Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Special Events General => Topic started by: Vulch on July 18, 2001, 02:25:00 PM
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Well the TOD event sounds like great fun. What a pity that a large part of the AH community will never get to play it! 9pm Eastern is 4 or 5 AM in Europe, so I doubt you will see any European Squads participating? I realise you cant please everyone with timeslots, but this is so typical of Americans not thinking about others in the game. :mad:
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If you knew me you would not have posted that.
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Originally posted by daddog:
If you knew me you would not have posted that.
Well, I don't know you; but I do know that I am not getting up at 4am to participate and I doubt many other EU squads would wish to.
As I said I realise you can't please everyone, but it does seem that more events are slanted to the US than the other way?
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Originally posted by Vulch:
Well, I don't know you;
Perhaps I should add here that this post is nothing personal aimed at daddog, nor is it aimed specifically at AH. It is a trait of online games........unfortunately for Europe.
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Vulch, it is not worth it to you or them if they run a Euro-only event at 5AM OUR time.
They lose sleep, get agitated, and you don't have the numbers to have a good event.
It's a lose/lose situation.
Then when you say "it's so typical of Americans", well you pretty much throw any hope out the door of them WANTING to please you.
You want them to stay up late at night so you can play, but you don't want to stay up late at night so you can play.
That doesn't make any sense to me.
-SW
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But AK and HS were fine for all of us ?
Sw : you are a typical of American :p
(J/K I've yet to meet a typical whatever ;) )
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
You want them to stay up late at night so you can play, but you don't want to stay up late at night so you can play.
I didn't realise US and EU were on opposite sides of the world. I thought we were only 5 hours apart which means times can be arranged to suit most people, with very little effort. No one needs to stay up late?
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Who's "them" that have to sit up for us to have an event?
We're quite capable of running our own, may we have the keys to the arena, please?
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Problem is Seeker, you didn't look at who's on the CM roster.
I believe both Busc and Duckwing6 are Europeans. If you ask them, they may setup an event more suitable to your hours.
Vulch, you said that 9PM Eastern US is 4 or 5 AM European. (I haven't done the calcs, only going by what you said)
In order for it to be more suitable for you, it's less suitable for Americans at the same time.
Anyway you slice it, people are going to lose out unless you run 2 events per day. One at 3PM Eastern US (that's late night European still) and one later in the night for the US players. I'm not sure if the current CM team could keep up with those demands.
I think it would be easier to ask them politely, however, than to instantly bash their efforts and labeling them "typical Americans".
As for Straffo... you're a typical dirty wine drinking Frenchman! ;)
I never got a chance to fly HS or AK, but those had 3PM Eastern US events which would be more suitable to the Europeans. Now the only problem I see with that, is that it's summer time here in the US and I believe also over in most of Europe. At 3PM Eastern US time, people tend to be outside having fun in the sun so that means the CM team would have to stay inside and get pasty skin.
If this were winter, it would be a whole other deal. During wintertime it's much easier to accomodate European times using American CMs.
This is just my take on it. The CM team are generous enough to donate their free time to setup events, be as generous to them and don't be so quick to upset them.
-SW
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but it does seem that more events are slanted to the US than the other way?
That is absurd. Prior to the Friday night Snapshot the ONLY events were Saturday 3 PM Eastern and Sunday 3 PM Eastern. Both are Euro friendly times. As it stands now Friday night is the ONLY event that I would call U.S. Friendly because is the only evening event in the U.S. In fact I had to fight to keep the Saturday Snapshot because the numbers were low, but I wanted a Snapshot just for the Euro crowd. Also both Hostile Shores and Afrika Corps were at times to suit the Euro folks.
Seeker your quite right. You can run your own event. In fact you have "many" Euro CM's who can set it up for you. :) Take a look at the bottom of the events page under "Third Party Events" http://events.hitechcreations.com (http://events.hitechcreations.com)
Off the top of my head last count we had 7 or 8 CM's who live in Europe, 4 in Japan, 1 in Hawaii and the rest are scattered throughout the U.S. mainland. Go look at the CM roster.
