Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Squire on April 12, 2008, 01:08:00 AM
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At work night shift, and I have some time to reflect upon the design, and how it all went...
First off <S> to Bearkats and the IJN that was an intense and fun fight. Well flown.
I enjoy the CiC stuff, but it is stress filled and im releived frame 1 is done. ;)
Ok a few comments:
Im going to come down on the "nyet" side re: the BDA pics thing, I think its too ponderous a task to be snapping screenshots in the middle of a huge fight. I would suggest that perhaps a single "high value target" be assigned a BDA photo mission? but not all of them. To get no points for bomb damage without photos from a surviving rtb'd pilot on top of all the other hurdles, maybe too much to ask. The IJ get full pts for gnd targets not hit, with none of the risks involved in this setup.
The #s were very close for pilots @ 230 or so for each side, so no big issue there. I will comment on the design though that have one side all "attacking" with one all "defending" with a 50/50 split. The USN had to sortie 32 TBMs and at least 1/3 of the fighters in Jabo mode, while the IJ just flies 100 percent CAP with no targets to hit of their own, with an equal # of a/c.
Im thinking a 60/40 split would have been more appropriate, especially as the defenders are in 1944-45 cannon armed rides (save the 32 A6M5s), in other words, the a/c are equal in quality, its not F6Fs vs A6M5s.
Anyways, all it is is feedback for future debate/consideration...I had fun, for me thats #1, it was a tough slog, and I will cya all next week.
I want to thank all my guys for giving a good effort, especially the Bomber/Jabo grps, they had the toughest jobs by far. <S>.
PS:
I have not yet heard from my squad leads as to what if any BDA photos we got, I will send an email out tmmrw. Let me know what you need me to do. If you want me to post them I will. :aok
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<---- Got owned :(
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<---- Got owned :(
Our flight of 10 F6Fs ran into a flight of around 15 N1ks, we were handling them alright when another flight of around 15 N1Ks jumped in. We had on survivor. So, we got owned as well.
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Im going to come down on the "nyet" side re: the BDA pics thing, I think its too ponderous a task to be snapping screenshots in the middle of a huge fight.
I've got the logs for backup scoring, and we'll compare. If its not something that's feasible, we'll drop it.
The #s were very close for pilots @ 230 or so for each side, so no big issue there. I will comment on the design though that have one side all "attacking" with one all "defending" with a 50/50 split. The USN had to sortie 32 TBMs and at least 1/3 of the fighters in Jabo mode, while the IJ just flies 100 percent CAP with no targets to hit of their own, with an equal # of a/c.
Im thinking a 60/40 split would have been more appropriate, especially as the defenders are in 1944-45 cannon armed rides (save the 32 A6M5s), in other words, the a/c are equal in quality, its not F6Fs vs A6M5s.
I'm going to look at any adjustments that need to be made with respect to numbers and see what we need to do. I may plus up the USN side. Standby for more information there.
Good feedback there. Nice to read reasonable, rational, and constructive criticism. We try and mix the batter just right, but sometimes the recipe needs tweaking. All changes will be in place for frame 2.
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My experience was horrible, and I don't mean because I got shot down, but because I had no involvement/influence in what happened. I'm hoping it's just a fluke or one time thing that it was so miserable. Flew for 40/50 minutes into a horde of higher alt enemy and died without being able to do a thing, good or bad. Must have been close to 5 to 1 odds before we got close to land, let alone a target.
Don't know if it was really clever strategy by the IJN, bad planning by the U.S. command, just bad luck, or a faulty game set up. Waiting to hear the overall assessment of what happened so I can figure it out. But this offered no enjoyment whatsoever. Will stick it out for next two frames, then decide if it's worth the wasted time.
Sorry to be so negative, it was just colossal un-fun. More like a quickie Snapshot than a mini-Scenario.
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Take a few days Slow, I know it sucks to have a bad frame, I have been there BELEIVE ME, but dont just yank your squad out, thats not helpfull. If anybodys to blame on the USN side, its me. FSOs can have very unforgiving frames (for any # of reasons), thats par for the course, but dont let it sour you on the whole thing dude.
Last FSO frame I ran into a blob of P-38Gs in my A6M2 grp, yeehaw. :huh it happens.
