Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: John Curnutte on June 08, 2008, 11:38:06 PM
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Its amazing to me really when I hear that this plane is the best or that guy flys the best . it seems to me I have seen many great combos of both these kinds intertwinded together as one . There are pilots in P-40's that are outright fabulous and very dangerous in the MA , and guys who can just make P-51's work like a dream and so on and so forth . My thought is does a certian plane just ( fit ) a style of how a pilot flys and is a huge contributor to that persons successes . And while I do believe in the art of ACM in all of its forms , the constraints of the plane will not allow certain manuvers to be performed . So how long did it take some of you to find the ride that makes you perform well . And I'm keeping in mind that our favorite planes are not always the ones we fly best . Post your thoughts of this I'm interested in hearing what all of you think on this .
Thanks Nutte :devil
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I'm a team player and a base taker so the planes I use either help me de-ack fields, destroy buildings or escort missions. I fly them all well enough to get a kill in and consider myself an average pilot.
My stick settings seem to be set for turn planes. It seems that if I wanted to fly each type of plane equally I would have to tailor the settings for each of those groups.
Some choose their planes because they either turn, HO, or run away well. A persons choice of plane may also have something to do with their personality traits.
There are only a few planes that anyone can fly well right from the start, the rest take time and practice to master IMO.
It's also my opinion that in the right hands there are only 2 planes that can conquer all. The F4U's and P38's.... neither of which I'm good at one vs. one.
I started with the spits and worked my way through the list. Every month I try to learn at least one new one. Others I've given up on completely. (Boom and Zoomer's...just not my style)
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Mine changes up. Sometimes picking planes, sometimes turning planes. So I like to keep it in a little bit of both (F4Us, P-51B/D, P-47, Spit-5) My favs right there. But usually, my kills determine my wingmen. If they are really good and help me when I got enemies on my six, I return the favor.
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Here's the planes I fly the most (in order):
Spitfire Mk XVI
F6F-5
Bf 109K-4
Fw 190A-8
Hurricane Mk IID
And here's the planes I have my all time best (one camp) K/D rates in (in order):
Ju 87D-3
F6F-5
Bf 109G-2
Fw 190A-8
Fw 190D-9
And here's my best K/D rates over the past six months (in order):
Fw 190F-8
F6F-5
Spitfire Mk VIII
Bf 109G-2
La-7
I can't figue out why I do what I do.
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I swap planes pretty much every sortie. Keeps the game alive for me hehe..
From expanded:
F4U-1D 13
F4U-4 11
F6F-5 24
FM2 11
A6M5b 16
A6M2 5
N1K2 13
P-47-D25 7
P-51D 13
SeaFire 9
Bf 109G-14 5
Spitfire Mk VIII 11
Spitfire Mk XVI 20
Tempest 27
Typhoon IB 11
Bf 109G-14 5
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Good post Ive often thought about this as well.
I think some planes do fit people better than others. Where I have no desire to BnZ constantly, but do from time to time during a flight, I need a plane thats a little faster than the best turners, and can turn better than the fastest planes.
Most of the planes I use are US planes. Flaps seem best in them for the way I fly, plus they carry alot or ord. Ive always had better luck squeezing the most I can from an average plane, than I do using one at the ends of the spectrum like A6m2 or P51D.
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I seem to bounce from Yak9u, to Yak9T, to Zeke, all of which have more performance limits than thier "uber" counterparts. I very rarely fly a top end plane, and I feel silly when I do.
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My favorite is the 51D and B. Although you will see me in La s and 109s. Niki is my base defender.
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Going back to my days as a trainer I found that its easier initially for people to view a "dog fight" in a linear manner. The progression is normally from one of two extremes. A player initially starts with a more passive "B&Z" approach and flies a plane that performs well in that role. The flip side is the player whose initial instincts are to "dogfight" and gravitates to a T&B plane.
The "dogfighter" normally developes a more two dimensional approach with his primary point of reference being his front up view (which closely correlates with his lift vector). Regardless of his actual orientation in 3 dimensions his reference is the two dimensional relationship with his "target".
The "B&Zer" actually developes a better overall 3D awareness and comfort level in "unusual attitudes" as well as a greater SA. This is based on primarily tracking the "target" thru a wider range of views. He learns to orient on his target thru the rear quarter views and (if he has peddals or a twisty) the use of the rudder to reorient his lift vector.
This relates to the topic here as follows. If you "grew up" in the game as a dogfighter your more likely to be comfortable in a plane that excels in the turning circle and has excellent performance "in plane" with most cons. If you started as a B&Z fighter then planes with good rudder/elevator authority will be more comfortable.
