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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CAP1 on May 23, 2008, 11:41:10 AM

Title: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 23, 2008, 11:41:10 AM
ok...in midwar last night, there were a couple nice fights to be had. just after the reset there was some nice furballing at about 3 to 5k alt just north of 55. not a very big one, mind you, only about 5 or 6 planes on each side.  for awhile, it remained at that alt level. then the inevitible happened. the spits n hurris started grabbin a bit before they got to the fight, and finally a pony driver came over at well over 10k alt. so here i am in a P38 for the first time in a week or so, with a b-n-zing pony. for some reason though, with all of us there, he was making every attempt on me. he seemed to ignore my countrymen in the spits, hurris and whatever else they were in. on several of his passes, i managed to grab alt during my evasives, and on noticing this, he closed in to keep me from keeping my alt. it got to the point where i actually did try sucker himinto following me down past a friendly(he didn't fall for it). finally, i did manage to equalize our altitudes. now what his solution was? he ran(or extended) back to base. from a big overweight p38 that still had drop tanks hanging. it's ashame, because as i followed him, we got out of range of my friendlies, and i think it would've been a nice fun 1-1 at 22k :O
 now out of curiousity, those of you that fly ponys........is there a particular reason to go for a 38 first? are they actually more dangerous to you than the spits?

<<S>>
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: hubsonfire on May 23, 2008, 12:25:47 PM
I always go for the bombers first, and I imagine that's what happened here.
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Guppy35 on May 23, 2008, 12:40:29 PM
38s are big targets and always draw a crowd.  It goes with the territory :)

Fly a low 38G and tell em you are coming.  Talk about drawing fire :)
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 23, 2008, 01:04:10 PM
I always go for the bombers first, and I imagine that's what happened here.

BUT  it can't be a bomber..i can't fly it in the F3 mode :D
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 23, 2008, 01:05:06 PM
38s are big targets and always draw a crowd.  It goes with the territory :)

Fly a low 38G and tell em you are coming.  Talk about drawing fire :)

i did 3 runs in the 38 last night......one was in the G, as eny was too high to get the J. i actually got a couple kills in it too :O
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2008, 01:22:42 PM
ok...in midwar last night, there were a couple nice fights to be had. just after the reset there was some nice furballing at about 3 to 5k alt just north of 55. not a very big one, mind you, only about 5 or 6 planes on each side.  for awhile, it remained at that alt level. then the inevitible happened. the spits n hurris started grabbin a bit before they got to the fight, and finally a pony driver came over at well over 10k alt. so here i am in a P38 for the first time in a week or so, with a b-n-zing pony. for some reason though, with all of us there, he was making every attempt on me. he seemed to ignore my countrymen in the spits, hurris and whatever else they were in. on several of his passes, i managed to grab alt during my evasives, and on noticing this, he closed in to keep me from keeping my alt. it got to the point where i actually did try sucker himinto following me down past a friendly(he didn't fall for it). finally, i did manage to equalize our altitudes. now what his solution was? he ran(or extended) back to base. from a big overweight p38 that still had drop tanks hanging. it's ashame, because as i followed him, we got out of range of my friendlies, and i think it would've been a nice fun 1-1 at 22k :O
 now out of curiousity, those of you that fly ponys........is there a particular reason to go for a 38 first? are they actually more dangerous to you than the spits?

<<S>>

Sounds like you ran into Vonbf and his incredibly timid flying in a P-51B.


ack-ack
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 23, 2008, 01:43:00 PM
Sounds like you ran into Vonbf and his incredibly timid flying in a P-51B.


ack-ack
ya know what? i had killed him just as he dropped from hi alt in a p47, and was killing a squaddie. and it was a ponyB too, so you're probably right. i still wish he would've fought me, as it would've been a fun fight i think.

Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2008, 01:50:34 PM
i still wish he would've fought me, as it would've been a fun fight i think.

