Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Fencer51 on March 27, 2008, 09:29:00 PM
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Ok first let me explain where this is coming from and what assumptions I made.
JG11 was assigned at least 6 TA152s. Two of these had been traced to WkN 150009 CW+CI and 150010 CW+CJ. Now recent info has came out that 150010 might indeed be 150020.
According to the book "F o c k e -Wufl TA152" by Harmann a Leuntnant in Stab JG11 has said that all the planes seemed to be test aircraft since no two were alike. They were enaged by Spits during their transfer to Leck and lost two of the TA152s and a third belly landed.
The following is a photo of a TA152 at Leck.
(http://www.4thfg.org/Fencer/wk150025a.jpg)
(http://www.4thfg.org/Fencer/wk150025b.jpg)
There is a third image but it is not already in the "web" and I do not want to scan it and post it.
This plane has been described as FW190 V18/US, CF+OY. It has also been postulated that it might be TA152H-1 WkN 150025 coded CW+CY.
Either of which were most probably assigned to JG11. CF+0Y (WkN 0 040) was a TA152H in all but original build, it had been modified to a TA152H. This plane was a prototype and used in November 1944 as a conversion trainer. It disappears from the paper trail in December when it was slightly damaged and got the new wooden tail planned for production aircraft. It is possible it was assigned to JG11 in April 1945 and would explain how it ended up as shown above. If it is 0025 then it was similarly assigned to JG11 at that time. The only data for 0025 is that she was test flown in January.
Now the skin..
(http://www.4thfg.org/Fencer/JG11152_1.jpg)
(http://www.4thfg.org/Fencer/JG11152_2.jpg)
(http://www.4thfg.org/Fencer/JG11152_3.jpg)
I gave it the plane code of 'Black 5' as the TA152 at the NASM is purported to be "Black 2" and is a JG11 aircraft.
It still needs some dirt around the wheel wells and some chipping.
The bloody board will not let me use "F o c k e" as it renders it focke :rofl
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Holy crap Fencer! :O Outstanding work bro! :aok
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Looks good Fencer. I think the wings camo usualy goes up to the end of the merging panel between wing and fuselage, at the wing root.
You know for sure the elevators were unpainted? I guess that's in the other pic.
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Looks great Ken. Look forward to flying it. And thank you for helping validate what I have been preaching for years. :rock
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Looks good Fencer. I think the wings camo usualy goes up to the end of the merging panel between wing and fuselage, at the wing root.
You know for sure the elevators were unpainted? I guess that's in the other pic.
Yeah Moot, I will scan it and send it to you for your references you are gathering. I got that TA152 book yesterday and it was in it. Do you have Harmann's book? There is also a table of the planes with some info about each in it.
Got an opinion on whether the ribs on the elevs will show? In the pic (which is taken from directly behind) they do not show, but should I put them in here?
Thanks All. You are welcome Stampf. :aok
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Which Ta152 book?
Yep, I have Harmann's.
Yes, I think the ribs should be visible, there's no paint to subdue their shape.. The close-up pic of 167 in the 152 thread, taken from above the tail, shows undulations topside of the flaps. So I'd say the elevator ribs should show.
Thanks for the extra refs :)
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Look at page 85, that is the picture I was refering too. I took the elevs to be RLM76.
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How'd I miss that.. I'm not sure if that's 76 or bare metal (looks kinda matte), but I definitely can't see the ribs at all.
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Absolutely amazing work! :rock
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Looking good, Fencer. I like the green on green camo there, nice colours.
The only thing I can pick on it is the spinner... The spiral is a bit rough and pixelated.
That may be a compression issue with the jpeg upload of course.
Very nice work, though.
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That's as good a compromise as I'm getting on the hub, between sharp and aliased, and soft and blurry.
I hope we get two more weeks before the next pack submission deadline.
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BTW, while I am thinking about it, thanks to Moot for the sharing of his TA152 info, helping me with the 30mm cannon chute location, advice on the colors and a few other things I am no doubt forgetting. :aok
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You're welcome.. :)
I think the spiral might've been shorter. I'm going to look thru pics and profiles to make sure, but I think I've noticed a trend towards shorter spirals as the war reached the end. It's up to you though, that long a spiral wasn't so rare either.
