Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Mister Fork on April 08, 2008, 12:48:02 PM
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The AvA Development group is proud to announce:
Battle of Aces
It was compiled by taking the ideas of all members of the dev group and the AvA staff into a coordinated war effort that balances game play and differentiates what we want the AvA to be.
How the Battle is Conducted:
1. The War is announced and scheduled for a three round event. Each round lasts one week.
a. Two week prior, Commanders are appointed with at least two XO's.
b. Players can sign up for each side and get added to the respective forums.
c. Each side is also informed of the war map for planning purposes.
2. Strategic objects broken down on each side and given a % value.
a. Commanders are then informed of their own value and the value of their opponents objects.
b. Each side is recommended to plan their strategy and give it to the squadrons to deploy their own tactics.
3. Each side is given $1,200,000 to spend.
a. The spreadsheet is used to pick their weapons to begin the war with field placements (one field per pick).
b. The spreadsheet is submitted to the respective AvA staff member NLT Wednesday prior to the war starting for upload the next day (Thursday/Friday).
3. At the end of every week (Thursday), a tally of strategic % is done.
a. Both sides start off with $1.2 million + any unspent funds from the previous round.
b. At 100%, Commanders can maintain existing setup or make changes as long as it doesn't exceed their budget.
c. Anything less, Commanders re-do the setup to their current budget amount.
d. If both sides have reduced strategic objects, both sides loose money.
e. Commanders must submit their spreadsheets NLT 5pm on Friday for changes.
f. All strategic objects are reset and the war begins again.
g. A winner of the week is announced based on the % of strategic objects damaged.
4. The following arena settings are set:
* Field capture is turned off.
* AAA is set to .333 (bases are not capturable, and you can't hide in your AAA).
* Object hardness for strategic objects are set to downtimes of 3 days (4320 minutes) with a hardness of a 500lb bomb each (0.500).
* Downtimes for ALL objects are AvA norms - 60 minutes (yep- 60 minutes is the norm).
* Environmentals may change - wind, clouds, grey skies week to week, day to day.
* Fuel burn is set to historical levels
* Morning is 8am and Evening ends at 4pm.
5. Commanders are responsible for ensuring their budget sheets are submitted on time. It can also be delegated to an XO.
6. The winner is announced at the end of week 3 based on the best 2 of 3 rounds.
7. Campaign ribbons are awarded to all players (based on forum access) and winning side medals are awarded. A new squad-based award is to be handed out as well based on their performance during the war and from any recommendation from a CO or XO.
8. Every once in a while, Commanders can run special missions with announced targets. AvA support staff may enable special features for this effort with bonuses for both sides on a successful mission.
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looks good when does it start
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looks good when does it start
Historical burn rate was 1 gallon burned = 1 gallon burned. Does that mean a burn rate of 1?
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Good question, Puck ... bearing in mind that the maps, however, aren't 1:1 scale to the best of my knowledge. History may also dictate that ranges and fuelburn reflect that.
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Ah. So burn rates aren't historical, they're contrived to approximate historical ranges on the maps available...got it
:devil
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Sounds great! Looking forward to trying out the new action!
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Looks GREAT!
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But it will be Axis against Allies, right?? We are not going to mix up planes like in MA.
MUNGADAI of th MUNGADAI WARRIORS
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But it will be Axis against Allies, right?? We are not going to mix up planes like in MA.
MUNGADAI of th MUNGADAI WARRIORS
AvA :D
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g. A winner of the week is announced based on the % of strategic objects damaged.
I don't know the details so my question may be invalid, but what stops this from turning into a LancSpamFest?
I don't necessarily need an answer. I just want to know that this was considered.
Otherwise, sounds interesting.
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I don't know the details so my question may be invalid, but what stops this from turning into a LancSpamFest?
There are no invalid questions.
Nothing but 190s and 109s and aspiring Luftwaffe legends who appreciate a target rich enviroment.
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I think I will enjoy this setup much more. No more ack hugging!!! yay!
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which bomb sight will be used.
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Sounds interesting. I wonder if there is any possibility of AvA becoming a testing ground for bomber AI missions to strategic targets etc. That would make sure that even with low numbers there would be something for people to shoot at and bring people in.
On another note is the inbalance of heavy bombers going to be addressed in any way? It will be a lot easier for the RAF and USAAF to destroy strat than the LW or Japan.
