Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MrCoffee on April 19, 2008, 04:18:52 AM
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At the moment, Im not sure. I havent watched F1 in a while without falling asleep or waking to find the race was over. I personally do not like the current rule set and think alot of changes need to be made. Perhaps its too modern and has lost its classical sportsmen element and is not as much entertainment as it was before 1994. Alonso did have alot of talent, I thought I saw that or think I did. I would say Alonso, does he still drive? Some things I would like to see change.
definately reduce the current wheel base, current cars handle in unsportsmanlike manner, see below.
reduced aerodynamics, see above (most road cars dont have a wing)
slicks or racing type tires again. would like to see some passing and hero over taking maneuvers (mansell vs senna, whens the last time that happened. it cant because the cars will go into the grass).
new brake technology rules (brakes are almost perfected on current rules), see below (reduce rotor, component weight yet increase safety requirements for components, depending on material of construction)
enforce more strict rules on specific components focusing on weight reduction, yet increasing strength, reducing cost etc... get creative
different rule requirements for materials etc (tried tested vs cutting edge) ...
if they keep the technology as is, reduce the max weight, dimensions of the cars overall
maintain structural safety rules or increase crash test standard, see above
new rules for alternative fuels or engine types
I could go on and on but I would like to see F1 return to an entertainment value it once had yet continue in technological improvment.
etc... F1 has lost its entertainment value, for me. Nobody ever passes, Yawn.
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and its not that the drivers are less in quality. They dont have the same situations or rules to race with as drivers did in the past. my 2cnts.
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what all of this does in my opinion.
causes cars to increase distance in braking while the engineers think of better ways to design brakes and other components
reduce aerodynamics which slaves the cars to a performance envelope wich affects tire design and driver decisions
allows tires to change in design causing drivers to get brave again in overtaking or other maneuvers
reduces performance of various car systems by weight/rules/material choice creating more grey area in performance allowing drivers to race with each other again. check out NASCAR or NHRA.
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NASCAR and F1 are based on the same principles - Aero, and race management
While I agree on are reduction on aero and the reintroduction of mechanical traction (ie. slicks in '09) - there is still plenty of racing in F1...
O/T Best driver prob currently Kimi, although Kubica, Hiedfeld, and Trulli are having a good year
Tronsky
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I first started watching F1 in the late 70's when It was wild and wooly. The teams were not so restricted in what they produced. Anyone remember the 6 wheel Tyrrell?
I feel that instead of more rule they should go the other way. As far as the engine, brakes and aero, I think the teams should be given more latitude in those regards.
I think removing traction control was a good thing for F1. Let the drivers drive that car, not the computer. Remember the battles between Senna, and Prost they are legendary and they were very exciting, and they were both real car control drivers
This is F1 after all. It is suppose to be the pinnacle of auto racing.
As far as the best driver in F1 right now I would have to say Kimi.
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Last fun driver was eddie irvine.
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What i want in F1 is:
Smaller wings and slicks with better grip. This allows for the car behind to get closer to the one in front because airflow is less critial. This should lead to more overtaking.
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last year Kimi won the Championship, so he is still the F1 World Champion,
and you have to be a damn good racer to win it.
As for the new rules, i doubt it will change something big. I watch F1 since 1989, they changed this
and that, removed this and added that, in the end every F1 pilot drives under the same
condition against the others in one saison, it doesent matter that much.
At the end of the Year the one with the most points is teh king !! ;)
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I have never watched a formula 1 race
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Shuffler, your loss ;)
I also have to say , Kimi.
Naturally I can be accused of national bias, but still that is my imression pretty much because of his straight forward no hazzle attitude. He just concentrates on driving and that's it. He may be far from the "best driver" for a team if all the promotional etc issues are regarded. His voice breaks, he speaks broken english, he likes ot party and is likely to cause some embarrasments once in a while.
But just as a driver only, he rules.
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#1 - Fangio. :)
Nilsen, I agree, and there is too many little winglets.
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#1 - Fangio. :)
Nilsen, I agree, and there is too many little winglets.
Ah see, I thought MrCoffee was talking about current drivers. If it is all time then of course it is M. Shumacher. Seven driver titles, and five of those in a row.
