Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: BGBMAW on April 01, 2008, 05:29:05 PM
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Hello Charon...and any other well informed persons
i was in a discussion yesterday with my mom, this is a many ..many year project. The evil Handgun....She says that crime has gone down in DC because of the ban..I look through stats..I see some drop but not any great degree...and I don't know how it corresponds with the Ban of Handguns...
Do you have a fairly simple lay out of violent crime/ with or with out firearms in DC?
She could only pick DC as an example.
She has been an Emergency Room Nurse for 30 years...so shes see's what we don't as far as horrible accidents and crime injuries go.
I was never allowed a BB gun or any firearm...My mom was a nurse and dad was a doctor...When I turned 18 I was living on my own..of course I bought a 10/22 and a mossberg 500 Bday...
One more thing..she says she would like all handguns banned...but would allow any rifle and shotguns...heheh she makes me smile
Thanks for any helpful info in advance
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You don't need statistics for this on. Your mother is always right. Case closed.
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touche....your right...I should just forget it
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And just in case you're not married and don't already know ... the same applies for wives.
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The only difference between a wife and a terrorist is that sometimes you can negotiate with a terrorist !!
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Find a chart of overall US violent crime over the years since the DC ban.
Compare this to a chart of DC crime over the years since the DC ban.
It will be obvious that the ban had essentially no effect, as crime was trending down nationwide. It should also be obvious that DC crime is much higher than the national average, ban or no ban. So banning guns did.... yep, you guessed it... nothing.
Why? Because the law-abiding citizens aren't the ones mis-using guns and the criminals (duh!) don't obey the laws.
That's the short, simple version.
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You need help arguing with your mom about guns?
Awesome.
:rofl :aok
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You need help arguing with your mom about guns?
Awesome.
:rofl :aok
When argueing about guns, the better armed tends to win.
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i had that argument the other day LOL, was writing a paper for my english class in college on gun control, and she's totally unrelenting that gun control is a good thing. liek i've said b4, archery FTW. i dont reli need a gun, even tho it never hurts in close quarters, a knife will suffice most of the time.
if its the wife or mother, jsut give up and walk away before u get up in a bunch.
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You don't hunt, so "needing" either a bow or a gun is immaterial in your case.
You practice archery for the fun of it, much like those that only shoot games like trap or skeet. Nothing wrong with that.
However, the idea that your bow or a knife is a substitute for a firearm in a personal defense situation is laughable. Sorry, that's just the truth of it.
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You don't hunt, so "needing" either a bow or a gun is immaterial in your case.
You practice archery for the fun of it, much like those that only shoot games like trap or skeet. Nothing wrong with that.
However, the idea that your bow or a knife is a substitute for a firearm in a personal defense situation is laughable. Sorry, that's just the truth of it.
i understand ur point, i know its a significant drop in performance, but its something.
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What you might want to remind your mother of is this one simple fact. In the late 80's, and early 90's Washington DC had the HIGHEST murder rate of any city in this country per 100,000 people. This was going on in a city that at that time had BANNED ALL handguns and all rifles and shotguns had be kept unloaded and locked up by law.
The simple truth of the matter is this. Criminals DO NOT care what laws are passed. They are criminals, they break the law. They will get guns anywhere they can and then use them against an unarmed victim because it's the path of least resistance for them.
Now take a look at the state of Florida. They also had very high violent crime rates in the 80's and early 90's. Then they decided to start issuing conceled carry permits to anyone who wanted one. They relaxed their gun laws and the average citizens started to arm themselves. More guns were on the streets and in the homes yet the violent crime rates decreased significantly in a few short years. During those years after they became a shall issue state, there was an increase in private citizens defending themselves against attacks, but they were not prosecuted for doing so. Now the criminals don't know who is armed or not. Crime has gone down because crooks being crooks, don't want to take on an armed person who just might shoot back, or shoot first.
A firearm, be it a handgun, rifle, or shotgun, in the hands of a law abiding citizen is no threat to anyone except the criminal that makes the mistake of trying to do something illegal to that law abiding citizens home, family, or person.
Personally I've pulled a gun twice on people. Both times MY property was being violated by criminals. My guns and I stopped them. No shots fired thankfully, but I kept my property and they went to jail and the police told me good job and to have a nice evening when they left.
