Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: LEDPIG on March 27, 2008, 07:29:16 PM
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Question...
Why does the average music listener care about lyrics? As a amatuer musicians songwriter people are always asking what the words are, what a name means? I don't get it. I've never been drawn to music for lyrics, only the sounds and pronunciations and melody the sounds of the words create over the backdrop of a song. Why do people care what musicians are saying anyway?
Seem to be quite a few music lovers on here... any ideas?
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I like to know what they are saying instead of "RAHRAHLALAYEYEYERAHRAHRAHDOOD OODOORAHRAHDEDEBEBERORORO"
:)
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I've never understood it either but there are some songs where the lyrics make the song. As I've mentioned before Bob Seger's "Night Moves" and the Rolling Stones' "Sympathy For The Devil" are some of my favorites.
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If I don't like the lyrics, I don't like the song. Music should be poetry as far as I'm concerned.
I'm normally attracted to songs that have hidden meaning.
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That's also why Yes is still my all-tiem favorite rock band. Jon Anderson has stated that the words he chose for lyrics were aking to a musician picking notes; not so much for the meaning but what they add to the song. He formed his lyrics for sounds rather than meaning. I've listened to yes for almost 30 years now and I still can't tell you the lyrics to any song they've done the whole way through. Well, anything prior to 90215 that is.
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The lyrics typically tell a story and the music is what sets the mood.
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if its rap the lyrics matter. if its heavy metal the voice almost acks as an instrument. in rock it depends. but im more of an instumentalist guy. i could listen to a 10 min song with no lyrics all day if the bands good.
but in rap, rap is more of poetry so if it doesnt make since then the song generally sucks.
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i dont care about lyrics
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I recently picked up Rock Band for my PS3. I wasn't familiar with most of the songs but we have still had a lot of fun with this. Based on the lyrics in most of the included songs, I have to agree, lyrics don't seem to matter.
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I agree with Blooz, for me it's all about how well the lyrics and the music fit.
I've heard songs that have great lyrical content that are let down by the music, and excellent musical compositions that would have been better left as instrumentals.
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Iron Maiden is a good example of a band who's lyrics have obvious meaning. While Bob Dylan is a good example of hidden meaning.
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The lyrics make the song. Listen to a song where the singer just screams as loud as he/she can then listen to a song where they actually sing the words. I don't know about you but I can't stand songs where all you here is "YARRAGRERGRYAAAA!!".
I agree with Xargos. The lyrics should be poetic-like, but not all types of music should be. Some actually tell a story (Country is one that comes to mind even though I don't like it :) ).
That's why I like Nightwish alot. They play Rock/Metal, but the lyrics are poetic.
The lyrics might be interesting too. I especially love the way "Primo Victoria" by Sabaton starts
"Through the gates of hell
As we make our way to heaven
Through the Nazi lines
Primo victoria"
It really depends on what kind of person you are and what kind of music you like that the lyrics really matter.
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I don't care that much about lyrics, but I do appreciate how difficult they are to write and sing.
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His music moves me, and most are without lyrics.
And its free, if you like music and want something new, check it out.
http://www.fanaticalproductions.net
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Iron Maiden is a good example of a band who's lyrics have obvious meaning. While Bob Dylan is a good example of hidden meaning.
And Beck is a good example of words people say when they are wacked out on drugs.
from Loser:
"In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
butane in my veins and I'm out to cut the junkie
with the plastic eyeballs, spray-paint the vegetables
dog food stalls with the beefcake pantyhose
kill the headlights and put it in neutral
stock car flamin' with a loser and the cruise control
baby's in Reno with the vitamin D
got a couple of couches, sleep on the love-seat
someone came in sayin' I'm insane to complain
about a shotgun wedding and a stain on my shirt
don't believe everything that you breathe
you get a parking violation and a maggot on your sleeve
so shave your face with some mace in the dark
savin' all your food stamps and burnin' down the trailer park"
makes no sense at all but is still a great song
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I'm with Xargos, it's poetry. I'm an avid fan of Nirvana and Kurt Cobain stated numerous times that he just threw words together. Sometimes it's just interesting to know what they are actually saying, how they were feeling at the time, etc. It's hard to listen to a band like Rage Against the Machine just for the music alone because while the music is insane, Zack de la Rocha's voice AND lyrics are what made the song...a song.
