Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Rambo Fan on June 04, 2008, 05:33:15 PM
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This question has been bugging me for some time now, and i need a few experts who know which plane is maneuverable, strong armor, good armament and goes fast. It seems like every time i go on a p-51 at an altitude of 15k, i find an enemy bomber out of nowhere. Either im missing (not doubting it...), or .50 caliber rounds just won't do the job fast enough. I was able to kill the B-17G, but was left with 550 rounds or so. Anyone have a good plane able to blow a bomber in pieces? Don't say Hurricane, i tried it, it has exceptional armor. I need something FAST, MANEUVERABLE, HEAVY ARMOR, and a good ARMAMENT!
Any ideas? Im new, so hey hows it going for you today? :D
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All of those qualities in one aircraft is impossible. The best interceptor is the Fw190A8, fairly fast with extremely heavy guns and no radiator to be damaged.
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TA 152
190D
Tempest
C205...my personal favorite.
Me262
109k4
F4U-C
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Never tried it, saw it had uum... what was it, 30mm for armament right? Went like 250, 300mph? Im gonna go try it. Thanks motherland!
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TA 152
190D
Tempest
C205...my personal favorite.
Me262
109k4
F4U-C
TA is an exceptional plane to start with, bad armor, good speed, to wide of a plane lol. Last Me262 i tried i had to go like 7 times up and down because it went too fast. 109K4 didn't turn fast enough, F4U-C isn't as good as its brother the F4U-1A. Tempest i think is personally good for dogfighting, if you get lucky and hit the other fighter. 190D, i haven't tried it. :)
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Me 262.....if your below 20k the Tempest is awesome as well.
Strip
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IMO tactics are far more important than firepower and armor when attacking bombers. I can kill a B-24 in an F4U-1A with less than a 1-2 second burst. It's all a matter of where you attack from and where you aim.
If you're flying up his tail, first you're going to take a TON of return fire. Second, if you're firing into his tail there's a good probability your rounds are going into that big, hollow fuselage doing very little damage. Eventually you'll put enough lead in to break something, but you're wasting ammo doing so.
The two best targets on bombers are the cockpit or the wingroots. The cockpit is obvious. Kill the pilot and bomber goes pop. If your aim is good you can cap the pilot with even a half-second burst of 6x.50cal (ask AKDogg about the time he killed three B-24s, I think it was, in one pass with an F4U-1). The wingroots are probably the best, because it's a large target and easy to hit, and depending on the bomber there's any number of components that can be catastrophic to take out.
First, you have the wing spar. Break that, wing pops off, plane goes down. However my favorite is B-24s and Lancasters, and to a lesser extent the B-17, which all place a fuel tank between the inner engine on each side and the fuselage. One good gunnery pass and you'll have him on fire. Leave him and repeat on the other two planes in the formation.
As for approach angle, the best is to position yourself above the formation. You can approach him from the tail, just leave yourself plenty of altitude 'cause he'll probably be spraying you if you're within D1.5k. Rock your wings to pick up his position, and when you're above him roll over and make as near-to-vertical a drop as you can. Aim between the inside engine and fuselage and let it rip.
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BF110 with rockets. :D Learn how to use the rockets you'll blow some bombers away with just 2 of them placed correctly. I'f you miss you've got heavy cannons to waste em with. I've gone as high as 25k and chased a set down though it was a lot of work. Spit 14 is great to take up and lurk at high alt with but ammo is an issue as well as fuel management. I've also used the P47's, mainly the N model, to go up high and lurk but that's like an all night adventure just to get to alt with that thing. Take the max gun package, full fuel and drops, then go make lunch, take a nap and come back you'll be up to 20k or so. :lol
Like some have said, it's all preference, once you find what works for you, you'll probably be hooked on that plane only up high. :aok
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p47
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P51 is excellent buff killer. :aok
NOT
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163....if you can aim the spud launchers....
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I doubt it, i barely get GV's with rockets, a flying airplane? Much less chance... :cry
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Hmm... it depends what alt.
Well med alt (10-14k) I would take up a P-39Q and it's 37mm anti-tank gun.
Above that, I'd take:
P-47D40
F4U-1C
F4U-4
190D9
190A8
152
262
Temp
Typh
and.....
109K-4 (30mm does some good)
I usually aim for the wing root or the cockpit (cockpit shots ensure a quick kill and explosion. But you have to come from above or below) :aok
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I would say the 190A8. Thats the one that gave me fits most often.
But far more important then plane type is your technique.
