Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Special Events General => Topic started by: mx22 on March 03, 2000, 09:16:00 AM
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Would anyone be interested in making this one? Give Brits one or two B26s (for the lack of RAF bombers) and a lot of Spits and let them fly "circus", while LW will try to engage them?
Just an idea...
mx22
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I'd be in, and would fly either side. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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109F vs. Spit V sounds like fun, Get hold of BaneX, he is the event officer for JG 2, I am sure he could arrange something.
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Milo
"A MiG on your 6 is better than no MiG at all"
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
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What Kieren said (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I like Ygsmilo's idea too would be a furballers dream!!
Shamus
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Might be better to pretend the B-26 is a LW Heinkel and play the BoB.
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
Trainer
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 03-03-2000).]
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Hey ygsmilo,
Since you are in the JG2 anyway, I think it will be easier for you to find BaneX - just post a message in squad's board and refer him to this dicussion.
Also, since there are some responses here - does anyone has a clear idea of how this circuses worked? Were RAF fighters engaging LW with advantage or was is more of a equal terms engagement in terms of alt. Also, I know that some circuses included more then 500 RAF fighters, question is how many planes would LW put up against them. Anyone here can answer these questions?
mx22
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Originally posted by Minotaur:
Might be better to pretend the B-26 is a LW Heinkel and play the BoB.
I think B26 has way to many gunner positions for the LW planes. Plus for BoB we would need SpitI and Bf109E (SpitI's engine had that problem with positive G manuevers) and of course a map with water (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
mx22
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I sent BaneX an email to read this thread.
I was reading one of my books about JG 26 last nite and the one of the circus engaged was described was 8 A-20's escort by 4 RAF Wings which I think would be about 400 aircraft. They were spread out of course hi cover low ect. Part of the reason was at the time 2 gruppes of JG 26 were flying the FW190 A4 which had a significant performance advatage over the Spit V at the time. It was Fighter Commands intention to bring up the LW to fight and have the numbers to put the "hurt on them". This was in late 1942 to mid 43. If you look at the loss numbers what happend was the LW had a huge kill to loss ratio as they only attacked the fighters when they had the advantage. Fighter Command in time cut back on this type of operation until the Spit 9 was in sufficent quantites to be operationally deployed.
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Milo
"A MiG on your 6 is better than no MiG at all"
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
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Originally posted by ygsmilo:
I was reading one of my books about JG 26 last nite and the one of the circus engaged was described was 8 A-20's escort by 4 RAF Wings which I think would be about 400 aircraft. They were spread out of course hi cover low ect. Part of the reason was at the time 2 gruppes of JG 26 were flying the FW190 A4 which had a significant performance advatage over the Spit V at the time. It was Fighter Commands intention to bring up the LW to fight and have the numbers to put the "hurt on them". This was in late 1942 to mid 43. If you look at the loss numbers what happend was the LW had a huge kill to loss ratio as they only attacked the fighters when they had the advantage. Fighter Command in time cut back on this type of operation until the Spit 9 was in sufficent quantites to be operationally deployed.
I guess this means that RAF would come in at low alt and then intercepted by LW from above. But then of course, we should make something like 2:3 LW to RAF ratio. Am I correct on that one?
mx22
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Not exactly, The RAF would have high cover, a sweep out front, flanking cover etc. what would happen is the LW would refuse combat unless they did have alt or another advantage ie. numbers, position, or wait until the RAF were withdrawing. I would recommend anyone to read the book. And of course I cant remember the exact title or author! JG 26 is in the title.
BTW the RAF ace Johnnie Johnson relates an ambush during this timeframe in which his Wing took heavy losses.
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Milo
"A MiG on your 6 is better than no MiG at all"
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
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This sounds like a very good idea.. I'm sure the JG2 would love to be the LW in this one. Let's see about setting up a date to run this, preferably a weekend date so most of the squadron will hve a good chance of attending. We have 20+ active members and would be a good representation of the LW side. If ya need to contact me here's my email.
encallain@stic.net
Beats havin to take on those uber 38's flyin around (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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BaneX
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2)
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I would also recommend getting HT to set the arena to "radar off" as the standard for all mini-Scenarios.
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Originally posted by ygsmilo:
Not exactly, The RAF would have high cover, a sweep out front, flanking cover etc. what would happen is the LW would refuse combat unless they did have alt or another advantage ie. numbers, position, or wait until the RAF were withdrawing.
That is my point ygsmilo,
As you said, LW won't engage unless it was in favorable position. That's why we will have LW plane high and RAF lower. But at the same time for every 3 RAF planes, LW will have only 2. This way it will be more or less on equal terms.
The mission goal will be to destroy LW air base (not capture though) and return to the base. LW will be able to attack as soon as RAF crosses the agreed place and countinue to attack untill either force is destroyed or RAF crosses some point on it's way back. Replanes will be allowed to all LW fliers who managed to bail out or ditch(hmm sounds like a good reason to shot down those chutes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
Any additions or changes here?
mx22
[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 03-03-2000).]