Actually, it wouldn't have been a fun fight at all.  It would have ended up the way your fight ended up being.  You would have finally grabbed to his altitude, he would have merged with guns firing and then proceed to run as fast as his timid little legs could carry him.  There are just some players that are totally incapable of offering any sort of 'fun' fight, Vonbf being a classic example of one.

ack-ack
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 23, 2008, 01:57:01 PM
Actually, it wouldn't have been a fun fight at all.  It would have ended up the way your fight ended up being.  You would have finally grabbed to his altitude, he would have merged with guns firing and then proceed to run as fast as his timid little legs could carry him.  There are just some players that are totally incapable of offering any sort of 'fun' fight, Vonbf being a classic example of one.

ack-ack

aaahhh......
well, i had grabed to his alt. i wasn't sure if i could do that in a 38. i had in the past in zekes made sure my evasives included grabbing alt when i'm being bnz'd. i tried the same moves in the 38 last night. although it seemed to take a bit longer, and may not have worked with someone that was a better gunner than he was, it did work this time. i started out at around i think 5k or 7k alt. by the time i got co-alt to him i was at 22k. i think he did some grabing too, as he saw me getting close to his alt. o well, someday :D

<<S>>
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Soulyss on May 23, 2008, 03:27:18 PM
The problem with timid flying is in many ways it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy of sorts.  A cartoon fighter pilot either isn't very good or things of him/herself as not being better than the other cartoon fighter pilot and not wanting to lose over and over again begins to fly "safe" only engaging with alt and speed and beating a hasty retreat at the first sign of a "fair" or disadvantaged battle.  They do this for awhile and get a few kills which re-enforces the idea that they are getting "better" but they are really stunting their own development in the game. 

It seems that most shrug off and explain or try to legitimize this behaviour by claiming some link to history, ignoring the fact that this is a silly little cartoon airplane game and as a very wise friend of mine likes to say "no one really dies and the planes are free".  The only realy way to learn and become a better cartoon fighter pilot is to fight and lose, then try and answer the all important "why?". 

To quickly apply my own experiences here, it went something like this.  I joined the game waaaay back in the AH1 beta days... coming off boxed sims like EAW and Janes WW2 Fighters I was really anxious for people to think that I was "good" and the best way to do that was to have an impressive K/D score to hold up as proof of how good I was.  I flew high, I flew fast and I didn't worry too much about really learning ACM and how to dogfight because I had a big trump card I could play, as long as I had a few thousand feet of air under my wings I could dump the nose and high-tail it out of there.  When I finally switched to a slower plane and removed that trump, my "skill" curve shot up.  After a few months flying a F6F I realized how stunted the first few years I spent here really were. 

Now I still get kicked around a lot, but I also win some, and I win them (and lose them) regardless of the initial situation, and have a lot more fun doing it.  Instead of spending 45 minutes of an hour flight climbing and running, only to fight for 15 minutes, I now can spend the 15 minutes climbing out and the rest of the flight fighting. 

No one wants to lose all the time, but if you can make the loses educational you'll find that they start coming less frequently.
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Masherbrum on May 23, 2008, 03:37:15 PM
I wish I could be a contendah, instead I wallow in the crappy pool of pile-its.    :cry   
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Anaxogoras on May 23, 2008, 03:41:26 PM
People target 38s first because they are big targets.

As for the 51, all they do is run when the fight becomes co-e, even against aircraft that turn worse. :devil
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2008, 04:15:51 PM
People target 38s first because they are big targets.



The P-38 has a rather slim profile compared to the other US Army Air Corps planes.

(http://home.att.net/~ww2aircraft/Fighterprofile.jpg)

(http://home.att.net/~ww2aircraft/Thunderandlightning.jpg)

(http://home.att.net/~ww2aircraft/ThreePs.jpg)

The P-38: Is Size And Shape A Disadvantage? (http://home.att.net/~ww2aircraft/Profiles.html)  Thanks Widewing for this excellent article!


ack-ack
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Anaxogoras on May 23, 2008, 04:35:01 PM
Ack-ack, I agree that historically the P-38's size disadvantage was not that great, but in the game that is not represented well.  It probably has to do with the damage model and how hits are detected; the rear fuselage is especially prone to soaking up bullets.
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: RoGenT on May 23, 2008, 04:37:56 PM
I usually go for P38s hoping it is member of S.A.P.P  :D

Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Soulyss on May 23, 2008, 04:43:09 PM
One of the things I had to quickly try and learn when I started flying the 38 was timing my rolls and breaks better.  The 38 is either a huge target or if the roll is timed right it can become a small and elusive target real quick. 
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Rich46yo on May 23, 2008, 04:45:39 PM
The Pilot wounds in the 38, in AH, is ridiculous.