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I generally switch planes per tour and fly a pair of aircraft, generally one for alt and boom and zoom and the other a dogfighter.
My style is simply when a horde's on the loose I go in picking mode, or even numbers I go towards dogfighting.
Right now im currently flying the 109 series as my main ride and love it.
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Normally my favorite plane is the D-40, although I haven't figured out how to survive in it yet.
Love the Avatar Rip :rock
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I seem to bounce from Yak9u, to Yak9T, to Zeke, all of which have more performance limits than thier "uber" counterparts. I very rarely fly a top end plane, and I feel silly when I do.
Egg... I'm gona have to come over so we can wing up on a few Spit 14 sorites. I miss those.
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I guess that i am a uber no skilled dweeb pilot..
Spitfire Mk XVI 31 2
Tempest 26 0
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The planes I fly the most are Typhs, SpitXIVs, Temps, 262s, P51s, Zeros, A20s, B26s, IL2s, F4Us, and the ol Ju87s.
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I guess that i am a uber no skilled dweeb pilot..
Spitfire Mk XVI 31 2
Tempest 26 0
No, your just a good gamer :lol
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<SNIP>
Right now im currently flying the 109 series as my main ride and love it.
As well you should! :aok
Up the irons!! :salute
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Interesting post:
I tend towards the Navy Birds for some reason. Back before every other con was a Spixteen, LA7, or Pony, I was in love with the FM2. I do remember mixing in a heavy dose of HurriIIc in these days also.
I'm not a patient type so I am usually found defending a base under heavy attack or upping from the nearest base to the furball or the field we are attacking. Thus I don't go for the planes that only hit their stride above 15-20k. My choice is also influenced by some strange need not to be in the best plane available (fastest-best guns-best turner) depending on the odds I'm expecting against me.
As the LW/MA mentality shifted more towards pick and run, I found the need for a little more speed which the F6F addressed acceptably for me while still allowing me to turnfight which is my preferred style of....play. Yet give me the ability to catch some of the runners as long as I have a little alt to trade. As well as give me the speed to run/extend long enough to maybe drag a few out of a horde before turning to fight them.
My current frustration with the uber rides has me evolving into the F4U series, a bird I've always loved and have recently learned to use fairly well. I can carry all the ord I want to target, chase down any Spixteen I see, and knife fight with the best of em. As long as I still have a little alt to trade for speed and the SA to recognize when i need to use it, I seem to make it out of the fray alive more than not!
I too have long used the NIKI for anti vulch/defense and have recently dabbled with the LA7 in order to catch the vulchers in their speedsters who run at the first sign of a fair fight emerging. :devil
This said, I like to play around with many various rides depending on my mood mostly.
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IL2 - cuz i love hoing vulchers and pickers around bussy caped bases, and with outside view,tough fuselage and 2x23mm deadly gunz, is the best tool for the job: It works well, ask CHAPPY !
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Bf 109K-4 87 11
Bf 109G-14 62 7
Bf 109G-6 45 1
Sherman VC 30 9
My rides this tour and kills alone - huge change considering I tend to switch rides per week or tour basis
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109g14. I fight low and slow.
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Lots of interesting posts here , I fly the Spit 16 alot but its not my favorite ride . I love the F4U series of fighters but don't fly them well , on the other hand the P-40 E has a place in my heart and I can do ok in it , still get shot down alot but it takes longer LOL . And while the LA or YAKs are very cool I don't fly them well at all . Its amusing how it works , with me anyways planes I like just don't fit well with my so called style at all and a whole bunch of the early war stuff does . I guess it would be a sort of re-training to adapt to these other fighters as the attributes of each can vary so much . Thanks for the comments guys .
Nutte
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Spit 8 primary fighter, F6F5 for Jabo work, Seafire for carrier based fighter, La-5 or Spit 5 for base defense. Primary GV is Wirbelwind for capped fields, or Ostwind if the bad guys have the Wirbel's longest range figured out. M-8 rolled for fast reconnaisance to town or enemy's field, and the Sherman Firefly if I have to duke it out on the ground. Been trying out the Yak 9 Unicorn model lately, but not sure where it fits into my bag of tricks. I kinda swap all over the place matching planes/vehicles strengths to the current situation.
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P38G
B25C
I like twin engined bombers apparently :)
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I make planes fly the way I want them, not the other way around.
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I've already expounded upon this very subject in some detail....ENJOY! :D
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,157411.0.html
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(http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL1132/3985165/18938532/320701351.jpg)
<S>...-Gixer
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Currently trying out the 38's - so far only the L - good fun (even if I suck even more than usual in it).
