Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Lusche on April 08, 2008, 09:08:40 AM
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First, I do not think a perk price is justified. Fighting vs a single Wirbel only needs a change of player tactics. It's too vulnerable to justify any perking. Sure it will be the most used AA vehicle by a big margin, but that alone isn't enough - Due to that logic, Ostwind would had to be perked long ago when almost no one upped a M16.
However, it is much more capable vs fighters and enemy towns, so having the same 25 ENY as the Ostwind is just not right
Actually, I think the biggest impact on gameplay is currently still going onder the radar of most players. It's (as I already pointed) out its efficency as a very efficient horde tool vs enemy towns. I did a few tests and computations:
The Wirbelwind is 3 times more powerful vs towns than the Ostwind!
A Ostwind does the equivalent to 39lbs of ordonance vs structures per second (2.5 rounds à 15.6lbs)
A Wirbelwind does the equivalent of 120lbs per second! (30 rounds à 4lbs)
Where 2 Ostwinds would in theory need 3.89 mins to take down all 56 buildings of a town, two Wirbelwinds can do the same in 1.29mins.
(Practical numbers are somewhat higher in both cases, but the ratio is still the same)
A few squads (the usual suspects of course ;)) have already noted this and started to do some very quick gv rushes on enemy bases. When a town is far away enough from the airfield so that the base alarm doesn't go off, it's often impossible to spot & stop these sneak attacks before it's over. In fact, they are much more effective than those so dreaded NOE basegrab missions.
Therefore, it is my opinion and humble wish, that due to it's better overall performance, the WW ENY value is lowered to 15. When numbers get unbalanced, it should fall under the same restrictions as Typhoons, 110G's, N1Ks or 190Ds
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(Of course HTC could just adjust ROF restrictions or turret rotation speed in accordance to real life numbers and leave ENY at 25 ;))
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did you calculate how many buildings you can get with a single WW ?
I know 2 ostwinds can take a town down, how many WW would you need ?
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did you calculate how many buildings you can get with a single WW ?
I know 2 ostwinds can take a town down, how many WW would you need ?
2 Wirbels are enough too.
(OW ammo loadout is good for 50 buildings, WW for 41)
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This will obviously get done... It was probably best for HTC to just pick a ballpark ENY and adjust it after hard usage data comes in.
In the mean time, it's good to farm perks with easy kills with the present ENY...
^
More incentive for HTC to fix it :P
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2 Wirbels are enough too.
(OW ammo loadout is good for 50 buildings, WW for 41)
One OW can take out a whole town. One thing i don't like with the new OW is the gun depression is less. So if you come up to an ack gun the turret will not allow you to depress low enough to shoot the ack. The WW on the other hand is vulnerable to town ack more then the OW is. I agree tho lower the WW ENY to 10 or so, I don't think it really deserves a perk only because the turret can be shot out easily, and the effective range it about 1 to 1.5K.
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In the mean time, it's good to farm perks with easy kills with the present ENY...
Last tour I lost 16 Tigers, yet I had a net increase in GV perks by several hundred points. Thank you Wirbelwind! :D
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I haven't tested whether the WW can kill a fresh town on its own. I assumed it wouldn't be able too I guess thats wrong according vansie boi. He would know hes married to the milking maid.
If it can lower the ENY foshore.
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I support the ENY change for the Wirby, but not because of it's town killing ability. It simply is just a better AA platform than the Ostwind. However please do not change it's ENY until the Ostie's views have been fixed. I would use both interchangeably but the Ostwind is frustrating as heck right now.
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I haven't tested whether the WW can kill a fresh town on its own.
I took down between 75%-80% of a town in a WW.
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Maybe buildings need to be harder against anti-aircraft sized MG and cannon fire?
Make it to where you practically have to bring bombs or tank-type artillery to take down a town, that might correct any dweebishness of a horde of WWs roaming to an enemy town by themselves.
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To early to call for a lower ENY. I say give it at least 3 or 4 months, at least until the "new GV" luster shines off of it. Thing is tho a lower eny might not help much. Almost all of us have 3 times more GV perks then we'll need in this lifetime and will a lower ENY cause guys to adjust their tactics regarding Whirbels? Will it cause them to carry ords and take the time to attack them properly?
My guess is no. It wont affect anything. However I might support a lower ENY after it all plays out for awhiles out of fairness.
BTW one tank would put a big dent into a Whirbel attack.
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BTW one tank would put a big dent into a Whirbel attack.
The first night I ran into a WW I was in a Sherman. He tracked me between getting off my first and second rounds. Fortunatly, I killed him with my second round and the only friendly around (flying overhead) asked if I wanted him to land and up a Goon to bring me some supplys.
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2cm Flakvierling 38
Rate of fire 1,800 RPM (Cyclic)
800 RPM (Practical)
Feed system: 4x 20 round box magazines
i propose that this is implemented instead of the endless belt of ammo, or at least have the guns overheat
for example, after u fire 20 rounds from each gun, the fire will pause for 1/2-1 sec for reloading.
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How would you do that though? There are plenty of guns in game that need to be reloaded, like the MG17's on the Ju88, and the MG34 pintle guns on German tanks.
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Of course you realize, that would mean we need over-heating guns on planes also.