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Sounds interesting. I wonder if there is any possibility of AvA becoming a testing ground for bomber AI missions to strategic targets etc. That would make sure that even with low numbers there would be something for people to shoot at and bring people in.
On another note is the inbalance of heavy bombers going to be addressed in any way? It will be a lot easier for the RAF and USAAF to destroy strat than the LW or Japan.
JU88s carry a heavier bombload than B17s. Check them out. :)
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While I was investigating and building the list of equipment prices - I uncovered a huge historical element in the manufacturing of war machines during WWII. I've included historical values for most German and American equipment when I could find the data (big thanks to those who helped out) .
German manufacturing prior to WWII starting was very efficient. For example, the price of a B-17 is $147,000 but a Ju-88 is $43,000. From what I've read, Germany was able to ramp up it manufacturing a lot cheaper before and during the war due to their process and manufacturing controls. Allied manufacturing companies incorporated a lot of the German manufacturing efficiencies into their own mid-late war. Which explains why a P-51D was made for only $50k in 1944 - which is based on the Bf109 design and manufacturing process. Not to mention the more you something, the better you get at it. Combined it helped reduce our costs - but the Germans were already good at it for years back to the days of the Spanish Civil war when they were already mass producing bombers, fighters, and tanks. So, Germany had a 3-4 year headstart.
When get got them we had German engineers that migrated to the Allied countries work with us in the war departments in the Canada, UK, and the USA ...especially with the Manhattan project, to help improve our manufacturing processes. :D
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Hum, hum...
For $50k, does it includes A/C and Power Steering? And what is the colour range? Is it coordinated with the upholstery? :lol
Gentlemen from AvA Staff, :aok Congrats! Another excellent improvement! I'm eager to join this one!
Thank you all and a big :salute
P.S.: could anyone spare $500? Need to fill it up to return to base...
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lol fork, i should have really put two and two together with the price thread in the aircraft forum.
I know the ju88 has a marginally larger bomb load but facing 12 .50cals is an experience rather unique in comparison to a handful of 7.7mm. I know which one i would prefer to be facing Arlo. :) The only thing with a poorer armament is the boston and once the 109f and 190 arrived this week it's days were numbered. I can't recall how many bostons i saddled up and shotdown at 200yds this week. :D
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lol fork, i should have really put two and two together with the price thread in the aircraft forum.
I know the ju88 has a marginally larger bomb load but facing 12 .50cals is an experience rather unique in comparison to a handful of 7.7mm. I know which one i would prefer to be facing Arlo. :) The only thing with a poorer armament is the boston and once the 109f and 190 arrived this week it's days were numbered. I can't recall how many bostons i saddled up and shotdown at 200yds this week. :D
Just means you need to bring escorts.
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I dunno ... I seem to be a regular magnet for PW when it comes to facing German armament of any size and any ammo capacity (or remaining). :D
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Good idea guys, sounds like fun to me. Hope everyone enjoys and constructive posts are made. Keep up the new ideas and good work! :salute
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:aok Sounds like it should be interesting in the least.
Who/How are CO/XO picked for each side?
Which Theater of Operation will be selected, and by whom? (from what I see so far, everyone's looking at another BoB-LW-v-UK fight)
With the budget at $1.2 million, won't that limit the number of available vehicles to use, thus limiting the number of players using them?
:salute On a well thought out and, presented operation.
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this will never work. there isn't an allied player who can survive without ack so allied plan B will be massive massive hordes way up in the double akakosphere and never coming down à la 325th checkertails or the 800 run to ack squadron all of which have morphed into current AvA allied ackhugger squads.
sorry AvA staff BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ wrong answer please play again later.
looks like I'll be in the MA for some time yet. I just hope you fellows get through this phase you are going through.
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looks like I'll be in the MA for some time yet.
Do you need directions to that forum to whine in? :D
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This whole "war" thing is getting old fast. We need a few weeks of the old AvA.
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i believe war is the whole point to the AVA. lets atleast give it a try and see what happens.
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I'm stoked about ramping up a new chapter of AvA war! Looks to be intresting!