And ghi is right, he's a pain in the neck in the IL2...lol.....got a good hit on him, thought he was down, instead of breaking right, left etc, or above him, ooh no, flew straight over him....boom, tower... :D
Made me giggle tho....
<S>
Wurzel
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F4U-1A 35
F4U-1C 29
F4U-1D 8
F4U-4 17
F6F-5 20
I'm a Hog dweeb, took me about a year to get to it. Before that I favored the F6F but still would fly something else every other sortie. Hellcat and Corsair have always been two of my favorites along with the Jug, Jug lost out for me because of climb rate. I like something that can 1. Turn Good (I like to TNB), 2. Has good speed and 3. haul a good amount of ord.
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a-20.......2000lbs of love for the gv's and 3000 .50s for the ho'ers......which i am one of :aok :salute
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Bf 109K-4 87 11
Bf 109G-14 62 7
Bf 109G-6 45 1
Sherman VC 30 9
My rides this tour and kills alone - huge change considering I tend to switch rides per week or tour basis
Just 3 rides? Wow that's some discipline. I couldn't stick to 3 rides to save my life lol.
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F4C "The Caddy" is all i need. Any other plane after that just keeps me in perks.
You see a Rook F4C between 3a.m. and 8a.m. central time..just go the other way.Just go the other way....
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Just 3 rides? Wow that's some discipline. I couldn't stick to 3 rides to save my life lol.
I did fly other rides first day of the tour, following my usual gander the FW190 series, Ju87 sorties, but honestly your right
strict discipline and why not its actually quite fun :rock
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I'm a funny bird. I refuse to fly German or Japanese planes. The only time I've climbed into one, is to study its weakness from a firsthand perspective. I've never flown one as part of a monthly MA tour. I fly allied planes exclusively.
Somehow I just can't shake pictures in my mind of Japanese and German atrocities during WWII. A relative of mine survived the Bataan Death March and wrote a book about it "Corrigador to Hell". And i've met a few children of holocaust victims. All this left an unshakeable impression on me . And i imagine there are others out there who feel the same, even though this is only a game simulation.
So when you are playing CT and diving on a formation of B-17's with your FW 190... and you suddenly realize the gunner in that B-17 is a little too good to be the AI... You'll know why a human player is flying a fortress over Germany in a campaign game. I'll see you there, Whilhelm.
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I'm a funny bird. I refuse to fly German or Japanese planes. The only time I've climbed into one, is to study its weakness from a firsthand perspective. I've never flown one as part of a monthly MA tour. I fly allied planes exclusively.
Somehow I just can't shake pictures in my mind of Japanese and German atrocities during WWII. A relative of mine survived the Bataan Death March and wrote a book about it "Corrigador to Hell". And i've met a few children of holocaust victims. All this left an unshakeable impression on me . And i imagine there are others out there who feel the same, even though this is only a game simulation.
So when you are playing CT and diving on a formation of B-17's with your FW 190... and you suddenly realize the gunner in that B-17 is a little too good to be the AI... You'll know why a human player is flying a fortress over Germany in a campaign game. I'll see you there, Whilhelm.
I really want to post on this, but I would get PNG'd by your blatant comment right away. So im not gona bother.
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P51s, 47s and 38s are the only planes in the game. All other aicraft are wantabes..................... ..over? :devil
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P51s, 47s and 38s are the only planes in the game. All other aicraft are wantabes..................... ..over? :devil
I will take my 109 over your P51 For 200 Alex, oh wait wrong game...
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:noid
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I'm a funny bird. I refuse to fly German or Japanese planes. The only time I've climbed into one, is to study its weakness from a firsthand perspective. I've never flown one as part of a monthly MA tour. I fly allied planes exclusively.
Somehow I just can't shake pictures in my mind of Japanese and German atrocities during WWII. A relative of mine survived the Bataan Death March and wrote a book about it "Corrigador to Hell". And i've met a few children of holocaust victims. All this left an unshakeable impression on me . And i imagine there are others out there who feel the same, even though this is only a game simulation.
So when you are playing CT and diving on a formation of B-17's with your FW 190... and you suddenly realize the gunner in that B-17 is a little too good to be the AI... You'll know why a human player is flying a fortress over Germany in a campaign game. I'll see you there, Whilhelm.
Ahh the late great stehpon waldron, a wonder of the bbs. I am truly grateful of your posts as they offer me endless entertainment. Whether you are a well planned troll or just a random .... I ask that you continue to offer your endless wisdom and insight to this board.
