! I studied for this one, I know the answer!
It takes two to HO.
What did I win?
-
I dont HO unless im in a La-7 or niki......and im getting gangbanged by jokersjokers :noid
-
I only read the first post and a few ridiculous replies between here and there. The answer is if you waited to 2.2k distance to think your too late. At 1.5k you should already be turned away from the ho.
-
I think my taking that HO was the correct thing to do.
Nope!
-
The underlying issue here is simple. Your either a fighter or a target. When two pilots elect (and this is the key word) a mutual HO then you simply have two pidgeons in play and no true "fighter" pilot. Now if a pilot meets a pidgeon he has a number of options. For a certain subset of pilots like Mark it will inevitably involve manuevering for a clear 3/9 line advantage. For others it may evovle into anything from simply denying the shot and continuing to an E or angles fight or creating a simple front quarter "fly by" shot. All of those are totally acceptable in my book based on preference, relative positioning, "mission goal" or based on the overall situation. In the end if you simply trade lead then your a random statistic in a game of chance. If instead you manuever and simply give lead instead then your a pilot and he's still a pidgeon, and maybe a stuffed one :aok
-
In this game it tends to be Ho or be Hoed. If I am involved with multible bogys I will shoot every time my sight crosses a target. I will divert from a Ho if possible (one-on-one) but with little E and slow moving you don't stand a chance if the Enmy wants that head on shot. Either face the music or expose your full silhouette to the attacker.
I get pissed off when I get Hoed but then again, I've done it.
Theirs nothing more aggravating than flying to altitude, arriving at your killin place to be picked off by a Hoin pos before you can even engage. :mad:
Then Again:
Theirs nothing more satisfying than flying through the wreckage of Hoin dweeb. :D
-
6.818 seconds until mutual destruction
5.113 seconds until mutual destruction
3.409 seconds until mutual destruction
2.045 seconds until mutual destruction
1.363 seconds until mutual destruction
POOF
-
Every time I see someone HO me, the first thing I think is that guys gunna be a easy kill.
-
head on shot is as legitimate as any other shot in the game. its the ace pilots that piss me off.
-
In this game it tends to be Ho or be Hoed. If I am involved with multible bogys I will shoot every time my sight crosses a target. I will divert from a Ho if possible (one-on-one) but with little E and slow moving you don't stand a chance if the Enmy wants that head on shot. Either face the music or expose your full silhouette to the attacker.
I get pissed off when I get Hoed but then again, I've done it.
Theirs nothing more aggravating than flying to altitude, arriving at your killin place to be picked off by a Hoin pos before you can even engage. :mad:
Then Again:
Theirs nothing more satisfying than flying through the wreckage of Hoin dweeb. :D
Actually this is a major misconception for many in the game. What your describing isnt really a "HO" per se but a number of interacting 1 and 2 circle fights. In effect your turning into an opposing player and he's potentially turning into you. You have a very short window of opportunity to decide if you can get around 1st or not and if you have other more pressing threats (or if he's focused elsewhere). A relatively subtle change in your orientation or rate of trun early can make a major difference and avoid a mutual "face shot". 99% of the time these scenarios are not equal and you either have the edge or dont. If you cant get around 1st you need to get out of the way, if you can then you need to make a FQ shot before the other guy gets his nose around...or manuever out of plane to avoid the pass altogeather.
-
head on shot is as legitimate as any other shot in the game. its the ace pilots that piss me off.
in my humble opinion a HO shows lack of skill, and a degree of unwillingness to fight.
-
I prefer HOing as I make futile attempt to launch from capped feilds.
-
in my humble opinion a HO shows lack of skill, and a degree of unwillingness to fight.
if i recall correctly, didn't AW3 have it set so a shot from....i thinki.....a 10 degree area off center from the nose wouldn't score hits?
-
in my humble opinion a HO shows lack of skill, and a degree of unwillingness to fight.