My mom like yours worked in a hospital ER. My mom also worked in surgery, so I understand her point of view and the perspective she has regarding guns. My mom tends to feel the same way. However I think for her to say handguns are the reason for people being shot and if they were all gotten rid of is a bit nieve. Evil people will do evil things no matter what. The laws just don't apply to them until it's too late, and at that point how does a person justify to the victim that it was in their best interest to take away a tool that could have been used to protect themselves?
I'll never try and tell someone they have to own a gun, but there are alot of people out there that would love to take mine away, and the only reason they have for wanting to do so is fear of something that in my hands is alot less dangerous than the car they drive to work every day. It's irrational and without any logic. People that fear guns are for the most part completely ignorant when it comes to guns. Yet they would deny me my right to own something I am totaly comfortable having in my home or carrying on my person because they are afraid of it.
Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.
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It's a pretty simple thing to prove. Just show that in all major cities where gun control is the strongest crime is the highest. Then compare it to suburban and rural areas where there is practically no gun control, and show the lack of crime. Simple logic would lead you to conclude that gun control leads to higher crime.
Of course, asking a liberal to understand logic is quite like asking a monkey to understand calculus. It just ain't happening.
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Simple logic would lead you to conclude that gun control leads to higher crime.
Or maybe that high population density leads to higher crime?
For fun sometime check out Population Density and Social Pathology by John B. Calhoun
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Or maybe that high population density leads to higher crime?
For fun sometime check out Population Density and Social Pathology by John B. Calhoun
Or maybe it's the type of people in cities that cause a rise in crime. But it's easier to just say there is more crime in cities and gun control areas than it is to be called a racist.
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i had that argument the other day LOL, was writing a paper for my english class in college on gun control, and she's totally unrelenting that gun control is a good thing. liek i've said b4, archery FTW. i dont reli need a gun, even tho it never hurts in close quarters, a knife will suffice most of the time.
if its the wife or mother, jsut give up and walk away before u get up in a bunch.
I can't believe you're in an English class with that spelling and grammar. :rolleyes:
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You don't need statistics for this on. Your mother is always right. Case closed.
Sweet answer :) :aok
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Many good points raised. If she is fully emotionally invested it may be best just to ignore the issue in favor of family harmony. And if she is truly, religiously anti then logical arguments will not matter regardless. But, here are a few additions.
The CDC recently released a report showing that gun control has not been proven to work.
Working in the emergency room, you mother probably sees an skewed version of daily life. Add some perspective. How many of those gunshot victims were true victims and not criminals? Run the odds on being a victim of a firearm homicide. Even in the worst communities issues like diet, alcohol and smoking, etc. are far greater real life concerns. That, and the general level of nonlethal crime where the feral youth and gangbangers do what they wish to the weak and defenseless.
Also, How many DUI victims does she see by comparison? Does she equally support prohibition? How many stabbings, and other assaults? She should know there is evil in the world given her profession. Evil tends to prey on the weak or infirm or elderly and a handgun is about the only tool that can equalize that equation. The difference, perhaps, between her being on that table or the potential rapist.
BTW, here's another good one from Oleg Volk: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=352401
Handguns are simply the best weapons for home defense. I know the shotgun argument, but in reality, at very close quarters, a handgun doesn't catch on things and is harder for a home invader to grab and manipulate, can be easily fired from the hip if need be, etc.
I bet she sees a lot of addicts. Just how well do those drug bans work again?
And, as noted, statistically DC is not a gun control success story particularly if you plot it back to a period before the ban and consider national trends.
Charon
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Your answer isn't nearly as great as Myelo's, oh wise Charon.
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Your answer isn't nearly as great as Myelo's, oh wise Charon.
Your just saying that cause your a mother, and a wife lol
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LOL mom.
My Mom's always right too -- just ask her :)
Charon
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I can't believe you're in an English class with that spelling and grammar. :rolleyes:
what other reason would there be to be in an English class?
EvlPrsn is obviously in one, to learn spelling and grammar.
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Find a chart of overall US violent crime over the years since the DC ban.
Compare this to a chart of DC crime over the years since the DC ban.
It will be obvious that the ban had essentially no effect, as crime was trending down nationwide. It should also be obvious that DC crime is much higher than the national average, ban or no ban. So banning guns did.... yep, you guessed it... nothing.
Why? Because the law-abiding citizens aren't the ones mis-using guns and the criminals (duh!) don't obey the laws.
That's the short, simple version.
The saying is "They take our guns saying, 'only criminals have guns' but after they do it, it's the cold hard truth, only criminals will have guns'"
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what other reason would there be to be in an English class?