That said Im currently infatuated with the airplane. The guns are like lazer beams and its just a joy to fly.
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2008, 04:47:48 PM
Ack-ack, I agree that historically the P-38's size disadvantage was not that great, but in the game that is not represented well.  It probably has to do with the damage model and how hits are detected; the rear fuselage is especially prone to soaking up bullets.

It is represented quite well in AH since the game doesn't have a hit bubble surrounding each plane and just as it was in real life, the P-38's size and shape doesn't put it at a disadvantage.


ack-ack
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Anaxogoras on May 23, 2008, 05:09:58 PM
It is represented quite well in AH since the game doesn't have a hit bubble surrounding each plane and just as it was in real life, the P-38's size and shape doesn't put it at a disadvantage.


ack-ack

Come on, don't simply repeat the same point.  The 38 is far easier for me to hit than a P-51 or P-47, and I highly doubt I'm the only who's had this experience.
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 23, 2008, 05:15:47 PM
I usually go for P38s hoping it is member of S.A.P.P  :D


:rofl
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 23, 2008, 05:55:11 PM
Come on, don't simply repeat the same point.  The 38 is far easier for me to hit than a P-51 or P-47, and I highly doubt I'm the only who's had this experience.

As someone that has probably some of the most in game hours flying the P-38, its size and shape is not a disadvantage. I have never lost a fight because of the size of the P-38.  YMMV.


ack-ack
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 23, 2008, 05:58:18 PM
The Pilot wounds in the 38, in AH, is ridiculous.

That said Im currently infatuated with the airplane. The guns are like lazer beams and its just a joy to fly.

AS WEIRD AS IT MAY SOUND, I SEEM TO DO BETTER WITHTHE GUNS IN THE G model, as opposed to the J model. thing is, though, that for me it's also much harder to see through the windscreen due to that useless piece of bullet resistang glass.

>>S<<
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: BaldEagl on May 23, 2008, 06:05:29 PM
I like buff hunting.   :D
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 23, 2008, 06:30:17 PM
I usually go for P38s hoping it is member of S.A.P.P  :D



KNOW WHAT'S FUNNY about that? i seem to be a somewhat easy kill when i'm in the buffs. when i'm trng to kill em......they seem to have friggin lazers with my name all over em. :rofl

Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Tumor on May 23, 2008, 07:29:31 PM
I don't get it.
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Delirium on May 23, 2008, 08:48:48 PM
I've said it time and time again, P38s are the first targets after slow perk rides and C47s.

The few times I fly a 109, I feel invisible because everyone ignores me.
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 23, 2008, 09:02:24 PM
I've said it time and time again, P38s are the first targets after slow perk rides and C47s.

The few times I fly a 109, I feel invisible because everyone ignores me.
\

i used to feel that way going into furballs in a hurri2. not anymore though. it it feels to me like the most "transparent" plane i can fly in in a furball is the f6f or a low model spit, like maybe the 5. zekes, they light me up very quickly, we've already toaked about how they go for the 38's first, and higher model spits, i get kilt quickly in too.

<<S>>
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: stephen waldron on May 23, 2008, 09:58:22 PM
      Personally i get the MOST enjoyment out of the game whenever some "Richtoffen" character decides he's going to single me out and shoot me down no matter what it takes.  A couple of nights ago a fella decided he was going to personally put an end to my bombing raids against his sides factories.  He comes after me in a P-51..  But i go up in a B-26 and i'm bombing and bugging out too fast for him to stop me from landing unharmed at my base.

      So next he starts bombing the radar at four forward bases so i don't see him coming.  It does him no good, because the "base under attack" warnings are telling me he's coming.  I'm still evading the guy in a B-26, and by now i'm laughing so hard i can barely fly the plane.  It was hysterical.   

