Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AApache on April 09, 2008, 08:06:56 PM
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Sometime in the future it would be nice to see the British tank called the comet. It used a massive 77MM shell equal to the 17 pounder. It had denser armor than the sherman and was called the sports cars of tanks by the british soldiers who enjoyed it in 1945. It also used a armor piercing high velocity depleted Sabo round which we would be the equivelant of our modern day uranium depleted rounds.The comet also utilized a wider track profile than that of the sherman.
It has been a pleasure to see so many changes in the game and this tank would be awesome. It was britians answer to the panther and the tiger.Britian had nothing that would penetrate tiger armor until the Comet.Historians and the History channel as well as the operators of this vehicle spoke very highly of this tank during the show and to date there are only 12 that have been restored to running condition. Let's keep the game growing with fresh new inovations.
= salute = and keep it coming research and development team :salute
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The Firefly showed up after the Comet?
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Interesting. There's a general topics thread about the Comet as well. I started looking at info on it, but didn't get far enough to form an opinion about it. One thing that was lacking in everything I read was commentary from those who were actually part of a Comet crew.
*edit* I did see something about it having to be relegated to being an anti-tank weapon, as there were some problems with the HE rounds. Will read more about that later though.
Here's the link to the other Comet thread:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,232909.0.html#top
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I still want a Panzer 3H
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I am pretty sure I read the 77 on the comet was a shorter 17 pounder. I don't see how a shorter 17 pounder would be better then a long 17pounder.
A depleted what round?
Someone who knows something about tanks should debunk the first post.
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Interesting. There's a general topics thread about the Comet as well. I started looking at info on it, but didn't get far enough to form an opinion about it. One thing that was lacking in everything I read was commentary from those who were actually part of a Comet crew.
*edit* I did see something about it having to be relegated to being an anti-tank weapon, as there were some problems with the HE rounds. Will read more about that later though.
I'm sorry, but the idea of someone's mum being interested in the ballistic characteristics of obscure WW2 British tanks is just a little bit... well... weird.
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BTW, I think you mean Britain.
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the firefly came before the comet,but we all know the fire fly is a upgunned sherman,with the
same sherman armour.
The comet had better armour better gun and better amunition,it could take on the latest german
tanks almost as a equal and win.
The comet from what i have seen was loved by its crews.
although when it was introduced in 1945 it was already oblescent and would be no match for the russian heavey tanks if the cold war hadnt been cold in 1946.
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Here was my wishlist for tanks a couple of years ago. I would still want the same tanks and maybe a couple of others.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,177843.0.html
British tanks
Crusader III – up to 51mm frontal armor, 57mm gun, 2,800 fps, able to penetrate 81mm of armor at 500 yds. Variations include Cursader III AA anti-aircraft vehicle with one 40mm Bofors gun or with twin 20mm Oerlikon cannon.
Speed approx 28 mph
Cromwell IV – up to 76mm armor, 75mm gun, 2,030 fps, able to penetrate 68mm armor at 500 yds. Variations include Cromwell VI with 94mm howitzer, Cromwell VIII upgraded armor to 101mm.
Speed varies from 28 mph to 40mph depending on version
A34 Crusier Tank Comet – up to 101mm armor, 77mm gun, 2,600 fps, able to penetrate 109mm armor at a range of 500 yds
Speed approx 32mph
Churchill VI - up to 104mm armor, 75mm gun. 2,030 fps, penetrate 68mm armor at 500 yds. Several variations including Churchill V armed with 94mm howitzer and the Churchill VII with frontal armor up to 152mm and armed with 75mm gun
US tanks
M24 Chaffee – up to 38mm armor, 75mm gun, speed approx 34mph
M36 Gun Motor Carriage – 90mm anti-tank gun, open top, uses hull of M4 Sherman
M4A4 Sherman (also British as the Sherman VC Firefly) 76.2mm gun, upto 76mm armor, speed approx 22 mph
M26 Pershing – 90mm gun, upto 102mm armor, speed approx 30mph
Russian
T-34/85 – upto 75mm armor, 85mm gun, 2,625 fps and penetrate 102mm at 1,095 yds. speed approx 31 mph
KV-85 – upto 110mm armor, 85mm gun , same as T-34/85.
Speed approx 22 mph
IS-1, IS-2, or IS-3 – upto 120mm armor, 122mm gun, 2,559 fps, speed approx 22 mph
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I'm sorry, but the idea of someone's mum being interested in the ballistic characteristics of obscure WW2 British tanks is just a little bit... well... weird.
Oh, my interest is never in the machinery (of anything) ~ almost entirely in the people. :)
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I am pretty sure I read the 77 on the comet was a shorter 17 pounder. I don't see how a shorter 17 pounder would be better then a long 17pounder.
A depleted what round?
Someone who knows something about tanks should debunk the first post.
I am curious why anything should be 'debunked' just because you don't know what depleted uranium rounds are. Sorry, that confuses me...
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Because it was not clear in this thread.
The 77mm is a smaller gun that fires a de-rated 17 pounder round of significantly diminished penetration for any given ammo type compared to the 17 pounder.
20mm - 30 mm less depending on whether it was sabot or not.
Its performance is more like the 75mm L48 on the panzer IVH then the Fireflys 17 pounder.
