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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tr1gg22 on April 15, 2008, 01:21:01 PM

Title: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Tr1gg22 on April 15, 2008, 01:21:01 PM
Just a little curious can anyone perform a correct hammerhead? I cant pull it off. I was told by a few people that AH flight model wont allow it to be done correctly...If u can post a film and give some pointers....The closest I can come is while flying a hog.!!S!! and good luk...
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: toonces3 on April 15, 2008, 02:19:33 PM
I believe I also read that the flight model will not allow it.

There's one or two planes in the game where it IS possible through some quirk in the flight model.  I don't remember what plane(s) they were though.

I'm pretty sure I read this a few months ago...one of the pros will chime in I'm sure.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: BiPoLaR on April 15, 2008, 02:22:18 PM
i seen a post of some guy doing it in a 38
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: SunBat on April 15, 2008, 02:45:41 PM
I'd like to know the plane/planes that it is doable in.  I have tried several times with no luck.  I can get a 38 to do a pretty good vertical flat turn but it is not a real hammerhead...
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: hitech on April 15, 2008, 02:52:51 PM
I know I have done them in the RV, P51,SPIT, KI,A6M5, not sure I have had any It could not be done, some are much more difficult than others.

Also can you describe exactly what you think a Hammer head is?


Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: -pjk-- on April 15, 2008, 02:57:57 PM
I have never succeed to do hammerhead in 109, tryed 100`s of time, but no way to do it in AH/ WB.
What i mean as hammerhead is same as todays aerobatics.
Have done it in RL: c150 :D,Eagle, Pitts and Rv4
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: mechanic on April 15, 2008, 03:06:46 PM
have done them in mosquito many times, some more pretty than others. other planes i have done loose and tight hammers in are the p38, f4uD, P47D40 and spitV. maybe some more.  it is all in the throttle work and torque management, plus you must initiate the start of the flip a fraction before you reach critical stall speed or you are more likely to half roll and pull some sort of wingover.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Shuffler on April 15, 2008, 03:14:52 PM
Hammerhead Maneuver

http://www.fightercombat.com/clips/hammerhead_high.wmv
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: moot on April 15, 2008, 03:17:35 PM
I've never been in a plane that made a hammerhead, but a someone who was says they just don't happen in AH as they should.  As far as I understand it, a hammerhead is flipping around a yaw axis at the top of a vertical, with the axis somewhere between the nose and tail of the airplane.
I can do it in the game, but it's pretty slow compared to almost every hammerhead I've seen on video, although those real planes are probably a lot lighter than the fighters in AH.  
The most efficient hammerhead in AH, in my experience, is one where the stall horn never sounds.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Strip on April 15, 2008, 03:47:35 PM
I have done it once in a 38 almost exactly like the video.

ONCE......never could do it again.

Strip
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: moot on April 15, 2008, 03:50:48 PM
Hehe, I think a 38 might just be able to do a 360+180 hammerhead :P
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Shuffler on April 15, 2008, 03:52:28 PM
 ;)
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Mr No Name on April 15, 2008, 04:29:36 PM
used to do those in 190s quite a bit but it seems the FM was changed awhile back... not really a complaint since they do turn better than they used to.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: hubsonfire on April 15, 2008, 04:44:16 PM
I was riding with Nath as a gunner when he did a nice hammerhead in a B17. It was bad azz.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Emu on April 15, 2008, 04:50:30 PM
If anyone could post some AH II film on how they did it, it would be great. I've tried, and they are sort of hammerheads, not pretty to look at; however, I may be doing them wrong.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Tr1gg22 on April 15, 2008, 05:03:22 PM
I know I have done them in the RV, P51,SPIT, KI,A6M5, not sure I have had any It could not be done, some are much more difficult than others.

Also can you describe exactly what you think a Hammer head is?



  going into verticle using aileron and rudder to keep perfect verticle line...Maybe a little throttle control....actually ur suppose to chop throttle then when ur bout to stall full throttle.Keeping ur plane with aileron and rudder in the same verticle line.Then ur plane is suppose to wing over cartwheel directly back down same path within a planes length...This is what a hammerhead is its not actually a stall..Or tail slide..I can do it in the rv 8 also...but not in 51 or spitty..I can forse most planes into somthin similar but its not a true hammerhead...
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: SkyRock on April 15, 2008, 05:15:54 PM
If anyone could post some AH II film on how they did it, it would be great. I've tried, and they are sort of hammerheads, not pretty to look at; however, I may be doing them wrong.
I did a hammerhead yesterday with Noviche riding with me in an f4u-1.  I was at the bottom of a rope and the guy didnt pull his tight, I did and fell in behind him.  :aok
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: TwentyFo on April 15, 2008, 06:25:52 PM
Effect taught me how to do the hammerhead in the P38. Here are the steps.

1.) Get speed and climb directly up using full power.
2.) Once airspeed is slow enough, deploy 3 notches of flaps and keep it in the vert.
3.) Right before stall happens give it maximum left rudder.
4.) Hopefully, if you've done it right, a hammerhead manuever will be executed.

It takes some practice to work on this manuever. But this is how I was taught the manuever. Hit me up in the MA if any of you guys want a demonstration.

<S>
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Bosco123 on April 15, 2008, 06:30:26 PM
I know I have done them in the RV, P51,SPIT, KI,A6M5, not sure I have had any It could not be done, some are much more difficult than others.

Also can you describe exactly what you think a Hammer head is?




A hammerhead is basically a flat stall rudder turn in a vertical situation. I have only been able to do it once, against BK in a 38. I don't remember how I did it, but I do remeber doing it.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Urchin on April 15, 2008, 06:33:05 PM
I actually did an absolutely beautiful one, in a FIGHT no less, in a P-39D.  Was knife fighting some guy in a Hurri-2C, had about 270 degrees on him but we were in a flat turn to the left (was before the flaps patch)... I knew I was a dead man, so I relaxed my turn and got my speed up to about 180 mph.  He finally got around on me, doing about 130 or so I'd guess... I pulled up, went completely vertical, held in right rudder as I was about to stall and went over in a neat hammerhead, pretty as you please. 

First and only one I've ever done.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Stang on April 15, 2008, 07:08:16 PM
It's my only real gripe with the flight model, but considering how good the rest of it is it's no biggie to me.  I've pulled one a number of times in a Pitts with Mars, including tumbling, and the only plane in AH that can do anything like real life is the P-38.  No torque and great rudder allows it.  In single engine rides even throttled way back the nose wants to keep spinning around, you can't hold it still to get a wing to dip properly.  The only single engine plane I can get close to one in is the F6.  Haven't tried the P39 though.  The mid engine might help it fall back.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: SkyRock on April 15, 2008, 10:37:20 PM
See Rules #4, #5
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Bucky73 on April 15, 2008, 11:40:03 PM
Is a "REAL" hammerhead possible in a game..................


hmmmmm :huh :confused:


I'm gonna say Negatory Maverick :aok
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: manurin on April 16, 2008, 07:14:14 AM
Works fine in corsairs (-1a), but as moot said, it's quite slow.

But I wouldn't wait to be too slow (stall) in order to keep a maximum rudder authority.

<S>
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Bruv119 on April 16, 2008, 07:48:42 AM
sharks fly?   :huh
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: mechanic on April 16, 2008, 09:02:44 AM
(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/shark.JPG)


 :D
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: 1Duke1 on April 16, 2008, 09:14:36 AM
I actually did an absolutely beautiful one, in a FIGHT no less, in a P-39D.  Was knife fighting some guy in a Hurri-2C, had about 270 degrees on him but we were in a flat turn to the left (was before the flaps patch)... I knew I was a dead man, so I relaxed my turn and got my speed up to about 180 mph.  He finally got around on me, doing about 130 or so I'd guess... I pulled up, went completely vertical, held in right rudder as I was about to stall and went over in a neat hammerhead, pretty as you please. 

First and only one I've ever done.

Speaking of Mars....does he still fly AH?  Haven't seen him around in awhile.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: bongaroo on April 16, 2008, 10:26:26 AM
Mars the CO of The Screamin Meanies?   <TSM>

If its the same guy than yes he does still fly.  A lot of the TSM fellows aren't on a whole lot but you should feel free to meet up with us tonight for squad night.  Gets started around 10:00 pm eastern, bishops, vox 143.

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Oleg on April 16, 2008, 11:15:45 AM
I would like to see film with hammerhead in any AH plane. My personal experience say its impossible, but you can do wingover instead.

http://www.furball.warbirdsiii.com/krod/images/wingover-anim.gif
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Yeager on April 16, 2008, 11:39:19 AM
yeah, I dont think the AH physics allows true hammerheads.  As often as I try it never happens......its like the airflow generated by the prop at those low over the top speeds stops working the rudder after the initial 25-30 degrees........you need 180 degrees rotation to do a hammerhead.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: DCCBOSS on April 16, 2008, 12:08:20 PM
Effect taught me how to do the hammerhead in the P38. Here are the steps.

1.) Get speed and climb directly up using full power.
2.) Once airspeed is slow enough, deploy 3 notches of flaps and keep it in the vert.
3.) Right before stall happens give it maximum left rudder.
4.) Hopefully, if you've done it right, a hammerhead manuever will be executed.

It takes some practice to work on this manuever. But this is how I was taught the manuever. Hit me up in the MA if any of you guys want a demonstration.

<S>

You are correct in the method you describe, a hammerhead manuever is a tail slide with full left or right rudder. I think the planes with less rudder surface area will be the harder ones to try this manuever with. :salute
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Oleg on April 16, 2008, 01:10:43 PM
This is not correct method, afaik. Steps 2 and 3 are wrong, you dont need flaps and you must apply full rudder only when your speed becomes zero or negative, no stalls happens during hammerhead. Generally, you will want to cut throttle when speed becomes too low to prevent rotation (isnt necessary for p-38 though).

Method described by TwentyFo will result wingover.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Halo46 on April 16, 2008, 01:14:41 PM
I know I have done them in the RV, P51,SPIT, KI,A6M5, not sure I have had any It could not be done, some are much more difficult than others.

Also can you describe exactly what you think a Hammer head is?




I guess this post has no merit. I have heard he is suspect as a source of information about the game.... :D
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Tr1gg22 on April 16, 2008, 03:00:09 PM
You are correct in the method you describe, a hammerhead manuever is a tail slide with full left or right rudder. I think the planes with less rudder surface area will be the harder ones to try this manuever with. :salute
  remember a real HH u dont stall or slide back at all u cartwheel almost instantly in the same path u were flying....DOWN
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Saurdaukar on April 16, 2008, 03:21:04 PM
Got really close in an F6F, once.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Shuffler on April 16, 2008, 03:38:31 PM
I guess this post has no merit. I have heard he is suspect as a source of information about the game.... :D


 :rofl  :rofl  :rofl
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: hitech on April 16, 2008, 03:48:25 PM
A hammer head does not result in a tail slide.

Tail slides with most real aircraft are very very bad things to try. Most planes are not built to have air flowing backwards over them, things like flaps bending and control surface rods bending do to reversed airflow are real possibilities.

A properly done Hammer head does not start at Zero airspeed. Rudder kick happens when still traveling up and Zero Airspeed happens when about Perpendicular to the world, I.E. 1 wing down.

Normally almost full Opposite aileron is applied as you push the rudder, and more forward stick is also applied as the plane wants to sorta of twist on its back. And learn the manuver to the left on American planes, Last year when I was flying a Yak in the Ukraine, forgot the prop went backwards, and they go much slower against the slip stream. Still can not believe the pilot not knowing me put me in an inverted spin.

Rudder kick speed is fairly critical and varies between planes, when I do them for real ( and i have done a lot of hammer heads) you only have about a 5 knot window for the Hammer head to work, to fast and the plane sorta just hangs with the rudder over for a while, then the nose comes down, to little speed and you do not have Roll control of the plane and it normally ends up on its back.

With the most AH planes start by doing them at 50% throttle or less. Full throttle you will have to do them at to high of speed and the top of the arc will not have the correct speed.

I also find them harder to do in a sim vs real life do to feel and the visual you get. But even in a real plane it took me about 20 tries to do one with out ending on my back or nose up in the exit. There is a lot of elevator inputs to keep the plane slicing instead of flopping one way or the other.

HiTech

Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Tr1gg22 on April 16, 2008, 04:02:47 PM
A hammer head does not result in a tail slide.

Tail slides with most real aircraft are very very bad things to try. Most planes are not built to have air flowing backwards over them, things like flaps bending and control surface rods bending do to reversed airflow are real possibilities.

A properly done Hammer head does not start at Zero airspeed. Rudder kick happens when still traveling up and Zero Airspeed happens when about Perpendicular to the world, I.E. 1 wing down.

Normally almost full Opposite aileron is applied as you push the rudder, and more forward stick is also applied as the plane wants to sorta of twist on its back. And learn the manuver to the left on American planes, Last year when I was flying a Yak in the Ukraine, forgot the prop went backwards, and they go much slower against the slip stream. Still can not believe the pilot not knowing me put me in an inverted spin.

Rudder kick speed is fairly critical and varies between planes, when I do them for real ( and i have done a lot of hammer heads) you only have about a 5 knot window for the Hammer head to work, to fast and the plane sorta just hangs with the rudder over for a while, then the nose comes down, to little speed and you do not have Roll control of the plane and it normally ends up on its back.

With the most AH planes start by doing them at 50% throttle or less. Full throttle you will have to do them at to high of speed and the top of the arc will not have the correct speed.

I also find them harder to do in a sim vs real life do to feel and the visual you get. But even in a real plane it took me about 20 tries to do one with out ending on my back or nose up in the exit. There is a lot of elevator inputs to keep the plane slicing instead of flopping one way or the other.

HiTech


  ok can u perform 1 for us and post it on film if u have time?
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: 2fly on April 16, 2008, 04:38:49 PM
  ok can u perform 1 for us and post it on film if u have time?

I second that request....please.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: mechanic on April 16, 2008, 05:44:46 PM
here are the best 2 of 5 that i just tried. they are maybe not perfect. they are almost as good as Patty Wagstaff's demonstration in MS flightsimulator from years back - heh. It is very hard to eliminate horizontal travel aswell as vertical during the turn. throttle work might clean that up. notice no use of flaps. the second one has a poor exit.
 
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/almost.ahf



I think Murdr was telling me the other day he got a nice dual throttle hammer head on film, i hope he will post it, his previous p38 film was the best example of an AH2 HH i have seen.




Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: CHECKERS on April 16, 2008, 06:56:22 PM


Also can you describe exactly what you think a Hammer head is?

 In AcesHigh....? sure , "Leviathn"  :rofl

  <S> CHECKERS



Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Yeager on April 16, 2008, 07:30:02 PM
But even in a real plane it took me about 20 tries to do one with out ending on my back or nose up in the exit.

HiTech

Careful up there dude, we need you here in AH  :aok
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Vulcan on April 16, 2008, 07:50:04 PM
You can do it in AH but it is hard, you've got to work the torque rudder, elevator, and ailerons hard. Tiffies were always good at it, same with 190s and 109s.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: ShrkBite on April 16, 2008, 08:14:36 PM
Done it in the RV-8 tons of times! its possible
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: OOZ662 on April 17, 2008, 12:11:01 AM
  ok can u perform 1 for us and post it on film if u have time?

If you had gone to the last convention (or heard the recording), you'd know HiTech doesn't play AH. :D
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: DCCBOSS on April 17, 2008, 12:30:12 PM
A hammer head does not result in a tail slide.

Tail slides with most real aircraft are very very bad things to try. Most planes are not built to have air flowing backwards over them, things like flaps bending and control surface rods bending do to reversed airflow are real possibilities.

A properly done Hammer head does not start at Zero airspeed. Rudder kick happens when still traveling up and Zero Airspeed happens when about Perpendicular to the world, I.E. 1 wing down.

Normally almost full Opposite aileron is applied as you push the rudder, and more forward stick is also applied as the plane wants to sorta of twist on its back. And learn the manuver to the left on American planes, Last year when I was flying a Yak in the Ukraine, forgot the prop went backwards, and they go much slower against the slip stream. Still can not believe the pilot not knowing me put me in an inverted spin.

Rudder kick speed is fairly critical and varies between planes, when I do them for real ( and i have done a lot of hammer heads) you only have about a 5 knot window for the Hammer head to work, to fast and the plane sorta just hangs with the rudder over for a while, then the nose comes down, to little speed and you do not have Roll control of the plane and it normally ends up on its back.

With the most AH planes start by doing them at 50% throttle or less. Full throttle you will have to do them at to high of speed and the top of the arc will not have the correct speed.

I also find them harder to do in a sim vs real life do to feel and the visual you get. But even in a real plane it took me about 20 tries to do one with out ending on my back or nose up in the exit. There is a lot of elevator inputs to keep the plane slicing instead of flopping one way or the other.

HiTech

I sorry you are right a hammerhead is not a tail slide, but I do fly RC up to 35% of scale mainly airobatic planes and I always use throttle just as I start stalling and let the rudder and propwash do the work, ofcourse you have to use all your other control inputs to maintane the proper alignment before this can happen. :salute


Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: RATTFINK on April 17, 2008, 12:38:41 PM
I went into the TA and tried all my fav. planes and found that the 38J (I didn't try the G or L) does a really nice hammerhead.

First, I went vert almost to the point of a stall, engine off, kicking rudder & the hammer was a thing of beauty.

Second, I did everything in the first try up to the point of stalling; but this time I turned one engine off while one was on, kicked rudder and almost did a vertical cartwheel. LMFAO
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Tr1gg22 on April 17, 2008, 01:32:07 PM
here are the best 2 of 5 that i just tried. they are maybe not perfect. they are almost as good as Patty Wagstaff's demonstration in MS flightsimulator from years back - heh. It is very hard to eliminate horizontal travel aswell as vertical during the turn. throttle work might clean that up. notice no use of flaps. the second one has a poor exit.
 
http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/almost.ahf



I think Murdr was telling me the other day he got a nice dual throttle hammer head on film, i hope he will post it, his previous p38 film was the best example of an AH2 HH i have seen.





thoughs were pretty nice.  :aok can u do them in any other plane?
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 17, 2008, 02:05:58 PM
Are you kidding me!?
THATS a hammer head!?

I call that a J-hook, and you can do it in every single plane in this game.
Some do it better than others, and twin engine planes need to have engine's managed while proceeding thru the turn.



All in all, its very simple, its just knowing at what speed your current plane will start* to stall at, already have your nose moving just as it get to that point, and when stall hits your engine weight will RIP that nose down, power up and off/down you go.
Sadly double engines planes can do hammer heads very easly, if you have a double control stick like i do for Rpm.

The thing that stops people from doing the hammer head is keeping full or higher engine power at the end of the stall, they reach stall then try to get the nose to fall left or right, by then its too late no air speed over wings, the tourque kicks in and you spin down. Realy its just a directionaly controlled stall.

PS. the P39 does AWESOME hammer heads with easy with or without stalling. ;)
Something about slappin' that rudder hard and the momentum carrying the engine/tail right over your head, sure the comin' down's hell, but the flip is quick and effective.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: kilz on April 17, 2008, 02:08:44 PM
I know I have done them in the RV, P51,SPIT, KI,A6M5, not sure I have had any It could not be done, some are much more difficult than others.

Also can you describe exactly what you think a Hammer head is?




agreed on P51 Spit and RV but have not tried the KI and A6M5 yet
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 17, 2008, 02:53:26 PM
and twin engine planes need to have engine's managed while proceeding thru the turn.





I've never had to "manage" my engines when doing a hammerhead, there is no need to.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Solar10 on April 17, 2008, 06:43:05 PM
If you had gone to the last convention (or heard the recording), you'd know HiTech doesn't play AH. :D

Well it's his $15 a month... oh no wait! :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: mechanic on April 20, 2008, 09:08:06 AM
thoughs were pretty nice.  :aok can u do them in any other plane?


hey Tr1gg. this was from AvA the other night.

http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/P38hmmr.ahf  - FILM 1 min


P38 deffending ki84 hammer head in combat. provides a winning shot from complete disadvantage. Venom infact denies me a kill shot and went on to win after a 3 minute fight but that would make the file alot bigger. It was a very good fight after this clip.
 
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Tr1gg22 on April 20, 2008, 04:14:18 PM
well ty for the film very nice.. :aok
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Ghosth on April 20, 2008, 10:12:00 PM
D3a1 is my favorite, although p38 & Rv8 are almost as good.
Learning when to time your kick when the airspeed is in the sweet spot is the hard part.
That and  control  it so you don't get 90 or more degrees of  rotation or spiral as the nose drops.
Torque likes to spin the bird around on you as your coming over the top.

Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: jdbecks on May 12, 2009, 07:25:33 AM
I found this video which is quite usefull, this has the written explaination and the video to go with it

http://www.fightercombat.com/pages/vid_hammerhead.html




Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: thndregg on May 12, 2009, 07:28:47 AM
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2008
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Masherbrum on May 12, 2009, 02:19:06 PM
I know I have done them in the RV, P51,SPIT, KI,A6M5, not sure I have had any It could not be done, some are much more difficult than others.

Also can you describe exactly what you think a Hammer head is?




Ditto.   

When the Canyon Fights would go on in the Original Pizza, I did them OFTEN in a Spit I and V.  As well as the La7.   
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: waystin2 on May 12, 2009, 02:22:44 PM
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/waystin2/NecroBumpBatman.jpg)
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: jdbecks on May 12, 2009, 04:16:42 PM
Im guess im the only one who uses the search function then  :uhoh
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Bosco123 on May 12, 2009, 04:40:14 PM
Yep. Get blamed for bumping a post, then get call out for not using the search feature. It's a tough crowd.  :rolleyes:

<S>
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: ink on May 12, 2009, 04:52:10 PM
I am glad he bumped this, I remember a few years ago I was fighting a P-38, I was following him up, knew I had the momentum, at the point I knew I couldn't push it further, here comes this 38 straight down at me 

I was like " what the bleepin bleeper, bleep. bleeper... Hack"   :rofl

no roll, wing over, nothin.  I had no clue as to what he did, now I do, thank you to the Bumper of posts :aok

guess what I am gonna be doing for the next couple hours?(hopefully nobody walks in... oh wait get your minds out of the gutter, walks in for a Tat...:-)
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: mensa180 on May 12, 2009, 05:39:19 PM
Here's my best out of three real fast in the TA. 

http://www.2shared.com/file/5746103/2cf5e2a9/hammerhead_perhaps.html (http://www.2shared.com/file/5746103/2cf5e2a9/hammerhead_perhaps.html)
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: jdbecks on May 12, 2009, 06:22:14 PM
that video of yours makes it look so easy  :aok

at the moment Im trying to do it in the 109 K4 and 109 G14, just as im at the top I slam the rudder full left and pushing forward on my stick but I end up dropping a wing a spinning down  :(
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: mechanic on May 12, 2009, 06:30:00 PM
Dont slam the controls at all. 109s are nimble it only needs a light touch to start gravity doing the job for you.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: StokesAk on May 12, 2009, 06:51:05 PM
I do them all the time in the 38. I tend to cut my engine out the way i want to turn and go full rudder. with some flaps.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: jdbecks on May 13, 2009, 07:45:54 AM
I done one today!  :rock :rock

I was flying a 109k4 and had a F4U on my 6 and I had more E, I went up in the vertical with the f4u following me up, I kept her quite still till she was just over 0mph, gently applied left rudder and she moved round nice and smooth, the f4u stalled out about 400m behind me, I can down got the plane in my target and fired...although I missed  :lol.

was a great feeling just a shame I missed when I fired :D that 30mm would have blew him apart
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: ink on May 13, 2009, 12:20:04 PM
damn it all, this is not easy
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: B4Buster on May 13, 2009, 12:35:27 PM
I do it all the time with my 38. Dual throttles makes it alot easier. Like some guys have said in this thread...some are prettier than others.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: B4Buster on May 13, 2009, 01:00:26 PM
Jumped in the MA and did one real quick:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=0c2748c489675e74b94117dade8fc295d2e015f3d2660829ce018c8114394287 (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=0c2748c489675e74b94117dade8fc295d2e015f3d2660829ce018c8114394287)
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: jdbecks on May 13, 2009, 01:53:46 PM
Nice b4buster   :aok
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Stoney on May 13, 2009, 05:31:50 PM
Try doing them with the combat trim off.  You don't get the computer putting all sorts of nose-up trim on as you approach the stall.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: jdbecks on May 13, 2009, 05:40:17 PM
nice tip! Ill try that next time im on   :aok
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: hitech on May 13, 2009, 07:43:38 PM
Try doing them with the combat trim off.  You don't get the computer putting all sorts of nose-up trim on as you approach the stall.

Reminds me of getting my thumb on the up trim button in my RV during hammer heads with out noticing. Makes you push really hard forward on the way down. First time it happened scared me.

HiTech
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Banshee7 on May 13, 2009, 08:09:43 PM
Those that can fly real aircraft....i envy you 
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: B4Buster on May 13, 2009, 08:48:16 PM
I know you're capable of piloting a plane Banshee
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Banshee7 on May 13, 2009, 09:15:21 PM
I know you're capable of piloting a plane Banshee

pfft...i get in the cockpit and see all those buttons...i throw in the towel  :lol
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: B4Buster on May 13, 2009, 10:13:09 PM
pfft...i get in the cockpit and see all those buttons...i throw in the towel  :lol

Well what type of plane are you talking about? Little 2 seaters are pretty straight forward.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Banshee7 on May 13, 2009, 10:14:40 PM
Well what type of plane are you talking about? Little 2 seaters are pretty straight forward.

My whole life I've only ever SAT in one aircraft's cockpit (a little 2-seater) and I was in the 5th grade then.  I've never even been off the ground.

Just getting the opportunity to even try to fly one would be awesome
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: B4Buster on May 13, 2009, 10:18:26 PM
It's a blast. call up your local airport. Alot of places will offer an hour for $50 or so. It's great to see the familiar places in your community from the air. Flight time is more expensive if you decided to get your license...belive it's around $100/hr and you need 35-40 hours of flight time.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Banshee7 on May 13, 2009, 10:24:44 PM
It's a blast. call up your local airport. Alot of places will offer an hour for $50 or so. It's great to see the familiar places in your community from the air. Flight time is more expensive if you decided to get your license...belive it's around $100/hr and you need 35-40 hours of flight time.


oooooooooorr....call up my state trooper friend that owns a two seater and see if he'll take me up.  Why did i just think of this now...man im such an idiot  <searches for face palm smiley>
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: SectorNine50 on May 13, 2009, 10:41:46 PM
I always seem to end up doing hammerheads by accident in stall fights in the B-pony.  It's usually because I've chopped my throttle and am ruddering to keep from winging over and stalling and it tends to just fall sideways beautifully.  One time, however, I had it where the plane did half of the hammerhead, and then just fell to the earth sideways.  Have never been able to replicate it, was a very strange spectacle from the cockpit view.  Must've started doing the "hammerhead" after I was a bit too slow.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: rvflyer on May 13, 2009, 11:11:25 PM
My whole life I've only ever SAT in one aircraft's cockpit (a little 2-seater) and I was in the 5th grade then.  I've never even been off the ground.

Just getting the opportunity to even try to fly one would be awesome


Come to Oregon, I well take you for a ride in my RV-6 for free, hope you have the stomach for aerobatics :-)

RV6Flyer
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: rvflyer on May 13, 2009, 11:21:42 PM
Reminds me of getting my thumb on the up trim button in my RV during hammer heads with out noticing. Makes you push really hard forward on the way down. First time it happened scared me.

HiTech

When I was learning them in my RV-6 got to slow at the top and and just barely made it around (lucky no tailslide) and just had to sit there and wait till the nose came down and got some flying speed. Without an inverted fuel system the engine quit and prop stopped, with the original wood props on RV's it is hard to air start without a lot of speed,
finally had to hit the starter button to get the engine turning again.

RV6flyer
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Scotch on May 13, 2009, 11:41:53 PM

Come to Oregon, I well take you for a ride in my RV-6 for free, hope you have the stomach for aerobatics :-)

RV6Flyer

You ever be interested in trading a plane ride for a commercial fishing boat ride?<g>  :pray
See who can make the other sick the quickest?  :aok
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: oakranger on May 14, 2009, 01:22:02 PM
You can't do it in a P-38, A-20, or 110 by cutting power in one engine and full power on the other?
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: mechanic on May 14, 2009, 01:28:12 PM
You ever be interested in trading a plane ride for a commercial fishing boat ride?<g>  :pray
See who can make the other sick the quickest?  :aok

:D plane ride can make you sick at the touch of the controls, ships need wind! I'm putting my money on the plane ride unless you go out in a gale force wind.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: B4Buster on May 14, 2009, 02:52:50 PM
You can't do it in a P-38, A-20, or 110 by cutting power in one engine and full power on the other?

watch my video. When you go to try it in a 110, Moss, etc just remember the props aren't counter-rotating
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 14, 2009, 02:59:35 PM
You can't do it in a P-38, A-20, or 110 by cutting power in one engine and full power on the other?

you can but it's not necessary to do one properly.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Scotch on May 14, 2009, 03:11:15 PM
:D plane ride can make you sick at the touch of the controls, ships need wind! I'm putting my money on the plane ride unless you go out in a gale force wind.

