Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Angus on June 14, 2008, 03:26:47 AM
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17- Threads started or posts made, devoid of commentary will not be allowed (i.e. links, cut-n-pastes, clicky, read this...)
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hmmmm, water your corn field or drive your car?
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I don't have a corn field.
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What oil crisis?
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Fresh water is already in short supply, good idea for now, what happens when we are fighting over fresh water?
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From Fuel Cell Today
It is claimed the Water Energy System (WES) developed by Genepax can generate power by supplying water and air to the fuel and air electrodes. The basic power generation mechanism of the system is similar to that of a standard fuel cell. The main feature of the new system is that it uses a membrane electrode assembly (MEA), which contains a material that breaks down the water to hydrogen and oxygen.
Though the company did not reveal any more detail the company president said that they had "succeeded in adopting a well-known process to produce hydrogen from water to the MEA", similar to the mechanism that produces hydrogen by a reaction of metal hydride and water. However the company claims that compared with the existing method, the new process produces hydrogen from water for a longer time.
"similar to the mechanism that produces hydrogen by a reaction of metal hydride and water"
I've read about systems that erode metal hydride in water, the reaction producing hydrogen. What is not in the energy balance is the energy used to produce the MH.
There is much about this story that remains unsaid. Magic does not exist.
Water is the result of a reaction of hydrogen and oxygen that releases chemical energy. It is the result of a reaction, not the fuel for one. It takes more energy to break the bonds of the water molecule than you get from the combination to make the molecule in the first place.
Fueling the car with water is something called perpetual motion. It does not exist, no one has ever repealed the second law.
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WATER IS NOT A FUEL
One can split water into hydrogen by electrolysis but it takes a lot of energy - more than you can recover by recombining the hydrogen and oxygen to water.
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/forum/2c.gif)
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Interesting, they say in the video that it can run on any kind of water including sea water.
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I saw a magician once who said he was levitating.
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WATER IS NOT A FUEL
One can split water into hydrogen by electrolysis but it takes a lot of energy - more than you can recover by recombining the hydrogen and oxygen to water.
While true, energy production is not necessarily a zero sum game. In theory if you could get the energy to create hydrogen through "renewable" power supplies (wind, solar, blah blah) and then use that hydrogen to power your car, the "wasted" energy is not an issue. It solves the problem of trying to use solar energy to power a car directly, which they have never been able to do cheaply / safely / practically.
We'll see if this goes anywhere. I have my doubts.
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What oil crisis?
you knowwwww....that one where we're almost out of oil. the same one as from 1979, remember? :O
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Water could be a fuel if an enzyme was developed to break the oxygen and hydrogen apart in an energy efficient manner.
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Water could be a fuel if an enzyme was developed to break the oxygen and hydrogen apart in an energy efficient manner.
The energy balance would still be: more energy into breaking the molecular bonds than released when forming the bonds.
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We have more energy beaming to us from the sun than we could ever possibly use. We need to learn how to collect it more efficiently.
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The energy balance would still be: more energy into breaking the molecular bonds than released when forming the bonds.
<edit>
These little buggers might give us hydrogen from water. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/26/bacteria_hydrogen_production/
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The energy balance would still be: more energy into breaking the molecular bonds than released when forming the bonds.
I don't think you understand what an enzyme does. It lowers the energy requirements to rearrange atoms and molecules.
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Oh boy, this is gonna get real good!
***pulls up chair, cooler full of beer, and chips....pfffffffffffffffftss sssssssssssss, glug, glug, glug...***
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Oh boy, this is gonna get real good!
***pulls up chair, cooler full of beer, and chips....pfffffffffffffffftss sssssssssssss, glug, glug, glug...***
He's a chemical engineer, isn't he?
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I don't think you understand what an enzyme does. It lowers the energy requirements to rearrange atoms and molecules.
(http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/activationener.gif)
An enzyme lowers the lip on the above curve, the energy barrier. It lowers the height of the guard rail on the curve of the mountian road. It does not change the delta G, the height of the cliff you just jumped off.
The delta G is the energy released when H and O react. In order to go back to the top of the hill on the graph. One must climb the hill by putting in more energy into climbing that one gets sliding down.
Enzymes do not repeal the 2nd law.
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17- Threads started or posts made, devoid of commentary will not be allowed (i.e. links, cut-n-pastes, clicky, read this...)