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if its heavy metal the voice almost acks as an instrument.
just because you cant understand what they are saying, doesn't mean there isn't something being said.
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Play this a full volume on headphones if you can... Ignore the accompanying video, just close your eyes and listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-BL8DjEhOA&feature=related
about 1/2 way through the song you won't recognize a word for CERTAINTY but you feel the emotion of the voice overall. The only words stressed and audible are about sadness, and the song is the ultimate in remorse.
I'm sorry but I cry every time he screams in the solo, I have no clue what is said (I can look up the lyrics but I don't freaking care)
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I hardly ever listen to the lyrics. They're a side dish as far as I'm concerned.
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Question...
Why does the average music listener care about lyrics? As a amatuer musicians songwriter people are always asking what the words are, what a name means? I don't get it. I've never been drawn to music for lyrics, only the sounds and pronunciations and melody the sounds of the words create over the backdrop of a song. Why do people care what musicians are saying anyway?
Seem to be quite a few music lovers on here... any ideas? pick a luther vandross song and listen to it carefully, see if you don't come away with a different opinion
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I don't care that much about lyrics, but I do appreciate how difficult they are to write and sing.
Not true, they're pretty easy.
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Question...
Why does the average music listener care about lyrics? As a amatuer musicians songwriter people are always asking what the words are, what a name means? I don't get it. I've never been drawn to music for lyrics, only the sounds and pronunciations and melody the sounds of the words create over the backdrop of a song. Why do people care what musicians are saying anyway?
Seem to be quite a few music lovers on here... any ideas?
You've obviously never spent much time listening to Bob Dylan have you?
If not for the lyrics Dylan would be a wino living under a bridge cause the mans singing voice is enough to make dogs cry LOL
But seriously.
There can be pretty good songs without great lyrics.
But you will find that the truely great songs that stand the test of time almost always have great lyrics.
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The arrangement sets the mood. The lyrics deliver the message.
By no means do either have to be complex or esoteric to make a song "great". Not to contradict Dredlock but it seems the most memorable tunes have both fairly pedestrian scores and quite simple and sometimes pretty cheesy lyrics. But just like with food, not everything appeals to everybody. Even the most sophisticated palate will occasionally crave a hot dog.
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In the music business pretty much of a trained monkey can make the music. (And I believe a few of them are)
It takes talent to have lyrics that tell the story and get the message across.
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Play this a full volume on headphones if you can... Ignore the accompanying video, just close your eyes and listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-BL8DjEhOA&feature=related
about 1/2 way through the song you won't recognize a word for CERTAINTY but you feel the emotion of the voice overall. The only words stressed and audible are about sadness, and the song is the ultimate in remorse.
I'm sorry but I cry every time he screams in the solo, I have no clue what is said (I can look up the lyrics but I don't freaking care)
The Smashing Pumpkins are an excellent example of where music and lyrics meet and compliment each other so well... Billy Corgan is a brilliant songwriter
Tronsky
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"In the music business pretty much of a trained monkey can make the music. (And I believe a few of them are)"
Jackal,
Not trying to be provocative here but I gotta ask......
What do you play?
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Not trying to be provocative here but I gotta ask......
What do you play?
Aces HighII mostly . :)
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:rofl
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Bests Rock Instrumental: Jessica, Allman Brothers. There's one that lyrics would ruin.
As for lyrics, I much prefer songs with lyrics, at least if I can understand most of the lyrics. The gargling razorblades school of vocals doesn't only leave me cold, it makes me leave.