Compared to the Firefly, your trading some gun for some armour and lots of speed.
The comet would have to treat the Tiger with more respect then the Firefly does.
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I am curious why anything should be 'debunked' just because you don't know what depleted uranium rounds are. Sorry, that confuses me...
Ok smart guy, show me a anything proving that they had depleted uranium rounds in 1945-50.... :rofl
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Because it was not clear in this thread.
The 77mm is a smaller gun that fires a de-rated 17 pounder round of significantly diminished penetration for any given ammo type compared to the 17 pounder.
20mm - 30 mm less depending on whether it was sabot or not.
Its performance is more like the 75mm L48 on the panzer IVH then the Fireflys 17 pounder.
Compared to the Firefly, your trading some gun for some armour and lots of speed.
The comet would have to treat the Tiger with more respect then the Firefly does.
At least the same- The firefly IS still a sherman. The 17-pounder isn't some magical wand that deflects' 88mm shells. The Firefly's survival depends' upon getting a first shot, at about 500 yrds. to be sure of a first-round kill. Otherwise, the Tiger's first shot in the engagement will be the last.
The Comet's armor might let it survive at a closer range to a Tiger than the Firefly could.
BTW, Why is this in the O'club, and not Planes' and Vehicles?
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Ok smart guy, show me a anything proving that they had depleted uranium rounds in 1945-50.... :rofl
His post does not say they used them, he compared the two, correctly or incorrectly is irrelevant regarding your post for someone to debunk his entire post. If you had asked someone to debunk this specific item as you now elaborate, I would not have needed to reply at all. So, please be more specific in the future, communication is everything.
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Thought this was going to be a thread about hamburgers!
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The Sherman WITHOUT the 17 pounder has no chance against a Tiger... except by gang-ramming perhaps?
Anyway, the Comet is much better. It's faster, thicker, lower, wider and slightly heavier than...the Firefly :D
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It also used a armor piercing high velocity depleted Sabo round which we would be the equivelant of our modern day uranium depleted rounds.
A depleted what round?
I'd like to know what AApache was talking about also. The only *depleted* rounds I've ever heard of are depleted uranium rounds. I saw a show where a Comet was being restored and it was mentioned that it fired a Sabot round but didn't say it was *depleted*. /shrug
His post does not say they used them, he compared the two,
Since the depleted aspect of his statement is in question, I'm not sure what he was doing. :)
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BTW Comets were used into the early 80's AFAIK....
Not sure what the rounds were at the time....
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I think that AApache may have only meant that the Sabot rounds used were the "top of the line" for that time period; in the same fashion that depleted uranium later became "top of the line." I don't see any comparison between the two in his post other than that, though.
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At least the same- The firefly IS still a sherman. The 17-pounder isn't some magical wand that deflects' 88mm shells. The Firefly's survival depends' upon getting a first shot, at about 500 yrds. to be sure of a first-round kill. Otherwise, the Tiger's first shot in the engagement will be the last.
The Comet's armor might let it survive at a closer range to a Tiger than the Firefly could.
BTW, Why is this in the O'club, and not Planes' and Vehicles?
The Tiger has surplus killing power against either, Choose speed or killing power, in history killing power trumps speed.
Neither tank has the ability to go one on one with Tiger with confidence. Both can easily be defeated by the tiger but cannot be sure of returning the favour at longer ranges.
The Sherman has a better chance of killing the Tiger at a range that it might resist the 88mm hit. The Comet might be missed by the tiger because of its speed, but would have to count on a few of those to threaten the tiger.
Given the choice, I would take the higher chance of killing the tiger with my first shot.
Against a panther it gets worse for the comet.
So I will take the firefly, I suspect most would if the comet was introduced.
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Tiger has one drawback....slow turret traverse.
AFAIK 1 minute. Will have to look up on this though, but the allied tackle on Tigers was basically baiting them as somebody else nailed them from another direction.
Gangbanging, just like AH pony tactics :D
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Tiger has one drawback....slow turret traverse.
and they break down allot. and they are hard to fix in the field. and they took too long to build. and they weighed too much.
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I'd like to know what AApache was talking about also. The only *depleted* rounds I've ever heard of are depleted uranium rounds. I saw a show where a Comet was being restored and it was mentioned that it fired a Sabot round but didn't say it was *depleted*. /shrug
Since the depleted aspect of his statement is in question, I'm not sure what he was doing. :)
Rounds used were APDS (Armour Piercing, Discarding Sabot) type with Tungsten (Wolfram) penetrator.
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So, in short, the best penetrating rounds available....
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So, in short, the best penetrating rounds available....
The same round type in a 17 pounder would be a better gun.
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So, in short, the best penetrating rounds available....
but very inaccurate at first. To penetrate any armor you have to hit it first.
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To penetrate a Tiger, you have to be close anyway?
And to get a good bead, a stable (wide) tank?
And to get a first bead, speed and traverse?
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17pdr had 15-20% better penetration at any range compared to Comet's 77mm when using same ammo.
17pdr's APDS could penetrate Tiger 1's armor from about any range, from 3000m it penetrated +150mm @ straight hit.
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Holy cow! I knew it penetrated well, but that well, holy moly!
AFAIK the Comet had to lower this due to a different turret anyway, but obviously still packed some power as well as being faster, stabler and more heavily armed than the Firefly.