Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Devonai on March 31, 2008, 07:19:32 PM
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Last night during the Sunday Night Scramble I upped a Ki-84, not for the first time but for the first serious furball I've encountered in this bird.
I was extremely pleased with the climb rate, but I couldn't turn her well at all between 150-250 knots. In a fight with F4Us I didn't feel outgunned, but with the aircraft losing stability so quickly in a turn I definitely felt out-maneuvered.
Does anyone have any tips for me? Please keep in mind this is with the stall limiter off and I don't have this problem with my favorite rides (P-47D, Yak9).
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You need to use flaps frequently, but flaps deploy only at a very very low speed in the Ki-84 Frank.
On the plus side, it is very stable once flaps are deployed at speeds lower than most other planes can remain stable. It actually turns pretty well in sustained turns.
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it is probably the best climber maby only beten by the 38
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it is probably the best climber maby only beten by the 38
uhmm.. no.
Ki-84 has a better climbrate than the P-38 up to 7-8k.
But a lot of planes are much better climbers than both of them. For example up to 20k all 109's but the E4 beat the 38L, many of them even above that.
So does the 190D, Spit VIII, IX XIV, XVI, LA7 & LA5 up to 9k, C.205, Tempest (up to 15k)
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....So does the 190D, Spit VIII, IX XIV, XVI, LA7 & LA5 up to 9k, C.205, Tempest (up to 15k)........
Learn't that the hard way. :D The P38s definately aren't some uber climbers, better than any other american iron (except P39 maybe, those things seem way uber to me :t), but nowhere near as good as the eurobirds. :aok
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I've been playing with the ki 84 as my main ride this month. (272-27)
I'm competent in most allied rides except jugs and 38's. I already understood the strengths and weaknesses of the Frank but until you've flown it quite a bit you can't really appreciate what a wonderful plane it really is. I would compare it to a spit 16 but its tougher and has much nicer low speed handling. Quick changes of direction combined with a great rudder and flaps. long lasting fuel burn 50%-75% is all thats needed and burn the wing tanks 1st.
It's biggest downfall is flying fast. Parts start to stress easy, so you have to fly it with much more attention to speed. Just keep climbing, turning and rolling. As long as your opponent doesnt decide to just run away you should do just fine.
The ki-61 is also avery nice fighter plane but has to be flown with a little more care. It isn't as powerful as the frank but everything the 84 does badly regarding speed the 61 excels.
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The Ki84 shares with the P-38 a noted reduction in elevator control when using combat trim.
Don't use it with the Ki84. You can barely pull blackouts with it on, but can quite easily with it off. That alone tells you it's severely limiting your input capabilities.
Definitely an excellent plane. Takes some getting used to.
I've landed 7-kill sorties in it before, sniped running la7s at 800 yards with just my cowl guns (cutting a wing off too!), out-spiral-looped P-38s, etc, in it.
Too many folks run away in the MAs, so I've fallen out of flying the Ki because it can't chase. It's got a nice fast deck speed when level, but it can't dive worth a crap without losing all 5 flight surfaces at once. That's the only reason I don't fly it more.
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Last night during the Sunday Night Scramble I upped a Ki-84, not for the first time but for the first serious furball I've encountered in this bird.
I was extremely pleased with the climb rate, but I couldn't turn her well at all between 150-250 knots. In a fight with F4Us I didn't feel outgunned, but with the aircraft losing stability so quickly in a turn I definitely felt out-maneuvered.
Does anyone have any tips for me? Please keep in mind this is with the stall limiter off and I don't have this problem with my favorite rides (P-47D, Yak9).
i onl just flw this machinf\e for the first time against the AI offline...and was surprised how nimble she felt......if i can friggin get time to go into the MA's soon, i think i'll be trying her out.
<<S>>
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When in the KI-84 pull back on the throttle allot in a turn. It likes to glide through them more than be pulled through them. And don't be afraid to use the wep till its gone to get up to speed. It recharges pretty fast.
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it is probably the best climber maby only beten by the 38
wops zoom climb posability
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I haven't flown the 84 a lot but I've found every-time I'm on a downhill I have to reduce throttle almost to minimum to maintain good control. It's a very nice, very manouverable plane but it takes a lot of both throttle and flap work to get the most out of it so it keeps you pretty busy in a fight.
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wops zoom climb posability
In that case, you were wrong again. This time with attaching the "best zoom climber" tag to the Ki-84. It's far from that, actually. ;)
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A simple tip is a simple question. Are you flying it with Combat Trim?
If the answer is yes, then you are limiting yourself and this plane. The Ki-84 may be the plane in the entire inventory that benefits most from being flown using manual trim.
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Rolex: P38s share this problem with the Ki84. Also I've heard a comment on another plane, but can't recall which.... The 190 maybe?
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The 190s are fine on CT.... any trim adjustments needed are minimal. The 109 K4 needs manual trim badly to be used effectively at high speeds but at low speeds its very responsive and docile.
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The 190s are fine on CT.... any trim adjustments needed are minimal. The 109 K4 needs manual trim badly to be used effectively at high speeds but at low speeds its very responsive and docile.
I've found it useful two have my elevator trim manually set all the way to the top when flying the K, and then to switch combat trim on. That way when I get hard lockup at high speed, all I need to do is to toggle the combat trim off until the nose is pointed in the right direction. It works so well that I have to be very careful to avoid long-duration blackouts. (I have trim wheels, so not sure how this works with keyboard controls.)
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Thanks guys, I will try manual trim next time.
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Try to keep the fight moving up in the Ki84. Once you've gotten your enemy to follow you up and blow his E you should be slow and able to pop out the wonder flaps. Now all thats left is to simply whip your nose around while the enemy wallows and nail him.
Be easy on the trigger, those 20mms can spit out a lot of ammo fast. I find that I get most of my kills between 200 and 400 yards. The pea shooters aren't completely useless either, I've gotten 2 or 3 kills with them after going bingo on the cannon rounds.
Lately I've been taking 100% fuel most of the time. But if you want the best performance at the start of a fight perhaps consider taking 50% and dts.
The two bombs are nothing to scoff at either, plenty to kill a panzer or m4 with a well placed drop.
Last tip, at the higher speeds up until you hear the plane groaning the flight performance is very good. Feel free to lure high cons into a flat or rolling scissors for a nice overshoot snapshot. The 20mms will leave a hurting with only a few hits. I'd be happy to wing up with you if you see me online, I consider the Ki84 my best plane. (wish i could say this about the p38 but I'm just a gangtard magnet in that apparently)