Rock songs with great lyrics? Too many to list I think. Sympathy/Stones, Night Moves/Seeger, Jack & Diane/Mellencamp, man there's LOTS of them.
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Jack & Diane/Mellencamp
Mellencamp is a master of story telling and getting the point across with lyrics.
Skynyrd is another.
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Yeah, see... Skynrd is another great example.
I know I'm stepping on younger toes here but when you compare that kind of work, music & lyrics, against the "max out the amps, max out the distortion and we'll gargle razor blades for the lyrics" work... well, there really isn't a comparison.
I probably sound like my dad praising Glenn Miller when I was listening to rock in the late 60's. :)
I have long since come to appreciate Miller along with a lot of other types of music. In his genre, Miller is outstanding.
I still can't find a place in my catalog for rap or the razor blade music though.
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You guys are just old.... lyrics no longer matter.. at least to women.
How else would you explain white girls and boys listening to rap?
lazs
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I remember this one rap that got regular rotation for years, I never hear it anymore. Can't remember the name but the rapper's name as I recall was Joni Mitchell.
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Yeah.. how high on the rap charts is she today? How many folk singer albums are sold today.. I say albums cause that was the last medium they were on.
lazs
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That's also why Yes is still my all-tiem favorite rock band. Jon Anderson has stated that the words he chose for lyrics were aking to a musician picking notes; not so much for the meaning but what they add to the song. He formed his lyrics for sounds rather than meaning. I've listened to yes for almost 30 years now and I still can't tell you the lyrics to any song they've done the whole way through. Well, anything prior to 90215 that is.
Same here... these guys are in a class of their own :aok
For me lyrics only detract from a song when I don't like what they have to say.
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Funny, I remember Joni Mitchell as one of the most poetic of lyric writers. I can't recall a rap song by her but it's been years since I listened to any of her newer stuff. Just kind of forgot about her.
Song to a Seagull and Clouds... there was some songwriting in those two. I like Mitchell.
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God I suck.
I was referring to J. Baez.
Sorry.
Favorite bands aside. The question was about the relevance of lyrics. Sorta.
With exception to the new trend of cookie monster singers, which even I will concede are silly, even if they're nonsensical or banal, they are integral to modern music. Not requisite but often key to really getting what a composition is about.
Why?.......Who cares?
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I Dig The Backward Mesages Maaaaaaaaan. Trippy
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Because no matter how much Night Train or Mad Dog 20 20 you buy or how much you are paying by the hour... Barry White without the lyrics will not get that special Texan woman in the mood for love.
"Darling, I, can't get enough of your love babe."
:O
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I personally am a fan of people like John Lennon, who say such things as, "Yellow mellow custard, dripping from a dead dogs eye". Or Bob Dylan saying "Jewels and binoculars hang from the head of the mule". Such lyrics to me evoke pictures in my mind and create controversy and speculation and interest.
Usually such musicians don't look at the world in such a literal sense and use strange sounds and words to evoke weird pictures and ideas.
I also like song's like Metallica's "One" that tell a story of a man horribly injured by war. Even the music sounds thought provoking, with the machine gun like intervals of stacatto electric guitar.
Songs like Jimmi Hendrix's machine gun are amazing. When a man has the ability to sum up the 60's in raw form not just with lyrics, but mostly with an electric guitar sound that sounds as tormented as the time itself, thats not music, it's an exorcism. Lyrics should exorcise very internal feelings that the listener didn't even know they had.
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Check out some old Dr. Hook songs....
Good stuff...
Beginning of Southern Rock.
Beginning of Disco.
Songs that hit the heart makin ya wanna cry.
Songs that will make ya laff yer arse off.
:aok
Mac
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Yeah, see... Skynrd is another great example.
I know I'm stepping on younger toes here but when you compare that kind of work, music & lyrics, against the "max out the amps, max out the distortion and we'll gargle razor blades for the lyrics" work... well, there really isn't a comparison.
