Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: TonyJoey on March 29, 2008, 11:15:26 PM

Title: The f4f ENY value
Post by: TonyJoey on March 29, 2008, 11:15:26 PM
   The f4f ENY value is currently 20. The 109 K-4 also has an ENY value of 20. Now take this into cosideration: If the K-4 and a f4f went 1v1 same alt, co-E who would win? I know that the f4f pilot can evade the 109 evertime he dives on him (Givin' that the K-4 will obtain an altitude advantage very easily at the merge, unless a total noob is flying the 109), but sooner or later the 109 will get a shot on the f4f or run out of ammo and escape with ease (on account of the huge speed difference between the 2 aircraft), giving the f4f absolutely no chance to kill the 109, even though he might obtain 1 very quick snapshot on the 109, but if the 109 pilot has any skill there's no way he will let him get the shot. The 109 K-4 is by no stretch of the imagination even to an f4f, meaning that the ENY value should not be the same. Please hear me out on this. I believe that the f4f's ENY value should be changed to atleast 30 (a 38g also has an ENY of 30 and can beat an f4f if flown correctly, but this would be a much more even fight than a K-4 vs, a f4f), and the Fm2's ENY value should be changed to around 22-25 because of the option of WEP, but is still no where near as good as a K-4. I hope HTC will hear me out on this and change this.

                                                                                                                                              TJ
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: EskimoJoe on March 29, 2008, 11:22:06 PM
The better pilot will always cream you, even if you're in a 109K4 and he's in a Spit 1.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: Banshee7 on March 30, 2008, 12:19:58 AM
i think the F4F should stay 20, FM2 changed to 15, and Hellkity changed to 10
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: ShrkBite on March 30, 2008, 12:54:28 AM
 :noid
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: TonyJoey on March 30, 2008, 02:45:44 AM
The better pilot will always cream you, even if you're in a 109K4 and he's in a Spit 1.

The better pilot won't always win. If i dueled TwinBoom (who pwns me) i would not lose because i could always run and there's nothing he can do about that in an F4f
i think the F4F should stay 20, FM2 changed to 15, and Hellkity changed to 10

 
So banshee you're saying that a 109 K-4 is as good as an F4f, a KI-84 is as good as an Fm2, and that a F6f is as good as a spit8 or a typh which i kinda believe is true bat should stay 15.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: Anaxogoras on March 30, 2008, 03:57:26 AM
The better pilot will always cream you, even if you're in a 109K4 and he's in a Spit 1.

That's an invalid generalization.  A good pilot can beat a weak one in a better aircraft up to a certain point... try to win a co-alt engagement with an aircraft that is slower, turns worse, rolls worse, climbs worse, etc.  If these differences are small then the advantage is still with the better pilot, but make the differences great and the tables turn.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: moot on March 30, 2008, 04:36:17 AM
The better pilot won't always win. If i dueled TwinBoom (who pwns me) i would not lose because i could always run and there's nothing he can do about that in an F4f
In which case TwinBoom has won by your forfeit.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: Sketch on March 30, 2008, 09:54:40 AM
In which case TwinBoom has won by your forfeit.
:rofl :lol
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: Gowan on March 30, 2008, 12:21:42 PM
there is some validity to the better pilot vs. avg joe in better plane,  i actually just yesterday got my arse handed to me by a hurri1 when i was in a ki-84, and the 84 basically is better in every aspect
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: TonyJoey on March 30, 2008, 12:56:01 PM
Guys I know that the better pilot will usually win. However these two planes are nowhere near an equal fight, so the ENY should not be the same. Ok lets say i killed a 262 in a K-4, and then killed a 262 in an F4F. Now from which plane's 262 kill SHOULD I get more perkies for.

In which case TwinBoom has won by your forfeit.
  :cry :lol
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: evenhaim on March 30, 2008, 03:49:49 PM
f4f has:
6 50's= more ammo, better long range hitting power.
Smaller turn radius.
Can out-dive a k4 in terms of compression.

and many other little quirks that make it a viable match up for the k4.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: Bronk on March 30, 2008, 04:13:27 PM
f4f has:
6 50's= more ammo, better long range hitting power.
Smaller turn radius.
Can out-dive a k4 in terms of compression.

and many other little quirks that make it a viable match up for the k4.

You are kidding right?
2 equal pilots and the K4 will utterly dominate the fight. He will choose the time to engage and will be able to disengage almost at will.
They are far from equal.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: Anaxogoras on March 30, 2008, 04:40:10 PM
You are kidding right?
2 equal pilots and the K4 will utterly dominate the fight. He will choose the time to engage and will be able to disengage almost at will.
They are far from equal.

I have to agree.  As someone who frequently flys the K4, F4F's are just not a threat unless you are low and slow, and the wildcat comes in with boatloads of e.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: BaldEagl on March 30, 2008, 06:24:27 PM
You have a good point.  The 109K-4 is a dominating aircraft.  The F4F-4 is not.

I always thought the K-4 was ENY 5... guess not huh?
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: TonyJoey on March 30, 2008, 06:41:48 PM
 
You are kidding right?
2 equal pilots and the K4 will utterly dominate the fight. He will choose the time to engage and will be able to disengage almost at will.
They are far from equal.

