Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 1Boner on May 23, 2008, 12:27:47 PM
-
For all the talk I see on these boards about how dweeby the plane and its pilots are, I am still left asking myself why?
Its funny to see guys who have been on the BBs for a month or two ,parroting the ever present "dweeb ride" chant.
Why would the lala be any more or less "dweeby" than any other ride?
Is it too easy to fly? There are other planes out there that are just as easy.
The guns? There are other planes with better guns.
Its always been a mystery to me.
And now that school will be out soon , we'll have another generation of AH players perpetuating the lala is dweeby myth.
Why?
Inquisitivley yours,
Boner
-
It's very simple. If you notice quite a few rides are considered "dweeby." What do they all have in common?
They give other players fits.
Theer's no such thing as a "Dweeb plane" only "Dweeb pilots."
-
The exact same planeset is available to everyone that plays Aces High.
I simply cannot understand why anyone could possibly complain about what somebody else chooses to fly, when those same choices are available to them as well.
I don't care for the La-7 in particular because I just don't like that plane all that much. But I have no qualms about flying it if I'm in the mood. AND, I certainly don't care if someone else chooses to fly it.
There are no dweeby planes, just dweeby players.
My .02.
Toonces
-
And now that school will be out soon , we'll have another generation of AH players perpetuating the lala is dweeby myth.
Yes, by flying it and hoing everybody =)
-
Theer's no such thing as a "Dweeb plane" only "Dweeb pilots."
Quoted for truth.
-
I second your comments Boner, Shane & Toonces. :aok For myself, I actually prefer the LA5(shhh, don't tell anybody about this lttle hidden gem). :D
-
LA7's are becoming more appealing to me.
As of late more players are doing nothing but running. A plane that is among the fastest makes it a lot harder for the runners of this game to get away. I am sick and tired of baiting players to fight.
Yesterday I was in a great fight with a spit9 (I was a TA152). We turned on the deck for around 5 minutes. I could not get an angle on him to save my life. Anyways, I ended up auggering. I wasn't mad at all, I had a great experience and I didn't care what the outcome was. I would admit that most players in my position would have just ran and not even dealt with the spit. I don't understand why people feel like they have something to lose if they die. If anything, they have more to gain through experience.
-
<-------- Tour 100 Spit XVI Dweeb (And proud of it)
[EDIT] I just watched The Battle of Britan again the other night for the first time in like 100 years. LOVED those take-off and landing scenes with the Hurris and Spits and makes me want to take it to some 109's (except my own K4 :) ).
BTW, why don't we have grass/dirt landing strips/airfields? I bet there were a lot more of those during the war than paved.
-
While Shane's comment is correct, in the grand scheme of things, the real answer to your question is that people generally refer to the La7s/Spit16s/Nikis as "dweeb" rides because they have no glaring weakness that can be easy and consistently exploited.
They tend to do everything at 85% and above, whereas almost every other plane in the set has at least one distinct disadvantage. Jug can't climb, 190 cant turn, pony cant accelerate, etc. The 'dweeb rides' can do all those things and, in many situations, better than the rest in each case.
As an example, if you're in a 38J, you can generally out turn what you cant out run and out run what you cant out turn. These rules do not apply when faced with a Spit16, however, because it can do just about everything better than the 38 can, placing the 38 at an immediate performance disadvantage and without any feasible options, regardless of player ability.
-
Double post.
-
Yesterday I was in a great fight with a spit9 (I was a TA152). We turned on the deck for around 5 minutes. I could not get an angle on him to save my life. Anyways, I ended up auggering. I wasn't mad at all, I had a great experience and I didn't care what the outcome was. I would admit that most players in my position would have just ran and not even dealt with the spit. I don't understand why people feel like they have something to lose if they die. If anything, they have more to gain through experience.
Well said, everything is fine to acquire more experience; surely next time you'll see a 152 refusing a combat "on the deck" vs a spit you can have a more complete grade of judgement :)
-
<----hog dweeb :rock dedicated for 2 tours now besides of FSOs
-
LA7's are becoming more appealing to me.
As of late more players are doing nothing but running. A plane that is among the fastest makes it a lot harder for the runners of this game to get away.
Yeah, especially the P-51s.
If they're not "pickin", they're "runnin".
Damn fast plane too. I been flying a KI-84 alot lately,and I can't come close to a runstang.
P-51s seem to be the new locusts of the game.
Time to start re-uppin my Lala. :aok
-
And now that school will be out soon , we'll have another generation of AH players perpetuating the lala is dweeby myth.
I wonder if any of the younger pilots were bragging about "How they took on 18 guys in their La-7 and 'owned' them all", or "How they're the greatest pilot on the game" at school to their friends. Now their friends are going to get AHII and do as they do. That's how I think the HO, Ram, Pick, and/or running dweebs come to be.
To me there really is nor "dweeb plane" just "dweeb Pilots" (as Shane put it). I just hate La-7's and never fly them because when I started playing I just got a bad view of them.
-
The dweebery is all about the Pilot, I agree. But it seems like a two week trial guys will invariably up a Pony/LA/Spixteen and do head on passes until he/she is out of ammo/fuel. I have made an effort to look for these guys this tour, and it is surprisingly easy to reverse on 'em, after the first HO pass.
The bottom line?
System: You killed 9850295824 #1 :lol
I am not a fan of the LA-7. Short range and ammo load... But it IS fast! I feel it should be perked because it is over-represented in the game. F4U4 and C-Hog are perked as are the Tempest and spitXIV! Why not the LGay?
-
I wonder if any of the younger pilots were bragging about "How they took on 18 guys in their La-7 and 'owned' them all", or "How they're the greatest pilot on the game" at school to their friends. Now their friends are going to get AHII and do as they do. That's how I think the HO, Ram, Pick, and/or running dweebs come to be.
It's called the ZooZoo Syndrome.
ack-ack
-
I feel it should be perked because it is over-represented in the game.
Not more than P51 or Spit XVI or N1k
-
But it IS fast! I feel it should be perked because it is over-represented in the game. F4U4 and C-Hog are perked as are the Tempest and spitXIV! Why not the LGay?
So new players will gravitate towards planes that are easy and forgiving to fly, what's the big deal? Certainly no cause to perk the LA-7 or any of the other "n00b" friendly planes.
I also feel that those that call the LA-7 "Lgay-7" are just as sad as those they whine about and usually use that name out of frustration for getting their arses handed back by a two weeker in a LA-7.
ack-ack
-
While Shane's comment is correct, in the grand scheme of things, the real answer to your question is that people generally refer to the La7s/Spit16s/Nikis as "dweeb" rides because they have no glaring weakness that can be easy and consistently exploited.
They tend to do everything at 85% and above, whereas almost every other plane in the set has at least one distinct disadvantage. Jug can't climb, 190 cant turn, pony cant accelerate, etc. The 'dweeb rides' can do all those things and, in many situations, better than the rest in each case.
As an example, if you're in a 38J, you can generally out turn what you cant out run and out run what you cant out turn. These rules do not apply when faced with a Spit16, however, because it can do just about everything better than the 38 can, placing the 38 at an immediate performance disadvantage and without any feasible options, regardless of player ability.
That's exactly it. It's a plane without any real area of defficiency, that is why it gets that moniker. Compound that with the fact that there's those people who continue to fly these types of planes who either just use them to ho or vulch and/or are very highly skilled. Having a player exclusivley flying a plane that is basically good to great at absolutely everything then talk smack about how fabulous he/she is on 200 ad nasuem adds to the "dweebery" factor of that particular ride.