I respectfully disagree. Skill is paramount to a successful head on attack. If there were an unwillingness to attack then you would not be experiencing a head on attack in the first place.
Being able to counter a head on attack is just as important as being able to perform one.
Once you have truly attained the ability to snatch the pebbles from my hand you will understand.
-
if i recall correctly, didn't AW3 have it set so a shot from....i thinki.....a 10 degree area off center from the nose wouldn't score hits?
Bear in mind that Air Warrior is no longer in business.
If HTC were to ever impliment such an incredibly discriminatory restraint on the ability of a legitimate bullet to impact a legitimate target then I would see my train leaving the AH station for good. I have no use for such restraints in what is arguably a great combat simulator and a great game like this.
-
I respectfully disagree. Skill is paramount to a successful head on attack. If there were an unwillingness to attack then you would not be experiencing a head on attack in the first place.
Being able to counter a head on attack is just as important as being able to perform one.
Once you have truly attained the ability to snatch the pebbles from my hand you will understand.
A HO is the easy way out of the fight enough said. In the words of SkyRock "this isn't a Jousting game it's a dogfighting game."
-
Bear in mind that Air Warrior is no longer in business.
If HTC were to ever impliment such an incredibly discriminatory restraint on the ability of a legitimate bullet to impact a legitimate target then I would see my train leaving the AH station for good. I have no use for such restraints in what is arguably a great combat simulator and a great game like this.
oooo...it was only a question. i think AW was on it's way down the tubes well before that anyway. i only thought of that as it would stop thosae who don't know how to avoid them fro complaining. i personally have gotte a bit better at it, but about 30-40% of the time, i still go down to them. someone in another thread had mentioned that they can't tell if the other aircraft is comming at them or not till about 1 to 1.5 out. i sometimes have that problem too. i fly on a 21" monitor, so you can imagine how small the cons are at those distances...even zoomed in.
<<S>>
-
A HO is the easy way out of the fight enough said. In the words of SkyRock "this isn't a Jousting game it's a dogfighting game."
you are so far away from having a clue about what I am saying that this discussion never took place.
-
My physics of a head on attack are much simpler:
1. Only use as a last resort.
2. Aim at your prey.
3. Start firing at 1k out.
4. Pray he dies before you.
5. Win-Taunt opponent on 200 if I win.
Lose-Berate opponent on 200.
6. Win-Take congratulatory swig of beer.
Lose-Cuss out loud, get new plane.
No math involved.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :lol :lol
Now isn't that simple!
:rofl
-
<<S>>
<S>!
-
you are so far away from having a clue about what I am saying that this discussion never took place.
Maybe you are missing what he is saying. No?
-
One of the interesting aspects of fighting from below folks all the time is that often the only defense is to turn into the attack.
I had an interesting fight the other night where a Spit IX and 109K were both working me and my 38G from above. The 109K was running in, shooting and going back to his perch. The Spit IX got frustrated faster and started to turn with me and I was able to get him slow enough to kill him.
The 109 had continued to BnZ during my turn fight with the Spit. As he came down again I turned my nose into him and was stalled out nose on. He lit up like a christmas tree and because of his fast closing speed ran right through me shooting all the way until he rammed me.
He then came back on 200 almost immediately accusing me of HO'ing him. I pointed out that I hadn't shot at all nose on.
His reply was "Well you turned into me because you were going to HO!"
At that point all you can do is laugh. Guys are going to take the HO shot if they see it. It's all up to you whether you play that way or not.
And as no one is really dying and planes are free, I can't get too worked up about it :)
-
Maybe you are missing what he is saying. No?
I dont think so tim.
-
if i recall correctly, didn't AW3 have it set so a shot from....i thinki.....a 10 degree area off center from the nose wouldn't score hits?
