Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Rondar on June 13, 2008, 12:55:19 AM
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What is the general recommendation here for either letting the computer run or shut it off at night? Are the fans going to wear out? And I know a light bulb usually burns out when its flipped on, meaning if it is gonna quit it is usually when its powered up. The computer is currently hooked up to a cyberpower battery backup along with all the other puter stuff I have.
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Turn it off - it's a waste of electricity if you're not using it...
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Shut it off.
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I used to argue this with my best friend all the time. I always shut mine off. He always left his on.
We both bought machines around the same time. Nine years later mine's still running strong. His died and was replaced 2-3 years ago.
Turn it off.
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chips and transistors have lifespans. Whatever that life span is, if it's in use the lifespan is being used up. If it's off, it isn't in use.
The PSU, the fan, the CPU, the GPU, the RAM, the mobo. These things all have limited lifespans. While these may have YEARS before they die, why speed it up?
Just more cost effective to shut it down.
Think of it this way: Do you leave your car idling all night, or do you turn it off, then on again in the morning? :D
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I think it's a bit of a wash.
The biggest argument for leaving the machine on all the time is that the components are under more strain during startup than after things get up and running. This is particularly true for mechanically moving parts like the disk drives. I think the difference is pretty insignificant though and when I hear people making that argument I sort of roll my eyes the same way I do when they tell me wind mills and solar panels are the answer to our energy crises. My company (a fairly large software developer) uses lots and lots of computers and we leave our stuff running 24/7 for reasons including wear and tear. I tend to do the same on my game machine. The primary reason is I schedule disk scans, updates (Windows, anti-virus, firewall, etc) and if I keep the machine shutdown all the time, all that stuff wants to run right when I'm wanting to get humiliated in Aces High. By keeping the machine up and running all the time, I know all the maintenance is up to date. I like to "feel good" that the machine is facing less strain because it's not being powered up and down all the time but it's much like putting a low pressure faucet head on my sink to reduce water usage; all I do is wash my hands longer. It doesn't do jack for water conservation but I sure do feel good about myself for caring!
[Confession] I will admit though, I've been turning my machine off lately because of the incredible heat wave (over 100 degress) we've been having around here lately. :o
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The saves-power argument is a good one in theory, and has been around in many shapes and forms, including light bulbs.
Then somebody stopped and said "is this even true? Let's test it!" (Mythbusters) and found it was really didn't work the way folks thought it might.
You have a bit of a savings, but the power used to start it up is only equivelant to a couple of seconds' worth of operation.
I'm sure a similar situation is true with computers and power savings.
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I've had more PSU's in my experience die during boot-up than during regular use. HD's? Split even. Video cards...only 1 during boot-up.
I used to leave mine on overnight for downloads/uploads/scans whatever.
I now leave it off to save money on electricity.
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"the power used to start it up is only equivalent to a couple of seconds' worth of operation"
The argument is not that the power saved by continuous operation is greater than the power used by the startup, but that the initial surge on power up is what usually takes out a weakened electrical component. Personally, I'm for shutting unused systems down both to save both electricity and to relieve heat-related stress and mechanical wear, which in my humble opinion out weighs the advantages of avoiding the power on surge by leaving a system unnecessarily operating continuously.
Now having said that, when I was doing network services (both for other companies and as a systems consultant) working with Novell servers where it was not uncommon to be called in to do maintenance on a system that had been running for more than a year straight, it was standard practice to ALWAYS shut down, power down and then restart the server BEFORE touching it in any other way. You'd be surprised how many times a machine that's been running without a hitch for a year and a half straight fails to restart properly after a power off, even if it's been working just fine up to that point. And of course, it's much easier to convince the customer you didn't break it when he's in the room and has seen that all you've done is shut down, power down, and power back up.
<S>
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I was on the Internet team for a major entertainment company for a few years. We were running sequel server machines and we found we had to take them off-line and reboot them every 7-10 days or they would start to destabilize.
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I shut it off for 2 reasons: 1. it saves electricity and avoids damage due to a late night storm. 2. Hackers can't get to it when it's off.
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I was on the Internet team for a major entertainment company for a few years. We were running sequel server machines and we found we had to take them off-line and reboot them every 7-10 days or they would start to destabilize.
That was probably due the fact you were running SQL Server / Windows Server XXXX rather than any power related problem.
We recently found a 12 year old Sun box chugging away quite happily at the back our server room. As best we could tell, no-one had actually used it in about 6 years but it hadn't skipped a beat in all that time.