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I'm a funny bird. I refuse to fly German or Japanese planes. The only time I've climbed into one, is to study its weakness from a firsthand perspective. I've never flown one as part of a monthly MA tour. I fly allied planes exclusively.
Somehow I just can't shake pictures in my mind of Japanese and German atrocities during WWII. A relative of mine survived the Bataan Death March and wrote a book about it "Corrigador to Hell". And i've met a few children of holocaust victims. All this left an unshakeable impression on me . And i imagine there are others out there who feel the same, even though this is only a game simulation.
So when you are playing CT and diving on a formation of B-17's with your FW 190... and you suddenly realize the gunner in that B-17 is a little too good to be the AI... You'll know why a human player is flying a fortress over Germany in a campaign game. I'll see you there, Whilhelm.
It's about airplanes, stupid. :huh
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My squadron informed me last week, from now on German Planes will be flown on squad nights. The idea being, most players want to fly the German planes in order to get ready for the debut of CT in September. I have not yet withdrawn from my squadron.. but I GUARANTEE you, I will RESIGN from my squadron before being coerced by sanctions into flying a German plane. That ain't happening.
The irony is when i joined this bomber squadron, they flew B-17's exclusively.
Now they wanna turn it into a German Fighter Squadron. All i can say is, ZIEG HEIL BABY! I'll see ya in my gunsights.
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Somehow I just can't shake pictures in my mind of Japanese and German atrocities during WWII. A relative of mine survived the Bataan Death March and wrote a book about it "Corrigador to Hell". And i've met a few children of holocaust victims. All this left an unshakeable impression on me . And i imagine there are others out there who feel the same, even though this is only a game simulation.
Yet you fly B17's?
German pilots weren't involved with the atrocities, in fact they were VERY kind to captured enemy pilots. Even Russian pilots and ground crews, which is interesting considering how much the Germans hated the Russians.
Allied bomber pilots, however...
Just to reiterate my point. From Heinz Knoke's, 'I Flew for the Fuehrer'. These events occurred on March 5th, 1942, as Knoke was intercepting a recce spitfire that had been plaguing them the past few days/weeks, causing Knoke much frustration as he tried to shoot down the Spitfire on past occasions. He had shot the Spitfires oil cooler causing oil to splash back on his forward windscreen.
'... I veer a little to the right, in order to to observe the Tommy farther through the side window. He is gradually losing speed, but is still flying. The smoke-trail is becoming thinner.
Then another Messerschmitt comes into view climbing up on my left. It is Lieutnant Dieter Gerhard, my old comrade, and I radio to him to say I am no longer able to fire.
"Then let me finish him, Heinz!"
He opens fire. The right wing of the Spitfire shears away. Like a dead autumn leaf, the plane flutters earthwards.
And the pilot? Is he still alive? My throat tightens. I had come to like that boy. If he is not dead, why does he not bale out?
The spitfire goes down, a flaming torch now, hurtling towards the snowfield. It will crash and be utterly destroyed. And with it the pilot.
I find myself shouting as if he could hear me: "Bale out lad, bale out!" After all, he is human, too; a soldier too, and a pilot with the same love of the sky and clouds that I feel. Does he also have a wife, a girl like Lilo, perhaps?
"Bale out, lad, bale out!"
Then a body becomes detached from the flames and falls clear. A white parachute spreads open and drifts slowly down into the mountains.
A feeling of pure joy is in my heart now. This is my first combat victory in the air. I have got my man, and he is alive. Dieter and I share the bottle of brandy. We drink a toast to our own fighter pilots, and another one to our Tommy. Dieter brings him in, after landing in the mountains in a Fieseler Storch fitted with skis. He is a tall, slim Pilot Officer in the Royal Air Force. A stiff drink of brandy does him a lot of good. He joins in the laughter when I explain how the entire bottle was actually dedicated to him.'
Knoke was crippled by a roadside bomb planted by partisans in Poland in late 1944. He was forced to live the rest of the war out as a civilian.
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Don't do it, Bubi. Never argue with an idiot, unless you're drunk.
On topic: I like to fly cartoon airplanes. Sometimes 109s, sometimes bombers, sometimes fighters. I fly them all the same way though- poorly.
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Don't do it, Bubi. Never argue with an idiot, unless you're drunk.
On topic: I like to fly cartoon airplanes. Sometimes 109s, sometimes bombers, sometimes fighters. I fly them all the same way though- poorly.
I may not be drunk, but I'm extremely tired & bored. Somehow typing makes me less tired and bored... :) Plus, even if I can't educate Waldron, perhaps others will find interest in these stories.