...Anyways I just wanted to have a few constructive point made, not going to add fuel to some long flame thread. FSOs are still the best part of AH, warts and all. They aren't easy to design (I have done that) or lead (done that too).
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I was shot down, still had a blast. Sure need to work on my fighter skills though. I'm too use to b and z in the ma.
Nice job Warloc <S>
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Reminded me of last months frame 3 where 2 large equal forces ran right in to each other. Only this time wasn't any clouds to hide in. Because of the way we ran our defensive cap i don't think any group was more than 5 or 6 miles from at least 2 other groups. This gave us almost immediate help available when encountering a larger force. Was still fun and interesting.
AKsleepy
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Well sloehand, I not sure where u were but every allied aircraft I ran into was 25-30k while i was 22k. I still managed to survive and kill them butas far as what I saw, allied aircrafts was higher then IJN aircrafts.
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East attack group's fighter sweep was between 25-27k. We STILL had to look up to see the dozens of Ki-84s and N1Ks.
For that matter, WERE there even any Zeros out there?
Personally, I think numbers of Franks and Georges should be much more restricted because there weren't all that many of them built historically, but I'm sure the Axis would complain about that.
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There where 43 A6Ms used.
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Osaka Bay was a hornets nest of N1Ks and Ki61s. A huge fight ensued and within minutes I was separated from my group. I dove on a Zeke 5 that was going after a squaddie, got a fuel hit on him, Climbed back up but got beat by a Tony. I heard my remains were plucked out of Osaka Bay later by a Fishing Boat.
Great fight, Flying over Osaka area must have been a daunting task in real life. Ack was thick. Great frame, after the initial engagement, I thought I was going to be able to accomplish something that rarely happens for me. Returning to base.
<S> sidey of the Raw Prawns.
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With all offense vs all defense the numbers should probably be adjusted to 60/40 or 55/45 in Allies favor next time.
I would say that this sort of vicious defense is why Rosevelt made the decision he did to end the war.
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Think all the zero's were in the 15-11 sector at the ammo factory. We had 21 pilots with no escort. Our F6F's were loaded with bombs and we were able to hit our target, but there were too many fighters for us to handle. We were able to get our BDA pilot back and landed. Think there were 3 to 5 out of the 21 that made it back.
I would guess there were at least 40 pilots in the target area, I could be wrong. As for all the allied pilots being higher, that was not the case for us. Our orders were to climb to 15k and go level. We got to target, we hit target (49 objects destroyed), engaged NME (we took 9 down with us), we got the BDA photos, then returned about 3 pilots to the cv groups. There was 60 mins left in the and I had the guys land. Just was too far of a flight to be able to up again. Was not worth scratching the factory a bit more.
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Our flight of 10 F6Fs ran into a flight of around 15 N1ks, we were handling them alright when another flight of around 15 N1Ks jumped in. We had on survivor. So, we got owned as well.
Hi Roidrage, that might have been us :), except I counted out about 16+ F6s I think.
Were you out ocean side of A87 area? Tahgut and I had been called out to search. We spotted a large group of F6Fs, and vectored the closer group of Clowns into you, the Nightmares were right on their heels and came in shortly after engagement.
What a fight!! :salute to you if it was you, and feel free to accept that salute if not simply because that was a fun frame.
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:O We were in a TBM group that hit the Flak Factory. We also climbed to 15k, bombed our target, dove and used rockets and TRIED to return to base undar but 7 or 8 zeros and Niki's chased us down one by one and shot us down. A group of other TBM's were about 3K ahead of us runnin back to the CV and it looks like they made it! Yes, I was one of the tallies for AKDogg :salute . The last one before he had to return to base for fuel/ammo. I knew I should have turned and tried to fight em as they were pickin on my squaddie! As it turned out, I turned to fight them after they were on my six and was easily killed.
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I continued to chase those tbms after u for alittle but have a left main fuel leak, I had to break chase. Lucky for them, hehehehe :devil
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my FSO was going well till i received friendly fire on accident. But all went bad when i tried to ditch and a friendly (rival in the MA) intentionally killed me :mad:
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Hey CHawk's, you might want to READ the entire orders again. I just did. Your squad and ours were supposed to have escorts. Unfortunately, the plan would still have NOT worked. My point is this:
It's up to each Squad CO to fully understand the orders and to make comments prior to the event.