I probably sound like my dad praising Glenn Miller when I was listening to rock in the late 60's. :)
I have long since come to appreciate Miller along with a lot of other types of music. In his genre, Miller is outstanding.
I still can't find a place in my catalog for rap or the razor blade music though.
Well, with any music, at any time, you'll find that some will pick a particularly grating sound solely because most normal people don't find it pleasant.
I personally like when they crank the distortion and play fast paced music. But I just don't enjoy the "Scary voice" singing.
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Bob Dylan Rap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srgi2DkDbPU
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLgGGW_emjY&feature=related
Needs more Cowbell...
Uh Huh...
Mac
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but mostly with an electric guitar sound that sounds as tormented as the time itself, thats not music, it's an exorcism. Lyrics should exorcise very internal feelings that the listener didn't even know they had.
LMAO
That might be a tad over the top.
I peed on an electric fence one time and it didn`t move me that much. :lol
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Lyrics help Texans to hum along.
:rofl
Dammm that was bad.... sorry ya'll.
Mac
:rofl
No Texan Left behind.. Dammit Slow the frikken Cattle down!!!
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LOL
You on a roll Macster.
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Yeppers....
Dammm this is good.
:rofl
Mac
This will only get "UGLY..." which what appears on most Texan Birth Certificates...
Dammm can't stop myself now.
Handicap spots are only reserved in Oklahoma if Texans place their Diplomas ON the passenger side.
Dammm...
I think I hurt myself... nope... I'm birthin a Texan...Dammm.
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Well, with any music, at any time, you'll find that some will pick a particularly grating sound solely because most normal people don't find it pleasant.
I personally like when they crank the distortion and play fast paced music. But I just don't enjoy the "Scary voice" singing.
Nine Inch Nails is one band that comes to mind, that plays with a grating razor blade sound. Some of the harshest, darkest, morbid, angriest, depressed, music ever put to record. I like extremes, The beatles and their beautiful melodies, to Pantera and Dime's brutal guitar sound.
The lyrics on the downward spiral, should be checked out. Could be the soundtrack to a trip through a depressed, introverted person's pshyche. Seems to sum up some of the mechanization of society and the loss of the "human" element in our lives that drives, i believe some of these serial killers and mall shooters today.
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Mellencamp is a master of story telling and getting the point across with lyrics.
Skynyrd is another.
Also master song writers
Gordon Lightfoot (not just the Wreck of the Edmond fitzgerald either)
If you could read my mind
Sundown
Don Quixote
Jim Croce-
One less set of footsteps
Lovers cross
Leroy Brown (written about a real person) http://youtube.com/watch?v=ru5exYqe5_M
Workin At the Carwash blues
Speedball tucker
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Yeah.. how high on the rap charts is she today? How many folk singer albums are sold today.. I say albums cause that was the last medium they were on.
lazs
i dont know about album sales...but the folk festivals are always well attended.
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As a drummer, I really never pay attention to lyrics.. I listen to the rhythms / melodies first.. I catch a lyric here or there it doesnt happen often..
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As a drummer, I really never pay attention to lyrics.. I listen to the rhythms / melodies first.. I catch a lyric here or there it doesnt happen often..
Wish you were in Houston area, i need a drummer for this project...... :) :rock
http://www.myspace.com/groovegrinder
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Also master song writers
Gordon Lightfoot (not just the Wreck of the Edmond fitzgerald either)
If you could read my mind
Sundown
Don Quixote
Jim Croce-
One less set of footsteps
Lovers cross
Leroy Brown (written about a real person) http://youtube.com/watch?v=ru5exYqe5_M
Workin At the Carwash blues
Speedball tucker
Amen
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Gotta love Oklahoma women.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iYpboTjtoQ&feature=related
Daaaay Yum!
:aok
Mac
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Tell those that listened to Croce in the '70's that lyrics don't matter.
You're just too young to understand Music.
Mac
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Rap music (an oxymoron if there ever was one) would be just what without the lyrics?
