Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Ghastly on April 24, 2008, 08:37:53 AM
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Rather than reply in the other thread that's mixed with a request for attrition, I'm posting here where the discussion can stay focused (or as focused as it ever will!)
I'm rarely unexpectedly vulched/spawn camped at a field, because I can 'look around' before I jump into a vehicle and see what's going on. If I jump out into a spawn camper's sights at the field, that's my fault, IMO, because I could have checked and didn't, or chose to spawn anyway. The problem for me has been spawning a GV at a remote spawn point - often I die before I get in gear, and there is no way to know before hand what's going on there. In response to the idea that the spawn area be randomized, I want to point out that I've been working on a map for submission for MA gameplay, and there is already a randomized area into which you spawn - and there would be issues associated with with trying to enlarge the random spawn area, because the spawn area needs to be onto grassy terrain, and the larger it is the less discretion you'd have in placing it, and the more difficulties you'd have with spawn point's crossing terrain grid cells.
What I'd like to suggest is an indicator - perhaps updated once every 2 minutes and 2 minutes "behind"- that shows that there are ( or were between 2 and 4 minutes ago) enemy vehicles within 2 miles of the center of the spawn point (perhaps the indicator could be that the square in the compass that you click to spawn in could turn red).
This way, a force could still control the spawn area effectively, but they couldn't do so unexpectedly - and the onus is then on the player to decide whether to "risk" spawning into what could be a camp, just as it is now when he/she chooses to spawn at a field (where he/she can readily check to determine if the area is overrun or not).
Discussion? Comments?
<S>
Grue
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I have a much more simple solution:
No score for gv's.
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Hello Ghastly,
The details can be left to those who can get the vagaries worked out. I am all for the idea of inhibiting spawn camping at spawn points (being specific here), where you have no ability to tell what sort of mess you are spawning into. It will not be too long before those that depend on this process to pump score begin to show up and chime in on this post. I say some of the kill amounts landed are ridiculous and would be impossible if the folks had to deal with an opponent that at least had a chance to respond in kind. Hangar camping for base suppression purposes is an A-ok thing to do. You can always look out of the tower to see someone doing this, so you have a choice on whether to up in someones gunsight or not.
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Wellif I spawn in and get killed before I can move....I don't spawn in again. There are alot of maps that have double spawns and it's usaually the side that gets in there first that controls the spawn location. If they would move some of the double spawns it would help that part of the game. Nothing is perfect live with it. You could always up a jabo/dive bomber and take care of the campers. But if it's a double spawn it's pointless with out killing the vh at the other spawn.
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Rather than reply in the other thread that's mixed with a request for attrition, I'm posting here where the discussion can stay focused (or as focused as it ever will!)
I'm rarely unexpectedly vulched/spawn camped at a field, because I can 'look around' before I jump into a vehicle and see what's going on. If I jump out into a spawn camper's sights at the field, that's my fault, IMO, because I could have checked and didn't, or chose to spawn anyway. The problem for me has been spawning a GV at a remote spawn point - often I die before I get in gear, and there is no way to know before hand what's going on there. In response to the idea that the spawn area be randomized, I want to point out that I've been working on a map for submission for MA gameplay, and there is already a randomized area into which you spawn - and there would be issues associated with with trying to enlarge the random spawn area, because the spawn area needs to be onto grassy terrain, and the larger it is the less discretion you'd have in placing it, and the more difficulties you'd have with spawn point's crossing terrain grid cells.
What I'd like to suggest is an indicator - perhaps updated once every 2 minutes and 2 minutes "behind"- that shows that there are ( or were between 2 and 4 minutes ago) enemy vehicles within 2 miles of the center of the spawn point (perhaps the indicator could be that the square in the compass that you click to spawn in could turn red).
This way, a force could still control the spawn area effectively, but they couldn't do so unexpectedly - and the onus is then on the player to decide whether to "risk" spawning into what could be a camp, just as it is now when he/she chooses to spawn at a field (where he/she can readily check to determine if the area is overrun or not).
Discussion? Comments?
<S>
Grue
I like your indicator idea Ghastly. Maybe an alternative would be to click on the spawn point and be able to look around, just as you can from the tower, but that might be a coding nightmare - I don't know. :salute
One additional thought. It still only cost a gv'er 1 death to discover whether or not the spawn is camped. If he wants to up over and over and over, that's his choice. :rolleyes:
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I up a jeep and make a run for it and check the spawn point if i think it's camped. if it is I can take fire while heavy GV's up.