From 'The Blond Knight of Germany', a biography of Erich Hartmann. Keep in mind the Germans hated the Russians.
'The Germans were astonished in Russia when Red fighters swarmed over their airfields on sub-zero mornings when they had been unable even to start their own aircraft. When Erich's squadron captured a Russian airman, he showed them with typical Soviet directness how the Russian Air Force maintained its operational effectiveness at 40 below zero.
The cooperative prisoner was proud of knowing something perhaps the Germans didn't know. He called for half a gallon of gasoline in a can. He went over to one of the grounded Messerschmitts, and to the horror of the watching JG52 personnel, poured the gasoline into the aircraft's oil slump. The Germans backed away twenty yards or more. The moment that Dummkopf turned on the ignition and attempted to start, there would be an explosion.
Apprehensive mechanics began cranking the motor by hand, while a German pilot cringed down in the cockpit. After the gasoline was thoroughly mixed with the congealed oil, he turned on the ignition. The engine started. There was no explosion. The big Daimler Benz burst into life and ran solidly. The Russian airman explained through interpreting Germans that the oil congealed at sub zero temperatures and made it impossible for starters to budge the engine. The gasoline liquefied the oil, and then evaporated as the engine warmed up. The only necessary precaution was to change the oil more often when using gasoline for sub zero starting.'
The prisoner also helped with other sub zero engine problems, guns jamming, etc. As if his dangerous techniques didn't show the German's trust of the Russian, he was allowed to wander the airfield without a guard. The Luftwaffe was a pretty humane and chivalrous group. More so than the USAAF or especially the RAF for sure.
I could also type up Knoke's other experiences with down Allied pilots (both good and bad... ex. a Thunderbolt pilot trying to strafe him when he baled out) but I don't feel like it.
On topic I normally fly the 109. I fly the 190 a bit too.
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I fly alittle bit of everything depending on my mood. Jabo runs are normally F6Fs or P-51Ds. Base defense Niki or LaLa. Pure dogfighting I love my Spit 8 and Ki-84. For my favorite pasttime of pi$$ing in people's cornflakes and sinking cvs is the trusty B-26. I am very consistant at fly everthing quite poorly as well. :furious
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I do see where Stephen Waldron is coming from. Now those same German planes would have been bombing our cities 68 years ago. I've sat and heard my grandmama's stories of looking out the kitchen window whilst she doing the washing up, to see a sky filled of black hun planes.
It must have been a frightful sight knowing those planes have BOMBS wanting to blow you up and kill you.
Now I like flying the 109's to see what they got but give me a choice between a spit8 and a G14 and ill take him apart in my Spit anyday and say to myself
"burn all the way down hun scum!"
:D
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See Rules #2, #5
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And there goes another thread.... Why you guys can't just ignore the trolls I'll never know.
<S>...-Gixer
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It's like an epidemic.
190s for me, from day one. The design just fits me like a glove. It's like an arrow. Now if only there was a D9 with just a 108 or 103 in the nose..
B25H is also a lot of fun.. And I'll probably flog the 410 too, when it's added.
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It's like an epidemic.
190s for me, from day one. The design just fits me like a glove. It's like an arrow. Now if only there was a D9 with just a 108 or 103 in the nose..
B25H is also a lot of fun.. And I'll probably flog the 410 too, when it's added.
Imagine if they added the Do335 - wouldn't fly anything else, however think the bird would of been heavily perked.
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Well, it looks cool, in a pretty different way, but I have no idea what it'd fly like. The 190s look really good (to me), but it's even more the way they fly, that I really like.
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I've flown P38s since my early days in Airwarrior and I will continue to do so.
The P38 is by far not an uber ride when compared to a Spit16, but the challenge is where the enjoyment is.
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Well, it looks cool, in a pretty different way, but I have no idea what it'd fly like. The 190s look really good (to me), but it's even more the way they fly, that I really like.
Think Do335 had qualities of a Ta152 and a 109, could out turn 109 easily, and climb with k4, and had guns of a 152.
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I've flown P38s since my early days in Airwarrior and I will continue to do so.
The P38 is by far not an uber ride when compared to a Spit16, but the challenge is where the enjoyment is.
The 38 is actually a more capable ride then I thought it was. Not that Im any great dogfighter in it but one thing Ive noticed is that even when heavy I can slither around in it and make repeated runs against rocket and/or bomb targets. It turns well at 200 mph to 300 mph, gains alt to reconvert well, and now that Im getting the hang of its compression Im able to keep the bird just under it where it makes a very stable rocket platform. Its becoming my strike Jabo of choice all things considered. The only real issue is the Pilot wounds.