Now I write and comment too little???? Ok, sorry, but many have the point, and the news were from Reuters anyway.
Holden has the same thought as I did there anyway, - How can you "split" water only to combine it again and gain energy while at it?!?!?!?!?!!
What is the trick? And is there one?????
BTW, Water isn't always .... just water.
And for Holden,,,look here :
http://www.tct.is/
That one is more like I had pictured some footsteps into solving the oil crisis. I know of the project for some years, and it's blimming brilliant. My computer service guy did the test-setup for them and he was absolutely stunned by the results. But the whole production and marketing deal is some heck to deal with when the engines are by the millions...
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Oh, getting an item into the TCT thing, AFAIK there is practically no CO emission at all. A suicide by car+garage will be impossible for instance! And it will run for several mixtures, - not just petrol.
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you knowwwww....that one where we're almost out of oil. the same one as from 1979, remember? :O
:) Yep, I remember. I was unloading a lot at the ports in Texas at the time. The tugs were being used more for water taxis than for tugs. They were transporting tanker crews to and from shore. The tankers were anchored offshore in large numbers and weren`t allowed to unload...........
.................until fuel prices reached the desired goal.
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Oh, stumbled across this one.
http://www.runsyourcarwithwater.com/
Thoughts?
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From Fuel Cell Today
"similar to the mechanism that produces hydrogen by a reaction of metal hydride and water"
I've read about systems that erode metal hydride in water, the reaction producing hydrogen. What is not in the energy balance is the energy used to produce the MH.
There is much about this story that remains unsaid. Magic does not exist.
Water is the result of a reaction of hydrogen and oxygen that releases chemical energy. It is the result of a reaction, not the fuel for one. It takes more energy to break the bonds of the water molecule than you get from the combination to make the molecule in the first place.
Fueling the car with water is something called perpetual motion. It does not exist, no one has ever repealed the second law.
"Similar"
"Genepax uses a metal or a metal compound that can cause an oxidation reaction with water at room temperature, the company said. Metals that react with water include lithium, sodium, magnesium, potassium and calcium. The main feature of the Water Energy System is that it can be operated for a longer period of time by controlling the reaction of the metal or the metal compound, the company said.
According to Genepax, the metal or the metal compound is supported by a porous body such as zeolite inside the fuel electrode of the membrane electrode assembly (MEA). The products of the hydrogen generation reaction dissolves in water, and the water containing them will be discharged with water inside the system. Upon the completion of the reaction, the generation of hydrogen and power stops"
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080616/153301/
Also I have been goggling the company since the article came out they now have a web page.
Seems they were taken a little off guard by the news coverage.
"June 12, 2008 Genepax was been invited to lecture at seminar "New Energy Source for Environmental Preservation and Dealing with Disaster" held at Osaka Pref. Congress Hall.
June 12, 2008 Genepax was introduced in several TV News
FWorld Business Satelite (TV Tokyo), Mezamashi TV (Fuji TV), etc."
June 15, 2008:
We are preparing an English presentation and demonstration for foreign press which will be held in Tokyo soon.
Scheduled to be shown :
Electricity Generation Module, Prototype Generator System, and All Electric Automobile with on-board WES for continuous battery charging.
To attend, please contact the following :
Jun Onishi [PR Manager]
Email: press@genepax.co.jp
By the color of the plates I would just take a guess and say its a Magnesium/hybred "shell" with a natural zeolite of some type inside or possible synthetic.
Any watch lovers over there? Could go check it out? :D :cool:
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http://www.emc2fusion.org/
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I'm putting my money on cold fusion...
Come on Fleischmann-Pons!
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Update: from there website.. they don't say what the reaction material is yet.
http://www.genepax.co.jp/en/mechanism/mechanism.html (http://www.genepax.co.jp/en/mechanism/mechanism.html)
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We have more energy beaming to us from the sun than we could ever possibly use. We need to learn how to collect it more efficiently.
Last word is the key. The cost benefit ratio drives all of this. Solar is not efficient - probably will never be.
Thankfully, Mr. Oppenheimer provided us with an alternative 60 years ago.
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Last word is the key. The cost benefit ratio drives all of this. Solar is not efficient - probably will never be.
Thankfully, Mr. Oppenheimer provided us with an alternative 60 years ago.
It may not be efficient but if thats all we are left with??
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Last word is the key. The cost benefit ratio drives all of this. Solar is not efficient - probably will never be.
Why not?