Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wingnutt on April 05, 2008, 12:16:36 AM
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it does seem a little.. OVER dominant..
its the fastest armored vehicle in the game.. well, perhaps the T34 is faster, not sure. In the hands of even a below average player, its a tough nut to crack unless you gang up on one.
couple that with the fact that its about the only thing you see on the ground anymore.. and it seems (to me anyway) a minor perk value would be justified.
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im surprised it already has not been perked, that things a freaken beast :rock :rock
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Fastest armored vehicle? It goes 25mph, same speed as the osti, panzer, tiger , M4, and both LVTs. Its over dominant because the osti is a pos now. A 500 or even 250lber is all you need.
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I haven't been playing much since the update but I dove onto a V base full of Wirbles tonight in my F6F. I didn't realize I had salvo set for 2 and when I dropped I got three without a ping. They didn't seem too tough to me.
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SERCH BUTTON
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d1.5 is the furthest I've been getting kills and thats when they get slow and climb or bank. I think it's fine and the osti is going to be fixed some time next week anyways.
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Jesus, not again.
The Ostwind is better.
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Stop vulching bases with the VH up and the wirblewind will not be a problem. :rolleyes:
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Even tho its Vanscrew I have to agree. One 38/47/51 can pork the VH and stop everything.
Tactics.....
Strip(er)
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you can turret a WW so easily it is laughable. THAT is the great equalizer. If you turret it, it won't shoot at you anymore. If you HO it when the gun works, you get what you deserve. I get killed in a WW often by players that have figured out how to beat them.
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A single burst from Zeke cannon (actually any cannon) and the WW driver is looking for a way out!
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I'm not (yet?) willing to cry "perk!".
But I would like to see a much lower ENY value. Currently Ostwind and Wirbelwind do have the same 25 value. Even if we do get the ability to rais ehead in Ostwind back, the Wirblewind will be still more effective in most combat situations. Even with proper lead and aim, a reasonable fast fighter can fly "between" individual Ostwind rounds when passing by.
But my main reason for a lower ENY value is the anti-town blitz base grab. Three or even just two Wirbles can take down a town at a breathtaking speed. In fact so quick, that often there is no time left for any coordinated defense effort. In the last days I have seen a rising number of squad sized rapid attacks like that. By the time the attacked side could muster a few pilots (someone had to spot flashing town, identifying the raid, people have to land first before hurrying to help ect...) it all was over.
So I could imagine a lower ENY rating like 15 or so, instead of 25.
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I'm not (yet?) willing to cry "perk!".
But I would like to see a much lower ENY value. Currently Ostwind and Wirbelwind do have the same 25 value. Even if we do get the ability to rais ehead in Ostwind back, the Wirblewind will be still more effective in most combat situations. Even with proper lead and aim, a reasonable fast fighter can fly "between" individual Ostwind rounds when passing by.
But my main reason for a lower ENY value is the anti-town blitz base grab. Three or even just two Wirbles can take down a town at a breathtaking speed. In fact so quick, that often there is no time left for any coordinated defense effort. In the last days I have seen a rising number of squad sized rapid attacks like that. By the time the attacked side could muster a few pilots (someone had to spot flashing town, identifying the raid, people have to land first before hurrying to help ect...) it all was over.
So I could imagine a lower ENY rating like 15 or so, instead of 25.
Perk? Nah. I will however concede to Lusche's concern about lowering it's ENY. It does seem reasonable.
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The WW turret is made out of papermache. Every plane that has flown near one that I have been in has popped the turret first pass. Even had a farmer spit at it and I started smoking. A pack of WW's is a problem...one is a target. One of those stinking SAPP pilots even tracked me with an empty tequila bottle.
:furious
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Iv disabled WWs with a jeep and you guys want it perked. Thats funny.
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Iv disabled WWs with a jeep and you guys want it perked. Thats funny.
ive killed a tiger with a jeep, guess it should be unperked.
:rolleyes:
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Dont perk them. THey are realy annoying, but it makes you better in the game. It helps people know how to kill them. For example:
There is a wirbelwind below you.
You get on 1 side, your friend gets on the other.
You both dive down.
Which ever one it shoots at pulls away
The other turrets it. :D
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ive killed a tiger with a jeep, guess it should be unperked.
:rolleyes:
No, youve got the kill with your jeep.