I take full responsibility for my squads slaughter at A87, as we were in the same boat as you Chawks. I'd suggest All COs spend Thursday Nights reading the orders entirely, since there are now over 400 pilots looking to YOU for their equal chance of having fun.
<S>
Note to Frame 2 and 3 CiC's.
You'll probably have about over 400 pilots in the next two frames. That's about >35 pilots for 6 action zones for each side. That's about 70 planes in the sky for each zone during combat. Server says; when more than 32 get together, glitches will be seen, such as planes dissappearing and enemy planes appearing out of line air. It's a very large map, and so, you might want to use it. Also, try to keep things simple NEVER rely on Hoarding as a tactic. Very unfun for both sides. Show some creativity and remember, let us have fun.
Oh and FiLth, guess you slept with the same fishes as us on friday night. <S> to your chasing abilities and vectoring skills. Argh!
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I'm not going to blame Allied failure on this entirely, but I still think that A6Ms should have made up more than just ~18% of the Axis force.
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why Rosevelt made the decision he did to end the war.
Might want to check your history there.
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I'm not going to blame Allied failure on this entirely, but I still think that A6Ms should have made up more than just ~18% of the Axis force.
Aircraft type mins/maxs were based on an expected 400 total pilots. We had 460, so that through my requirements off. Nothing that can't be adjusted.
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Hey CHawk's, you might want to READ the entire orders again. I just did.
Hey Kermit, can you shoot me those orders?
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Had a fun time as a walk on, my squad too, thanks guys.
From what I gather by the posts, IJ won the frame.
Does one need to reset convergence settings from the MA, for SEA? I mustof dumped 200 cannon and missed every shot from 400 out.
As n1k's we carried 75% and drop, which allowed us time to get uber alt and wait. I wonder if maybe historically, IJ would have had to ration gas much more, and not had alt and initiative on any given day (suprise attack).
Does takeoff time ever vary between axis and allied?
Were there manned ack positions available for axis?
Anyway, good fun. 'preciate the CiC efforts on this.
Dredg :salute
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I can see fuel restriction as a valid handicap. But I would just love not having to see 30k Ki-84s dropping on my head again. :rolleyes: Removing the Allied restriction of not being able to use the 1000lb bombs would help balance the bomber and jabo missions (it takes 3000lbs of ordinance to destroy a hangar. One F4U with the 2x1000lb bombs and rockets can do that, but forcing them to take the 500lbers means TWO aircraft have to make it through to target for each hangar, not just one).
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I can see fuel restriction as a valid handicap. But I would just love not having to see 30k Ki-84s dropping on my head again. :rolleyes: Removing the Allied restriction of not being able to use the 1000lb bombs would help balance the bomber and jabo missions (it takes 3000lbs of ordinance to destroy a hangar. One F4U with the 2x1000lb bombs and rockets can do that, but forcing them to take the 500lbers means TWO aircraft have to make it through to target for each hangar, not just one).
TBM's can still carry 2,000 lbs of bombs, plus rockets. Enough to drop a hangar single-handedly.
One thing that didn't work out was the weather that was supposed to create some cover. It will be there for Frame 2 & 3.
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Hey Kermit, can you shoot me those orders?
Email was sent last night.
Edit: looks like email didn't get sent. Sorry about that. Sent now.
:salute
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I had a fun night in a KI84 around 87. Only saw 1 f6f late and lost my elevator on the way in. I did make it back to the field though. Its been a tough month with FSO from my squad, but thats the way it goes Slow. I understand your feelings though (See post for frame 2 of 1000miles of mud snow and ice).
<S>
Vlkyrie1
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Hi Roidrage, that might have been us :), except I counted out about 16+ F6s I think.
Were you out ocean side of A87 area? Tahgut and I had been called out to search. We spotted a large group of F6Fs, and vectored the closer group of Clowns into you, the Nightmares were right on their heels and came in shortly after engagement.
What a fight!! :salute to you if it was you, and feel free to accept that salute if not simply because that was a fun frame.
That was us ROC :) I was the F6F that was diving at about 600mph ;) Made the drop then scooted out, but all I saw in the rear view was a WALL of red from 2k all the way up to 15k or so heading south on my 6. :(
One group = fun....