Thing about the 190 is guys arent that concerned with losing one. The ME-262 is a very dangerous airplane but its a bit delicate and most guys fly them like glass cause of the perk cost involved. But 4 30mms are a terror if you allow the thing in close.
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G14 With gondolas. Faster than the A8 and can hold its own against other fighters.
TA152 if you go over 20k.
262 is probably the best but as a noob you dont want to be flying that.
Typhoon isnt bad.
You have to find the right comprimise. The 50 cal planes do very well with a height and speed advantage, aim for the wing/root engine and you'll more than likely get them burning.
Practice makes perfect.
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F4Us are good, any P47 with 8x.50s is devastating. just make sure you're doing 400+ on each pass, aim for the wing root or inner engine and you're golden :aok oh and patience is the key - rush it and your closure speed will be too low and you will get pinged.
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190A8 packs a punch, and is reasonably fast, and no radiator, as well as very good roll rate.
The Hizookas are also very good, so Tiffy/Tempest, but you tend to get hit in the radiator. But the Chog...well...;)
If you wanna go heavy from a long range, try the mossie or the 110.
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Too bad the Pratt&Whitney, and come to think of it, BMW radials modeled in AHII are apparently made of paper-mache, otherwise C-Hog and Jug would be the two best "already there, might as well kill some buffs" interceptors in the game at higher-alts, although they are certainly not short-notice quick climbers.
Don't forget the Mossi (low alts) and P-38 (higher alts). If time constraints mean you absolutely must do the tail-chase attack, then centerline firepower and team work can give a marginal chance of one of you landing telling hits.
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If your aim sucks:
Dora
152
262 (third because you have less time to set up the shot)
If you can shoot the 30mm jack hammers:
262
152
Dora
Be patient with the two FW's and wait till you can manage at least 400-450mph in a diving attack (if you're not there already in the 262, then you deserve to die). I try to target the inner engine/wing root while pulling some health alpha. Then pass under your victim. He should be burning by then. :aok Plan on losing the radiator in the FW's, so you better know how to limp/glide home.
Be advised, some guys take this personal, and will chase you back to your base if you're crippled. Nothing sucks more than having a B-17 on your 6 and having to sacrifice all your E and ditch (or worse) to avoid him. :D
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If you can shoot the 30mm jack hammers:
262
152
Dora
Dora has no 30mm.
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Dora has no 30mm.
Yeah I know. Was just elevating the two on my list that did if you could shoot the spud cannons. Personally, I can't hit squat with them. :cry
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In order:
FW190A-8
BF110G-2
BF109K-4
ME163B
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centerline at long range = Mossie.
And she is not slow at high alt.....
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P-39s do not have anti-tank guns/ammo.
These weapons are air to air.
Also, I have unloaded 5+ 37mm rounds into some bombers and only gotten the assist after seeing many fireballs. It's really not a good bomber killer, IMO.
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190A-8 is the choice.
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My favorite for buff hunting are the g-14 with gondolas, 110 and 262, but I never find bombers when I take those up. I kill most buffs in F4U's mostly -1A and -4. My convergence is set to 375 and I just aim for the engines.
If there are guys around that I think will kill it while it's on fire or falling I'll just hit the fuselage near the cockpit till it explodes. I can usually kill 6 like that.
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Mossie is best IMHO. combines great range with extremely heavy firepower, ease of aim (nose mounted guns), climb rate, speed at altitude, and dogfighting ability. Also, it has two engines, making for a safer plane (sort of). Although it has radiators, so does the P-38 and i dont hear people complain about that.
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P-38 is pretty good buff killer but as Saxman pointed out, all the firepower in the world won't matter if you use bad tactics.
ack-ack
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Well, if you are at the 6 with a slow closure and have to hammer it out with the tailgunner, my money is with the mossie...4 Hizookas in the nose.....
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... if you are at the 6 with a slow closure and have to hammer it out with the tailgunner...
... you're doing it wrong ;)
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I know :D
but then, nothing beats the Hizoo....
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I made a post "best way to kill b-24s and b-17s" gotten some good replies. Also killed b-17 with Spit 1. :O
"Quantity has its own quality"-Joseph Stalin. I like the 109K-4 because bombers are so big its not that hard to hit with the tater gun.
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Well, at range, nothing beats a quad-Hizoo in the nose.....
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Well, at range, nothing beats a quad-Hizoo in the nose.....
That's probably true but the German iron is a lot less resistant to damage than any of the Brit machines. I got so used to the A-8 being able to take a beating that, for a while, all I ever did was attack from the direct 6. I could (still can) take a wing off at 800 with the 30mm's. Mostly, the damage to my A-8 consisted of an oil leak forcing me to fly (or glide) home with three pelts. My K/D doing this wasn't great but still in the 8-10 range.