      The bottom line is, there is usually a "counter" strategy to every tactic.  Figure it out and have fun.
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Masherbrum on May 23, 2008, 10:20:12 PM
      Personally i get the MOST enjoyment out of the game whenever some "Richtoffen" character decides he's going to single me out and shoot me down no matter what it takes.  A couple of nights ago a fella decided he was going to personally put an end to my bombing raids against his sides factories.  He comes after me in a P-51..  But i go up in a B-26 and i'm bombing and bugging out too fast for him to stop me from landing unharmed at my base.

      So next he starts bombing the radar at four forward bases so i don't see him coming.  It does him no good, because the "base under attack" warnings are telling me he's coming.  I'm still evading the guy in a B-26, and by now i'm laughing so hard i can barely fly the plane.  It was hysterical.   

      The bottom line is, there is usually a "counter" strategy to every tactic.  Figure it out and have fun.

 :confused:
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 23, 2008, 10:33:02 PM
      Personally i get the MOST enjoyment out of the game whenever some "Richtoffen" character decides he's going to single me out and shoot me down no matter what it takes.  A couple of nights ago a fella decided he was going to personally put an end to my bombing raids against his sides factories.  He comes after me in a P-51..  But i go up in a B-26 and i'm bombing and bugging out too fast for him to stop me from landing unharmed at my base.

      So next he starts bombing the radar at four forward bases so i don't see him coming.  It does him no good, because the "base under attack" warnings are telling me he's coming.  I'm still evading the guy in a B-26, and by now i'm laughing so hard i can barely fly the plane.  It was hysterical.   

      The bottom line is, there is usually a "counter" strategy to every tactic.  Figure it out and have fun.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<always has fun except when some non-fighting alt monkey schmuck spends 20 minutes tryin to bnz me, then runs when i get to a co-alt situation, when he could very easil have fought and most likely kilt me :D
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: NoBaddy on May 24, 2008, 12:37:24 AM
I've said it time and time again, P38s are the first targets after slow perk rides and C47s.

The few times I fly a 109, I feel invisible because everyone ignores me.

Geez Deli...

I'm surprised you haven't figured it out....109's ARE invisible. :)

Oh...as for what I go for first...I go for the most dangerous. Type doesn't make a difference. Unless, of course, one of my special friends is up. :)
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: SD67 on May 24, 2008, 01:41:36 AM
BUT  it can't be a bomber..i can't fly it in the F3 mode :D
It's a bug :noid
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Karnak on May 24, 2008, 02:01:47 AM
38s are big targets and always draw a crowd.  It goes with the territory :)

Fly a low 38G and tell em you are coming.  Talk about drawing fire :)
I have exactly the same thing happen in the Mossie.  They see a twin-engined aircraft and think it is an easy kill.  The Mossie is easier than the P-38, but I have had a lot of comments over the years from players who were very surprised at how I could manuever it.  The last time I flew I killed an La-7, P-51D and Spitfire Mk VIII, all of which tried to kill my Mossie first (and the P-51 and Spit never tried anybody else at all).
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: ColKLink on May 24, 2008, 05:19:29 AM
When I see a p-38, I instantly think "big tgt"...then I think, "what if it's pawz or lazer....better Ho the 38 first :o
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Rich46yo on May 24, 2008, 05:56:39 AM
A Mossie in the hands of a top Mossie stick is a bomber pilots worst nightmare.