But all things considered its a very versatile aircraft. Plus I just love the "feel" of flying it. Its like flying a Cadillac compared to the other Jabos.
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Think Do335 had qualities of a Ta152 and a 109, could out turn 109 easily, and climb with k4, and had guns of a 152.
Can you give any source for that claim?
The 335 had a much smaller thrust/weight ratio than the 109K, so it was unlikely to climb with a 109. I have found various numbers during the years (though ifferences are small), but none of my books credits the 335 with a climb rate of more than 12 m/s (app. 2300 ft/min).
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I don't believe there are accurate figures on the Do 335, checking 3 sources i was given 3 different climb rates.
Low as 1700ft a minute to 3940ft a minute, possible however 1700 is without MW50 engaged, none of the tests figures
give an actual model except one being an high alt interceptor proposed climb rate of 5,320 feet per minute on wep climb,
doubtful this was ever accomplished in actual numbers.
More time I discredit anything in test figures as they are un-armed and un-modified numbers, completely different from actual
combat aircraft.
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Care to name that sources, espeacially the 3940ft/min one?
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The 38 is actually a more capable ride then I thought it was. Not that Im any great dogfighter in it but one thing Ive noticed is that even when heavy I can slither around in it and make repeated runs against rocket and/or bomb targets. It turns well at 200 mph to 300 mph, gains alt to reconvert well, and now that Im getting the hang of its compression Im able to keep the bird just under it where it makes a very stable rocket platform. Its becoming my strike Jabo of choice all things considered. The only real issue is the Pilot wounds.
But all things considered its a very versatile aircraft. Plus I just love the "feel" of flying it. Its like flying a Cadillac compared to the other Jabos.
Ask the S.A.P.P guys. The P-38 is deadly in the right hands. Especially if you can get your opponent to mis-judge your E-state in the vertical. They are very sneaky in that aspect.
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I'm a funny bird. I refuse to fly German or Japanese planes. The only time I've climbed into one, is to study its weakness from a firsthand perspective. I've never flown one as part of a monthly MA tour. I fly allied planes exclusively.
Somehow I just can't shake pictures in my mind of Japanese and German atrocities during WWII. A relative of mine survived the Bataan Death March and wrote a book about it "Corrigador to Hell". And i've met a few children of holocaust victims. All this left an unshakeable impression on me . And i imagine there are others out there who feel the same, even though this is only a game simulation.
So when you are playing CT and diving on a formation of B-17's with your FW 190... and you suddenly realize the gunner in that B-17 is a little too good to be the AI... You'll know why a human player is flying a fortress over Germany in a campaign game. I'll see you there, Whilhelm.
Every day I wake up and try to convince myself that there are no true idiots in this world. Every day there has to be one person that proves me wrong. Congratulations sir. :aok
A short account..........
My grandfather (still alive at 88 y/o) served aboard the USS Monongahela (AO-42) in the south pacific. After one particularly harrowing attack upon their vessel by the IJN and managing to shoot down a few a/c, they began a search for pilots. They found a few who had perished, but one that was still alive. He had been in the water at least a whole day and was severely injured. He was, however, nowhere near death. Some sailors pulled him from the water onto the deck (oil tanker, so deck was low enough to do so). The fellow was bleeding, burned and pruned from being in the water for so long but completely save-able. My grandfather figured that the were going to take him to sick bay, but to his horror, they stripped him naked of his uniform, divvied his insignia's, etc amongst themselves, kicked him in the head and mouth until his gold teeth came out, divvied THOSE up amongst themselves and rolled the unconscious pilot back into the drink (sans life preserver that he was previously wearing).
I'll admit that my moral compass is not as finely tuned as some, but this easily falls into my definition of atrocious.
As for your gunning skills in a fortress? Stand closer, Chuck, before your feet get wet. It's not as long as you think.
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I'm a funny bird. I refuse to fly German or Japanese planes. The only time I've climbed into one, is to study its weakness from a firsthand perspective. I've never flown one as part of a monthly MA tour. I fly allied planes exclusively.
Somehow I just can't shake pictures in my mind of Japanese and German atrocities during WWII. A relative of mine survived the Bataan Death March and wrote a book about it "Corrigador to Hell". And i've met a few children of holocaust victims. All this left an unshakeable impression on me . And i imagine there are others out there who feel the same, even though this is only a game simulation.
So when you are playing CT and diving on a formation of B-17's with your FW 190... and you suddenly realize the gunner in that B-17 is a little too good to be the AI... You'll know why a human player is flying a fortress over Germany in a campaign game. I'll see you there, Whilhelm.