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The Wirblewind has broken endless vulching. Because of the Wirble, you need to bring bombs and lots of them to an enemy base, somewhat higher than tree-top level. This emphasis on dropping lots of high-explosives to the enemy and the now distasteful nature of flying below 6000 feet over disputed territory makes things a least a tad more realistic. It follows that intercepting bombers and jabos will actually make more of a difference than it did before. And an effective defense tool for the ground units against jabos will make them less sitting targets than they were before, making the ground war more viable. All this will, IMO, will help put the air war aspect of in the MA in the proper context and make it more realistic (Or less unrealistic, if you will.)
I admit the Wirbel will be inevitiably used for dweebery as well as good ends at times. But I've only personally seen a runway camped by enemy wirbels once, and at least they had to drive there to vulch, instead of flying. I'd say the good effects are more pronounced than the bad.
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the wirblewind is the ack runners best friend :aok
should wait and see what happens after HTC lightens the lethality of it
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the wirblewind is the ack runners best friend :aok
should wait and see what happens after HTC lightens the lethality of it
where you got the info ?
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Stop vulching bases? How will i pad my score. :uhoh
:noid
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where you got the info ?
HTC has said nothing about lowering the lethality of the wirbel.
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PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT PERK IT
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NONONONONONONONONONONONONONON ONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO NONONONONONONONONONONONONONON ONONONONONONONONONONONO!!
ADAPTADAPTADAPTADAPT OVERCOMEOVERCOMEOVERCOMEOVERC OME.
Hehe. Refer to my last post on this thread.
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ADAPTADAPTADAPTADAPT OVERCOMEOVERCOMEOVERCOMEOVERC OME.
Hehe. Refer to my last post on this thread.
Yes. May I offer up a hint?
BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT BOMB IT
An accurate divebomber can release his ordes and pull out well before he gets within most people's effective range. And wobblies cannot stop a flight of level bombers above 6000 feet at all.
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I see that people are still posting about the WW and state it should be "perked" What I don't see is the arguement "why" ??
It's not tough to disable
It's not faster than any other veh in the game
It has very limited range
It can't fly away from danger like an A/C can
So what exactly is the reason why people would want it perked??
Is it the multiple barrels?? Well if this is the case, how many cannons does a Tiffy have? or a N1kj? or a Mossie? or an F4U1c? Not to mention rockets and bombs?? I have been asking for this veh since 2001, I applaud HT for it's addition. While the Ostie is a good AA weapon it's limited to a single slower firing gun. There has always been multi-barreled A/C in the game, so why not Multi-barreled AA.
Yes, the M16 is quad mount, however it lacks reach and punch. You might as well be throwing spitwads at the enemy.
If HTC does decide to "perk" (even a little) the Wirbelwind, then they need to seriously consider "perking" all the other A/C that have multi-barrel 20mm guns.
my 2 cents
<S>
p.s. I still think the Flak88 would be a great addition to the game IMO
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Dumb to perk the WW. The only ones wanting it perked are those suffering to it's guns. Speaks volumes I'd say :)
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I see that people are still posting about the WW and state it should be "perked" What I don't see is the arguement "why" ??
It's not tough to disable
It's not faster than any other veh in the game
It has very limited range
It can't fly away from danger like an A/C can
So what exactly is the reason why people would want it perked??
Is it the multiple barrels?? Well if this is the case, how many cannons does a Tiffy have? or a N1kj? or a Mossie? or an F4U1c? Not to mention rockets and bombs?? I have been asking for this veh since 2001, I applaud HT for it's addition. While the Ostie is a good AA weapon it's limited to a single slower firing gun. There has always been multi-barreled A/C in the game, so why not Multi-barreled AA.
Yes, the M16 is quad mount, however it lacks reach and punch. You might as well be throwing spitwads at the enemy.
If HTC does decide to "perk" (even a little) the Wirbelwind, then they need to seriously consider "perking" all the other A/C that have multi-barrel 20mm guns.
my 2 cents
<S>
p.s. I still think the Flak88 would be a great addition to the game IMO
If they perks it they better put some supplies in it since you can take the turret out with less then five 50cals.