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I agree with Jaeger, let's see where it leads. There is no way that a solution will satisfy everyone but there has to be a starting point. Let's start here and give them some useful feedback instead of the usual whining, crying, and trolling so they can continue to improve the AvA :aok
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I agree with Jaeger, let's see where it leads. There is no way that a solution will satisfy everyone but there has to be a starting point. Let's start here and give them some useful feedback instead of the usual whining, crying, and trolling so they can continue to improve the AvA :aok
That the thing. We have tryed the "war" for about three months. In those three months it has been non stop vulching/ganging/picking/milking. Useful feedback or kiss bellybutton feedback? Because when some one says they dont like how it is now they are whining, crying, or trolling, but if they say they love it they are giving feedback.
You want to "improve" the AvA? Improve the numbers or the quality of game play? The "war AvA" is just a limited planeset MA. Thats why all these MA types love it. We need to have a month of old AvA. No base captures or "goals" with old settings. Make it so if you want to have some great fights you head to the AvA. If you want to fly with the horde and milk base after base then the MA is the place to be.
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That the thing. We have tryed the "war" for about three months. In those three months it has been non stop vulching/ganging/picking/milking. Useful feedback or kiss bellybutton feedback? Because when some one says they dont like how it is now they are whining, crying, or trolling, but if they say they love it they are giving feedback.
You want to "improve" the AvA? Improve the numbers or the quality of game play? The "war AvA" is just a limited planeset MA. Thats why all these MA types love it. We need to have a month of old AvA. No base captures or "goals" with old settings. Make it so if you want to have some great fights you head to the AvA. If you want to fly with the horde and milk base after base then the MA is the place to be.
You just don't get it, TK. You never did. And you weren't the answer to the vulch/gang/pick/milk on either side you led the charge to base capture. :)
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One thing to remember about fuel burn rates is that horizontal distance might be scaled on a map, but altitude is not.
For example, a 1:3 scale map with a fuel burn rate of 3x will leave everyone gasping for fuel because 10k ft still equals 10k ft.
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We need to have a month of old AvA. No base captures or "goals" with old settings. Make it so if you want to have some great fights you head to the AvA. If you want to fly with the horde and milk base after base then the MA is the place to be.
Simply go to the Dueling arena if you don't like it.
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See that stupid crap can go both ways tango.
"If you want base capture go to the MA"
"If you want to fly historical missions with goals and lots of ganging go to the FSO."
The DA is a mini MA now to. You cant go five minutes with out some idiot rolling a me163 and shot you down while you are "dueling".
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I have only one small problem...
As a staring player, I do get shot down a lot...
Which means, the more I go up, the more I will cost for my side (let it be allied or axis)...
Which means, teammates won't be happy to see me go up...
Which means, keep away from the AvA...
Which means, no more access for me (or any other starting player for that mather) in my favourite arena...
This is why I started playing... reliving the historic battles
Base capturing in MA's is less fun (for me)
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I have only one small problem...
As a staring player, I do get shot down a lot...
Which means, the more I go up, the more I will cost for my side (let it be allied or axis)...
Which means, teammates won't be happy to see me go up...
Which means, keep away from the AvA...
Which means, no more access for me (or any other starting player for that mather) in my favourite arena...
This is why I started playing... reliving the historic battles
Base capturing in MA's is less fun (for me)
Huh? Fork's presentation didn't include the attrition I originally suggested, nor does it cover development in greater detail (and I suppose kudos on the practicality of the first though I'd like to see some more discussion on the latter). He's focusing primarily on "attrition" through negative impact on enemy production .... not attrition through K/D stats right now - whether as a group or as an individual affecting the group. You can auger every flight ten feet past the runway but your fellow pilots' bombs hitting or missing enemy strategic targets is what's really driving success or failure for your side, as is the enemy doing the same in return determines theirs. And besides the strat destruction tally to determine score there's the factor of reduction of funds determining which side enjoys what (or how many) new toys the following week* (and I suppose that also is a simplified simulation of development, if you think about it - wrapped in one neat package for now). There's genius in that approach and I defer to Fork's better judgement.
*Models available at bases and ports.