On the other hand, last time I went to the Opera, it was like they were singing in a foreign language.
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I got a letter from the government the other day
I opened it and read it
It said they were suckers
They wanted me for the Army or whatever
Picture me givin' a damn
I said never!
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So 1, 2, 3, whata we fightin for?
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They held their heads with laughs of pain
They learned from men who'd just refrain
From glancing at a mirror's face
Seven screaming diz-busters who lurked by a rose
Had iron for a bloodstream and ice behind their eyes
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I got a letter from the government the other day
I opened it and read it
It said they were suckers
They wanted me for the Army or whatever
Picture me givin' a damn
I said never!
And yer still living in the Land of Freedom until someone takes your plastic Camaro away...
Then you might get pissed and defend America,
Go Figure.
Mac
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And yer still living in the Land of Freedom until someone takes your plastic Camaro away...
Then you might get pissed and defend America,
Go Figure.
Mac
If somebody takes away his chevy, what is he gonna drive to the levee?
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Ohhh well... "Bye, Bye Miss American Pie...."
:D
Mac
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She spreads herself wide open to let the insects in
She leaves a trail of honey to show me where she's been
She leaves has the blood of a reptile just underneath that skin
Seeds from a thousand others drip down from within
oh my beautiful liar
oh my precious potato
my disease my infection
i am so impure
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I don't believe LEDPIG drug his Mom into this thread.
Just too disgusting.
Kids.
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Maybe music is just a bit more literal and honest about atrocities that have been occuring, throughout time. Before people would hide from certain things, not any more. I believe the transition occured somewhere in the sixties, from Donna Reed, to Rosanne bar.
Popular culture has changed (music as well), is it for the better? I don't know sometimes i think kids these days are exposed to too much these days before they are ready, horribly tainting and erasing the innocent discoveries of their childhoods. I believe this is the reason for some of the horrible events, we see today. Breakdowns of society, it will most likely continue, once the door has been opened it can never be closed again....
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HAHA Mac! ya took the hook, line, sinker, reel and rod! WTG!!!
Oh, and Camaros aren't plastic, Corvettes are.
:noid
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cameros are made of old tricycle parts.
girly ones.
:cool:
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Yes they are.
But CamAros are made of titanium and old R-2800 radial engines!
VARRRROOOOOM!!!! ;)
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So 1, 2, 3, whata we fightin for?
Don`t ask me because I don`t give a damn.
Next stop[ is........................... ....
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A song with deep meaning. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFNKy31F4q8)
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Quote from: DmonSlyr on March 27, 2008, 08:39:28 PM
if its heavy metal the voice almost acks as an instrument.
just because you cant understand what they are saying, doesn't mean there isn't something being said.
That is true, Vorticon, to be sure. However, Demonslayer has a point with vocals also being an instrument.
This is not restricted to heavy metal either, the voice is an instrument and it is only different from any other instrument in that we, as humans, have attributed meanings to specific sequences of spoken sounds. It would be no different to attributing a specific meaning to each of the components of the harmonic minor scale, for example.
The key difference in the understanding of the vocal instrument and the physical instrument is that one conjours defined ideas where as the other paints a more ambiguous picture that lays open to interpretation. Music can be written to be sad, happy, hateful, violent, joyous or anything the writer desires. Words can also be used to conjure these same feelings.... words are just part of a more defined structure of communication.
Having said all of this, lyrics have varying degrees of importance in different genres. In my opinion the larger part of easily accessable music (top 40 charts etc) consists of music devoid of any lyrical importance. Lets face it, there's the undying love song, the break-up song, the 'I want to be the popular kid at school song', the 'you are beautiful' song, the (and very common these days) 'I am a filthy, diseased potato and I want to suck your ----' song and also the 'I am such a pimp, suck my ----' song. This is a sample of the tried and tested money spinners and each year sees the rehashing of the 'proven' forumla. Hence, lyrics don't matter in 'popular' music because they're a selling tool not a thoughtful piece of writing.