-
"pilots" :rofl :rofl :rolleyes:
-
I find that the greatest weakness to the LA7 seems to be the pilot him/herself.
Exploiting their inexperience by luring them into traps, timing it just right, and then finally guttin' 'em is a lot of fun.
Also, crushing their morale goes a long way. They're awesomeness comes into question VERY quickly when there's a badguy on their six that doesn't fire. Hehehe, I love that. Make 'em burn all their e to the point of floundering, then spittin lead right into the cockpit. Greatest feelin in the world.
-
Today, I even encountered a Spixteen pilot who wouldn't engage my 109G-14 on Co-e terms. :huh I thought, "Gee, you have almost every advantage, but you still won't fight?"
-
Any plane is going to be considered dweeby to another player no matter what it is. As for my own opinion on on LAs, sure, I like to make fun of them but I do enjoy fighting them as long as I have the advantage, if not, definetly do not like them lol
-
I think its the combination of the traits it has, durable,lethal cannons,speed,acceleration,manuverabilty. Most planes have some of those, but not all. Planes that have that much going for it are bound to be looked down on.
-
I just hate La-7's and never fly them because when I started playing I just got a bad view of them.
HATE? Thats a strong word!! :furious
Bad view of them? Could you explain what you mean?
What I mean is, specifically what do you" hate" about them?
-
I am not a fan of the LA-7. Short range and ammo load... But it IS fast! I feel it should be perked because it is over-represented in the game. F4U4 and C-Hog are perked as
And if the LA-7 had the range and ordinance capabilities of my Corsair, I might agree that it should probably be perked. But as it is, it has short guns and short legs, and is a decent defense package but usually a one way trip offensively.
I'm generally opposed to the constant cries of "perk the <whatever>", because if you perk everything good then at some point not only does the fledgling pilot have to compete with decades of experience, he has to do so in some piece of doodoo aircraft while the veteran of the game can fly whatever the perked ones without penalty. I think the perk levels are probably just about right - they kind of "herd" players but aren't restrictive if that's what you want to do.
<S>
-
I have no problems getting 45 mins of fuel in an La7. Most "dweebs" haven't a clue on how to use the strengths of the La7. They just roll, WEP, BnZ or HO.
The La7 is one of the best turnfighters in the game.
-
It's called the ZooZoo Syndrome.
ack-ack
:uhoh
-
So new players will gravitate towards planes that are easy and forgiving to fly, what's the big deal? Certainly no cause to perk the LA-7 or any of the other "n00b" friendly planes.
ack-ack
It is interesting that you point this out, as this is true. Otherwise new pilots would get frustrated and quit in short order. I feel that the LA-7 was never forgiving to me so I rarely fly it(we are not currenly on speaking terms :lol). Perk any of the above mentioned planes? Nah. I agree with Ack on this.
-
Yesterday during a unusual, for me, 200 flame , someone told me I was flying a "point and shoot LA-7".
I didn't get it yesterday and dont get it today. If anything the La-7 is anything but a point and shoot cause easy kills dont happen in it until you are 200 away. Yes you can kill from 400 to 600 but it aint like its 4 Hispanos in a RunPhoon or like a lot of other more long range gun fighters.
Theres more then a few that can run with you and a whole lot that can out turn you. Get an LA-7 slowed down and its almost an easy kill.
I get shot down a fair amount in it cause I upp them a lot when my field is capped and I almost always have to look up to see enemy fighters. That and I always turn and fight in them. You aint going to learn nothing by running.
Other planes are far more "represented". Because they have far more range and better high alt performance they will almost always have alt on an LA-7. I see far more spits, Ponys, 190s, Nikis, and a lot of others as much. I'd like to actually see the stats on whats flying most. For the most part you only see LAs during a base defense against high odds.
"Point and shoot"? Thats a good one. As is its "only noobs" doing the HO'ing :lol
Want to see "dweebery" just visit your local 45 minute vulch and watch your ace boomers/zoomers rack up their spawn kills and then run at the first sight of a con that can actually run them down.
-
Agreed that it's the 'pilots' who give it the bad name. And agreed that it has much more to do with it being one of the planes of choice of the newer folks for the most part.
When you see an LA7 you expect that you'll see shooting from way out, while going light speed and not much more. Not often do you run into an LA driver who actually fights in it. What they've heard is that it's real fast, and has big cannons. So they go real fast and shoot big cannons.
N1Ks fall into that category a bit because of the 4 cannons, but they are more apt to at least attempt to turn occasionally.
Spit 16 drivers are more apt to stick around and fight, only because they've heard it's uber and can out turn everything, which of course isn't true but they've not gotten the memo yet.
51D drivers are in it initially because they've watched the history channel and know what a Mustang is. They also know they can go really fast and are hard to catch when they've dropped from 20K to the 2K fight, shot once and blown through.
Does it mean there are no really good LA drivers? Nope. As with any bird, there are those guys who can do magic in them, but they are the exception, not the rule.
In my opinion of course :)
-
well, i think spits and la las r dweeby, main reason.. BnZers.... and just to easy 2 fly... i fly FM-2.. harder 2 fly, more of a challenge, but still fun 2 fly when i blow ppl outa the sky :aok
-BigBOBCH
-
well, i think spits and la las r dweeby, main reason.. BnZers.... and just to easy 2 fly... i fly FM-2.. harder 2 fly, more of a challenge, but still fun 2 fly when i blow ppl outa the sky :aok
-BigBOBCH
Again, another classic example of a player putting the blame on a plane for the pilot's actions. Just because you fly a FM-2 and someone flies a Spitfire, doesn't automatically make you the better or more skilled player.
ack-ack
-
Only thing dweeby about the La7 as is the case with most top tier and perk rides is getting the POS within D200 to kill it.
Dweeby is on how they fly it not the plane, whether that person be new or a vet. I experienced one of the most dweeby acts in years a couple night ago, wasn't the Niki's fault but the timid stick flying it. Newbie you can understand because they don't know any better. Vets landing kills in a top tier or perk ride have their skill impaired by thinking anyone else cares about their score/stats.
AH2 is like Deathmatch (Doom), you can be a rocket-tard for easy kills or go for the challenge of using a chainsaw. Not as many kills and you die frequently with the chainsaw. But you'll be in hysterics when they turn and run into a corner.
<S>...-Gixer
-
Simple. "Easy Mode". It aint the plane, it's the personality.
Tumor
For all the talk I see on these boards about how dweeby the plane and its pilots are, I am still left asking myself why?
Its funny to see guys who have been on the BBs for a month or two ,parroting the ever present "dweeb ride" chant.
Why would the lala be any more or less "dweeby" than any other ride?
Is it too easy to fly? There are other planes out there that are just as easy.
The guns? There are other planes with better guns.
Its always been a mystery to me.
And now that school will be out soon , we'll have another generation of AH players perpetuating the lala is dweeby myth.
Why?
Inquisitivley yours,
Boner
-
I think "dweebs" are just the guys are mad couse they can't win against fighting a plane.
-
well, i think spits and la las r dweeby, main reason.. BnZers.... and just to easy 2 fly... i fly FM-2.. harder 2 fly, more of a challenge, but still fun 2 fly when i blow ppl outa the sky :aok
-BigBOBCH
So if your main reason for thinking the LA7 is "dweeby" is the BNZers , that reasoning must also include the P-51,190s,Tempests,etc,etc,etc.
Anyone who BNZS is a dweeb,correct?
If YOU wanna fly a Fm-2 and challenge your considerable skills, why should anyone who doesn't be a dweeb?
The Lala ain't THAT easy to fly. Nothing in this game is "easy" to fly.