EvlPrsn is obviously in one, to learn spelling and grammar.
i do happen to be in one, but it has nothing to do with spelling or grammer. and i reli dont care about spelling or grammer online, the one place the almost no1 cares. except for grammer weenies liek u! :devil
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Some good answers here by all but I might add that DC is so violent and so criminal and dangerous that...
It had no where else to go no matter what laws were passed or not passed.. it had reached the saturation point for crime... it simply could not get any worse.. no city in America can get any worse.
There is only a finite number of crooks and violent felons that can operate in an area of a city with a normal police force and that limit is reached in DC. All crime prevention across the nation has improved and so has standard of living.. all across the nation crime has dropped.. less so in DC of course.
What needs to be said is that every modern effort to prevent crime has been tried in a gun free city like DC and they have failed compared to the rest of the country. they are staying at their saturation point..
Adding guns to the mix has not been tried. There is nothing to compare to. Adding guns will bring down the crime.. What type of loosening of the gun laws they adopt will determine how much crime drops.
lazs
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i do happen to be in one, but it has nothing to do with spelling or grammer. and i reli dont care about spelling or grammer online, the one place the almost no1 cares. except for grammer weenies liek u! :devil
perhaps EskimoJoe is correct then. my apologies to EskimoJoe.
from my deciphering of your comments EvlPrsn.
let me get this straight,
you are in an English class that has nothing to do with spelling and/or grammar?
what exactly is that class for?
what is our tax dollars paying for?
for some, effective communication is a lifelong struggle.
you would be surprised at the ideas that some have, like inventions, better ways of doing things, etc.
when someone intentionally uses ineffective communication, it does everyone an injustice.
it wastes people's time, but mostly it hurts the person trying to communicate.
it closes doors to better opportunities in life.
for your online grammar remark.
you better hope your future employers never knowingly see your online skills.
more and more, employers are going online to do background checks on employees. just a FYI.
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Dieaz,
In his case he thinks the poor grammar, spelling and punctuation make him look "cool" or in more popular vernacular, "l33t". He doesn't realize that his post is all that anyone online sees of him and that his choice of posting tends to skew folks reading him to the opinion that he is more likely a buffoon or at best immature. In any event it makes him eminently ignorable and destroys credibility in what he tries to state. His loss but at least he's "l33t" right.
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"reli"
*cringe*
That is awful.
L33tspeak gets no respect around here young man. At all.
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Or maybe it's the type of people in cities that cause a rise in crime.
Well the rats in the overcrowding test weren't really a "type" of rat. They were all just normal rats in a small population but as population density increased aberrant behavior increased significantly to the point of population reduction.
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you are in an English class that has nothing to do with spelling and/or grammar?
what exactly is that class for?
'For what is an English class?' Would be a more proper sentance structure.
Perhaps he is in England learning algebra. Then he would be in an English Algebra class.
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"Sir we only sell 6, 9 or 12 pieces. It's the Managements Policy against making Special orders so I can't sell you a half dozen or a dozen pieces. Geez now would you like to try and order again?"
:huh
Mac
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Dieaz,
In his case he thinks the poor grammar, spelling and punctuation make him look "cool" or in more popular vernacular, "l33t". He doesn't realize that his post is all that anyone online sees of him and that his choice of posting tends to skew folks reading him to the opinion that he is more likely a buffoon or at best immature. In any event it makes him eminently ignorable and destroys credibility in what he tries to state. His loss but at least he's "l33t" right.
It gets very annoying having to scroll past all his posts. We NEED an ignore feature for his type.
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Mac you must know a baker! :rofl
Strip(er)
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thank you guys for the help appreciate it.
Im getting married on June 21 on www.youngisland.com Im going to bring my print outs with me..I figure over coconut drinks we can discuss; )
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What is the point of gun bans in some pocket areas within the US?
And already, the DC is well armed anyway....
And how far does this gun control go? An honest person not allowed to own a firearm at all???
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Angus...its the Feell Good scum Hippies...
If it makes you feeeeeelll Good..its good....Dotn mess with your "logic" here
Luckily the hippes are starting to die...Now we just have to keep feeding drugs to the next generation of hippies
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thank you guys for the help appreciate it. Im getting married on June 21 on www.youngisland.com Im going to bring my print outs with me..I figure over coconut drinks we can discuss; )
Don't bring print outs of anything from this board on that trip to discuss. I'll be posting a "that will be an epic fail" picture shortly.
(and congrats, btw)