Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: beau32 on March 27, 2008, 08:11:48 PM

Title: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: beau32 on March 27, 2008, 08:11:48 PM
Hey guys, just sitting here reading some info on the B-25 and I had a Idea that probably hasent come up yet in the forums about it. In WW2 when they used the 25 to strafe targets, they would sometimes lock the top turret in the forward position to bring a extra pair of guns into the field of fire. What do you think of adding that to the game. Could you make it a extra gun package? So you can have that instead of being able to defend yourself with the top turret. Or use it to defend against attacking planes, but not be able to lock it forward. It wouldnt be a big thing in the game cause you wouldnt need to really change any flight model. Nothing would really get changed as a matter of fact. It could just mean the difference in getting that last building down or something. Just curious as to what yall thought about it. Here is a quote from a website, as well as the link to it.  :rock

General George Kenney called the North American B-25 Mitchell a "War Dog". He should know; he helped write the book on the B-25. General Kenney was commander of the Fifth Air Force in the South Pacific during WWII. Trying to fight off the Japanese in a "secondary combat theater" (as the Pacific war was regarded) meant "making do, with what you had". Prosecuting the war against Japan called for a lot of ingenuity. Kenney was forced to use what he could scrape together and make effective. He came up with the ideas and "Pappy" Gunn put the ideas to work. One of the first ideas was the installation of a machine gun "pack". The bombardiers compartment was removed and replaced with four .50 cal (12.7 mm) machine guns in the nose of the Mitchell and four more in blisters on the sides of the craft. The B-25 became an awesome strafing machine with eight forward firing guns. Later, they rigged a lock for the top turret making a total of ten .50 cal (12.7 mm) machine guns, all lit off simultaneously by one finger of the pilot!

Then came the installation of the 75 mm cannon. It required a crewman to load, fire and extract the casing. And when it fired it felt like the aircraft had "hit a brick wall", but with its 2.95 inch (75 mm) projectile, it could turn a tank into scrap metal and punch very large holes in Japanese destroyers and barges at a range of nearly 2 miles. The Japanese paid dearly for the ideas of Kenney and the ingenuity of Gunn.

http://www.aviation-history.com/north-american/b25.html




my $.02
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: snowey on March 27, 2008, 08:14:22 PM
i wouldnt use it but sure :aok
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: EskimoJoe on March 27, 2008, 08:26:28 PM
As if it didn't have enough guns already  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: beau32 on March 27, 2008, 09:22:10 PM
As if it didn't have enough guns already  :rolleyes:

Sure, But you can never have enough guns!
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: Devonai on March 27, 2008, 10:34:28 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're pressing the "fire all guns" key (wherever you mapped it), then if the gun position is in enfilade to the one you're targeting it will also fire, right?  If your angle of attack is sufficient for a ground target in the B25 Hotel, won't the top gun fire already?
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: angelsandair on March 27, 2008, 10:55:39 PM
no
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: C(Sea)Bass on March 27, 2008, 10:58:13 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're pressing the "fire all guns" key (wherever you mapped it), then if the gun position is in enfilade to the one you're targeting it will also fire, right?  If your angle of attack is sufficient for a ground target in the B25 Hotel, won't the top gun fire already?
nope. the only way to make turrets fire is to be in a turret. You cannot fire any turret guns from the pilots seat, unless you include the rear-facing 20mm's on the AR-234.
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: Devonai on March 28, 2008, 10:02:10 AM
That's right, thank you.  I should have remembered that from flying the B-26.
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: Yossarian on March 28, 2008, 10:10:50 AM
Seems like a fine idea to me - can't think of any reason why not to use it.

<S>

Yossarian
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: beau32 on March 28, 2008, 05:25:59 PM
Yep, they used it in WW2 and will add no real advantage to anything in the game, other than 2 more guns to fire forward.
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 28, 2008, 06:18:21 PM
Yep, they used it in WW2 and will add no real advantage to anything in the game, other than 2 more guns to fire forward.

And having two additional guns isn't a worthwhile advantage?  Seems like increased firepower to me is always a good thing *shrug*

ack-ack
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: Yossarian on March 28, 2008, 06:22:35 PM
"Every gun counts"   <---   I'm sure someone said this...don't know who though :D
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: Saxman on March 28, 2008, 07:36:38 PM
I'd say go for it. The turrets really aren't much use for defense as it is, so it would be an EXCELLENT option to have.