Yeah its harder to compete with a Fm-2 in the late arenas against the late war "monsters" but not everyone is lookin for the "challenge".
Alot of people are just lookin to have fun.
If the Lala makes it easier for some to have fun--God bless the Lala!!
Your favorite KI-84 dweeb,
Boner
-
I began flying the La-7 when I got tired of being b-n-z'd by folks in 190-d9s and p-51s...the last thing they want to see is a La-7 show up co-alt...that is its strength...it can move as fast as 190s and 51s and outturn them when they are caught...
That being said an La has quite a few weaknesses and is not even in the top 10 turners...
I set my convergence at 400 and rip planes to shreds at 400-600...not sure what the "got to be within 200" posts are about...
:aok
-
For all the talk I see on these boards about how dweeby the plane and its pilots are, I am still left asking myself why?
Its funny to see guys who have been on the BBs for a month or two ,parroting the ever present "dweeb ride" chant.
Why would the lala be any more or less "dweeby" than any other ride?
Is it too easy to fly? There are other planes out there that are just as easy.
The guns? There are other planes with better guns.
Its always been a mystery to me.
And now that school will be out soon , we'll have another generation of AH players perpetuating the lala is dweeby myth.
Why?
Inquisitivley yours,
Boner
there are no dweeby planes, only dweeby pilots :D
-
From what I've seen, the Spit 8 and (most prominent) 16 have taken over the La7 as most over used airplane.
-
Again, another classic example of a player putting the blame on a plane for the pilot's actions. Just because you fly a FM-2 and someone flies a Spitfire, doesn't automatically make you the better or more skilled player.
ack-ack
True, but the FM-2 pilot definitely has a bigger pair.
-
I personally think la7 pilots are better then spixteen pilots. Spixteens got the same E and turn better then La7 .
theres my 0.02$
-
True, but the FM-2 pilot definitely has a bigger pair.
Read again what I wrote, your comment applies as well.
ack-ack
-
True, but the FM-2 pilot definitely has a bigger pair.
No. Unless you're Lazs. He's the best FM-2 in the game.
-
<<La5 Dweeb. :D
-
It's definitely the pilot and not the aircraft as a tool is only as effective as the person using it. As far as the running thing that's kind of a hard one. If I'm flying against something that turns on a spec of dust and I allow myself to get lured in to the turn fight I will try to put some distance between me and my opponent. is that wrong? No, it's not. It's the smart move to make. Why am I going to stick around in a losing situation when I can get some separation and re-engage the foe? The HO'ing thing is another subject that is kinda of pointless to discuss because every pilot here has the opportunity to break the HO'ing attempt. If you get sucked in to it you have no one to blame but yourself.
<S>
Ciaphas
-
It is not just the la witch is way to easy to fly. Its every plane in AH. Maybe the FM is more than accurate but the care-free handling is a disappointment. Is like we “fly” WWII planes with a “fly-by-wire” system
-
The spit 16 is the only dweeb plane. If you fly that, I'm sorry I've lost all respect for you. It's bugged and should be taken out of the game. Barring the other planes receive the same alien technology to even the field.
All they need to do is give it 2000 rounds cannon ammo and charge an additional $5 per month for the use of that plane and call it a day.
The LA7 is a small and annoying target. I rarely get shot down by them. They are equal to flies at a picnic. You just have to make sure you keep your eye on them like the other astronauts flying the p51s when you are en route with bombs/missiles. If anyone thinks the la7 is that great of a plane, fly it for awhile. Sure it can bnz and do some turn fighting but...well just fly it for awhile. :)
My personal favorite is the p51. I rarely fly it as I can never count on the prediction code figuring out my bb's correctly. Thus, sometimes a full onslaught of ammo dumped via dead 6 will results in nothing more than an enemy pilot tilting his wing to find out what that annoying sound is. The p51 is best for BnZ and fast pass squirts it seems. For some reason the ammo is more effective.
I'm not sure why this plane is an 8eny because it really isn't that effective. Sure it's fast, but the ammo sucks.
Probably more of an opinion than you wanted eh? :)
-
Actually agree with a few points there.
For all the bashing on the La-7, I rarely get killed by them.
And, for all the raving about how uber they are, I've tried flying them a bit this tour. I don't find it a particularly easy plane to fly well. Those LE slats bop the plane all over the place and the guns are teh suxor. I can't hit crap with them.
I strongly prefer the Yak-9U over the La-7.
I dunno, I just don't find the La-7 as uber as everyone makes out. Maybe I just suck in it.
-
I began flying the La-7 when I got tired of being b-n-z'd by folks in 190-d9s and p-51s...the last thing they want to see is a La-7 show up co-alt...that is its strength...it can move as fast as 190s and 51s and outturn them when they are caught...
I'm not attacking you personally, but the point needs to be raised. Can one really claim any sort of "moral high ground" by winning a match-up in which one enjoys every single performance advantage?
As an alternative, wouldn't it be neater to run down that Pony in one of its historical foes, say the 190D9/109K? They are perfectly capable of catching a Pony. Because these two planes are far less maneuverable than the La however, I suspect many who give this reason for flying the La7 consider killing the cornered runstang in a 190/109K to be too sporting a proposition.
The above quote actually illustrates why the La7 should have a light perk price, without intending to do so of course. Not only does it out-run and out-turn the Pony/D9, it does the same thing to every other non-perk LW high-speed E fighter at typical MA alts-Jug/Typh/109G/K. If it was faster than everything, but turned like a Dora, it would deserve no perkage. When I run down a Pony with my Dora, he stands a fair chance, to say the least. Every LW plane in the game except the FW-190A8 has a built-in game plan against the Dora-use angles. On the other extreme, the Zero out-turns most everything, but most other planes in the set have a game plane against it to. The LW planeset generally falls into a rough spectrum of this sort: Most planes trade maneuverability for performance in a linear manner. The La-7 is the glaring exception to this rule. As someone else pointed out, you can milk more range out of the thing than you'd think, and the guns don't suck as much as claimed. The ONLY factor keeping the La7 from driving the P-51/190/P-47/Typhoon/109K4 into obsolete status in the LW MA is the contempt for La7s found in AHII player culture. In the La-7, you have an airplane that out-runs everything, and out-turns everything even close to it in top speed-if that doesn't constitute an argument for at least a light perk price, I don't know what does.
For comparison's sake, the only prop fighter faster on the deck than the La7 is the Tempest...and it is decidedly less maneuverable and easier to fight. So the Tempest deserves the highest perk price for any prop plane, while the La7 doesn't even warrant 5 points or so? The intellectually honest will have to admit that the situation just doesn't make logical sense.
-
Read again what I wrote, your comment applies as well.
ack-ack
No, the logical failure is on your side ack-ack. Having a bigger pair has little to do with being a better or more skilled player. Bravery and flying skill are two different things: witness the many skilled pilots who are nonetheless cowardly to prove the point.
Your point only makes sense if you want to play on the ambiguity of the word "better," because you can stretch that around to mean nearly anything.
-
The spit 16 is the only dweeb plane. If you fly that, I'm sorry I've lost all respect for you. It's bugged and should be taken out of the game. Barring the other planes receive the same alien technology to even the field.
All they need to do is give it 2000 rounds cannon ammo and charge an additional $5 per month for the use of that plane and call it a day.
The LA7 is a small and annoying target. I rarely get shot down by them. They are equal to flies at a picnic. You just have to make sure you keep your eye on them like the other astronauts flying the p51s when you are en route with bombs/missiles. If anyone thinks the la7 is that great of a plane, fly it for awhile. Sure it can bnz and do some turn fighting but...well just fly it for awhile. :)
My personal favorite is the p51. I rarely fly it as I can never count on the prediction code figuring out my bb's correctly. Thus, sometimes a full onslaught of ammo dumped via dead 6 will results in nothing more than an enemy pilot tilting his wing to find out what that annoying sound is. The p51 is best for BnZ and fast pass squirts it seems. For some reason the ammo is more effective.