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Is it the multiple barrels?? Well if this is the case, how many cannons does a Tiffy have? or a N1kj? or a Mossie? or an F4U1c? Not to mention rockets and bombs?? I have been asking for this veh since 2001, I applaud HT for it's addition. While the Ostie is a good AA weapon it's limited to a single slower firing gun. There has always been multi-barreled A/C in the game, so why not Multi-barreled AA
But currently the Wirbelwind actually is overmodeled ;):
- The turret rotates almost 2x faster that in real life
- Our Wirbel can blaze away at highest ROF (all 4 barrels firing together) 'till his 3200 rounds are gone. A real Wirbel gunner would have to stop after 80 (!) shots to allow reloading (one reloader has to change 2 magazines each then). Continous firing would only be able with half ROF.
Besides that, only 320 rounds were stored in the turret itself. The rest was carried in the body.
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It's not tough to disable
It's not faster than any other veh in the game
It has very limited range
It can't fly away from danger like an A/C can
So what exactly is the reason why people would want it perked??
disabled != killed, he still can land or repair.
speed isnt significant advantage for GV, especially AA.
effective range same as osti if not better, unless you are very good with osti.
its not supposed to, its AA ofter all.
Main reason to perk WW is: it much more effective as AA than both osti or m16. WW score 90% all AA-gvs kills, means its not just overused but almost only AA vehicle in use.
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Use is a poor standard for perking anything.
The most used plane in the game is the P-51D. Good, but far from the best.
If they ever fix the Osti views, and if players have a lick of sense, there will be a return to the Osti. The WW is helpless to stop any non NOE buff formation before it releases its eggs. The Osti at least stands a gambler's chance.
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Use is a poor standard for perking anything.
The most used plane in the game is the P-51D. Good, but far from the best.
Bad example. P-51D have 7%, next 2 or 3 planes - 6%. Look at F4U-1C or Firefly better.
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Main reason to perk WW is: it much more effective as AA than both osti or m16. WW score 90% all AA-gvs kills, means its not just overused but almost only AA vehicle in use.
Its more effective at short range. The osti can kill from out of icon range while the range of the WW is just over 1.7k. Try a sortie or two in the new osti and you'll see WHY no one is driving it. Another reason why the WW is being "overused" is because it was put in the game, oh, two weeks ago.
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Its more effective at short range. The osti can kill from out of icon range while the range of the WW is just over 1.7k.
Can. But nobody exept very few ppl will.
Try a sortie or two in the new osti and you'll see WHY no one is driving it. Another reason why the WW is being "overused" is because it was put in the game, oh, two weeks ago.
Wonder why P-39 havnt 90% of kills :rolleyes:
Stop lie to yourself.
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Can. But nobody exept very few ppl will.
Wonder why P-39 havnt 90% of kills :rolleyes:
Stop lie to yourself.
Few people. :rofl
Um lets see why the P39 hasent got 90% of the kills. Oh thats right because there are more then TWO other fighers. Stop trying to vulch a field and you wont get killed by one. Like I said roll an osti and see why everyone is driving the WW instead.
The wirbel is the olny good AA tank we have. Why not look at the stats for the last few months, huh?
March
3,468.......M16
18,930.....Osti
27,040.....Wirbel
February
6,476.......M16
38,210.....Osti
January
5,848.......M16
33,759.....Osti
Maybe when the osti is fixed we will see more kills, but the wirbel is the best thing to kill fighters in now. People are going to just have to fly smart now or end up in the tower.
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Few people. :rofl
And how many of these osti's kill was "out of icon range"? Especially fighters kills.
Try to read my previous post again.
March
3,468.......M16
18,930.....Osti
27,040.....Wirbel
February
6,476.......M16
38,210.....Osti
January
5,848.......M16
33,759.....Osti
And what i supposed to see here? btw, ~17000 osties kills in march was scored before WW released.
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Look at all those osti kills. I wonder why people havent been whining about perking it. Thing is that the osti isnt the best AA tank anymore. If you think the WW needs to be perked then you need to stop trying to vulch fields with a VH up.
Just because you arent any good in an osti doesnt mean that others can kill you befor you have a shot. With a wirbel if you cant get a bomb off out of its range you need TA time. So oleg cry all you want because theres a real good chance its not ganna happen.
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Look at all those osti kills. I wonder why people havent been whining about perking it.
Because it have significant disadvantade - hard to hit with 37 cannon. This is quite obviously cause it cannt stop vulching usually.
If you think the WW needs to be perked then you need to stop trying to vulch fields with a VH up.
Next time you want to say something stupid, try http://www.hitechcreations.com/frameset1.html?/scores/mainscores.html it not so hard.