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Ok, scratch some my comments on brakes etc... However its obvious that if modern F1 cars can stop in two seconds from 150mph. that doesnt leave much road for passing or sportsmanship like racing. They should also get rid of some of the elect gadets and communications that go on during the races. Definately reduce wheelbase some how and aerodynamics for more mechanical grip. the modern elect age of F1 has over shadowed the drivers performance.
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If it is all time then of course it is M. Shumacher. Seven driver titles, and five of those in a row.
Shumacher is exceptional and one of the best if not best with most titles. however keep in mind, the gay team/driver rules at ferrari where theyre not allowed to race each other. senna and prost were bitter rivals and I think the three of them are all in the same category of rare talent. Both senna or prost could have accomplished the same thing in the same situation, vice versa. edit: I'll add that mansell was also exceptional, perhaps better than many of the modern drivers today or recent years. 1 title (not counting indy) and many close ones because he had to contend with prost then senna.
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by a tivo then get a 25cc superkart. who cares if you fall asleep you can watch it again.
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If it is all time then of course it is M. Shumacher.
Disagree. Fangio.
Closely followed by Sterling Moss.
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According to Autocar, in history it's
1. Stirling Moss
2. Jimmy Clark
3. Ayrton Senna
4. Alain Prost
5. Alberto Ascari
6. Juan-Manuel Fangio
7. Bernd Rosemeyer
8. Jackie Stewart
9. Tazio Nuvolari
10. Mika Häkkinen
11. Michael Schumacher
12. Gilles Villeneuve
13. Chris Amon
14. Tony Brooks
15. Carlos Reutemann
16. Achille Varzi
17. Emerson Fittipaldi
18. Jack Brabham
19. Mario Andretti
20. Niki Lauda
I would swap the first two around.
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According to Autocar, in history it's
1. Stirling Moss
2. Jimmy Clark
3. Ayrton Senna
4. Alain Prost
5. Alberto Ascari
6. Juan-Manuel Fangio
7. Bernd Rosemeyer
8. Jackie Stewart
9. Tazio Nuvolari
10. Mika Häkkinen
11. Michael Schumacher
12. Gilles Villeneuve
13. Chris Amon
14. Tony Brooks
15. Carlos Reutemann
16. Achille Varzi
17. Emerson Fittipaldi
18. Jack Brabham
19. Mario Andretti
20. Niki Lauda
I would swap the first two around.
Carp I say Mika Hakkinen ahead of Schumacher. Shumi won one of his titles in a Benetton(sp) for cod sakes. Hakkinen did what exactly, besides retire?
MrCoffee FIY Las Vegas sportsbooks will not take bets on F1 Because of Shumi letting Barrichello(sp) pass for the win at Indy a few years back.
Senna and Prost were great fun to watch, but if you look at all the records Shumacher has, he eclipses them both, as well as Fangio.
I was a big fan of Senna's because he was so intense and I almost quit watching F1 after his death, but I had been watching Shumacher come up and he kept me in it.
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Shumacher is exceptional and one of the best if not best with most titles. however keep in mind, the gay team/driver rules at ferrari where theyre not allowed to race each other. senna and prost were bitter rivals and I think the three of them are all in the same category of rare talent. Both senna or prost could have accomplished the same thing in the same situation, vice versa. edit: I'll add that mansell was also exceptional, perhaps better than many of the modern drivers today or recent years. 1 title (not counting indy) and many close ones because he had to contend with prost then senna.
Schumacher's abilities never approached Senna's.
1. Senna
2. Fangio
Everyone else.
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MrCoffee FIY Las Vegas sportsbooks will not take bets on F1 Because of Shumi letting Barrichello(sp) pass for the win at Indy a few years back.
Actually Hakkinen and Coulthard pulled that trick earlier in '98 Australia, and the year before that in Jerez
Early '07 the fastest all time according to F1 Racing magazine were: (the top 25 out of 50)
1. Ayrton Senna
2. Michael Schumacher
3. Jim Clark
4. Nigel Mansell
5. Ronnie Peterson
6. Juan Manuel Fangio
7. Mika Hakkinen
8. Fernando Alonso
9. Sir Jackie Stewart
10. Jochen Rindt
11. Gilles Villeneuve
12. Stirling Moss
13. Kimi Raikkonen
14. Alain Prost
15. Nelson Piquet
16. Alberto Ascari
17. Emerson Fittipaldi
18. Niki Lauda
19. Stefan Bellof
20. Keke Rosberg
21. James Hunt
22. Alan Jones
23. Francois Cevert
24. Chris Amon
Tronsky
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Just out of interest, what is it about Finland that lets such a relatively small country produce so many great drivers? Not just in F1, but in WRC as well.