TY Bronk the point i've been trying to get through. :aok If the pilots are the same the 109 K-4 will absolutely dominate a f4f, which means the ENY should NOT be the same.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: TonyJoey on March 30, 2008, 07:52:09 PM
Oh and 1 more thing "Bronk"  :mad: (for killing me with your fm2)
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: evenhaim on March 30, 2008, 08:18:39 PM
Bronk the key word being a fight, not bnz to death. Id be glad to roll an f4f against you in a k4 then we can know first hand?

Cheers,
freez
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: TonyJoey on March 30, 2008, 08:36:49 PM
Still freez do you think that a F4f is equal to a K-4? This question has nothing to do with the pilot. If the pilots were the same, who would win a K-4 vs. F4f duel? And yes the K-4 could BnZ him to death if he earned the altitude advantage which is very easy to obtain.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: evenhaim on March 30, 2008, 08:40:04 PM
Still freez do you think that a F4f is equal to a K-4? This question has nothing to do with the pilot. If the pilots were the same, who would win a K-4 vs. F4f duel? And yes the K-4 could BnZ him to death if he earned the altitude advantage which is very easy to obtain.
no just saying it can go either way, if the k4 tries to turn with the f4f its gonna die, and the k4 controls the energy fight... in any case eny isn't calculated 100% on the aircrafts ability, it goes by usage levels IIRC, so saying one is better than the other is pointless.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: TonyJoey on March 30, 2008, 08:53:22 PM
no just saying it can go either way, if the k4 tries to turn with the f4f its gonna die, and the k4 controls the energy fight... in any case eny isn't calculated 100% on the aircrafts ability, it goes by usage levels IIRC, so saying one is better than the other is pointless.

Well yes the K-4 is better than the F4f, and MUCH, MUCH less people fly the F4f than the 109 K-4, which is another reason why people should get more perks for landing kills in it. And in other words it means that the F4f should have a higher ENY than the 109 K-4.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: Bronk on March 30, 2008, 09:45:17 PM
Bronk the key word being a fight, not bnz to death. Id be glad to roll an f4f against you in a k4 then we can know first hand?

Cheers,
freez
Try it with widewing and let me know how that goes.

Edit:
Scratch that. I'll tell you how it will go. He'll burn your E off then dance on your head till you can evade.

A fight is not just turn or BnZ it's the ability to switch to either.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: evenhaim on March 30, 2008, 09:48:33 PM
Try it with widewing and let me know how that goes.

Will do. :aok
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: Bronk on March 30, 2008, 09:51:15 PM
Oh and 1 more thing "Bronk"  :mad: (for killing me with your fm2)
~S~
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: TonyJoey on March 31, 2008, 02:54:10 PM
Ok let's stay on topic :furious. Who thinks that the f4f's ENY should go up to at least 25 if not higher.  Oh and S! to Bronk! :aok
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: Banshee7 on March 31, 2008, 03:56:05 PM
F4F eny = 25
Fm2 eny = 20
F6F eny = 15 (really should be 10)

Now that i read more in depth i do believe the F4F ENY should be raised.  Seeing that the FM2 was an improved version..shouldn't that make it a better aircraft?

109K4 eny = 15/10
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: TonyJoey on March 31, 2008, 06:41:35 PM
EXACTLY BANSHEE! :aok
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 31, 2008, 09:34:09 PM
Bronk the key word being a fight, not bnz to death. Id be glad to roll an f4f against you in a k4 then we can know first hand?

Cheers,
freez

Ouch...seems like someone's ego got a little tweaked somehow. 

But Bronk is correct, the K4 utterly dominates the F4F and can engage and disengage from the fight at will and there is nothing the Wildcat can do.  The only thing you can do is try and avoid the repeated slash attacks and hope to get off a snap shot on an over shoot but if the K4 driver is any good, he'll break after his slash attack to deny you the overshoot reversal shot.

A good similiar comparison is the Zeke and P-38. 


ack-ack
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: Bronk on April 01, 2008, 04:51:05 AM
Ouch...seems like someone's ego got a little tweaked somehow. 

But Bronk is correct, the K4 utterly dominates the F4F and can engage and disengage from the fight at will and there is nothing the Wildcat can do.  The only thing you can do is try and avoid the repeated slash attacks and hope to get off a snap shot on an over shoot but if the K4 driver is any good, he'll break after his slash attack to deny you the overshoot reversal shot.

A good similiar comparison is the Zeke and P-38. 


ack-ack

Aye and don't forget, while that 30mm hub is a pain to aim. Just one hit is enough to end the fight.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: TonyJoey on April 01, 2008, 03:04:45 PM
Which are all very good resons backing up my theory that the wild cat needs a higher ENY. :salute
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: Ghosth on April 02, 2008, 07:48:26 AM
I'd have to say the problem lies NOT in the ENY of the F4f, but rather where the 109K4 is rated.
I'd have no problem seeing that lowered to a more realistic setting.
Title: Re: The f4f ENY value
Post by: TonyJoey on April 02, 2008, 03:25:27 PM
Ghost thats a good point. :aok However I still believe that the f4f's ENY should drop to atleast 25. :salute