What I'm saying is, you can pretty much sit in the middle of the gunfire with those German birds and they mostly just shrug it off.
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The Mossie is a whole hell of a lot tougher since its revised damage model was done. Its only weakness now is pilot wounds, other than that it is a very tough airplane.
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German iron is a lot less resistant to damage
I think you mean "a lot more resistant" or "a lot less susceptible"? :aok
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I think you mean "a lot more resistant" or "a lot less susceptible"? :aok
Correct.
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one tactic i can tell ou to be sure to avoid........DO NOT ATTACK FROM THE SIX. everyne seems to like to do this, and when they start taking hits, they wiggle around like that's gonna change anything. just last night i got 3 kills in a ju88 because of this. you noobs.....LISTEN to the advice these guys are giving you. the only thing that really makes bombers fun is the guys that are good ata attacking them. remember::if you're at his six, you're already dead,,,you just don't know it yet.
<<S>>
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F4U4.
Fast, uber zoom/slashing attacks, 50's plenty potent.
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I'm in a bomber squadron. I fly B-17's almost exclusively. Most of the bombers i lose are shot down by P51's overwhelmingly. The other planes don't even come close. I've also had my entire formation shot down by a single P51. Once i was bounced by a P51 i didn't see coming. Before i could get into the tail gun position and shoot back, one bomber was blown out of the sky and the other drone was on fire.
You may be experiencing a "convergence" problem. Possibly your convergence setting doesn't match up with your tactics. You need an expert in these areas to help you work the bugs out, because i guarantee you if this IS the problem.. switching to another plane won't help.
As for planes with cannons, i lose very few bombers to these. Spits and 109's don't impress me at all. The FW 190 A8 demands respect. It's a deadly opponent and about all you can do is start blasting away at 1.5 range and pray the pilot is a newbie who breaks off when he hears the Tink, Tink, Tink of bullets on his fuselage. Of course knocking down a FW at 1.5 range is nearly impossible.
Many of my fighter kills come from pilots who dive under a B-17 and forget the threat of the bottom ball turret. This gun position is extremely deadly, because from this vantage point you're looking down at the entire body of the enemy fighter. Not a cross section. Imagine how easy a target that is to hit. Especially at 600 to 800 feet.
There you have it. You have the honest opinion of your adversary. A bomber pilot.
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Waldron recommending a guy speak with an "expert" on tactics?
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,237571.0.html
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Not much thought has been given to altitude. I occasionally find bomber formations well above 20k, sometimes above 25k. For these, the 190A-8 is not a good choice. Why? because it is a slow climber at those heights and accelerates poorly. If you're not already at altitude, forget the 190A-8 and consider a 109 with gondolas.
There's many aircraft that are good for dealing with bombers. I like the P-47s. While the D-40 offers the best climb at low to medium altitude, I prefer the N model for higher buffs due to its tremendous speed. Eight .50s will flame any bomber with one pass. Plus, it has offers a far greater ammo load than the P-51D.
I also like the F4U-1C for buffs up to 25k. Good speed, durable, top tier firepower, lot's of ammunition.
For low to mid altitude bombers, anything with multiple cannons, or one very large cannon is adequate.
However, as has been mentioned, poor tactics will offset the best fighter.
My regards,
Widewing
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Darn it. I got so caught up diagnosing your shooting problem and aircraft choices i forgot to mention anything about bomber weaknesses. Fighter pilots concentrate on angles of attack and gun arcs and gun positions, and fighter attributes and deficiencies. Blah, blah, blah. Yet they miss the biggest blind spot of all, one common to all heavy bombers.
In order to drop bombs efficiently. The pilot MUST BE in the bomb sight the last ten seconds before the bomb drop. This is especially true if the target is small like an Airfield AA gun or hanger.. or if it is a maneuvering Carrier. Towns and factories are a different matter and command less attention. So all you have to do is follow a formation to its target and attack during the bomb run.
Of course a smart bomber pilot would abort a bomb run if he was being stalked by an nme fighter close to the target. A smart pilot wouldn't even consider approaching a target with nme CAP over it without a gunner attached. But in the 4 months I've been playing in the MA, I've rarely seen it happen. I've only flown once with a gunner attached, and that was with a friend who was NOT a member of my squadron.
You'd think if six people in a bomber squadron showed up on squad night to fly missions.. Three of them would fly as pilot/bombadiers and the other three would fly as attached gunners. All, or nearly all the bombers would reach the target and return home safely. Instead, each pilot takes a formation and two thirds of the bombers are shot down over the target.