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i dont like this kind of listings, Clark never driven against Senna, or Schumacher, he never raced
agianst Fangio, so this listings are based on what ? pure BS.
Since 1950 only 29 Driver won the World Championship. Those are the best of the best.
But you cant really compare each other as long they dont race togheter.
At the end this is the real thing -> : http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/db/drivers/stats/wcs.php
not based on speculations.
But Fanboys will allways have his own heros.
In the early '90 i was a hughe Senna Fan, and today i like Hamilton alot.
Schumacher was outstanding, very talented driver. He still dont have enough,
now he races Superbikes! imagine that ;)
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if senna had been alive longer i dont think schumacer would have won so many titles.
The new season looks like its going to be goo now traction control and engine breaking have gone.
Kubica and heidfield are the ones to watch at the moment with there BMWS
Kimi has the best car at the moment,but he didnt last year and wouldnt have won if maclaren handent farted around in the last few races.
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68Wooley, there's something about Finns alright. Odd people, aliens maybe :lol
The Autocar list putting Schumacher as No.11 makes the whole list a farce. No way is he below Hakkinen. That judgement is based more on the fact the a lot of people don't like him.
Fangio and Stirling Moss are still No 1 and 2 though. Fangio was extraordinary in that he won all those races and Championship at an age when most modern drivers have retired. He quit racing aged 47.
What I always believe is a pity the way in recent years the new hot driver appears just when the old hot drivers bows out or dies. Schumacher arrived just as Senna is killed. So they never really had a rivalry. Now Hamilton appears just as Schumacher quits. But the jury is still out on Hamilton. He's good but is he great? Time will tell.
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Just out of interest, what is it about Finland that lets such a relatively small country produce so many great drivers? Not just in F1, but in WRC as well.
Must be the Sauna ;)
No way should Schumacher be below Häkkinen. Schumi should be at tha top, point of view (which ever historical comparisons) may shift him between 1st and 3rd, but at top 3 anyways.
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Hamilton is still young and new to the game. I think he will be great - he was only beaten by one point last year after a pretty tumultuous season with lots of distracting off-strack shennanigans.
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I personally don't believe Hamilton had the nerve to win it last year - he was after all a rookie, and a number of times I think the pressure got to him when older cooler heads would've prevailed...China and Brazil were clangers!!
This year I'm not so sure either - but it could be interesting
Tronsky
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Hamilton is still young and new to the game. I think he will be great - he was only beaten by one point last year after a pretty tumultuous season with lots of distracting off-strack shennanigans.
I agree. Hamilton looked mighty impressive.
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Schumacher was Top 10, but not Top 5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA3Hy0pTjNk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA3Hy0pTjNk&feature=related)
What people don't know about Senna's wet track racing is that he DIDN'T use Rain tires. He used the slicks because they didn't have to be changed as often. But with the video when folks realize he was in a GROSSLY UNDERPOWERED Ford powered McLaren and managed to finish 2nd in 1993.
Senna - 65 Poles from 161 races
Schumi - It took him until his 236th race to break it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4uNSYTnhnA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4uNSYTnhnA&feature=related)
Mika embarrassed Schumacher at Spa in 2000.
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Just out of interest, what is it about Finland that lets such a relatively small country produce so many great drivers? Not just in F1, but in WRC as well.
My personal beliefe is that Fins learn great car control from driving in the ice and snow. Being that far north what else is there to do in the winter beside fight, fornicate, and race. (paraphrased from Smokey Yunick)
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Schumacher was Top 10, but not Top 5.
Senna - 65 Poles from 161 races
Schumi - It took him until his 236th race to break it.
Mika embarrassed Schumacher at Spa in 2000.
Ha...Mika gets lucky with a back marker - and thats embarrassing??
Name 1 record Schumacher doesn't have?
Tronsky
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Kovalainen is a promising driver and is much better PR-wise than Räikkönen. But I guess F1 needs it's share of anti-heroes.