2 groups = pucker of 10
3+ groups = why bother? ;)
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Little story about the event:
We'd just encountered that large group of KI-84s with alt and I'd just had my right aileron knocked off by one and was diving/extending away when my door starts thumping loud enough to get through my headphones. "WTF?" I set autolevel and take off my phones.
"Jay, you in there?" I go answer the door and it's one of my local friends, Paul who I've managed to addict to the game.
"I've been trying to call and see about flying the game together tonight, you're not answering the phone."
"That's because, uh, I'm playing it and I'm in an event."
(Paul walks three feet into my tiny trashed-out apartment and sees the game on.)
"Event? What kind of event?"
"Friday Squad Ops. This one right up my ally. I'm flying an Hog versus the best the Japanese have to throw at us. And .. I'm right in the middle of a fight!"
I unplug the phone part of the headset to allow sounds on the speaker.
Speaker: "Guthrie, where are you?" I bring up the mike.
"Turning around to climb and find you guys,"
And then Paul starts.
"Hog? What's a 'Hog?' So, looks pretty cool. How long you been playing this event?"
"First FSO frame of my life tonight. Been in other events in the past. This one's the first in years and I've really been looking forward to it. 'Hog's' a Corsair in this case."
Speaker: "We have more to the East, high" "I see em" "Watch your six" "I'm hit"
"In this case?"
"Yeah. The P-47 is also called that."
Speaker: "Watch it, he's coming around!" "I think one's headed to Guthrie."
(To mike) "I'm watching" (Well as best I can under the circumstances)
Paul continues, "So how long does it last?"
"Probably another hour, Paul. If I live long enough to reach the end of the frame, that is."
"Where is your base?"
So basically I end up explaining to Paul aka "SpprDoc" what an event is, what FSO is, how long they last, why they only allow one life per frame, how it only runs once a week and even then sometimes it doesn't, why my F4U doesn't roll as well when it's missing an aileron, why a Ki-84 that's at 30k and is at cruising speed has an advantage over an F4U at 25k and climbing, why the second Ki got me and then why I insist, now that I'm dead, to wait at the CV I so much wanted to land at, killess or not, for the surviving members of the squadron to land.
Heh ... then he says ... "Ok, well I'm gonna go back to the house and log on so we can fly together now."
"Ok, Paul, thanks for dropping by."
Heh. Such are the breaks.
AAR report: Halfway through the battle I had to take my head out of it and explain the scenario to a friend. Shot down by a Ki-84.
Moral of the story ... when there's a Ki-84, don't answer the door. Oh, and never tell your local friends about AHII.
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Was just stating what went on with us. Was not a complaint that we did not have escorts. From what I understood, we had no escort, but there were forward fighter sweeps assigned. I am not saying the sweeps did not try, sucked, or we got screwed. That is just the way FSO goes, I don't expect it to be easy. Not one of my guys complained about anything. They just did what was asked, as they always do. My simple point was this: there were a bunch of NME. Again, I understand, this is the way FSO goes. It was fun, it was a challenge, and I look forward to next Fri. :aok
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Having watched the takeoffs from our TF, it ended up being our 2 squads attacking 2 close together targets with no sweep in advance, it was our two squads of heavy f6fs vs 6 or 7 defending squads. Tough to do much of anything in that kind of situation. I feel worse for the axis really, 40 some defenders over our target and they only see 13 f6fs the whole night.
I knocked out a FH and Filth and Ghstdncr in their nikis :D Teach you too to pick on my fleeing squaddies :D
Maybe we'll get better orders for the next frame?
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Here's hoping that the a/c percentages get adjusted. Otherwise I think that the next 2 frames will be a repeat of frame 1 :eek: The plan was good [>S< Warloc] but the outcome was
inevitable. The 60/40 split that was mentioned in another post would even things up a bit. I'm worried that a large number of guys will write this one off and we'll have a low turnout
in the next 2 frames if there isnt an adjustment made
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Oh, and never tell your local friends about AHII.
Without a local friend telling me about this, I wouldn't have this addiction that's going on 7 years. I also would have a lot more honey do items done and be a much more well rested individual. :D
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At work night shift, and I have some time to reflect upon the design, and how it all went...