Given the popularity of 'rap' and other such styles of predominately vocal-driven music one would assume that lyrics would indeed be of great importance. This seems to be a misplaced assumption on the whole. I will, however, not write off the vast amounts of underground 'artists' (and I use that term lightly in this case) who may have a substantial message to go with their excuse for music. Perhaps you can tell that I am not fond of rap music?
There are also bands that exist solely for the expression of a particular message. Political rock bands, political metal bands, satanic and occult metal bands... the list goes on. In all of these the music serves only to carry the vocals which project a (sometimes) clear and intended message.
So it seems to me that lyrics have absolutely no point in many cases (particularly in cases where they should), though there are also forms of musical expression that do rely solely on vocal expression and also portray a serious message. In these cases it seems impossible to question the necessity of lyrics.
Hopefully this provides some food for thought.
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You guys are just old.... lyrics no longer matter.. at least to women.
How else would you explain white girls and boys listening to rap?
lazs
Now this is funny. Saying lyrics don't matter and using as an example a song form that is nothing but lyric.
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Sarcasm tags need to be mandatory for the benefit of the lost.
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Sarcasm tags need to be mandatory for the benefit of the lost.
:aok
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Sarcasm tags need to be mandatory for the benefit of the lost.
Brilliantly put.
(Sarcasm tag here)
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So the light bulb just went on, huh? :rofl
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Only if you just pulled the little string in your basement.
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Never heard that song before.
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Why do lyrics matter? Easy, they are supposed to work with music to complete the "vehicle" of delivery. Sometimes the music comes to the driver's seat of the vehicle and sometimes the lyrics are in the driver's seat.
JB73, Soma is one of my all-time fav. tunes. Are you talking about:
"So let the sadness come again
On that you can depend on me
Until the bitter, bitter end
When good sleeps in bliss." This part?
Take "Unknown Soldier" for example. Without the lyrics this blatant Vietnam War protest song wouldn't be a good tune. The radio stations had NO IDEA this was a protest type song and played it routinely back then.
Arlo Guthrie, Warren Zevon, Dylan, Jim Morrison and Bernie Taupin are lyrical gymnasts. Doesn't matter the lyric structure, they all work. They are geniuses.
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Wish you were in Houston area, i need a drummer for this project...... :) :rock
http://www.myspace.com/groovegrinder
:rock on dude..
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Houston sux.
Katy Litter.
Oh well.
Mac
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See Rules #4, #5
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You from Katy Mac.
Nope... My Daughter lived there once. I visited her during a Halliburton thingy.
Mac
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Listen to Mad World by Gary Jules. Without lyrics, it would be...akward...
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See Rules #4, #5
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I thought about posting in this earlier, but I think the answer (to the original question) is yes and no...depends on the artist. I was just listening to some early U2, back when they were much more expressive about their religion. Bono (love or hate him) really poured his heart into writing some songs. To ignore the lyrics would just be blasphemy (pun intended).
On the other hand, some artists just right down some gibberish to make it sound melodious or interesting...Happy Mondays come to mind.
So there you have it :)
Please return to your regular programming....
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The lyrics typically tell a story and the music is what sets the mood.
Winnar!!!!
This is true atleast for me. I wrote the first and only song that my band has right now. Lyrics tell the story and music sets the mood. Could have set it better myself.
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Lyrics matter....at least for me:
"I grew up a-dreamin'
of bein' a cowboy,
and lovin' the cowboy ways.
Pursuin' the life
of my high-ridin' heroes
I burned up my childhood days.
I learned all the rules
of a modern-day drifter,
don't you hold on
to nothin' too long.
Just take what ya need
from the ladies
then leave them,
were the words
of a sad country song.
My heroes have always been cowboys,
and they still are it seems.
Sadly in search of
and one step in back of
themselves, and their
slow-movin' dreams.
________________
willie Nelson