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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on April 26, 2008, 11:34:32 PM

Title: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: rpm on April 26, 2008, 11:34:32 PM
Well, I've ordered a service manual for my Suzuki Carry. It's in the mail. Before it gets here I have a problem I need to diagnose. When I run my engine at road speeds, it runs fine. When I run it at low throttle or idle like when I'm crawling along in 4x4, it smokes. The smoke clears up quickly when I pick up the rpm's. No water in the oil or oil in the water. No visable seal leaks. The amount of oil loss is not major (1 pint in 600 miles). I'm going to pull the plugs Monday and see what they look like.

My initial thought was rings, but would that clear up at higher rpm's? Does'nt ring smoke usually increase with engine speed?

My second thought was some sort of pcv/ vacuum line issue.

Any suggestions?



 
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: FrodeMk3 on April 26, 2008, 11:52:27 PM
Rich mixture at low rpm's? Is it EFI? Shouldn't do that.

BTW, is it when you use throttle/accelerate?
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: rpm on April 27, 2008, 12:25:28 AM
EFI. If I am crawling along in 4x4 at idle it slowly builds up. If I gas it to speed up, it will belch a cloud and continue for another 30 seconds or so and disappear.
I'm really thinking rings. After I pull the plugs, maybe i can isolate it.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: SIK1 on April 27, 2008, 12:53:49 AM
What color is the smoke?
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: DrDea on April 27, 2008, 01:03:29 AM
 Had a 84 chevy van that did this.Rings it was.Does it do this when it warms up?If not your probebly right on the rings.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: rpm on April 27, 2008, 01:09:09 AM
White/light blue, it's oil smoke. Normally I'd think rings, valves or head gasket. I don't see any signs of a leaking head gasket (oil/water mix), I don't hear any noise resembling broken rings or bad valves. That's why I'm thinking pcv or some other vacuum issue. I'll learn more when I get the manual, but it does not have a troubleshooting section, just tech.

Yes, it does it when warmed up. Engine speed seems to be the controlling factor.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: WWhiskey on April 27, 2008, 01:13:19 AM
color of smoke is very important here , sounds like carb / efi problem. ring smoke would be constant and more at higher rpm , only way for this too be oil smoke is  either at high oil pressure  or leaking down the valve guides , usually the latter , high oil pressure smoke occure at decell after high rpms most of the time if you still think rings just do a compression check i.e. pull the plugs and screw in the pressure checker one cylinder at a time right down the amounts of each  and the leak down. also you did not say how many miles on this rig and what type of life it had?
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: WWhiskey on April 27, 2008, 01:18:16 AM
what type of tranny?( i know    why would it matter)
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: rpm on April 27, 2008, 01:27:49 AM
About 38,000 miles on a 660cc 3cyl, 5 speed manual work truck. Suzuki J6A engine. Not normally considered high milage for them.
I have the factory manual on order, but it is a complete teardown / rebuild manual. It's not a troubleshooter.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: DiabloTX on April 27, 2008, 02:57:23 AM
You're burning your rice...burner.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: rpm on April 27, 2008, 03:36:26 AM
Well, rice IS white...

and Diablo, you would be impressed with where this little fediddleer can go. I did a rear wheel stand coming out of a gully in 4x4 today. It was so cool I had to turn around and do it again! :cool:

This little ride makes a Gator or Mule look like a Big Wheel.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: SD67 on April 27, 2008, 04:38:08 AM
Well since you let us know it's manual not auto, it's not the solenoid on the tranny (A common cause for white smoke in autos) so I'm willing to lean toward stem seals too.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: DiabloTX on April 27, 2008, 05:27:44 AM
Well, rice IS white...

and Diablo, you would be impressed with where this little fediddleer can go. I did a rear wheel stand coming out of a gully in 4x4 today. It was so cool I had to turn around and do it again! :cool:

This little ride makes a Gator or Mule look like a Big Wheel.

This thread is WORTHLESS without pics!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: Excel1 on April 27, 2008, 06:09:32 AM
White/light blue, it's oil smoke. Normally I'd think rings, valves or head gasket. I don't see any signs of a leaking head gasket (oil/water mix), I don't hear any noise resembling broken rings or bad valves. That's why I'm thinking pcv or some other vacuum issue. I'll learn more when I get the manual, but it does not have a troubleshooting section, just tech.

Yes, it does it when warmed up. Engine speed seems to be the controlling factor.

i have to agree. from your description it sounds like rings. worn valve guides or oil getting past the stem seals usually shows up the most as lots of smoke when de-accelerating.. oil gets pulled down the guides and into the cylinders by high engine vacuum.

if you have no luck with the more obvious stuff, pvc valve etc, i wouldn't mess around with it, i'd do a quick compression test to check for low cranking pressure on one or more cylinders then do a  leak down test. the leak down test is an accurate way to diagnose the engine for worn rings, leaking head gasket and valves, cacked head etc without having to tear the engine down
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: DiabloTX on April 27, 2008, 07:29:38 AM
Or drop an LS1 in it!

 :rock :rock :rock
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: wrag on April 27, 2008, 07:43:54 AM
Does this puppy have a onboard computer?

Did you ever disconnect the battery?

Word I got from some mech types is......

If you ever disconnect the battery without that 9volt doohicky connected in some way to your system the computer zeros out.

To get it back where it should be run the vehicle for about 1 hour at idle and the computer SHOULD reset itself.............

BUT it does sound like you have an oil problem?
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: Bronk on April 27, 2008, 07:53:53 AM
Been a while since I messed with diesels.

Possible leaky injector I think. At low rpm it can load up and burn off in the exhaust. It will be a white color not black like if it were rich.
While at high rpm it is all burnt off.


Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: wrongwayric on April 27, 2008, 09:45:47 AM
My money is on valve seals. PCV valves are cheap and very quick/easy to change on most vehicles. Go buy one or take it to a shop will take all of 20min tops for them to put a new one in. Change that and rule it out. I'm still betting a leaking valve seal. Your looking at some bucks if you have that problem especially if you do the repair right. If i remember right rings usually will show a dark smoke were valves usually show white. I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: Masherbrum on April 27, 2008, 09:50:09 AM
Well, I've ordered a service manual for my Suzuki Carry. It's in the mail. Before it gets here I have a problem I need to diagnose. When I run my engine at road speeds, it runs fine. When I run it at low throttle or idle like when I'm crawling along in 4x4, it smokes. The smoke clears up quickly when I pick up the rpm's. No water in the oil or oil in the water. No visable seal leaks. The amount of oil loss is not major (1 pint in 600 miles). I'm going to pull the plugs Monday and see what they look like.

My initial thought was rings, but would that clear up at higher rpm's? Does'nt ring smoke usually increase with engine speed?

My second thought was some sort of pcv/ vacuum line issue.

Any suggestions?


My AMC 304 did this when I had my 83 CJ7.    The answer is simple, the valve seats are bad on your engine.   This isn't an issue to be worried about......yet.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: WWhiskey on April 27, 2008, 09:51:24 AM
 i dont know about this motor but you used to be able to put an umbrella on the valve stems to help with this problem (circa 1990 chevy small blocks) a little less work to help cure the smoke on near brand new heads! might be something too look at but i still think pvc first then valve stems second!
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: FrodeMk3 on April 27, 2008, 10:27:27 AM
BTW RPM, have you been having to add oil on a regular basis (like a quart a week?) That helps' with the guessing.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: Holden McGroin on April 27, 2008, 10:32:15 AM
Quote
Does it smoke more when the gas tank is half empty than it does when it is half full? -- Click and Clack
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: rpm on April 27, 2008, 01:19:34 PM
OK, a few quick replies before I head to work.

It's not a diesel. 3 cyl Suzuki J6A gas engine

Not sure about a computer. Have to wait for the manual.

I have added a pint of oil in 600 miles.

Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTx
This thread is WORTHLESS without pics!!!!!!!!!!!
Here ya go Diablo:
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1586/img113ea4.jpg)(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8027/img112dd9.jpg)
I don't have any 4wheeling pics yet.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: SD67 on April 28, 2008, 02:46:23 AM
Hey RPM, It's not a 2 stroke is it?
Just askin to be sure ;)
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: SIK1 on April 28, 2008, 10:43:47 AM
The smoke sounds like valve guides too me.

It has a computer if it is EFI the E stands for electronic.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: rpm on April 28, 2008, 12:08:52 PM
Sik, I ment diagnostics computer. I don't think it has an OBD2 connection.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: CAP1 on April 28, 2008, 12:21:59 PM
Well, I've ordered a service manual for my Suzuki Carry. It's in the mail. Before it gets here I have a problem I need to diagnose. When I run my engine at road speeds, it runs fine. When I run it at low throttle or idle like when I'm crawling along in 4x4, it smokes. The smoke clears up quickly when I pick up the rpm's. No water in the oil or oil in the water. No visable seal leaks. The amount of oil loss is not major (1 pint in 600 miles). I'm going to pull the plugs Monday and see what they look like.

My initial thought was rings, but would that clear up at higher rpm's? Does'nt ring smoke usually increase with engine speed?

My second thought was some sort of pcv/ vacuum line issue.

Any suggestions?



 

what color smoke?
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: Shuffler on April 28, 2008, 01:21:10 PM
I'm thinking your oil rings are worn (or cylinder wear). You may even have a ring that is cracked. I'm not familiar with the imports but an engine is an engine.

I don't think it is leaking at the guides as that usually causes smoke only on startup.

While a compression test can tell you of worn or cracked compression rings, it won't let you know the state of the oil ring. If it is wear then all the plugs will be about the same, if one cylinder has a cracked oil ring you'll notice heavy carbon deposits on that plug.

Good Luck  :aok
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: JTs on April 29, 2008, 03:40:59 AM
my cummins drove me crazy. crankcase breather was plugged up
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: SIK1 on April 29, 2008, 10:14:18 AM
rpm the neat thing about having computers in cars is they all have onboard diagnostics, in one form or another. Granted OBD2 monitors way more parameters, and is usually easier to scan, but if you know how, you can get the computer to tell you what you need to know. Probably why you're waiting for the manual, (sooner or alter things sink into my thick skull).

Shuffler I don't think it's rings because he said it clears up at high rpms. At high revs the crankcase pressure goes up which if the rings are bad causes oil to blow past them thus causing smoke.
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: Shuffler on April 29, 2008, 10:58:07 AM
At high revs the crankcase pressure goes up which if the rings are bad causes oil to blow past them thus causing smoke.

That is correct to an extent. Many times I have found the following true. Under acceleration you would see smoke as the engine runs up higher RPMs to shift points. In cruise ,while the RPMs are up over idle, they are still low enough to not increase crankcase pressure over the ability of the venting capacity. Therefore at speed you won't see much if any smoke.

But who knows without looking at it...  :aok
Title: Re: Calling All Wrenchheads
Post by: rpm on April 29, 2008, 07:56:34 PM
OK, got a bit more info on another forum. A Minitruck dealer says it's fairly common for them to smoke because they are shipped standing vertically in a container and oil tends to submerge the valve guide seals. Kinda makes sense to me, altho I would have thought the seals tougher than that.

I also found an OBD-2 connection. Now if I can just find an OBD-2 reader for the F6A engine.