So oleg cry all you want because theres a real good chance its not ganna happen.
Your cries arent any better, and whatever HTC will decide they hardly will ask you or me.
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Because it have significant disadvantade - hard to hit with 37 cannon. This is quite obviously cause it cannt stop vulching usually.
Next time you want to say something stupid, try http://www.hitechcreations.com/frameset1.html?/scores/mainscores.html it not so hard.
Your cries arent any better, and whatever HTC will decide they hardly will ask you or me.
An old osti can stop a vulch just as easy.
Try the score page?
Stop crying about it and bring a bomb next time.
My cries? I dont think so. I have no problem killing a wirbel and the only time I die to one is when I try to HO one.
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My cries? I dont think so.
Sure you do.
Osti will get old view back (see future patch notes), so if it was so effective as you claim you dont need free WW to stop vulchers. btw, I dont expect any significant changes in kills percents after new patch.
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Once the osti gets its views back I'll be back in that over the WW.
I'm rubbish in the WW.
The WW is no threat to those who aren't actively trying to attack one.
IF you fly smart they won't touch you. If you get lazy.. you're dead. That's all there is to it.
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Does anyone REALLY want the WW so people will use the Osti more? I doubt it.
I think people want it perked because it forces the air war up into the actual sky instead of between the trees (if you want to live), gives GV convoys a slim chance to survive air attack, eliminates the silly idea of simply flying around low strafing GVs instead of bombing them, keeps the runways open and at least lets the defending planes get gear-up, giving base defenders a chance when a full DAR suddenly appears in the sector. (Has probably greatly reduced the effectivness of NOE base-grabbing, which was always over-used.)
I will repeat: The WW has no defense against level bombers with even a smidgeon of altitude, the Osti is only a little better in this regard. An accurate dive-bomber generally kills either without giving them a shot. The VH has no defense against bombing either. A vehicle/VH must depend on interceptor aircraft to kill/drive off these threats, which certainly help puts things in a more realistic context and should encourage mutual support.
Because of the WW, when you strafe things on the ground, the ground may strafe you back. Some people think this is bad, I think it is fair.
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Does anyone REALLY want the WW so people will use the Osti more? I doubt it.
Yes, I want exactly that. The irony of it is that WWs + Osties mix will work better against vulchers/attackers. Looks like most of "dont perk WW" crowd fail to realise it. :lol
Perking WW will not weaken AA defence whatever somebody say (unless cost will too high).
I will repeat: The WW has no defense against level bombers with even a smidgeon of altitude, the Osti is only a little better in this regard. An accurate dive-bomber generally kills either without giving them a shot. The VH has no defense against bombing either. A vehicle/VH must depend on interceptor aircraft to kill/drive off these threats, which certainly help puts things in a more realistic context and should encourage mutual support.
Replace WW with Tiger or M4 and all your arguments still valid.
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But currently the Wirbelwind actually is overmodeled ;):
- The turret rotates almost 2x faster that in real life
- Our Wirbel can blaze away at highest ROF (all 4 barrels firing together) 'till his 3200 rounds are gone. A real Wirbel gunner would have to stop after 80 (!) shots to allow reloading (one reloader has to change 2 magazines each then). Continous firing would only be able with half ROF.
Besides that, only 320 rounds were stored in the turret itself. The rest was carried in the body.
Good points, I'll agree
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Does anyone REALLY want the WW so people will use the Osti more? I doubt it.
I think people want it perked because it forces the air war up into the actual sky instead of between the trees (if you want to live), gives GV convoys a slim chance to survive air attack, eliminates the silly idea of simply flying around low strafing GVs instead of bombing them, keeps the runways open and at least lets the defending planes get gear-up, giving base defenders a chance when a full DAR suddenly appears in the sector. (Has probably greatly reduced the effectivness of NOE base-grabbing, which was always over-used.)
I will repeat: The WW has no defense against level bombers with even a smidgeon of altitude, the Osti is only a little better in this regard. An accurate dive-bomber generally kills either without giving them a shot. The VH has no defense against bombing either. A vehicle/VH must depend on interceptor aircraft to kill/drive off these threats, which certainly help puts things in a more realistic context and should encourage mutual support.
Because of the WW, when you strafe things on the ground, the ground may strafe you back. Some people think this is bad, I think it is fair.
Aahhh, someone understands ;)
<S>