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I'm in... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Chain
Aki Holopainen
aki.holopainen@quicknet.inet.fi
HLeLv FennoManiacs (http://www.kolumbus.fi/timo.sundvik/fennot/)
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I see your point now mx (I went and had a few beers for lunch), I would say that the RAF could employ any formation they choose. But the LW should have radar (historical componet) that would allow the LW to have a tactical advantage. The bombers are not there to cause damage, they are bait. Your 2/3 LW, RAF ratio would be historically (sp?) correct but the LW should be able to fly the G-2 or 6 (I think the G-2 was available at the time) to reflect the lack of the FW 190 A4 in the plane set. Good post mx.
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Milo
"A MiG on your 6 is better than no MiG at all"
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
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Originally posted by ygsmilo:
I see your point now mx (I went and had a few beers for lunch), I would say that the RAF could employ any formation they choose. But the LW should have radar (historical componet) that would allow the LW to have a tactical advantage. The bombers are not there to cause damage, they are bait. Your 2/3 LW, RAF ratio would be historically (sp?) correct but the LW should be able to fly the G-2 or 6 (I think the G-2 was available at the time) to reflect the lack of the FW 190 A4 in the plane set. Good post mx.
Hi,
I have never said, LW should not use radar. In regard of BF109G2 or 6, I would rather see a classic Bf109F4. Though maybe a mixed formation of BF109F4s and G2s (50% each) would be nice to spice up things (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) But definatly not a G6.
Also bombers... Well, they will need some target otherwise who will want to fly them? On the other hand, LW is free to engage whatever they want - be it fighters only, bombers only or both of them. What we can do is change the goal of the whole scenario - instead of destroing the field, RAF will have to achieve air superioty by means of engaging LW fighters and damaging their base. Thus, for RAF to achieve "major victory", it will have to destroy or damage both significantly and survive, while LW's goal is to engage enemy. Of course LW will want to protect it's field as if RAF bombers destroy acks and fuel supply, replaning LW pilots will be under thread of being vulched and not have enough fuel to engage retreating RAF force.
In another twist, RAF might substitude bombers for SpitVs with bombs and try to damage the field this way. But I doubt SpitVs are suitable for this mission.
Any other additions or changes required?
mx22
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Sounds good, some of the circus's (or rodeo's as some called them) were specifically aimed at airfields, Abbeville was one of the JG 26's main airfields. Lets load them up and go.
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Milo
"A MiG on your 6 is better than no MiG at all"
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
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im in (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Ok, seems like we agreed on terms... I already sent an email to BaneX asking about possible time for the event. I think since it's already Friday evening, we won't be able to do it before Sunday. And if Sunday is not good for any reason, we will switch it for next weekend. I hope that BaneX replies to me or posts here real soon on the time issue.
So stand by, I'll post as soon as I have additional information.
mx22
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I'm in, gimme a G-2. If the event is in reasonable hour for us europeans, that is. In that case I could also take a flight leader task for the G-2's. Just don't check how I did in the last ToD (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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Hey ygsmilo,
I still didn't hear from BaneX, so I think we should start doing the scenario on our own. Can you contact me at mx22@bellatlantic.net so we can agree on timing and other things. I also will be in SE arena today around 9pm EST doing some flight tests there.
Regards,
mx22
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Sorry I haven't replied to your posts.. been real busy this week (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) As for time I would think anytime around 8pm GMT on Saturday or SUnday would be a real good time for the squad. I'll send around an email finding out which would be best.
Sorry again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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BaneX
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2)
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Hi Banex,
It's ok, I have been busy this whole week myself - didn't get a chance to fly since Monday. 8pm GMT is 3pm EST? If so, then I think it's better to make it at around 10pm GMT since we will be able to get more people to fly.
mx22
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Alrighty.. 10pm GMT on Sunday??? would be a pretty good hour. If anyone has problems with it they can let me know, but I'm sure the vast majority of our squad can be there at that time.
Looking forward to flying this one (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(Been practicing the g2 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
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BaneX
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2)
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Look like we'll have a pretty decent turn out. Look forward to flying tomorrow (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Watch out all you sissyfire dweebs! JG2 is out for blood!
DTAS!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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BaneX
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2)
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5:00 PM EST? I should be there as a Spit V!
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If it's still on for 10pm GMT today, I'll be there flying whatever you want me to (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Will this be in the special events arena?
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Hey I am in for a 109... so is there some more info on this event?
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Hey Kirin,
Event is today at 5pm EST (10pm GMT) in Special Events arena. If you scroll up a bit, there is a description of the mission there.
And btw, I hope LW fighters dont mind being killed in shute since they have an option to replane.
See ya in my Spit (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
mx22