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That was probably due the fact you were running SQL Server / Windows Server XXXX rather than any power related problem.
We recently found a 12 year old Sun box chugging away quite happily at the back our server room. As best we could tell, no-one had actually used it in about 6 years but it hadn't skipped a beat in all that time.
Windows will run happily for 10 years if nobody uses it. It's the users installing programs and programs creating system conflicts that corrupt the OS. Reversely it's the users running programs with memory leaks that get the system on it's knees.
Having said that, unless your machine is a mission critical server - turn it off whenever you're not using it. Something to think about: Most consumer grade harddrives are not qualified for 24 hour operation. They're meant to be turned off after a few hours by design. Western Digital Raid Edition drives, raptors etc. are some few exceptions to the rule.
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Windows will run happily for 10 years if nobody uses it.
:lol
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Yup, shut her down.
Less power and with the fans always going, less of a pet hair vacuum :)
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I shut it off for 2 reasons: 1. it saves electricity and avoids damage due to a late night storm. 2. Hackers can't get to it when it's off.
I'm lost on #2. :confused:
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I'm lost on #2. :confused:
My way of thinking is that they have less opportunity to hack if it is off. Now I may be wrong about that. What I do know is that no computer is %100 secure. There's almost always a way to get to it if given enough time.
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I'm for shutting unused systems down both to save both electricity and to relieve heat-related stress
heat related stress is why I'd leave it on 24/7. Think about it :)
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Consumer hardware is not rated for 24/7 operation so it should not be used like that.
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We recently found a 12 year old Sun box chugging away quite happily at the back our server room. As best we could tell, no-one had actually used it in about 6 years but it hadn't skipped a beat in all that time.
Yes, and my old solar-powered calculator still works after 15 years of being tossed into tool drawers, change drawers, boxes, etc.
Doesn't really equate, an old 15MHz CPU with no major parts vs a modern-era (past 5 years) computer system.
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I have several machines that have been on 24/7 for the past 6 years in my home-lab. I have others that I turn on and off whenever I need to use them. My main "daily use" computer was on for 3 years straight until recently.
All I can say is that different parts will fail in different ways based on whether it is always on or not. I think that overall, the maintenance issues are a wash.
Fans are much more likely to fail when the computer is constantly on, and if you don't stay on top of it, then the component they are trying to cool is at risk (think CPUs, GPUs, and some power supplies.) Dust ingestion is an issue with these computers too. Hard drives bearings are more likely to go.
When the computer is regularly turned on and off, then power supplies are more likely to start blowing caps (not terribly likely - just more likely), RAM and PCI cards are more likely to get lose with regular thermal expansion, and hard drive motors are more at-risk. A weak BIOS battery is more likely to reset the CMOS. The CPU can suffer from thermal stresses.
None of these are major, and the failures of one tend to balance out the failures of the other.
Electrical usage is now starting to be an issue, especially since I'm using notebooks more and more for everything but gaming and hardcore numbercrunching. My P3-based servers take about 70 watts when running. My main PC needs 150 watts at idle, and close to 250 when gaming. In SoCal where electricity is expensive, running an unnecessary 150 watts all day can really add up. According my my electric bill and my calculator, when idling, my 150 watt "main PC" costs 92 cents a day to run, or $27 a month, or $324 a year. If I go three days without using it because I'm using my notebooks, it's very wasteful. If I have 3 computers in the house that are always running, you can see how it really adds up.
So, keeping computer component longevity and electrical usage in the balance, I tell my clients to turn on their PCs during the day when they are going to use it, and if if they're likely to return to the computer to use it before the day is over, leave it on, and then shut it down in the evening/night. I'll generally set all the overnight maintenance stuff for just one night (like Monday), and advise people to leave the computer running overnight just one night a week.
My thoughts,
Llama
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Here's a different thought: Look up a program called BOINC and the World Community Grid. It's a system that uses everyone's idle computers that are running the program to complete calculations related to helping out research in some way. By doing so, they've amassed the equivalent of easily over a million hours (IIRC) of computing time on a supercomputer.
I leave my computer on at all times (especially since the power supply is getting too weak to get the system to start up cold) and whenever I leave it, I start up BOINC and let it work on various projects. You can also set it to run at all times and only work when the CPU is idle, but I've never trusted that and this is my gamer.
I've been running it for over a year now and haven't gotten any viruses or spyware of any kind (Firefox/AdBlock Plus/NoScript help with that), so I can attest to the security of it as well.