This one is not long for these bbs.
Ever met a child of Dresdan, Berlin, Caan, Tokeyo ???
War is one thing...BAD...for all involved.
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This one is not long for these bbs.
Ever met a child of Dresdan, Berlin, Caan, Tokeyo ???
War is one thing...BAD...for all involved.
Yeah but trying to argue with this guy is endless, he spews out more garbage with each new post. Good form of entertainment however.
Fact matter he only spews out what bad germans/japanese did, I more so hate the russians for what they did to hungarian.
My parents being hungarian have suffered, grandparents told me plenty of stories of russians taking their home and motorcycle shops away, due to it being "claimed" by the soviets.
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My favorite ride.
109E - Hurri mkI - 109f - ki 84 - p47 d40 - p38g - p51b - 109g14 - 109k4 - f6f - zeke - c205 -p40e - yak 9 :lol
They are all fun, and for me, break up the monotony of flying the same bird every sortie.
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Yeah but trying to argue with this guy is endless, he spews out more garbage with each new post. Good form of entertainment however.
Fact matter he only spews out what bad germans/japanese did, I more so hate the russians for what they did to hungarian.
My parents being hungarian have suffered, grandparents told me plenty of stories of russians taking their home and motorcycle shops away, due to it being "claimed" by the soviets.
They did worse to the Germans... much worse...
Hartmann was captured by the Soviets along with a large number of civilians. I'm not going to post his recollection of that.
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It's like an epidemic.
190s for me, from day one. The design just fits me like a glove. It's like an arrow. Now if only there was a D9 with just a 108 or 103 in the nose..
I'm with you m00t, been addicted to Dora's from the start. You familiar with the D13? A third Mg151/20 firing thru the spinner. We already have the skin courtesy of Edbert. Should we start lobbying HTC? (sorry for the Big-Ass image, but I think it's worth it)
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3343/39fw190d13avm7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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Yep.. I don't like that paint scheme much, though. I went to see it when it was still at the museum in Mesa, AZ, before they moved it to their shop and later shipped it to Seattle. I even walked around the Ta152 engine block that was displayed next to it.. not knowing what it was.. I took pictures of the Me163 engine, finding it very cool, as it was just around that time that the Komet was added to AH.
Having a D-11, -12 or -13 in the game would be really great.. :) They'll probably have to flesh out a good chunk of the rest of the planeset before that, though.
btw- If you know where I could find close-up pics of a late 190 or 152's rivets, let me know, it'd help with the 152 skins in progress.
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German pilots weren't involved with the atrocities,
Ahhh, maybe they missed the memo with the orders that everyone else was forced to follow :rolleyes:
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Ahhh, maybe they missed the memo with the orders that everyone else was forced to follow :rolleyes:
I am unaware of any Luftwaffe personnel taking part in the extermination of the Jews... in fact, I can think of at least instance where Luftwaffe personnel protested the Nazi government's position on the Jewish race... perhaps you could fill me in?
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I am unaware of any Luftwaffe personnel taking part in the extermination of the Jews... in fact, I can think of at least instance where Luftwaffe personnel protested the Nazi government's position on the Jewish race... perhaps you could fill me in?
I am guessing the bombing of civilians was part of their protest? (And please don't tell me the allies did it too. I know they did.)
I think I get it though. The other Germans, the ones that were 'forced' to follow the orders were bad. The pilots were the good people because they were in airplanes :rofl Are you forget it that they started a war that cost a lot of people their lives? I am sure they were against that war though :rofl
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Are you forget it that they started a war that cost a lot of people their lives? I am sure they were against that war though :rofl
The last time I checked, Britain declared war on Germany :rolleyes:
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I am unaware of any Luftwaffe personnel taking part in the extermination of the Jews... in fact, I can think of at least instance where Luftwaffe personnel protested the Nazi government's position on the Jewish race... perhaps you could fill me in?
THREAD HIJACK!
The Luftwaffe, created by the "Nazis" after they took power and lead by Göring from day 1, was always considered the most pure national-socialistic branch of the German armed forces. While this also a very broad generalization, it shows that the Luftwaffe itself was certainly not more holy than their ground based comrades, and definitely not "apolitical". It may have less participation on those well know and often cited "typical" actrocities at or behind the frontlines, but this is more a result of the circumstances of deployment & duties.