I'm not sure why this plane is an 8eny because it really isn't that effective. Sure it's fast, but the ammo sucks.
Probably more of an opinion than you wanted eh? :)
LMAO
XVI driver usually HAS to stay and fight. Where as the other 2 mentioned tuck tail and haul. But you just keep on thinking the way you do. :aok
-
The ONLY factor keeping the La7 from driving the P-51/190/P-47/Typhoon/109K4 into obsolete status in the LW MA is the contempt for La7s found in AHII player culture. In the La-7, you have an airplane that out-runs everything, and out-turns everything even close to it in top speed-if that doesn't constitute an argument for at least a light perk price, I don't know what does.
For comparison's sake, the only prop fighter faster on the deck than the La7 is the Tempest...and it is decidedly less maneuverable and easier to fight. So the Tempest deserves the highest perk price for any prop plane, while the La7 doesn't even warrant 5 points or so? The intellectually honest will have to admit that the situation just doesn't make logical sense.
To be "intellectually honest" in comparing those planes, you have to admit to yourself that there is more to this game (like it or not) than simply fighting other airplanes on the deck. The LA-7 is a very poor attack aircraft relative to the P-51 / P-47 / Typh / Temp. Heck, even the Dora carries a 500KG bomb. The LA-7 loses its performance advantage as altitude increases, unlike most of the aircraft you have mentioned. To top it off, all of those aircraft you mentioned have higher ENY values than the LA-7, so "duh" the game has already recognized it has a performance advantage in most game-related air-to-air combat situations.
So, no, I see no reason for the LA-7 (or Spit XVI for that matter) to be perked. It is far from unbalancing the game overall, and iirc, isn't even the most used aircraft -- and it isn't because of "reputation", but in fact is related to it's performance.
-
I have no problems getting 45 mins of fuel in an La7. Most "dweebs" haven't a clue on how to use the strengths of the La7. They just roll, WEP, BnZ or HO.
The La7 is one of the best turnfighters in the game.
Next time I run into you on-line, I might ask you to take me to the DA and show me how to use that blasted plane, if you are agreeable. Despite all of its advantages, I have never been able to do anything with it other than smack the occasional tree. :frown: Obviously I am doing it wrong, being the clueless dweeb that I am.
-
Can one really claim any sort of "moral high ground" by winning a match-up in which one enjoys every single performance advantage?
Yes, as long as it's against multiple cons which seems to be the order of the day in the MA's. I'm willing to take on the inevitable hoardlettes but I like to have the right tools for the job because I like to land my sorties too.
The spit 16 is the only dweeb plane. If you fly that, I'm sorry I've lost all respect for you.
So you do have respect for the skilled players picking in Temps and HOing in C-Hogs then? Or running from fights in Ponys? Curious.
-
You have a point about attack E2, but nothing fatal to my argument. The Temp might as well have been left out btw-because of its perk price and vulnerable radiator it will rarely be used as a jabo, unlike even the lightly perked C-Hog. I guess it is a matter of perspective. Perhaps you are placing too much emphasis on how well various fighters do a bomber's job. Most jabo runs are suicide missions anyway, the performance of the bomb truck in dogfighting being almost irrelevant. For alot of people, this game IS about fighting other airplanes only, and the deck, like it or not, is where its at. The La7 doesn't suck as an airplane even abit above its strongest altitude, and let's face it, performance above 20K is almost irrelevant in the MA. And of course, La7 can drag any fight to its best alt simply by diving. Sure, if most MA action was at 30K, the P-47N and Ta-152 would deserve perking, and the La7 would be almost worthless. Such is not the case, performance from SL to 10K is the most important factor in the AHII MA. ENY doesn't control plane usage to any great extent, all it does as far as I can tell is annoy people on the more numerous side into changing arenas. :D And the ENY numbers themselves are bizarre, consider that a P-47N has the same ENY as an La7 or Spit16...huh?
It is irrelevant that the La7 is not the most used plane, popularity does not determine performance. The P-51 is the most popular ride in the game despite its many areas of mediocrity, the Ki-84 is under-used in relation to its ability, that doesn't mean the P-51 should be perked or that the Ki should have an ENY of 30.
The difference between the La7 and Spit16 btw, is that most LW fighters which cannot dog-fight the Spit16 on equal terms are at least a little bit faster.
If there is no reason to perk the La7, then there is no reason to perk the other rides IMO, except possibly the jets and rockets. The Tempest, C-Hog, Spit14, and F4U-4 aren't "magic", an unskilled pilot will in any of them can be beaten by an expert flying a P-40. So why perk 'em, why not just let people fly what they want? :devil
To be "intellectually honest" in comparing those planes, you have to admit to yourself that there is more to this game (like it or not) than simply fighting other airplanes on the deck. The LA-7 is a very poor attack aircraft relative to the P-51 / P-47 / Typh / Temp. Heck, even the Dora carries a 500KG bomb. The LA-7 loses its performance advantage as altitude increases, unlike most of the aircraft you have mentioned. To top it off, all of those aircraft you mentioned have higher ENY values than the LA-7, so "duh" the game has already recognized it has a performance advantage in most game-related air-to-air combat situations.
So, no, I see no reason for the LA-7 (or Spit XVI for that matter) to be perked. It is far from unbalancing the game overall, and iirc, isn't even the most used aircraft -- and it isn't because of "reputation", but in fact is related to it's performance.
-
When im up against an la7 i give them my 6 then i just cut throttle and shake them off. They usually never both to slow down. The second the pass me i try to get a quick burt off cannon or machine gun in them, usually my tactic. :salute
-
Yes, as long as it's against multiple cons which seems to be the order of the day in the MA's. I'm willing to take on the inevitable hoardlettes but I like to have the right tools for the job because I like to land my sorties too.
So you do have respect for the skilled players picking in Temps and HOing in C-Hogs then? Or running from fights in Ponys? Curious.
The Spit8/16 are better than the La7 as desperate base defense airplanes. They climb just as well/better, accelerate well, and defend themselves by turning a lot better. If you can't kill/drive off the attackers with Spits, you can't do it with an La7. Along that line, the WW/Osti/Field guns are the best vulch breaking tool of all. Having two VHs on an airbase would do alot more to shut down base-take horde tactics than any sort offighter. So no, "I need a constant supply of free La7s to defend the base" is not a valid argument against a perk price for the La7.
You like to LAND after a sortie? Well, that's just pure "cowardice" and lameness by some accounts, not that I agree with that attitude. Call me crazy for thinking that having to choose between speed OR maneuverability is a fair concept. Arguments can always go both ways on issues like this...a D9 is a great plane for bouncing one of the endless NOE raids, killing some, and getting clean away with it...you know, unless they also brought an La7.
Respect? What is there to respect? Almost all kills in the MA involve some element of picking/ganging/other unfairness. Planes nearly ALWAYS dive away to the deck and begin runnng/flopping/ack dragging/horde dragging if one gets in the saddle on them. Even if both parties meet up in similar planes and have a desire to fight mano a mano to the finish, they will almost never be left alone. The only difference between a 500mph Pony busting in on your duel and the way Spits typically operate is that the Pony is easier to avoid. We can complain about these conditions, but that is the way it is and one might as well adapt. The hated bnz'ing tactic is actually a perfectly rational response to the chaotic, multi-bandit nature of MA combat, as opposed to committing to a turn fight with a particular bandit. Sure, the latter is fun, but the AHII Gods of (Mis)Fortune piss on you way too often when you try to have a nice 1v1 in the MA.