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I like your indicator idea Ghastly. Maybe an alternative would be to click on the spawn point and be able to look around, just as you can from the tower, but that might be a coding nightmare - I don't know. :salute
One additional thought. It still only cost a gv'er 1 death to discover whether or not the spawn is camped. If he wants to up over and over and over, that's his choice. :rolleyes:
The biggest issue I see with being able to look around the spawn point as you can at the field is not that it might be a coding nightmare (although it might be) - but that in many instances I think you'd be able to watch an enemy field or city with impunity unless all the maps were redone to move the spawn points to far enough away that many GV'ers would (legitimately) complain about transit times.
Anaxogoras, (if you were being serious and not a smart***) I'll point out eliminating score would eliminate a lot of the reason that people play. I doubt HTC would even remotely consider it - and besides which, removing score wouldn't remove the frustration from dying for some (most, probably) of us anyway.
Stroker and to a lesser extent whiteman, your solutions work for a squadron - but not well for the stand-alone game player. With someone over the spawn point, you'll know if it's camped or not anyway before you spawn. And if you're running around distracting the campers in a jeep, you can't very well up a tank.
I like the indicator idea because it simply provides a bit more - but not too much more - information to the player who can then use it as he see's fit to avoid being killed by spawn campers rather than trying to force players (those on either side!) to play differently than they would otherwise choose, which always seem to have unintended consequences.
<S>
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I had in mind a much narrower field of view - just the actual spawn area plus 1K or so. :aok
But whatever - the indicator idea seems like a good idea also.
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Or adding "grunt" to the vehicle list...... graphics motion and pistol are already modelled.
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What if there was an auto ack or a mannable ack position at every remote spawn point?
It would make the spawn points scoutable and/or would decrease the safety of the campers.
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Another option could be to have a "shorter reserve spawn" a short distance back from the main spawn. One could e.g. use a dot command (.shortspawn) to toggle his next spawning event shorter.
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Or maybe it is possible to spawn with a "flying start" engines on, in gear, a moving target is more difficult to hit...
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i dont like spawn camping, however i dont have a problem with it. we can kill the campers eventually. i say leave it the way it is. to me, its just part of the game. you cant stop behavior like that. its more education, teaching someone that its not cool to camp.
if its about points, god love em. i personally could care less about points.
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Well, I sort of like the idea(s) I put forward in the other thread. (1) For distant spawns have either a random spawn at multiple points (it would shift every 5 minutes so a group could spawn en masse for co-ordinated action; (2) or a spawn zone where one selected the precise point with a right click.
The spawn point or zone should NOT be shown to the enemy (two account cheaters could game this as could groups). This would make the A-20s have to search a bit more instead of flying the vector between spawn and GV presumed target.
In tandem with my Mulberry idea---whereby infantry has an inherent "hardness" ---perhaps spawn points should have some 17 pndr and 37mm fixed positions at them. I know 17 pndr not in game, BUT it is the Firefly gun---and it WAS in RL an anti-tank piece---so transfer of the code to an emplacement relatively simple.
Finally. it might be nice, and combat camping if NEW spawn points could be generated. How? One possibility: (2 x 10 troops and 2x vehicle supplies) dropped at a point establishes a new spawn point there---sort of forward base representing (as a distant spawn point does) in game time credit for a distance a player would have had to drive to re-supply at that point. Perhaps each spawn point would be limited to one "new" point to keep things simple.
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what if you were spawned facing the closest enemy? - at least then,.... MAYBE?
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IMpakt, your ideas while not without merit, clash with the current design of the game. You are missing the fact that the spawn point is an OBJECT that is embedded into the terrain at the time that it is built, not a "created on the fly location". Anything can be changed of course, but it would probably mean rewriting significant portions of the sim at a fundamental level (and quite likely, throwing out all the maps that currently exist - or at least modifying and recompiling them.)
<S>
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I see what you are saying---thanks. So, new spawn point generation and spawn "right click' option in a zone are out. BUT there is no apparent reason why some of the other ideas might not be part of a possible solution.
(1) Spawn point unknown to enemies not cheating.
(2) Several FIXED points (say 2 or 3) and one spawns randomly between them at fixed intervals.
(3) that spawn points could be "hardened" with AT guns, "hull down revetments," spotter positions, minefield, or friendly artillery coverage, etc..