Swulfe mentioned that the current CM team could not keep up with having multiple events on a day. He is exactly right. One of my many jobs as a "typical American" heading the weekly events is to schedule the events we have. Those in Europe can't host the Friday night event, but are quite able to host the Saturday or Sunday events because they are Euro friendly times. The "typical Americans" have to host all three.
Not two weeks ago 10bears a "typical American" had to host the Friday night Snapshot, the Saturday Snapshot, and the Sunday Check 6! because other CM's had real live issues. Did I mention he had to set up all three events, stick around to make sure all was running smoothly? Close down the event and then go over the CM logs? Oh ya, he also had to post an AAR in the CM BB. Hours of work enjoyed by many in Europe.
I enjoy what I do, but it sure bites when I see a post like yours vulch. The CM team works hard for everyone in this community. Euro and American alike.
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I'm sorry, but for most events I have to get up at either 6am or early Sunday/Monday.
I'd much rather do that for an event PACKED with people than go for nice times that suit me but that are void of the masses.
You also find in those off-peak times the net access is better, and the missus doesn't get toejamty at ya coz shes snoring her head off while you play.
p.s. anyone want an old obnoxious tiffie pilot for the ToD?
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Vulch,
you kidding? I live in Amsterdam (CET), 10pm EDT is 4am CET and that's the absolute best time for me......cos the girlfriend is asleep and I can get on with shooting down Germans without distraction or complaining. :D
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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I will try to make it, even at 5 a.m. on Saturdays, but given the nature of the event, I will be a walk-on. I can't guarantee I will be present on a regular basis.
Cheers,
Pepe
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Thanks Ddog!
(bloody yank....)
I've approached the CM team in the past about hosting an event, and was basicaly met with "nice try, sonny, don't call us, we'll call you....".
Now, we've all different tastes in events, so how can I push through the event I want, and am willing to plan, organise and look after? After all, if it falls flat on it's face, it's my failure and not the C.M. teams'....
(K.O.T.H. for those that recognise the term...)
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From Vulch (at work)
Originally posted by daddog:
The CM team works hard for everyone in this community.
OK, this is getting out of hand. I apologise to anyone I offended and take back everything I said
...........typical Americans, getting so defensive! THAT WAS A JOKE!
...being a typical Englishman I get everything wrong, cant win at any games we invented, can't win any wars and yes it was really the Americans who captured enigma from the German submarine!
;)
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Originally posted by Vulture:
From Vulch (at work)
...being a typical Englishman I get everything wrong, cant win at any games we invented, can't win any wars and yes it was really the Americans who captured enigma from the German submarine!
;)
LOL! Don't forget the driving and metrics thingy :D
Cheers,
Pepe
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All forgiven vulch. :) I get worked up when I feel the CM team is being criticized. A lot goes on behind the scenes that the average players never know about and they put in a lot of time away from flying.
Seeker just e-mail me, or banana who is the head CM with your write up. :) We will work out the details and look for problems same as the CM's do. When the CM's have an event write up they post it on the CM BB for review. We will do the same for you. :)
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Actually, it's been stated more than once that the first run of the TOD was decided to run on Friday nights at 11pm ET because that's when the average numbers of people online are the highest.
This is just the first run of the TOD. If it really takes off, more than likely they'll move it to a time more friendly to everyone. But wait, that's impossible... We have Asian and Australian players too. ;) Seriously, Rocket (I think it was Rocket) said that if the TOD turns out to be as good as we all think it will be, then they'll see about setting one up for the European based squads. :)
If my squad said we're flying on Saturday at 4 am (yeah right, that'd be 2am for them!) I'd probably whine a lot, but I'd be setting an alarm and waking up. I can always take a nap afterwards. :) As it is now, I usually get about 2 or 3 worknights a week where I don't get as much sleep as I should because I'm 2 hours ahead of just about every one of my squadmates. *shrugs* I figure if I can wake up early (around 5 am) on a Saturday morning and drive 3 hours to go see a college football game, I could do the same to fly an event with my squad. That's just me, though. :D
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Guys,
We do the best we can with handling all the different time and event requests. But given the global nature of this game, there is always someone who is going to have to get up early or stay up late, no matter what time we hold events.