The guy in the Tempest has at least had to pay some points to get his performance advantage, and is generally much easier to dodge than the La7. They HOer in the C-Hog at least had to pay for the airframe he's probably not going to land. What's a C-Hog but an ordinary Hog with great guns anyway? You're not going to survive a good hog pilot within 400 yards locked on your six anyway, so why get antsy over .50s v 20mm? (Perking the C-Hog and leaving the La7 free is absurd IMO.)
Runstangs? I'll tell you a story that will illustrate my feelings on the issue of engaging and disengaging. So there I was, flying the evil La7 one time at a base under attack...friendlies manning Las and Spixteens all around. Most attackers had been driven off. So this enemy pony comes in high, tries his hand a bit attacking the higher friendlies, then disengages before the horde can corner him. Some self-appointed wit on range had to say "Look at the Pony run"....made me want to laugh, and I said as much. Yeah, it sure was unsporting of that Pony to not fight all our La7s and Spixteens by himself on the deck...BS! :rofl. And yeah, I've had inexplicable incidents too, like Ponies running from my lone 190, an airplane you'd think they'd be eager to turn-fight...but I don't mind seeing that even, because it means the pilot is no threat and if I DO choose to run him down (and none of his buddies show up), that he will almost certainly be meat on the table.
-
You have a point about attack E2, but nothing fatal to my argument. The Temp might as well have been left out btw-because of its perk price and vulnerable radiator it will rarely be used as a jabo, unlike even the lightly perked C-Hog. I guess it is a matter of perspective. Perhaps you are placing too much emphasis on how well various fighters do a bomber's job. Most jabo runs are suicide missions anyway, the performance of the bomb truck in dogfighting being almost irrelevant. For alot of people, this game IS about fighting other airplanes only, and the deck, like it or not, is where its at. The La7 doesn't suck as an airplane even abit above its strongest altitude, and let's face it, performance above 20K is almost irrelevant in the MA. And of course, La7 can drag any fight to its best alt simply by diving. Sure, if most MA action was at 30K, the P-47N and Ta-152 would deserve perking, and the La7 would be almost worthless. Such is not the case, performance from SL to 10K is the most important factor in the AHII MA. ENY doesn't control plane usage to any great extent, all it does as far as I can tell is annoy people on the more numerous side into changing arenas. :D And the ENY numbers themselves are bizarre, consider that a P-47N has the same ENY as an La7 or Spit16...huh?
It is irrelevant that the La7 is not the most used plane, popularity does not determine performance. The P-51 is the most popular ride in the game despite its many areas of mediocrity, the Ki-84 is under-used in relation to its ability, that doesn't mean the P-51 should be perked or that the Ki should have an ENY of 30.
The difference between the La7 and Spit16 btw, is that most LW fighters which cannot dog-fight the Spit16 on equal terms are at least a little bit faster.
If there is no reason to perk the La7, then there is no reason to perk the other rides IMO, except possibly the jets and rockets. The Tempest, C-Hog, Spit14, and F4U-4 aren't "magic", an unskilled pilot will in any of them can be beaten by an expert flying a P-40. So why perk 'em, why not just let people fly what they want? :devil
Are we done talking about "perking" the LA-7 now?
I think that argument can be found in countless other threads.
Thanks for your opinion though.
Boner
-
Yes, but people advocating giving a perk price to the La7 in other threads failed to organize a logical case for such action and tended to enter into personal pissing matches with reactionaries on the other side of the issue. :D Sometimes the people who agree with you are more harm than help. :noid
Are we done talking about "perking" the LA-7 now?
I think that argument can be found in countless other threads.
Thanks for your opinion though.
Boner
-
It's very simple. If you notice quite a few rides are considered "dweeby." What do they all have in common?
They give other players fits.
Theer's no such thing as a "Dweeb plane" only "Dweeb pilots."
Has it. A dweeb in a la7 is the worst, especially shane . :mad:
-
Has it. A dweeb in a la7 is the worst, especially shane . :mad:
Shane was good, but then anyone with experience flying nothing but La7's you'd expect them to be. However Shane lost any respect for his skills in a La7 with his attitude towards other on 200.
<S>...-Gixer
-
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...
No offense, I was just filling space, but you spent 4 of your six paragraphs responding to a response I made to someone elses quote and I never suggested the La should be perked.
-
Nothing I said was incorrect or off-topic, sorry about any crossed wires/communications breakdown though.
-
Shane was good, but then anyone with experience flying nothing but La7's you'd expect them to be. However Shane lost any respect for his skills in a La7 with his attitude towards other on 200.
<S>...-Gixer
I flew a broad spectrum of the planeset - all pretty much equally well; just that the La7 was used more often.
As for your ch 200 issues <shrug>, I didn't fly/play for respect. :aok
-
Hey there Lurker! Flying back in the MA yet? Full planeset? Well I made that comment because over the years when ever I saw you land kills it was always in a La7. And it never bothered me that you did only fly the red rocket as it was good to see someone push it's envelope, which is pretty frig big to start with.
And yes 200 was never pleasant from memory but that was then. <S>
<S>...-Gixer
-
Landing kills in anything was usually an event for me. I avg'd around 3-4 kills per death in just about everything I flew after I learned it. I enjoyed the 109 series. The day they removed gondies from the F4 was a tragic one.
But... yeah, the La7 was more survivable.
Over the years, the kills I savor most were those where I had no ammo left (or a few rounds) and had to fly them into the ground for manuever kills. ammo? i doan need no steekin' ammo! :rock
suck it down, castrati!!!!
wanders out mumbling about slobberdonkeys. :noid
<faux> :salute
-
People who regularly fly La7's and spit16's are the same people who won't play a 1st person shooter without the cheat codes. They want no sort of challenge--what have you accomplished killing people with an AK47 when everyone else has Springfield 1903's?
-
Yeah hands up all dweebs that never finished Doom on "Nightmare" :devil
<S>...-Gixer
-
People who regularly fly La7's and spit16's are the same people who won't play a 1st person shooter without the cheat codes. They want no sort of challenge--what have you accomplished killing people with an AK47 when everyone else has Springfield 1903's?
Whoa, wait a minute there...
People who fly La7s and Spit16s are those who realize that HTC lets them have extremely competitive planes...so they fly 'em. Nothing wrong with that. I don't fool with them much, I have a liking for other aircraft, but I'm not going to get on some high-horse about it. Don't blame the pilots for taking what gifts HTC gives them, look to modify the perk system if you think an aircraft is overused or has too many inherent advantages.
-
However Shane lost any respect for his skills in a La7 with his attitude towards other on 200.
<S>...-Gixer
That was his most redeeming quality! Nobody enjoys some good smack talk anymore, bunch a sissies.
-
That was his most redeeming quality! Nobody enjoys some good smack talk anymore, bunch a sissies.
Smack talk is fine, all good fun. It's when it degenerates into direct insults isn't.
<S>...-Gixer
-
That was his most redeeming quality! Nobody enjoys some good smack talk anymore, bunch a sissies.
Define "good smack talk".
-
I flew a broad spectrum of the planeset - all pretty much equally well; just that the La7 was used more often.
As for your ch 200 issues <shrug>, I didn't fly/play for respect. :aok
I DO miss your excuses. :)
-
People who regularly fly La7's and spit16's are the same people who won't play a 1st person shooter without the cheat codes. They want no sort of challenge--what have you accomplished killing people with an AK47 when everyone else has Springfield 1903's?