Why is it done this way ? I don't know, i don't have any answer. People tell me I don't understand the game, or, the "Warrior" cult (whatever the #&*# that is) LOL.
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:huh
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Darn it. I got so caught up diagnosing your shooting problem and aircraft choices i forgot to mention anything about bomber weaknesses. Fighter pilots concentrate on angles of attack and gun arcs and gun positions, and fighter attributes and deficiencies. Blah, blah, blah. Yet they miss the biggest blind spot of all, one common to all heavy bombers.
Most pilots also forget the "blind" spots which are not blind at all, but are completely safe. In AH all guns are slaved to the manned position. If that position cannot aim correctly, no other gun will. This usually refers to the wings plane of the bomber.
Lets imagine the fighter will be coming in from above and the side - the gunner will be in the top turret. If you are pointing under the bomber he needs to lead you in order to hit, but he can't lower his guns below level. So, if he sees you coming and start shooting at long rage, you start diving and he will soon be unable to aim. If he changes gun position he will be disorientated for a second and needs to aim again - by then you will be landing hits on him from short range. The very close passage will make it impossible for him to track you and his guns will not converge, so if he does hit, it is only with 2 0.5s.
You drop slightly below his wings and egress. He will now be in the ball position trying to shoot your ass. When you see the tracers flashing, you initiate a moderate zoom. Again, he can't lead you because he can't raise his guns from the ball. By the time he is back in the top position and aimed, you are out of his range.
Stay away from his rear gun. It has a cone of fire that is not very restricted in elevations.
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Yeah I know. Was just elevating the two on my list that did if you could shoot the spud cannons. Personally, I can't hit squat with them. :cry
The 30mm's drop like a rock and have a shorter range than a 20mm. Get in closer and aim higher.
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109G-14 with the gondala's scare me if i"m in a buff.
Ta-152, 190D-9, Tempest, 109K-4 and the P-38 are also aircraft I look out for.
also, 109G-14 with 30mm cannon and the 2 gondala's is my choice of aircraft for buff interception.
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190A8 with the 20 and 30 gun pack. Best by far, fast, good armor, good protection, good dive speed, etc.
My other choices:
Chog - 4 20mms, fast and a good dive speed
Ta152 - 2 20mms and 1 30mm cannon, good above 20K
110 - also good, but it's a huge target and I've never been able to hold E real well while attacking buffs.
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I guess it all depends on the arena you fly in. In MW the 110 for me is the best. Lots of people like the 190A-8 but it's only available in LW. I also don't like planes without cannons. B-17's and Lanc's seem to suck the 50's up when I try to kill them with MG armed planes.
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I guess it all depends on the arena you fly in. In MW the 110 for me is the best.
MW? 109G-2 or G-6 with gondolas. Get quick to alt and sufficient firepower to shred any buff.
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Hell, even without gondolas I've routinely taken out entire formations of b17s/b24s with just the 20mm nose gun and 13mm cowl MGs in a 109G-6.
I've taken out a spitfire AND 3 b-24s in a yak9u (that's 120 rounds of 20mm only)
P.S. 50 cals are just fine for bomber killing, as long as you get enough in the same spot. A good attack run is best suited to these guns. Cannons allow any half-arsed attack to land hits and score kills, but 50cals require a steady aim, a steady path to target, and a good aim (i.e. diving from above high 12 oclock and hitting the bombers with a nice solid burst that doesn't scatter from wingtip to wingtip)
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Hell, even without gondolas I've routinely taken out entire formations of b17s/b24s with just the 20mm nose gun and 13mm cowl MGs in a 109G-6.
I've taken out a spitfire AND 3 b-24s in a yak9u (that's 120 rounds of 20mm only)
P.S. 50 cals are just fine for bomber killing, as long as you get enough in the same spot. A good attack run is best suited to these guns. Cannons allow any half-arsed attack to land hits and score kills, but 50cals require a steady aim, a steady path to target, and a good aim (i.e. diving from above high 12 oclock and hitting the bombers with a nice solid burst that doesn't scatter from wingtip to wingtip)
all my attacks are 1/2 arse so I prefer cannons.
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To quote Adam Savage, "Well, THERE's yer problem!"
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I guess since most German planes especially the late war versions had cannons only The Luftwaffe must have been 1/2 arse as well. Just my observation. :huh
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You must remember that German aircraft development had them specifically designing planes to attemp to defeat the allied bomber attacks in a more single-minded way than any other country during the war which may just account for their particular usefullness for that type of work in AHII.