And then, if we ever get a B-25J strafer that would make for a total of 14 forward .50cal  :aok

*waits for Krusty to show up and wet himself with glee over that thought* ;)
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: hubsonfire on March 28, 2008, 08:11:31 PM
Take a gunner, but yeah, I'd like to see this possible.
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 28, 2008, 08:38:07 PM
Whenever the perk ordnance system is added, I think being able to lock the top turret in the forward position should be one of the perkable options along with parafrags, rockets and torpedos.


ack-ack
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: C(Sea)Bass on March 28, 2008, 08:43:39 PM
I'd say go for it. The turrets really aren't much use for defense as it is, so it would be an EXCELLENT option to have.

And then, if we ever get a B-25J strafer that would make for a total of 14 forward .50cal  :aok

*waits for Krusty to show up and wet himself with glee over that thought* ;)

I can't wait to HO some people in that!
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: moot on March 28, 2008, 11:00:20 PM
Not gonna work on anything but relatively far and/or big targets.
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: beau32 on March 29, 2008, 09:27:17 AM
What i ment by no real advantage is that its not going to change the game in a huge way, if really at all. Only usefull for gunning down the buildings, and the ocasional HO. Seeing it perked would be a good way of doing it.
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: CartoonFlyer on March 29, 2008, 11:16:48 AM
One of the other failed online WWII air combat simulations had this option.
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: 1701E on March 29, 2008, 11:26:12 AM
Ooh ooh i want.  that way i can waste even more bullets on people that underestimate my B-25 flying  :D.  and the idiots that think they can out HO me can eat even more bullets  :eek: (even had a 262 try and out HO me)...the most un-lucky one that attempted a HO was N1k that poor fella HOed than dove down and took a 75mm to the cockpit.
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: Noir on March 29, 2008, 07:54:33 PM
never underestimate a hoing nik
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: Yossarian on March 29, 2008, 08:37:34 PM
1701E, I would like to respectfully point out that you are the one who appears to be underestimating your opponent, underestimating your opponent's head-on, and overestimating your own head-on.

Therefore, I would like to make two points:
a)   it only takes one bullet, of any caliber, to hit your pilot in the head, and send you straight back to the tower.  A .303 round will be just as, if not more effective, than a 75mm HE artillery shell - the machine gun will have a much greater rate of fire, therefore more chance of a hit, and will probably be easier to aim.  However, your 10 or more .50 calibers will usually do the trick :D .
b)   don't forget that if you miss, and your opponent gets on your 6, you may be in some serious trouble.

<S>

Yossarian

P.S. Nice shot with that field gun!! I would love to see a screenshot of  that!
Title: Re: B-25H Top Turret
Post by: 1701E on March 30, 2008, 12:54:09 PM
1701E, I would like to respectfully point out that you are the one who appears to be underestimating your opponent, underestimating your opponent's head-on, and overestimating your own head-on.

Therefore, I would like to make two points:
a)   it only takes one bullet, of any caliber, to hit your pilot in the head, and send you straight back to the tower.  A .303 round will be just as, if not more effective, than a 75mm HE artillery shell - the machine gun will have a much greater rate of fire, therefore more chance of a hit, and will probably be easier to aim.  However, your 10 or more .50 calibers will usually do the trick :D .
b)   don't forget that if you miss, and your opponent gets on your 6, you may be in some serious trouble.

<S>

Yossarian

P.S. Nice shot with that field gun!! I would love to see a screenshot of  that!

It's less of me underestimating them and me overestimating.  I know all too well about pilot wound, because i get em from panzer pintle guns all the time.  It's more of they come head on fire a short burst, i take this to mean they want to ho so i unload on them.  After they die i almost always get a pm saying "theres no way you lived through those 20mms and killed me with .50 cals" (i got that one a few days ago).  But if people would start to understand that .50 cals don't do to much in very little amounts but 10 guns and a fast rate of first does.  But yes sometimes i underestimate them and they can aim reeaally well (or luck who knows).