Alright, I'll swallow this hook...
[edit: I spit the hook back out]
Ok, I totally bit that bait, but there it is. Doggone Rooks reset the map and I had some time to kill.
-
No, the logical failure is on your side ack-ack. Having a bigger pair has little to do with being a better or more skilled player. Bravery and flying skill are two different things: witness the many skilled pilots who are nonetheless cowardly to prove the point.
Your point only makes sense if you want to play on the ambiguity of the word "better," because you can stretch that around to mean nearly anything.
To say someone has 'bigger' balls because they fly a certain plane is as large as a fallacy as thinking that flying a certain plane makes you more skilled than someone that flies another type of plane.
But you go ahead and keep thinking that while I sit back and laugh.
ack-ack
-
Heh, I enjoy flying a wide variety of planes - and do so with the same lack of skill in all of them :D - everything in game flies like a spitfire.....(at least when I fly em).
LA7 is a good bird, short legs, but much more than a ho n run plane - much much more......
Wurzel
-
To say someone has 'bigger' balls because they fly a certain plane is as large as a fallacy as thinking that flying a certain plane makes you more skilled than someone that flies another type of plane.
But you go ahead and keep thinking that while I sit back and laugh.
ack-ack
I really don't see the parallel, especially since no argument has been made for it. On the other hand, between two experienced pilots who understand this game, when one chooses an FM-2, and the other a Spit16, the former has opted for a greater challenge. It doesn't make him a more skilled pilot (perhaps the Spit16 pilot is more skilled), but it is what I call having a bigger pair. And this use of the phrase fits very well with agreed upon public usage. Maybe you disagree with the phrase itself, but there are many others that would substitute well, i.e. any phrase that means taking the path of greater resistance. You wouldn't disagree that some aircraft in this game are more challenging to succeed in than others, and you wouldn't disagree with calling them a path of greater resistance; well, why do you so vehemently resist attributing aircraft selection in this game to character traits?
The only fallacy here is what's called a "horse-laugh" or appeal to ridicule, which you made above.
-
People who regularly fly La7's and spit16's are the same people who won't play a 1st person shooter without the cheat codes. They want no sort of challenge--what have you accomplished killing people with an AK47 when everyone else has Springfield 1903's?
First of all, I've never played a first person shooter game and I've never cheated. Secondly, I love a challenge. It's why I regularily fly most of the EW planes in the LW arena, but I also love the Spitfire. Always have and probably always will.
Did you know that the Spit was the only fighter in production at the beginning of WWII that was still in production at the end of the war? Or that it wasn't retired from service until the 1950's? Probably not. You were probably too busy trying to figure out how to cheat at history class to bother.
What's the sport? Go fly into a you on ten, even in a Spit, and tell me how you do. I flew into two of them a few nights ago and landed 3 kills between the two flights. Not great but I had to exit the second fight early with a pilot wound. Of course YOU probably wouldn't do that without your cheat code.
-
On the other hand, between two experienced pilots who understand this game, when one chooses an FM-2, and the other a Spit16, the former has opted for a greater challenge. It doesn't make him a more skilled pilot (perhaps the Spit16 pilot is more skilled), but it is what I call having a bigger pair.
A bigger pair? What a laugh. That's the same as saying I fly a xxx so I have more courage. Courage in a cartoon airplane game? Give me a fluff'n break.
If you really measure your manhood and/or courage by what you fly in a cartoon airplane GAME you need a life.
-
Again, I fail to see anything resembling an argument from you baldeagl... just a bunch of invective and rhetoric. :rolleyes:
But if you're making the claim that nothing we do in a game reflects on our character, simply because it is a game, then I would say few people enjoy playing games with you.
-
On the other hand, between two experienced pilots who understand this game, when one chooses an FM-2, and the other a Spit16, the former has opted for a greater challenge.
OK, I'll give you an argument. If, in the case above, the FM2 pilot flys safely within his ring of hoardlettes and the Spit pilot flys alone into overwhelmingly superior odds I would argue that, in your terms, the Spit pilot has a "bigger pair".
-
Yes, I should have said "other things being equal." I figured that would be assumed.
-
Yes, I should have said "other things being equal." I figured that would be assumed.
The fact is that other things will never be equal. I know for myself that I'm willing to take far more chances and fly into far more "dangerous" situations with a more capable plane than I am with a less capable plane. This is true of the vast majority of the player base.
To put it in better perspective, the guy in the FM2 seeking one on ones or flying near his base or CV or near a group of friendlies is no more daring than the Spit or La pilot upping to break a field cap or even coming in from above a capped field. How many FM2's or Hurri I's do you see doing that in the LW MA's?
People will only fly to their comfort level. And their comfort level will change depending on what they fly. Just because one guy flys an FM2 and another flys a Spit or La doesn't mean one has more balls than the other.
-
Eagl,
No matter how you try and dice the argument flying,getting kills and surviving in a Spit16,Pony,D9 etc is far easier then a P40. That's why there is eny. Low eny fighters are the games equivalent to furballing in easy mode. Yes you can fly into a furball in your spit16, bag a couple kills and survive, but it takes more skill to fly into that same furball in a P40 get two kills and survive.
Some of us prefer more of a challange by flying a high eny fighter in the MA. Others prefer low eny fighters for what ever reason they choose. Each to their own. But I will always <S> someone who lands 3 kills in a P40 compared to someone landing 13 in a Spit16.
<S>...-Gixer
-
LOL, ok I'll package my comment differently--I've seen guys who can jump into a 1 on 5 with a D-25 or an A8 and wipe the floor with them---If you forever fly La7's or Spit16's you can never be that guy
-
LOL, ok I'll package my comment differently--I've seen guys who can jump into a 1 on 5 with a D-25 or an A8 and wipe the floor with them---If you forever fly La7's or Spit16's you can never be that guy
Ive never seen anyone survive a 5 on 1 unless they ran and spread the fight out. Most of all in a D-25 or an A8 cause they are one dimensional.
I dont care if your the cartoon version of Jimmy Doolittle your not going to turn fight with success in a FW-run90 A8.
They are both B,Z, and run. So I'll pass on "being that guy".
-
I've seen Redtop and Widewing do such with D25 (prolly half-dozen guys from 56th are also that good), and Ive seen Rthus do such in A8..alas, I think he's finally quit for good. Also...
Neither D25 nor A8 can 'run' very far from La7 or spit16---
-
I've seen Redtop and Widewing do such with D25 (prolly half-dozen guys from 56th are also that good), and Ive seen Rthus do such in A8..alas, I think he's finally quit for good. Also...
Neither D25 nor A8 can 'run' very far from La7 or spit16---
In a turn fight? Yeah sure if they are picking off targets while cherry picking but nobody is going to survive turn fighting a A8 against 5 Spit-16s.
The A8 is faster then the Spit. Even on the deck. While the Spit out accelerates it the run90 out dives it.
The run90 is only dangerous if it has alt on you, which they always do. Its a very dangerous bomber killer but a turn fighter?
The LA-7 has about a 10 mph speed advantage on the deck. If an A8 starts off with enough E then he can run from an LA-7 a long, long time. Generally when you get an A8 on the deck flattened out they are very easy kills.
I know these two guys you mentioned are good. But I doubt they would agree with your assessment.