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You must remember that German aircraft development had them specifically designing planes to attemp to defeat the allied bomber attacks in a more single-minded way than any other country during the war which may just account for their particular usefullness for that type of work in AHII.
That was my point in a round about way. I was accused of being 1/2 arse for having to use cannons to take out buffs. From what I read it only took 3-4 well placed 30mm rounds to take out a B-17.
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P-39s do not have anti-tank guns/ammo.
These weapons are air to air.
Also, I have unloaded 5+ 37mm rounds into some bombers and only gotten the assist after seeing many fireballs. It's really not a good bomber killer, IMO.
Yea, its been happening to me like that lately. I was in on a set of B-24s in my -39Q, I fired 2 into the wing root (usually does the trick) and they didn't go down, when 10 minutes earlier, I shot down that pilots set of bombers using the same method. I ended up running out of ammo and had to finish off a 2nd one using my 2 .50s...
Usually, after 2 shots, the wing comes off with B-24s. I have killed lancs (exploded) with 3-5 shots in mid section.
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the yak 9t it makes bombers run away with its 37mm :O
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ta152h
190a8
are my top two picks
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the yak 9t it makes bombers run away with its 37mm :O
ok ok, you come at me with your yak and watch me run :rofl :rofl :rofl
i personally like the P47 and the F6F... very good survivability and loads of guns but they both seem to get fuel leaks easily
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the yak 9t it makes bombers run away with its 37mm :O
Bombers can run away?
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As has been said already in this thread, the real question shouldn't be what plane is best but rather what tactics are best. You can have a plane with a 155mm howitzer and still not bring down a bomber if you're using bad tactics.
ack-ack
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virtually any aircraft in our inventory can kill a bomber. you only need to learn tactics, as others have said.
search out nb, nkl5, lusche, murdr, serenity, and i think it was helbent that wiperd me out in lancs once in his p38.......
if they have the time and willingness to teach ya, they're all good buff killers.
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Bombers can run away?
It's not that they can run away more not being botherd with a long chase over 10k due to the lack of performance over this alt. B17,B26 etc If the buff's take the time to get over 10k I usually let them be. Normally only bother with ones going for something strategic like a CV.
Lanc by far absorbs the most rounds unless you hit wing/tail, everything else goes down to two or three hits.
<S>...-Gixer
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262= best, Its relativly easy to take out 2 or more of the bombers in a formation in 1 pass with some good gunnery. And lots of ammo.
152= great for the high alt stuff, fast and heavily armed, be weary of escorts.
109g14= My main ride in the mains so im used to the ballistics and can fight in it like nothing else.
p47 series= awsome for the low alt work, tons of ammo, great diver, decent fuel, high speed, and can hold its own once the bombers are gone.
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As has been said already in this thread, the real question shouldn't be what plane is best but rather what tactics are best. You can have a plane with a 155mm howitzer and still not bring down a bomber if you're using bad tactics.
ack-ack
Yep... pretty much sums it up. Even the average lethality of the 6 .50's can quickly bring down a bomber.
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Yep... pretty much sums it up. Even the average lethality of the 6 .50's can quickly bring down a bomber.
I bring down formation of lancs in a yak9u so anything is possible
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P-38 is pretty good buff killer but as Saxman pointed out, all the firepower in the world won't matter if you use bad tactics.
ack-ack
Worth repeating.
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One of the best buff killers in the game is a squad mate of mine & that is Challenge. He uses the 51d this is his choice of plane although that is irrelevant. It is the manner how he attacks them that makes him deadly. He will drop all three in a formation using about 40 rounds per plane & they will never get a hit on him. I am not going to tell you how he does it, but if you have been on the receiving end you will know how? Or at least left wondering how can I do that?
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All of those qualities in one aircraft is impossible. The best interceptor is the Fw190A8, fairly fast with extremely heavy guns and no radiator to be damaged.
A8 fan too for buff hunting. Tiff good too. If you get saddled up on a bomber formation's 6, doesn't much matter what you fly.
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This question has been bugging me for some time now, and i need a few experts who know which plane is maneuverable, strong armor, good armament and goes fast. It seems like every time i go on a p-51 at an altitude of 15k, i find an enemy bomber out of nowhere. Either im missing (not doubting it...), or .50 caliber rounds just won't do the job fast enough. I was able to kill the B-17G, but was left with 550 rounds or so. Anyone have a good plane able to blow a bomber in pieces? Don't say Hurricane, i tried it, it has exceptional armor. I need something FAST, MANEUVERABLE, HEAVY ARMOR, and a good ARMAMENT!
Any ideas? Im new, so hey hows it going for you today? :D
190A8