The buck ultimately stops with me on the special events, so criticize me if you want. I learned long ago that you can't please everyone all of the time, so I always try to do the "right" thing.
Seeker, I already posted your event idea on the CM board a long time ago, and it got a lukewarm reception. That's why you haven't seen it hosted or talked about. We're a volunteer organization with a limited number of CM's, so we can't possibly do every event idea, no matter how much we'd like to. We have to make hard choices just like any other organization.
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Thanks banana, I thought it had just died a death.
That said, if your guys don't want it, any reason I can't do it my self?
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Well, this subject came up when we had people interested in the TOD event. Pyro made the call that all special events will be run by the CM team(hence that's why the TOD event is being run by us). If it makes you feel any better, we have been tossing around ideas for a furball type of special event, but we haven't been focusing on it lately. All focus has been on getting the TOD up & running. Once TOD is up & running, I'm sure we'll re-explore the furball idea.
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So you'll call us?
:)
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CM's,
My hats off to you. So you know, the historical arena stuff is my favorite and will always take presedence over MA for me. However, MA is always open and just easier to get to and so I spend most of my time there.
See you all Friday night.
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
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If the 3:00pm is a bad time for the American's then I'll be more than happy to have the 3:00pm slot and let them have the AM slot :) Seriously, weekends are the best times for any kind of scenario and the fact that if people are out enjoying themselves at 3:00pm then that is purely their choice, not the European's fault. So far I have seen more events aimed at North America than I have for Europe; just an observation, not a whine! I'm happy with any time during a normal day - at least 8:00am until around 12:00am (midnight) start times (asuming a 2 hour scenario). I do find the early hours a bit more difficult - gone are they days of AH when I stayed up until 5am on a work day even!
All I ask is a little more consideration, I understand the fabulous work the CMs do, but I don't want to hear 'well you have your Euro CMs', surely an event wants to be attended by as many as possible rather than just a handful?
I enjoyed both AK and HS tremendously and I'll continue to look forward to more... I must agree that these two time slots were more than acceptable for Europeans, imho.
Just my 2 pence worth
Regards
Nexx
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PUNT!!!!!!!!
Go check out the TOD forum. Show your interest by answering the questions in daddogs thread. This will start the ball rolling on the Euro TOD :)
S!
Rocket
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Hmmm, Americans get a TOD automatically, Europeans have to specifically state an interest and provide an alibi, call that equality?
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Ya know vulch you are looking at it the wrong way bro. What I want to know is how the Euros only were slighted by this? The pacific players can't play at this time. It is awefully hard for Japanese, New Zealand, and Australian players to come on Friday nights. Hell look at the people in the states that work nights or evening jobs and can't make a Friday night. Are they squeaking???
This wasn't a rash decision made by the scenerio team but one we labored over for better than a month to hammer out the potiental problems. The time slot was picked ENTIRELY based upon data from HTC about peak usage of the game. It was wanted to make sure that there was a good interest before expanding it to different time zones. Hell the numbers for the snapshots on Sat. are down to around 13 regularly. There are many hours that go into putting something like this together and then get constantly squeaked at no matter what ya do.
The scenerio team ALWAYS tries to make as many ppl happy with the scenerios as possible but I am sorry but you can't please everyone out there. We offer choice in times whenever possible. We try not to discriminate against timezones whenever possible. If there are enough you will see a Sat. Euro playable TOD. If the numbers aren't there then I am sorry.
We have members in the scenerio team from all over the world. Just go look at the list on the events page. We will even help set something up if you want to write it up and give ya pointers on what can or can't be done with the arena.