-
They surely wont win every time, MIGHT win one such engagement out of 10....but that ONE win counts for more than a hundred easy kills with an La7 or a 16, IMO
-
They surely wont win every time, MIGHT win one such engagement out of 10....but that ONE win counts for more than a hundred easy kills with an La7 or a 16, IMO
And many agree with you. :aok
<S>...-Gixer
-
the old saying goes dammed if ya do! dammed if ya dont! people will complain ,just for the sake of it !no matter the plane, tactic, or use of asset( ie ack hugging, space munki alt}things like this best way to beat this problem ?>> detune 200 and squelch :salute
-
<-------- Tour 100 Spit XVI Dweeb (And proud of it)
[EDIT] I just watched The Battle of Britan again the other night for the first time in like 100 years. LOVED those take-off and landing scenes with the Hurris and Spits and makes me want to take it to some 109's (except my own K4 :) ).
BTW, why don't we have grass/dirt landing strips/airfields? I bet there were a lot more of those during the war than paved.
But we do have grass/dirt strips that you can land on but since it might be 0.01 of an inch off the pavement, you would have a ditch. I frigging never could grasp why you can land anywhere on an airfield or vehicle base and get a ditch because you just weren't entirely on the pavement. It seems that all fields are strictly modeled on aircraft carriers for landing purposes. But why can we take off out of a hanger and run across that grass and get a successful takeoff? Oh and since we've drifted off topic anyways, BOB was a great movie and those merlin engine 109's and HE-111's were awesome. Was a great shot when that nose gunner on one of the 111's took it in the eye.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
PS.. I believe BOB was released in 1969 and had Michael York, Michael Cain, and Christopher Plummer. I've still got a copy of it on VHS and I know that it was released on DVD also.
-
Sorry Bj229er and Anaxogoras. I might have gone a little over the edge last night.
I had a few drinks and was frustrated to boot as I went online and my "I had a dream" post came partially true. Everytime I saddled up on an opponent, my guns would spurt two bullets then quit. It took me 4 deaths of testing and off-line testing to confirm. I guess the Saitek ST290 Pro is a POS. The main trigger quit after 2 months!
Off to Best buy this morning to try an Aviator, then RMA this to newegg for replacement.
I still say flying a FM2 vs a Spit XVI doesn't give you bigger balls. Mine are exactly the same size as they were the last time I flew a Hurri I, F4F, A6M2, Spit I, BF109E-4 or any other EW ride. I can post exact dimensions if you'de like :)
-
LOL, ok I'll package my comment differently--I've seen guys who can jump into a 1 on 5 with a D-25 or an A8 and wipe the floor with them---If you forever fly La7's or Spit16's you can never be that guy
Why?
-
I can post exact dimensions if you'de like
EEEEEeeuuuuueeeeeewwwwww that's ok :O
-
EEEEEeeuuuuueeeeeewwwwww that's ok :O
He's just itching to try out his new micrometer. ;)
-
I still say flying a FM2 vs a Spit XVI doesn't give you bigger balls. Mine are exactly the same size as they were the last time I flew a Hurri I, F4F, A6M2, Spit I, BF109E-4 or any other EW ride. I can post exact dimensions if you'de like :)
wow!! mad props!!
do the rest of you realize how hard it is to reserve time on an electron 'scope?
:aok
-
Ive never seen anyone survive a 5 on 1 unless they ran and spread the fight out. Most of all in a D-25 or an A8 cause they are one dimensional.
I dont care if your the cartoon version of Jimmy Doolittle your not going to turn fight with success in a FW-run90 A8.
They are both B,Z, and run. So I'll pass on "being that guy".
I've done it many times in a Spit. 5 on 1, if I give you details on what happened, I'll "come across as condescending". In short, I had 4 kills within a minute and a half, and the 5th ran.
I've turn fought in 152's against 2 La7's, shot one down and the other turned tail and ran. I rtb'd with OddCAF who couldn't believe what had just happened.
I realize I suck, but it ISN'T the plane, it's the person behind it.
-
He's just itching to try out his new megcrometer. ;)
Corrected.
-
Your still itching though. ;)
-
Ummm...The FM2 v. Spit16 thing is actually a terrible example. This is because, the FM2 turns tighter, and the average pilot, especially if he is exclusively a Spit man, knows little of E fighting and mainly fights by hauling back on the stick. So the FM2 can actually be a typical Spit16 pilot's worst nightmare, it will tend to get on his six and stay there unless the Spit guy runs.
It is NOT an amazing feat of pilot whoop-de-doo to win a turnfight with an EW bird against a LW one, IF that EW bird happens to have a miniscule turn radius compared to whatever LW brick it is fighting.
-
Sorry Bj229er and Anaxogoras. I might have gone a little over the edge last night.
I had a few drinks and was frustrated to boot as I went online and my "I had a dream" post came partially true. Everytime I saddled up on an opponent, my guns would spurt two bullets then quit. It took me 4 deaths of testing and off-line testing to confirm. I guess the Saitek ST290 Pro is a POS. The main trigger quit after 2 months!
Off to Best buy this morning to try an Aviator, then RMA this to newegg for replacement.
I still say flying a FM2 vs a Spit XVI doesn't give you bigger balls. Mine are exactly the same size as they were the last time I flew a Hurri I, F4F, A6M2, Spit I, BF109E-4 or any other EW ride. I can post exact dimensions if you'de like :)
:lol Ok baldeagl, no hard feelings of course... What if I said flying a P-40 gives you bigger cartoon balls? :rofl
-
Actually agree with a few points there.
For all the bashing on the La-7, I rarely get killed by them.
And, for all the raving about how uber they are, I've tried flying them a bit this tour. I don't find it a particularly easy plane to fly well. Those LE slats bop the plane all over the place and the guns are teh suxor. I can't hit crap with them.
I strongly prefer the Yak-9U over the La-7.
I dunno, I just don't find the La-7 as uber as everyone makes out. Maybe I just suck in it.
Spot on, for me too. I'd infinately rather see an LA-7 come into the fight in a position to threaten me than a Yak...
<S>
-
Ummm...The FM2 v. Spit16 thing is actually a terrible example. This is because, the FM2 turns tighter, and the average pilot, especially if he is exclusively a Spit man, knows little of E fighting and mainly fights by hauling back on the stick. So the FM2 can actually be a typical Spit16 pilot's worst nightmare, it will tend to get on his six and stay there unless the Spit guy runs.
It is NOT an amazing feat of pilot whoop-de-doo to win a turnfight with an EW bird against a LW one, IF that EW bird happens to have a miniscule turn radius compared to whatever LW brick it is fighting.
So before the Arena Split, me landing pelts of 2 La7's, a Niki and a Spixteen, while in a Spit Mk. 1 isn't something? 3 of them were well known sticks. FM2's don't stand a chance when I'm in a Ki-61. Well, lazs is the exception to this rule.
-
My stats from Tour 97 where I was trying to fly mostly Russian planes:
47 kills 16 deaths in a Yak 9U K/D = 2.9
38 kills 7 deaths in an La 7 K/D = 5.4
I'd be interested to know other players' stats. Based on my experience...the La7 is uber.
-
Based on my experience...the La7 is uber.
It is uber, in the hands of someone capable (such as yourself).
-
This tour I have
killed 6 La-7s, and have been killed by them 0 times.
killed 8 Spit16s, and have been killed by them 1 time when I was in a 110G doing ground attack.
The main reason for these stats is that I am rarely fighting below 5k ft, where both of these "uber" rides perform the best. Whenever I see an La-7 I make sure to get up to 10k ft real quickly: problem solved.
-
So before the Arena Split, me landing pelts of 2 La7's, a Niki and a Spixteen, while in a Spit Mk. 1 isn't something? 3 of them were well known sticks. FM2's don't stand a chance when I'm in a Ki-61. Well, lazs is the exception to this rule.