Head on shots were disabled in AW, however, IIRC, planes with center mounted guns had a 25% chance of scoring a head on shot due to the randomizer.
ack-ack
-
You left out Decision 3. Roll underneath or above,merge then finish off the attacker. Anything else isn't worth thinking about.
<S>...-Gixer
Or Option #4, create seperation prior to the merge and then pull into the attack for a lead turn shot as he cuts across your nose.
ack-ack
-
His reply was "Well you turned into me because you were going to HO!"
Truly the best way to enjoy the game today is to have nothing whatsoever to do with global channel. Sad really, years ago it was
a vital part of the online experience. Today it is a worthless distraction, in my opinion.
-
in my humble opinion a HO shows lack of skill, and a degree of unwillingness to fight.
In my humble opinion, if you can't avoid a HO after reading all these swell tips and very good advice, you have no skill and a degree of unwillingness to learn.
:D
-
Oldie but a goodie.
Honch’s Guide to HO’ing
#1 Use a plane with 50 cals. Do not fear the heavy cannon planes like 190s and Typhoons. A 20mm, 30mm or 37mm cannon does no damage if it never hits you and if you follow the steps below they wont.
#2 Turn off tracers – so the other pilot won’t know when you start shooting.
#3 Set your convergences to the maximum distance allowed on your 50-cal plane of choice.
#4 To set up the shot, enter a dive until you are below the target then turn up into them so that when you will approach the other HO’er you will be in a slight climb. That way, if you both get damaged, you’ll be on the way up and they’ll be on the way down, ensuring that they smack the ground before you and thereby getting the kill (and the inevitable whine)
#5 Line up the shot so that you have the other plane in your sites at d2.0.
#6 Zoom in and target their left or right wing.
#7 Begin firing at d1.5 – Cease firing at d1.0 and veer off. Your 50s will continue on their laser-guided course until the other guy flies right into them.
#8 Use the ‘F’ key on the keyboard to fire so that your trigger finger doesn’t unsteady your shot.
#9 Turn fast and flat to avoid their cannon trajectory then turn back to them so that they cannot gain angles if they happen to survive.
#10 Be gracious when they whine. If they say “Nice HO jerk”, or something similar, Say: “Thanks! I use Honch’s guide to HO’ing!” -S-
Remember, it always takes 2 to Head-On so Happy HO'ing!
-
I had to open "klinks book of kombat" , and refer to the " losing a ho" chapter. It says right here to,.....GET A BIGGER CANNON. You all really should have known! :rock
-
What Ive never understood is why there is sooo much whining about something that is sooo easy to avoid. Each HO you get subjected to is your own fault. You let him HO you. If you get HOed often its just because you dont know how to merge properly. If you know how to merge your never gonna get HOed and your enemy is gonna be in a worse position then you allowing you to be in gunsolution on him in a matter of seconds.
I understand it can be frustrating to fail avoid a HO when its so easy but please its never the fault of the enemy.
Tex
-
think of a fight as a fight of angles.
u create your own angles & force your apponent to change his
after a while u will realize you can think moves(angles) ahead, force or bait your apponent into desired angle & finish him
strait on not an angle so u will get ho'd
create an angle if u dont wanna b ho'd
-
What Ive never understood is why there is sooo much whining about something that is sooo easy to avoid. Each HO you get subjected to is your own fault. You let him HO you. If you get HOed often its just because you dont know how to merge properly. If you know how to merge your never gonna get HOed and your enemy is gonna be in a worse position then you allowing you to be in gunsolution on him in a matter of seconds.
I understand it can be frustrating to fail avoid a HO when its so easy but please its never the fault of the enemy.
Tex
BINGO!!
-
What i do when someone is going to me right in front of me, is i slightly dive towards him like in 1 on 1 duels. When getting closer, littlebit more stick forward and fly under opposite plane then pulling stick back hard. Usually if opposite is hoer, he does split-S when trying to shoot me as i fly under him and then i have advantage. If he´s not hoer we hopefully get good dogfight.