Again I am sorry you feel slighted, but you need to look at it with narrow eyesight but think of everyone else that can't participate in this first run.
Salute!
Rocket
Proud member of the AH Scenerio Team
AH Training Corp.
VMF-115 =Joe`s Jokers=
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First of all the Saturday snapshot is (I believe, and I may be wrong) on a Saturday afternoon. Not the best time for most people, who are out with their family or shopping, etc!
That aside the problem I have (and this is me personally. not my squad) is that certain fee paying members get automatic scenarios, (or whatever you want to call them) in their own time zone. Other fee paying members have to prove that they are going to turn up before they will even be considered for a scenario. This doesn't sound like equality to me?
Maybe the best approach should have been to organise a scenario (or whatever) within certain time zones and if no one turns up then you dont organise another, alternatively get the persons within that time zone to organise their own, but it seems that the CM are a closed shop and any one who wants to organise a scenario is not allowed to do so without approval from the CM team, they are told "submit your idea and we will consider it". In reality this approval never seems to materialise, its a case of we will help you, but we will not let you in our club? Again, I dont know the nationality of the CM members, this is just what I pick up from the BBS, so dont flame me about it, it is just an impression and if its an impression I get from the BBS then, presumably others will also get it?
Essentially, as a fee paying member of Aces High I resent being treated differently from other members; and by being asked to prove (under threat of checking) whether I will attend an event, before it is even organised or announced, labels me as a second class member with less rights to the other members.
Vulch
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See the thing is you aren't being not allowed to play. There is nothing in the TOD rules that says Americans only. I know several that end up staying up till 3-5am to play it. I am very sorry that you take all this the wrong way. In no way are you a second class player. This was done purely due to numbers. And the decision to do a Sat/Sun event will purely be numbers again.
It does take alot of time to setup everything for an event. You don't know how frustrating it is when write up the event, set everything up and then 10 people or less show up while there are 150+ in the main arena. Or set up a large multi frame event set in a time to try to get everyone in possible timezone wise only to get 1/3 of them the last frame.
Essentially, as a fee paying member of Aces High I resent being treated differently from other members; and by being asked to prove (under threat of checking) whether I will attend an event, before it is even organised or announced, labels me as a second class member with less rights to the other members.
Yes daddog is going to check squad numbers to make sure someone doesn't try to pad the numbers. Have you read the entire TOD rules? They are pretty tight when it comes to attendance and ALL[/i] squads are under the gun about this.
each squadron is expected to have at least 2/3rds (66%) or more of its pilots show up for each frame. If this rule is violated, squadron might be removed from the participation list
If someone pads the number of members that are going to attend in the first place then chances are they will be removed later. Daddog checking this ahead of time is a way of enforcing this rule of the TOD.
I think we are pretty lucky overall considering when AH first went beta it was stated it would 29.95/month and extra for special events. Hell now we have it for 14.95 and nothing for the events.
Being on the scenerio team is not being part of an elistist group by anymeans. It means taking time from your flying and free time to do the things that need done for the events. It means having daddog and banana hounding you to make sure you have everything perfect. We operate on just the bare minimum of what we need to keep the events going. No one rides for free period. As the scenerios grow in AH I am sure the team will grow appropriately. When we look at new members we look at what they can add to the team not who they are.
I have yet to have anyone come to me to have an event run. As long as it doesn't conflict with a regular event timewise and as long as it is something that can be done within the boundries of what can be done with the SEA and as long as banana and daddog approve of me running it for someone and it doesn't conflict with my regular CM duties I don't see a problem with running an event that someone writes up. The reason it has to be "approved" is that there are things that can or can't be done in the SEA. If this can be worked out and fixed so the event will go off ok and it meets the above listed criteria then there shouldn't be a problem with it.
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
I never got a chance to fly Afrika Korps...
-SW
Yes you did, you tard! You were on my JU-52 supply squadron's roster as Stain, but ya never showed up. Typical AK - ugly, unreliable & untalented! :D
SOB
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: SOB ]