Oh, wasting stuff with .303s is always challenging, anything besides the canopy shot is nigh useless. And EW planes tend to draw gangs. (Which is illogical, they are usually highly maneuverable planes being flown by a skilled sticks...the LAST place one would go looking for an easy kil) Spit1 has a respectable edge on all three as a turner though, so if a co-E angles fight can be forced, Spit1 will maul 'em.
As for FM2s vs. Teis, I'm guessing it is the pilot, not the plane.
Planes I think it takes an AHII genius to fly successfully against the LW set consistently are the ones that are double disadvantaged, they both turn worse and are slower than many ubiquitous LW aircraft. Right off the top of my head, the FW-190As, the A-20, Mossie, P-40, arguably even the P-38 fits this criteria. I could probably think of a few more. . There are some other aircraft like the Stuka, Val, and SBD which are nifty turners but are so under-armed that people winning dogfights in them have to be amazing snipers.
-
Psst! Here may be the key to the whole thing.
Fly whatever the heck you have fun in. Go ahead and fly it however you see fit. keep in mind that if it really matters to you that in the end the crowd can recognize who the good sticks are and who the guys are getting there 'attaboys' for landing a dozen vulches.
As Phan is apt to remind me often, I'm a midwar plane snob in my 38G. I don't care what you are driving as I'll try and fight ya in it. If you get me, more power to you, and if I get you, well....you need to work on your 'flying' as I shouldn't be able to shoot you down :)
One of the interesting things to me in Latewar is if I see an FM2, I figure it's probably Laz. If I see a Ki-61, I figure it's probably karaya. If I see a 109F it's probably Aspen, in particular if it's got a yellow nose on it. If it's a black and white nosed 51D down low, it's more then likely OlDemon. P40E and it's FiltH or FlyinFin. If it's a K4 it's probably a Muppet. If it's a 38J I'll watch him closer then a 38L as he's probably looking for a fight instead of bombing a hanger. If its an F4U1A I'll watch closer then a 1D for the same reasons. I think we all tend to watch for those folks and worry a lot less about the rest.
If it's an LA7 or Spit 16 I hope they stay and fight but I don't count on it. If it's high D9s, Tiffies and Ponies, I figure I'll just spend my time avoiding the BnZ and hope they get bored.
But again, I'm a 38G snob and I'll give ya my best shot regardless of how and what you fly cause I'll probably be lower and I'm too slow to run :)
-
I cant even remember the last time I've seen an LA7 in the MA..
I had to check my extended stats (IE ONLY OF COURSE! :) ) to see. im 7 and 5 against them, in like 90 hours this month.. compared to spit16's and 51d's, and even p38's and 190's, the la7 is an oddity!
-
My stats from Tour 97 where I was trying to fly mostly Russian planes:
47 kills 16 deaths in a Yak 9U K/D = 2.9
38 kills 7 deaths in an La 7 K/D = 5.4
I'd be interested to know other players' stats. Based on my experience...the La7 is uber.
Based on my experience the Yak is more uber... :t
<S>...-Gixer
-
Oh, wasting stuff with .303s is always challenging, anything besides the canopy shot is nigh useless. And EW planes tend to draw gangs. (Which is illogical, they are usually highly maneuverable planes being flown by a skilled sticks...the LAST place one would go looking for an easy kil) Spit1 has a respectable edge on all three as a turner though, so if a co-E angles fight can be forced, Spit1 will maul 'em.
As for FM2s vs. Teis, I'm guessing it is the pilot, not the plane.
Planes I think it takes an AHII genius to fly successfully against the LW set consistently are the ones that are double disadvantaged, they both turn worse and are slower than many ubiquitous LW aircraft. Right off the top of my head, the FW-190As, the A-20, Mossie, P-40, arguably even the P-38 fits this criteria. I could probably think of a few more. . There are some other aircraft like the Stuka, Val, and SBD which are nifty turners but are so under-armed that people winning dogfights in them have to be amazing snipers.
A well placed 2 second burst on a wing saws it right off.
That is the MAJORITY of it, the pilot, not the plane.
-
So before the Arena Split, me landing pelts of 2 La7's, a Niki and a Spixteen, while in a Spit Mk. 1 isn't something? 3 of them were well known sticks. FM2's don't stand a chance when I'm in a Ki-61. Well, lazs is the exception to this rule.
Conversely ... KI-61s don't stand a chance when I am in an FM2 ... :D
xdak, another BK is pure magic in an FM2 ... and another old buddy from the 13th TAS ... Sax ... is one hell of an FM2 stick.
-
Conversely ... KI-61s don't stand a chance when I am in an FM2 ... :D
xdak, another BK is pure magic in an FM2 ... and another old buddy from the 13th TAS ... Sax ... is one hell of an FM2 stick.
You still got what I was getting at though. I rarely see you in the MA anymore Slappy. :rock
-
You still got what I was getting at though. I rarely see you in the MA anymore Slappy. :rock
Well ... besides it being a total fluster cluck inhabited by very angry people ... I don't get very good frame rates in there, and I don't know why ... I have a nice V-card.
:salute
-
i skydive far too much cause of standing in the "idont HO line" but now its when in Rome do as bla bla spend less time under the silk now and the ethic sting subsides detune 200 iand like magic your not an anything Dweeb any more im loyal too my Nikki ... and my.. 51D for attack well then theres my f6f... however theres my... {kidding}
-
nevermind
-
no opinon, just wanted to get my 100th post in.
-
I've done it many times in a Spit. 5 on 1, if I give you details on what happened, I'll "come across as condescending". In short, I had 4 kills within a minute and a half, and the 5th ran.
I've turn fought in 152's against 2 La7's, shot one down and the other turned tail and ran. I rtb'd with OddCAF who couldn't believe what had just happened.
I realize I suck, but it ISN'T the plane, it's the person behind it.
I'll tell a story on your behalf since you are being humble. Several of us were shot down and we left Karaya all alone over an enemy Abase. We all upped to fly the 30 miles back to that base and asked what was going on over there. He said the 6-7 fighters that were there, are still there. We said that we would hurry as fast as we could. He says, "Don't worry about." We are almost there and here he comes flying back toward our base. He had shot them all down... I giggled in a silly fashion and wished that I were 20% as good as that. Its the pilot, not the plane.
-
I really don't see the parallel, especially since no argument has been made for it. On the other hand, between two experienced pilots who understand this game, when one chooses an FM-2, and the other a Spit16, the former has opted for a greater challenge. It doesn't make him a more skilled pilot (perhaps the Spit16 pilot is more skilled), but it is what I call having a bigger pair. And this use of the phrase fits very well with agreed upon public usage. Maybe you disagree with the phrase itself, but there are many others that would substitute well, i.e. any phrase that means taking the path of greater resistance. You wouldn't disagree that some aircraft in this game are more challenging to succeed in than others, and you wouldn't disagree with calling them a path of greater resistance; well, why do you so vehemently resist attributing aircraft selection in this game to character traits?
The only fallacy here is what's called a "horse-laugh" or appeal to ridicule, which you made above.
hmm ... what if the spit 16 is upping from a vulched field and the FM-2 is coming from the CV ack umbrella ?
-
I'll tell a story on your behalf since you are being humble. Several of us were shot down and we left Karaya all alone over an enemy Abase. We all upped to fly the 30 miles back to that base and asked what was going on over there. He said the 6-7 fighters that were there, are still there. We said that we would hurry as fast as we could. He says, "Don't worry about." We are almost there and here he comes flying back toward our base. He had shot them all down... I giggled in a silly fashion and wished that I were 20% as good as that. Its the pilot, not the plane.
and then you realized it wasn't me and you woke up to go to work.