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According to the book "F o c k e -Wufl TA152" by Harmann a Leuntnant in Stab JG11 has said that all the planes seemed to be test aircraft since no two were alike. They were enaged by Spits during their transfer to Leck and lost two of the TA152s and a third belly landed.
Fencer, according to an individual arguing in another thread against the red/orange Ta152, test birds can not be included by his logic.
Not that I agree, just curious on your opinion on that?
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Fencer, according to an individual arguing in another thread against the red/orange Ta152, test birds can not be included by his logic.
Not that I agree, just curious on your opinion on that?
Well I hate to agree with that individual on most topics, but he is right this time. I am going to quote a few posts from another board below.
Hello,
As seen in J. Crandall's book, p.155, I'd like to know the RLM color code(s) that was used in the paint for this bird, and if it isn't an official RLM number, any hint for me to find as accurate a digital (CMYK/RGB/etc) color value as possible.
Thanks in advance,
m.
Hi,
After Mr. Auffhammer and others related the story involving the red-orange Ta152 I built and painted four Ta152 models for them to choose the correct color rather than to rely on a verbal description. The one every one agreed on was painted with a mixture of about 25% RLM 04 Yellow and 75% RLM 23 Red. One of the parties involved remarked "I'll never forget that color I can see it like it was yesterday". Mr. Auffhammer said he wanted the brightest red they could mix.
Cheers, Jerry
I couldn't have wished for a better answer
Can I ask one last question Mr. Crandall? Do you know if, by any chance, this Ta152 was flown in any sort of combat action (even dodging attacks as K.Tank was reported to have done) in the 24 hours or so it was borrowed, or if it definitely did not encounter anything of the sort?
Thank you,
m.
Hi, For that one flight when it was painted red-orange there was no contact with enemy aircraft.
Cheers, Jerry
If anyone would know at this removed time from the actual date, Jerry Crandall would. I can see the argument from both sides, its a war zone, its late in the war, there are so few skins for this plane etc.. but it is a slippery slope. Would 'Yippee' be next?
I would recommend against it being put in game.
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Fencer, Yippee did not go over seas. The red/orange Ta152 was in a combat zone...
Who really knows.
Either way, your skin work looks great as usual.
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Thanks.
I understand about Yippee. It was the only colorful plane I could think of for an example.
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The exact question to ask mr. Crandall is if he'd be so kind as to tell us what he thinks happened to the plane after the evaluation was over.
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The exact question to ask mr. Crandall is if he'd be so kind as to tell us what he thinks happened to the plane after the evaluation was over.
they probably parked it as advanced planes in the era were in such abundance that they did not need it. :lol
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good skin
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they probably parked it as advanced planes in the era were in such abundance that they did not need it. :lol
I have no way of knowing, but wouldn't it have been common sense to repaint it? If I were the pilot, I wouldn't be happy about flying a plane painted like a target into combat.
After evaluation, I mean.
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Even long BEFORE the 152 was out, pilots didn't want to paint bright colors on their tail because it made the allies single them out as an "ace" or "expert" and they all scrambled to bag the "master" pilot. One 190d pilot knew this and painted his tail yellow anyways, because all of his other pilots were very green and needed a que on whom to form.
I believe he got shot down for it.
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That was Oblt. Hans Dortenman.
...I hound my Staffel to fly as many practice missions as possible. We fly in any weather. They have given me freedom of action. With Weiss and the Gruppe I have direct telephone contact but I receive no orders. In a short period of time I mold the Staffel into a fighting unit, train my Rotten and Schwarm leaders and look with a little more confidence to the future. In order that my pilots always know where their boss is I order that my aircraftıs tail is painted bright yellow. That is very colorful and can be seen for a great distance. I donıt care if the Americans and British will take mine to be a leaders aircraft; I have my pride too. With my little yellow tail everything works out fine. I donıt have to scream my head off when the novices fly after the wrong aircraft during a diving attack and they save themselves a dressing down after they land.
Even later while flying with 3./JG27 he kept the yellow paint but only on the tail plane, despite the fact that these colorful markings were prohibited in January 1945.
-www.rlm.at
Truekill skinned Dortenman's III.JG 54 Dora with that yellow tail.
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I think the weathering looks horrible, the rest looks oke i guess.
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My little ankle humper's comment asside, I am submitting this as soon as I get a look at what the revised intake scoop does to the plane model.
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It doesn't substitute for seeing what it'll actualy do, but this is what it should look like:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,230687.0.html