And over-heating/detonation with engines on planes. And the ability to run out of water-methanol on engines that use it. And run out of nitrous on the Ta-152.
And flaps that get torn off when you overspeed, and...you get the picture here.
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How would you do that though? There are plenty of guns in game that need to be reloaded, like the MG17's on the Ju88, and the MG34 pintle guns on German tanks.
Ummm.. So do it to all of them. :rolleyes:
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Ummm.. So do it to all of them. :rolleyes:
Personally Im paying to shoot and kill things. Not to wait for cartoon load times.
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Personally Im paying to shoot and kill things. Not to wait for cartoon load times.
Really, then I want insta reload for my tiger, shermy, panzer IV, T-34, M8, B-25h main gun and heavy guns on ships/shore bats.
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Really, then I want insta reload for my tiger, shermy, panzer IV, T-34, M8, B-25h main gun and heavy guns on ships/shore bats.
You can instantly change ammo type instead.
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You can instantly change ammo type instead.
Yea cus HE is sooooo effective against tigers. :rolleyes:
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Personally Im paying to shoot and kill things. Not to wait for cartoon load times.
This is a WWII flight combat simulator... so your paying for the wrong thing... Give Battlefield 1942 a shot! :aok
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First, I do not think a perk price is justified. Fighting vs a single Wirbel only needs a change of player tactics. It's too vulnerable to justify any perking. Sure it will be the most used AA vehicle by a big margin, but that alone isn't enough - Due to that logic, Ostwind would had to be perked long ago when almost no one upped a M16.
However, it is much more capable vs fighters and enemy towns, so having the same 25 ENY as the Ostwind is just not right
Actually, I think the biggest impact on gameplay is currently still going onder the radar of most players. It's (as I already pointed) out its efficency as a very efficient horde tool vs enemy towns. I did a few tests and computations:
The Wirbelwind is 3 times more powerful vs towns than the Ostwind!
A Ostwind does the equivalent to 39lbs of ordonance vs structures per second (2.5 rounds à 15.6lbs)
A Wirbelwind does the equivalent of 120lbs per second! (30 rounds à 4lbs)
Where 2 Ostwinds would in theory need 3.89 mins to take down all 56 buildings of a town, two Wirbelwinds can do the same in 1.29mins.
(Practical numbers are somewhat higher in both cases, but the ratio is still the same)
A few squads (the usual suspects of course ;)) have already noted this and started to do some very quick gv rushes on enemy bases. When a town is far away enough from the airfield so that the base alarm doesn't go off, it's often impossible to spot & stop these sneak attacks before it's over. In fact, they are much more effective than those so dreaded NOE basegrab missions.
Therefore, it is my opinion and humble wish, that due to it's better overall performance, the WW ENY value is lowered to 15. When numbers get unbalanced, it should fall under the same restrictions as Typhoons, 110G's, N1Ks or 190Ds
------
(Of course HTC could just adjust ROF restrictions or turret rotation speed in accordance to real life numbers and leave ENY at 25 ;))
I agree with most of what you said here. However, regarding people not noticing that only a town is flashing, I would dispute you about that. Good players pay attention to such details. So if you are up against any sort of decent opposition, it is definitely going to be noticed, and not overlooked as you imply. And since Wirbelwinds only go 25mph, there is still plenty of time to up defense to intercept them before they reach the town.
So even though I am a LTAR, I would say that a well run NOE base grab using bombers for the town is still the fastest way to take down a town and capture a base, from a practical standpoint. Pulling that off takes real organization and teamwork, though. Three decent buff pilots can down a town in a single pass. All the fighters in the mission can then intercept any uppers from the field and act as a buffer, while the troops are brought in.
The turret rotation speed on the Wirbel is better than what the Osti has, and probably not realistic. However, I cannot support any negative changes to the Wirbelwind, as doing that would be heresy for any LTAR to do.
And I do not wish to be excommunicated. :D :D
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I got 14 GV perks for 3 planes kills in the WW. So put me down as one who thinks the ENY ought to be lowered. I love the WW for forcing the air war up into the AIR, not NOE or right over the runway, but I don't think manning a WW ought to be a super-easy way to buy time in a Tiger or Sherman.
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Yea cus HE is sooooo effective against tigers. :rolleyes:
Exactly.
So if you shooting at M3 with HEs and see tiger, you can instantly change to AP instead of:
1) choose AP round
2) shot previously loaded HE somewhere
3) wait until AP round loaded
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Exactly.
So if you shooting at M3 with HEs and see tiger, you can instantly change to AP instead of:
1) choose AP round
2) shot previously loaded HE somewhere
3) wait until AP round loaded
Most tankers actually remove the HE round and just put in a Sabot. Skips the firing step... Plus it makes more sense... :P
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This is a WWII flight combat simulator... so your paying for the wrong thing... Give Battlefield 1942 a shot! :aok
At some point in time you may have been correct, but by adding new GV's and reworking old GV's Hitech has shown it's interest in making this a complete WWII simulation both in the air and on the ground. AH homepage -"Welcome to the internet's premiere combat experience!" Flight only? Nah.
Oink
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I was reading this and had to laugh!!!
Its said that the WW was replaced by the OW because of better gun balistics against aircraft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirbelwind