Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: DCCBOSS on April 18, 2008, 04:31:24 PM
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How many of you guys use rudder pedals, and if you do how do you think it has helped increase your kill rate since you start using them what type of rudder pedal do you think are the best overall. :salute
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When you first get pedals they'll take some getting used to, so your kill rate will probably go down. I know mine did. :lol But the more you play the better you'll get, so who knows. What I like about pedals the most is it takes rudder and brake controls out of your hand and puts them at your feet where they should be.
I've had Saitek pedals for a couple of years now with no problems at all. But if these ever wear out I'll go with CH products because everyone I've talked to say they last forever..and they're cheaper.
The Saitek pedals have a knob to adjust the tension which was a selling point for me. CH didn't offer that.
Rudder pedals are great and I'll never go back to a twisty stick again. :salute
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Rudder pedals are great and I'll never go back to a twisty stick again. :salute
Quoted for truth.
I rammed everything I dove on for over 3 months when I got pedals. Any bomber formation had nothing to fear other than ram damage :lol
[EDIT: I should clarify: The ramming was unintentional!!!]
That's because I was still learning how to coordinate with them. I've been flying a long time with them now, and I won't go back to twisty if I can help it. It's just so much better (specifically not screwing up X and Y while moving Z, or screwing up Z while moving X and Y)
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When you first get pedals they'll take some getting used to, so your kill rate will probably go down.
Yup.
One of the great things you can do with pedals is making shots when you're really close, say, inside of 100 yards. At the distance, small movements by the enemy become too great to compensate for in the heat of the moment, unless you can stomp on the rudder when necessary to make your shot.
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I have been flying since the original AcesHigh, and have never used rudder at all. No twist stick, no pedals, I just fly with a mouse. It has worked fine for me and I doubt I will ever add rudder. I am not saying that they help, I just do not devote enough time to spend the money.
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Yup, fly with CH non-pro pedals on a USB converter. Just about always had pedals - cant imagine life without em.
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Quoted for truth.
I rammed everything I dove on for over 3 months when I got pedals. Any bomber formation had nothing to fear other than ram damage :lol
[EDIT: I should clarify: The ramming was unintentional!!!]
That's because I was still learning how to coordinate with them. I've been flying a long time with them now, and I won't go back to twisty if I can help it. It's just so much better (specifically not screwing up X and Y while moving Z, or screwing up Z while moving X and Y)
same here, I started to get outright furious with mine, I think the pedal learning curve is proportional to how long you have been using a twist stick.. the longer you've been twisting, the longer it will take to get used to pedals..
that said, if you gave me a twisty stick now, i would probably throw it at you.
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I bought a used set of gameport Pro Pedals way back in AirWarrior and recently modded them to USB. When I got my USB joystick before I modded the rudders I didnt remove them.
I occasionally found myslef with feet on the inoperative pedals wondering why my rudder wasn't working :lol
Tried a twisty and just couldn't get the hang of them. Pedals all the way for me. That twisty Saitek was canabalized to mod the CH pedals.
Of all the controllers I've had they did take the longest time to get used to them when I first got them though.
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I did when I flew, and they didn't help much at all. Better than using a twisty though.
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How many of you guys use rudder pedals, and if you do how do you think it has helped increase your kill rate since you start using them what type of rudder pedal do you think are the best overall. :salute
when i started in here i had a ms sindewinder twisty stick....felt like i wasn't getting enough rudder.......switched to ch stuff...including rudder pedals.......much more precise, more travel, and it feels as if i can do more with them........
<S>>
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rudder pedals are the way to go for sure !!!
i used a saitek evo for 3 years, when i switched to the pedals it was a squeak, but so worth it, my hit % was in the 3% range now its 5-6%, been using them for about 8 months,
get em soooooooooooooooo worth it
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Like others have said get pedals. Yes you are going to have to re-learn how to fly with them, but once you get use to them you will wonder how you ever got along with out them. They add a level of control that you can't get with a twisty, and almost every airplane ever produced has them.
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After buying them & learning how to use them I will never go back to a twisty stick.
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Side note: Don't be intimidated by price. Find a used set!
I'm using CH non-Pro analog pedals that I use with a gameport joystick.*
*= They don't work with MS Prec Pros, the stick I use, so I hard wired them into my second gameport, stick goes into the first! Problem solved.
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CH Pro Pedals here..... will never go back.
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In AH fighters have autocoordinated rudder so you don't actually need rudder to fly normally. Bombers lack autocoordination so rudder is needed.
However rudders are useful in fighters for:
1) keeping the plane aligned with the runway on takeoff, especially when the runway is moving (CVs)
2) yawing the plane for a gun solution (I see a lot of people do this, I never bother)
3) bleeding energy on landing with extreme yaw (side slip), but I think the standard military approach is better (break turn)
4) increasing the rate of roll (snap roll)
I'm curious: what else do you guys use rudder for?
I find rudder pedals to be a bit annoying solely because I sit in a chair with wheels and pushing on the pedals causes me to roll away from the computer ;)
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if you don't use rudder pedals and go up against someone who does, if your skills are equal, plane relative equal, alt equal, you will lose every time.
infinite more control over plane, ALSO say all the above is true and you fight some one who flies with stall limiter off but you fly with it on you will lose EVERY TIME!!!! again more control over the plane!! the more you have control the better you will become!!!
unless of course you have the mentality of 80% of those who fly in MA, you don't need rudder or stall limiter, to pick and run!!
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I agree with ink... rudder control is a critical control surface for any aircraft.
Can you fly without it? Sure.
Can you fly WELL without it? Well that's all relative. Again, against someone as experienced as you and as skilled as you WITH ruder... well then no, but against one of these NOOBS that only know HO or BNZ tactics... then yes!
I was used to the rudder 'rocker' on my X-45 (I never have cared for twisty sticks), and that in addition to my limited real life flying experience in a Cessna 172 (I have about.. three or four unofficial flight hours, three take-offs and two landings)... well when I updated to an X52 and my pedals it just came natural and no adjustment time was needed. But I can completely understand how this would be the case for someone who is used to a twisty... or used to not using rudder at all!
Once my pedals broke and I re-assigned my twisty as rudder.. just so I could finish off the evening and THAT I just couldn't get used to.. some of the worst flying I've done in ages! (Although I did manage to get three kills like that).
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CH pro pedals wouldn't fly with out them now. took about 2-4 weeks of ramming into the back of people trying to make a shot but it only gets better from then on :aok
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Darn, I ordered CH FS, pedals and Throttle but then canceled them. But they said they couldn't cancel them but then did. So I guess I will order them again.
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Rudder Pedals.......Only way to fly! :aok
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In AH fighters have autocoordinated rudder so you don't actually need rudder to fly normally.
While the uses you list are good, this statement is flat out wrong.
AH does not auto-coordinate. If you don't control the rudder it sits neutral.
What AH has is combat trim. This will set rudder to the best position to keep your nose pointed forward based on your speed, assuming you're in level flight. However, the rudder settings for normal flight aren't always the best when pulling Gs and mixing it up, so you WILL see the slip indicator ball flying all over the place.
If AH had auto-coordination, the ball would never move from the centered location, ever.
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While the uses you list are good, this statement is flat out wrong.
AH does not auto-coordinate. If you don't control the rudder it sits neutral.
What AH has is combat trim. This will set rudder to the best position to keep your nose pointed forward based on your speed, assuming you're in level flight. However, the rudder settings for normal flight aren't always the best when pulling Gs and mixing it up, so you WILL see the slip indicator ball flying all over the place.
If AH had auto-coordination, the ball would never move from the centered location, ever.
Too much tech for me Krusty.
However, I did just order the Ch pedals, Stick, and throttle. Gulp, that's not cheap. But after this thread and watching Dogfights on the History channel I was overwhelmed.
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While the uses you list are good, this statement is flat out wrong.
AH does not auto-coordinate. If you don't control the rudder it sits neutral.
What AH has is combat trim. This will set rudder to the best position to keep your nose pointed forward based on your speed, assuming you're in level flight. However, the rudder settings for normal flight aren't always the best when pulling Gs and mixing it up, so you WILL see the slip indicator ball flying all over the place.
If AH had auto-coordination, the ball would never move from the centered location, ever.
I said that because: 1) I saw it mentioned on the BBS, perhaps by someone from HTC, maybe not and 2) fighters show essentially no ball movement in simple turns while bombers show significant ball movement and require the rudder to recenter the ball. However, 1) might have been from someone who was in error and 2) might be due to the different aerodynamics of bombers vs fighters that necessitate much more rudder for standard turns. Since I don't really know why rudder is required in a coordinated turn, I am likely wrong.
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I've been flying with CH Pro Rudders scince the gameport days. I love'em. Now I'm running CH PRO USB. I just gave my gameport rudders to H338.
Spatula:
What gameport to usb adapter did you use? And where did ya get it?
Wabbit
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Could a CH pedal system work with a Saitek X-52 and throttle system? Probably gonna get a saitek pedal system but thought I should ask anyway.
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same here, I started to get outright furious with mine, I think the pedal learning curve is proportional to how long you have been using a twist stick.. the longer you've been twisting, the longer it will take to get used to pedals..
that said, if you gave me a twisty stick now, i would probably throw it at you.
I'm in trouble, been using twisty stick for 12 years. Did have a short treacherous period using the mouse. My Ch Products are otw. Wish me luck!
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Could a CH pedal system work with a Saitek X-52 and throttle system? Probably gonna get a saitek pedal system but thought I should ask anyway.
You can use any compination of controllers in AH2. The game doesnt care who build them ;)
I'm using a combination of X45 throttle, Cyborg 3D Gold Joystick, Simped pro USB pedals, TrackIr4 as my input devices.
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Best rudder setups in my opinion...NON-MODIFIED
Simped
CH
Saitek
MODIFIED (but I haven't see any of the others modified.)
TM RCS with Hall Sensor and Toe Brake modifications
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Could a CH pedal system work with a Saitek X-52 and throttle system? Probably gonna get a saitek pedal system but thought I should ask anyway.
X52 pro, CH pedals here
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Spatula:
What gameport to usb adapter did you use? And where did ya get it?
Its a 'rockfire' usb adapter. Its small and blue, with a 4-mode switch on the top. I run it in mode 1 - 4 axis, 4 button stick mode. Windows thinks its a 4axis, 4 button stick, but only one axis is 'working' - eg my rudder axis. AH thinks the same and is content as well. Works perfectly.
Cant remember where i got it now - was many moons ago. Think radioshack (or equiv) will sort you out with something.
EDIT: this is my one - http://www.usbgear.com/computer_cable_details.cfm?sku=ijoy1&cats=106&catid=626
Spat.
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Just saw this on ebay too:
http://cgi.ebay.com/CH-Products-Pro-Rudder-Pedals-w-USB-adapter_W0QQitemZ280231270745QQihZ018QQcategoryZ31215QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Just out of interest, did anyone else find the 'push left, go left' set up on rudders totally counterintuitive?
Took me long time to get used to that - for some reason I figured pushing the left pedal should have resulted in me yawing right. Almost considered reversing the axis at one point.
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That wouldn't make much sense to me.
That would be like turning the wheel on a car right and expecting it to go left.
left = left, right = right. Same way the stick works. Left rudder with left stick, right rudder with right stick.
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I think it came from driving: in a car, to turn right, you extend (i.e push) your left arm and bring in your right. I was translating the same movements to the rudder pedals.
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I thought the same thing Wooley. My first attempted take off was a total failure :lol
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I think the same thing Wooley. It may be that we are so into the game that we brace ourselves for a left turn with our right leg.
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This is fascinating. When I first read Wooley's remark I thought "who could think that?" I've been sitting in cockpits and hanging around airplanes a good part of my life and I guess I just learned at an early age which way the pedals move. I have to admit after hearing your guys' take on this that it makes a lot of sense. That's the real value of a community like this. There are things which you just think are "right" and you never entertain any other perspective. I am surprised at how narrow my thinking can be. :o
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Quoted for truth.
I rammed everything I dove on for over 3 months when I got pedals. Any bomber formation had nothing to fear other than ram damage :lol
[EDIT: I should clarify: The ramming was unintentional!!!]
That's because I was still learning how to coordinate with them. I've been flying a long time with them now, and I won't go back to twisty if I can help it. It's just so much better (specifically not screwing up X and Y while moving Z, or screwing up Z while moving X and Y)
Ditto. I have CH Pro Pedals and will ram buffs from time to time. I'm almost out of the woods with them.
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Yup, fly with CH non-pro pedals on a USB converter. Just about always had pedals - cant imagine life without em.
On this note, when I bought my new computer so I could play AH, I had an old CH Combat Stick and CH Pedals I had used in AW. Much to my horror, when I got my computer it had an onboard sound card with no port to plug my stick and pedals into. I purchased a new stick/throttle (Saitek X52 Pro) which connected via USB. I did want to sink a lot of money into a new sound card, the cost of a good sound card with the port was roughly the same as the new stick/throttle. I was told there was no converter that would change the plug on my joystick (I think it's called a midi port?) to USB. Is this the converter of which you speak Spatula? And, if so where can I get one? I'd still love to hook my pedals up and disable the twisty stick feature.
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Ooops, nevermind Spatula just read your post at the top of this page..... Thanks
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If you take a look at that ebay auction you will see that he has pro pedals and he got the toe-brakes working as well, by connecting as described here:
They use a 15-pin gameport connection, but a USB adapter is included that allows full functionality of the pedals, including the toe brakes. By connecting the Joystick port to the Aux port on the pedal cables, the pedals appear as a 3-axis device through the USB converter!
heres a pic:
(http://i23.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/f3/c7/2408_1.JPG)
you could use another converter for your stick, but you will not get full functionality from it. Another alternative is to use Leo Bodnar's USB conversion chip and wire it up yourself.
http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/joystick/
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This is fascinating. When I first read Wooley's remark I thought "who could think that?"
Here's another way to think about it. Imagine you have a model of your aircraft sitting on top of your stick. When you move the stick, your aircraft adopts the attitude as the model on top of the stick. Push stick forward - both the model and the actual aircraft adopt a nose down attitude, pull back on stick, nose of aircraft and model point up. Same for left and right movements of the stick.
Now imagine you have a model aircraft mounted on the central pivot point of the rudder pedals. By analogy with the stick, to cause the nose of the aircraft to yaw left, you would carry out whatever movement makes the model's nose point left i.e. push the right pedal.
See where I'm coming from?
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See where I'm coming from?
Absolutely. I thought I was making that point clear. At first, I thought you were crazy (just kidding, not really) and then I realized how you were looking at it. I only thought you were crazy because airplane rudders since the Wright Flyer have always worked the way they do and I'm so locked into them working that way that I refused to see things any other way. It's a little bit like the "QWERTY" keyboard that was invented to keep typists from typing too fast and jamming the equipment. When they tried to present a non-QWERTY, no one wanted it because it "just wasn't right." Beta-Max - VHS sort of thing I guess.
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. It's a little bit like the "QWERTY" keyboard that was invented to keep typists from typing too fast and jamming the equipment. When they tried to present a non-QWERTY, no one wanted it because it "just wasn't right."
Mine is QWERTZ... :noid
But back on topic, when I got my pedals I too had to think a few moments about which way to set them up. Never having piloted a real plane I tried both ways, but I quickly came to the conclusion that the "correct" way is also the most intuitive to me.
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The way I thought of it when I first started flying the 'puter is...left foot go left, right foot go right.
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Absolutely. I thought I was making that point clear.
Sorry - you were making it clear. Didn't mean anything by my last post other than to explain my initial backwards thinking.
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Wooley,
Oh man. I didn't mean to sound confrontational. I should have said something like "I was trying to make that point clear." I just didn't want you to think I was trying to look down my nose at you or anything is all.
Boy, you really have to be careful with the written word. I'll have to read over my wording more carefully before submitting to make sure I'm coming across the way I want to.
Sorry bout that