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Huh? Fork's presentation didn't include the attrition I originally suggested, nor does it cover development in greater detail (and I suppose kudos on the practicality of the first though I'd like to see some more discussion on the latter). He's focusing primarily on "attrition" through negative impact on enemy production .... not attrition through K/D stats right now - whether as a group or as an individual affecting the group. You can auger every flight ten feet past the runway but your fellow pilots' bombs hitting or missing enemy strategic targets is what's really driving success or failure for your side, as is the enemy doing the same in return determines theirs. And besides the strat destruction tally to determine score there's the factor of reduction of funds determining which side enjoys what (or how many) new toys the following week* (and I suppose that also is a simplified simulation of development, if you think about it - wrapped in one neat package for now). There's genius in that approach and I defer to Fork's better judgement.
*Models available at bases and ports.
Sorry than, my mistake, I tought that every single plane that was used, shot down or damaged, had to be renewed with the 1.2 million $ to spend...
Misunderstood, my sincere apologies :pray
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See that stupid crap can go both ways tango.
"If you want base capture go to the MA"
"If you want to fly historical missions with goals and lots of ganging go to the FSO."
The DA is a mini MA now to. You cant go five minutes with out some idiot rolling a me163 and shot you down while you are "dueling".
Not quite, the MAs, DAs and AvA are 24/7 operations, the FSO isn't. If you're not in the right time zone, the FSO is out of the picture.
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I also need to clarify a couple of items.
First - the $1.2 million represents the total purchase of aircraft squadron per field. We may up that number depending on how the first BoA works out. You could pick 6 B-24's and put them right at the front of the battleline on the map. Of course, your opponent could just hit your bomber hangers at 6 of those fields. Since we're looking at extending the downtimes of hangars to 1 day, and strategic objects 3 days, you may have no abilty to a) resupply your fields and b) defend your fields. Not a good strategy. We'll figure out a downtime number that balances the arena strategy to a reasonable time - that's a promise.
Commanders have to balance three imporant items:
a) Ability to strike at their opponent
b) Ability to defend your assets
c) Ability to re-supply your assets
You also have to think about putting your fighters close enough so they can escort your bombers - if that's your method - bombers with escort. Or you can choose JABO - Jugs,P-38's,P-51's, F series , Bf-110's, Fw-190's, that can do both JABO, Fight, or defend.
Now the war isn't so cut and dry. It's getting interesting - how can a commander pick their fields and weapon choices so that it a) engage their opponent, b) gives them a strategic advantage, c) allows best options for their war effort.
All of a sudden, it becomes very important to pick the right tools for the right jobs. Otherwise, you'll be stuck off-balanced with your opponent and you'll get hammered in round 1 - and you may not be able to recover if your strategic objects are all at or near 0% - which means you may have $20,000-$50,000 + anything left over from your first purchase. This ends your war before it really got started.
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Simply go to the Dueling arena if you don't like it.
is this Tango from 412th???
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is this Tango from 412th???
Nope, always been with the 78th. We came over from WW2OL, just don't tell anyone. :aok
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:rock Obviously a lot of time and effort has gone into bringing this AvA alternative. All that is needed is the patience needed to learn how to make this challenge enjoyable to the majority of its participants.
Fork please sticky your original post without the resulting comments. I think that you need to make major announcements including General Discussions, News, and even if possible on home page news to inform folks what rules or strategies wil apply.
If you do have a projected start date (say 2 weeks :lol) keep us informed. Please don't delay too long though. I doubt that those who are anticipating such changes will be very impressed with the current war.
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well with capturing out of the window we should be able to see long strat bombing runs from up high.
The luftwaffe will get their "lets go to 30k and kill some bombers" The allies will get their immersion similar to the der grosse schlag event.
I guess it will be more down to A2A combat with escorting/killing bombers.
It could be very boring off peak and very entertaining with lots of guys in the room.
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well with capturing out of the window we should be able to see long strat bombing runs from up high.
The luftwaffe will get their "lets go to 30k and kill some bombers" The allies will get their immersion similar to the der grosse schlag event.
I guess it will be more down to A2A combat with escorting/killing bombers.
It could be very boring off peak and very entertaining with lots of guys in the room.
This is what our sqaud is all about. We love to escort bombers and to see a group of bombers instead of a vic or two. This will be an outstanding event, of course there will be those that won't like it because its not insta-action furballs.
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I guess it will be more down to A2A combat with escorting/killing bombers.
It could be very boring off peak and very entertaining with lots of guys in the room.
More than one way to skin a cat. Off peak times there are opportunities to affect the war effort JABO or to defend precious assets. Or even to set up your own personal challenge (like in the old days) that is what I am hoping for.
:aok