Try bar crossings. :)
(http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/12/l_3632bb6e541a4e8887ce8d0d781db3ae.jpg)

(http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/16/l_ed0d16b254c448aa827b42003d9cc2a2.jpg)

no more thread hijacking though...but i want a plane ride!  :D
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: mechanic on May 14, 2009, 06:17:33 PM
Pretty choppy, not mid atlantic though. Still fatal if you fell overboard i imagine  :O
Seagulls are a heart warming sight for any sea voyage.

I want the plane ride too :D im sure a pilot would make me sick more consitently than any skipper.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: rvflyer on May 14, 2009, 07:08:02 PM
You ever be interested in trading a plane ride for a commercial fishing boat ride?<g>  :pray
See who can make the other sick the quickest?  :aok

Betting you could Scotch, went out of Pacfic City in a Dory one time and it was not pleasent.:)

What part of Oregon?
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Dadsguns on May 18, 2009, 01:37:31 PM
you can but it's not necessary to do one properly.

ack-ack

I take it that the stall limiter should not be enabled?  Will that make it easier?

Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Shuffler on May 18, 2009, 01:40:11 PM
I take it that the stall limiter should not be enabled?  Will that make it easier?



Good question. I've never flown with the stall limiter on as it is a handicap in a stall fighter.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: hitech on May 18, 2009, 02:08:59 PM
When I was learning them in my RV-6 got to slow at the top and and just barely made it around (lucky no tailslide) and just had to sit there and wait till the nose came down and got some flying speed. Without an inverted fuel system the engine quit and prop stopped, with the original wood props on RV's it is hard to air start without a lot of speed,
finally had to hit the starter button to get the engine turning again.

RV6flyer

That does sound like a pucker moment.

Why did you not put the flop tube in? It is easy when building, pain in the but post build.

Do you now have a constant speed prop? If so , just making sure you are aware of over speed possibility at zero g's.

HiTech



Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 18, 2009, 02:54:25 PM
I take it that the stall limiter should not be enabled?  Will that make it easier?



I'm sure you can do it while it's enabled but never have flown with it enabled so I can't say for 100%.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: Scotch on May 18, 2009, 11:18:46 PM
Pretty choppy, not mid atlantic though. Still fatal if you fell overboard i imagine  :O
Seagulls are a heart warming sight for any sea voyage.
:rolleyes:



went out of Pacfic City in a Dory one time and it was not pleasent.:)

What part of Oregon?

The Pacific City dory's are pretty cool! :aok
We have one but it's pretty much retired to sit in front of our shop now.
Did you do the whole beach launch into the surf?

I'm down in Newport. We used to go to the airshow over in Hilsboro all the time.  :aok
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: froger on May 19, 2009, 12:09:58 AM
Hammerhead Maneuver

http://www.fightercombat.com/clips/hammerhead_high.wmv


and there it is    :aok
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: rvflyer on May 19, 2009, 06:56:01 PM
That does sound like a pucker moment.

Why did you not put the flop tube in? It is easy when building, pain in the but post build.

Do you now have a constant speed prop? If so , just making sure you are aware of over speed possibility at zero g's.

HiTech






Wished many times I had installed the flop tube, but still don't have one. I did change out the wood prop for a Sensenich metel fixed
which is much easier to air start with.
Title: Re: Is a real hammerhead possible?
Post by: rvflyer on May 19, 2009, 07:01:45 PM
:rolleyes:



The Pacific City dory's are pretty cool! :aok
We have one but it's pretty much retired to sit in front of our shop now.
Did you do the whole beach launch into the surf?

I'm down in Newport. We used to go to the airshow over in Hillsboro all the time.  :aok

Yup did the beach launch, never again for me:) I use to exhibit my RV-6 at the Hillsboro airshow
 in the homebuilt/experimental aircraft section you may have seen it there.