First off <S> to Bearkats and the IJN that was an intense and fun fight. Well flown.
I enjoy the CiC stuff, but it is stress filled and im releived frame 1 is done. ;)
Ok a few comments:
Im going to come down on the "nyet" side re: the BDA pics thing, I think its too ponderous a task to be snapping screenshots in the middle of a huge fight. I would suggest that perhaps a single "high value target" be assigned a BDA photo mission? but not all of them. To get no points for bomb damage without photos from a surviving rtb'd pilot on top of all the other hurdles, maybe too much to ask. The IJ get full pts for gnd targets not hit, with none of the risks involved in this setup.
The #s were very close for pilots @ 230 or so for each side, so no big issue there. I will comment on the design though that have one side all "attacking" with one all "defending" with a 50/50 split. The USN had to sortie 32 TBMs and at least 1/3 of the fighters in Jabo mode, while the IJ just flies 100 percent CAP with no targets to hit of their own, with an equal # of a/c.
Im thinking a 60/40 split would have been more appropriate, especially as the defenders are in 1944-45 cannon armed rides (save the 32 A6M5s), in other words, the a/c are equal in quality, its not F6Fs vs A6M5s.
Anyways, all it is is feedback for future debate/consideration...I had fun, for me thats #1, it was a tough slog, and I will cya all next week.
I want to thank all my guys for giving a good effort, especially the Bomber/Jabo grps, they had the toughest jobs by far. <S>.
PS:
I have not yet heard from my squad leads as to what if any BDA photos we got, I will send an email out tmmrw. Let me know what you need me to do. If you want me to post them I will. :aok
I haven't read all of these posts yet, but this would fit my assessment to a tee. I made it home, and the F6F is one of my favorite rides but there were far too many 25k toneys and Georges diving in on us for me to do much but get a few kills after drop and Haul arse out of there. No chance to save many squaddies due to sheer numbers. the last few of us did manage to get our photo recon plane home so I guess that was a minor victory. All in all, I had fun but many squaddies would say otherwise.
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Where scores from Frame 1 posted yet? Or did I miss them?
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Where scores from Frame 1 posted yet? Or did I miss them?
Separate thread will be posted with the score. Thought I would have it done tonight, but it will probably be tomorrow night.
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At work night shift, and I have some time to reflect upon the design, and how it all went...
First off <S> to Bearkats and the IJN that was an intense and fun fight. Well flown.
I enjoy the CiC stuff, but it is stress filled and im releived frame 1 is done. ;)
Ok a few comments:
Im going to come down on the "nyet" side re: the BDA pics thing, I think its too ponderous a task to be snapping screenshots in the middle of a huge fight. I would suggest that perhaps a single "high value target" be assigned a BDA photo mission? but not all of them. To get no points for bomb damage without photos from a surviving rtb'd pilot on top of all the other hurdles, maybe too much to ask. The IJ get full pts for gnd targets not hit, with none of the risks involved in this setup.
The #s were very close for pilots @ 230 or so for each side, so no big issue there. I will comment on the design though that have one side all "attacking" with one all "defending" with a 50/50 split. The USN had to sortie 32 TBMs and at least 1/3 of the fighters in Jabo mode, while the IJ just flies 100 percent CAP with no targets to hit of their own, with an equal # of a/c.
Im thinking a 60/40 split would have been more appropriate, especially as the defenders are in 1944-45 cannon armed rides (save the 32 A6M5s), in other words, the a/c are equal in quality, its not F6Fs vs A6M5s.
Anyways, all it is is feedback for future debate/consideration...I had fun, for me thats #1, it was a tough slog, and I will cya all next week.
I want to thank all my guys for giving a good effort, especially the Bomber/Jabo grps, they had the toughest jobs by far. <S>.
PS:
I have not yet heard from my squad leads as to what if any BDA photos we got, I will send an email out tmmrw. Let me know what you need me to do. If you want me to post them I will. :aok
I agree. The Frame was very favorable to the IJ side. I don't see Frame II being much different if the IJ are already at 30k in a 100% defensive mode. It's pretty easy to kill heavy TBMs & JABOs (that must hit their target to score anything) when your Niki is at 30k already.