But some of the most gruesome human experiments were conducted by Luftwaffe doctor's and scientists. From 1941 on they conducted very painfull and usually deadly experiments on Hypothermia, making seawater consumable (sorry bad english) and altitude sickness, using prisoners of war and other "untermenschen" in various concentration camps, most notably Dachau. Some of that crimes were later put on trial in Nürnberg (the so called "Doctor's Trial")
But this is a topic more suitable to Oclub or even PM's
HIJACK END
(I think this thread is now racing towards a lock...)
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The Luftwaffe, created by the "Nazis" after they took power and lead by Göring from day 1, was always considered the most pure national-socialistic branch of the German armed forces. While this also a very broad generalization, it shows that the Luftwaffe itself was certainly not more holy than their ground based comrades, and definitely not "apolitical". It may have less participation on those well know and often cited "typical" actrocities at or behind the frontlines, but this is more a result of the circumstances of deployment & duties.
Thanks Lusche. I was not aware of that.
I'm done now... these discussions never go anywhere any way.
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The Luftwaffe, created by the "Nazis" after they took power and lead by Göring from day 1, was always considered the most pure national-socialistic branch of the German armed forces. While this also a very broad generalization, it shows that the Luftwaffe itself was certainly not more holy than their ground based comrades, and definitely not "apolitical". It may have less participation on those well know and often cited "typical" actrocities at or behind the frontlines, but this is more a result of the circumstances of deployment & duties.
Thanks Lusche, I'd never considered that either. This is rather enlightening.
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Who ruined a good thread with this crap?
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(http://www.philhower.com/images/1337/i-like-where-this-thread-is-going.jpg)
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Who ruined a good thread with this crap?
Maybe time to bring it back on track:
I do have some kind of envy for that cartoon pilots closely associated with a certain plane. They practice fighting in it tour after tour for years and, as a result, often become "one" with their plane, being able to push their ride to it's limits. Sometimes I'd like to do the same - but I can't.
So many fun planes in to chose from - I often feel like a fat man in front of a buffet when entering the hangar. While I was almost exclusively flying the La-7 for my first three tours, the next "main rides" were in my focus for ever decreasing periods of time. Nowadays I have even trouble to stay in one "main ride" during a whole tour. Maybe it's my attention disorder, maybe I'm just bored too easily after all those years. But the choice of planes is it what keeps me in game. I usually fly between 30-60 rides per tour.
That being said, I have rather big group of planes I prefer: 109F, G's, K, 190D, Ta152, Spit's, Ki-84, Hurri I (secret love), il2, P51B &D, Tempest, 163 & 262 - The 262 is actually my current "ride of the year", at least by pure number of kills. Yeah, totally dweebish, I agree.
I really would like to fly the F4U's more, but it's currently not possible (yes I know, I mentioned it already :P )
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Yep.. I don't like that paint scheme much, though.
I guess I like it because it's so different. Either a bold camouflage statement, or the proper paint was nowhere to be had so late in the war.
btw- If you know where I could find close-up pics of a late 190 or 152's rivets, let me know, it'd help with the 152 skins in progress.
I'll keep my eyes open :)
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The last time I checked, Britain declared war on Germany :rolleyes:
You would have done really well back then. Who said anything about Britain? Last I checked a couple of more countries were involved (under protest of the LW saints that is) Did you miss the first part of my post? :rofl
Sorry about the hijack but I have very low tolerance for these guys. He is probably still wearing his uniform while typing :rofl
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Thanks Lusche , for putting this back to the original post question , and Adonai that picture best describes that whole thing ! < S > to the both of you . LOL
I was contemplating more of the P-40 E for this tour or even getting in some german stuff , I like the 109's and see what will happen in it . I do really like the 110 however but it has a place and use in the MA . How will I ever know if its my style or not until I fly it , Lusche your right we are blessed with a hanger plum full of aircraft to use and enjoy so why not take a few up and check them out . Its all about enjoyment of the game and striving to be successful in whatever aircraft a person chooses .
Thanks Guys for your posts
Nutte :rock :rock :rock
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Its amazing to me really when I hear that this plane is the best or that guy flys the best . it seems to me I have seen many great combos of both these kinds intertwinded together as one . There are pilots in P-40's that are outright fabulous and very dangerous in the MA , and guys who can just make P-51's work like a dream and so on and so forth . My thought is does a certian plane just ( fit ) a style of how a pilot flys and is a huge contributor to that persons successes . And while I do believe in the art of ACM in all of its forms , the constraints of the plane will not allow certain manuvers to be performed . So how long did it take some of you to find the ride that makes you perform well . And I'm keeping in mind that our favorite planes are not always the ones we fly best . Post your thoughts of this I'm interested in hearing what all of you think on this .
Thanks Nutte :devil
Thats what I been doin' wrong!