I wish we could have more missions in it. Low missions, high missions, the Mossie deserves more flight time then it gets. Its a terrific warplane.
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: E2hawkey on May 24, 2008, 07:52:37 AM
ok...in midwar last night, there were a couple nice fights to be had. just after the reset there was some nice furballing at about 3 to 5k alt just north of 55. not a very big one, mind you, only about 5 or 6 planes on each side.  for awhile, it remained at that alt level. then the inevitible happened. the spits n hurris started grabbin a bit before they got to the fight, and finally a pony driver came over at well over 10k alt. so here i am in a P38 for the first time in a week or so, with a b-n-zing pony. for some reason though, with all of us there, he was making every attempt on me. he seemed to ignore my countrymen in the spits, hurris and whatever else they were in. on several of his passes, i managed to grab alt during my evasives, and on noticing this, he closed in to keep me from keeping my alt. it got to the point where i actually did try sucker himinto following me down past a friendly(he didn't fall for it). finally, i did manage to equalize our altitudes. now what his solution was? he ran(or extended) back to base. from a big overweight p38 that still had drop tanks hanging. it's ashame, because as i followed him, we got out of range of my friendlies, and i think it would've been a nice fun 1-1 at 22k :O
 now out of curiousity, those of you that fly ponys........is there a particular reason to go for a 38 first? are they actually more dangerous to you than the spits?

<<S>>
seems to me that you out classed him and didint fight his fight  we all tend to get bitter when another pilots tactics or lack of frustrates us i bet you the  the stress was higer in the 51s cockpit you sent him home>> " cherry picker with an empty sack" :salute
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Sincraft on May 24, 2008, 12:06:21 PM
I fly the mosquito and welcome any attempts to down me.  Please, single me out! MUAHAHAH
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 24, 2008, 10:05:02 PM
When I see a p-38, I instantly think "big tgt"...then I think, "what if it's pawz or lazer....better Ho the 38 first :o

when i tried the 38 a few months ago, it semed everyone i came across, wanted to try to ho me. it also seems that the 38 lets me get PW'd kinda easily too.

<<S>>
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 24, 2008, 10:06:46 PM
seems to me that you out classed him and didint fight his fight  we all tend to get bitter when another pilots tactics or lack of frustrates us i bet you the  the stress was higer in the 51s cockpit you sent him home>> " cherry picker with an empty sack" :salute
well, i guess you just did for me, what i try to do for others. you brought up the bright side of that engagement. by the fact that he ran when i got to a co-alt situation, i guess that means that technically speaking, i won that particular (non)fight.

thank ya sir!

<<S>>
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: REP0MAN on May 24, 2008, 10:19:57 PM
I usually go for P38s hoping it is member of S.A.P.P  :D



Usually, if you get real close, you will notice the stunning good looks and cunning pile-it skills of a SAPP flyer. Thats how you can tell if it's a SAPP or not...

:noid
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 24, 2008, 10:31:52 PM
Usually, if you get real close, you will notice the stunning good looks and cunning pile-it skills of a SAPP flyer. Thats how you can tell if it's a SAPP or not...

:noid

don't they have their blenders mounted ont he glare shield too?
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Motherland on May 24, 2008, 10:43:28 PM
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/deflectioncomparison.jpg)
The 109 seems a bit small... I have to look up the wingspan... either way, there's a clear difference between a P38 a single engined fighter in a deflection shot.
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: killnu on May 24, 2008, 10:44:32 PM
I have always enjoyed a fight with a good 38 stick.  I know I normally go after them first in hopes it is one of the few good 38 sticks.  
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 24, 2008, 10:48:30 PM
I have always enjoyed a fight with a good 38 stick.  I know I normally go after them first in hopes it is one of the few good 38 sticks.  

i think i don't qualify as one of the good ones.....in anything!! :rofl
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 25, 2008, 01:12:20 AM
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/deflectioncomparison.jpg)
either way, there's a clear difference between a P38 a single engined fighter in a deflection shot.

Please re-read the post and look at the image I posted.  The P-38's profile was compared to other US Army Air Corps fighters, not Axis.  Also, keyword being profile.

ack-ack
Title: Re: NOT SURE HOW TO TITLE THIS ONE
Post by: CAP1 on May 25, 2008, 02:27:57 PM
Please re-read the post and look at the image I posted.  The P-38's profile was compared to other US Army Air Corps fighters, not Axis.  Also, keyword being profile.

ack-ack

i think what he was trying to get at though is that he feels they're easier to hit on a deflection shot, and on thayt point, i can see what he means. that's why when i do evasives in the 38, i kinda try to keep em shallow till i think he's about to overshoot, then i pull harder. i could however be wrong though, as i have been quite often, as shown by my success rate int he 38.

<<S>>