Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Spikes on June 14, 2008, 05:59:08 PM

Title: 262s
Post by: Spikes on June 14, 2008, 05:59:08 PM
Why do I always catch fire in a 262? Only a select few times have I had damage to my 262 and have it NOT be a fire. Just now...I killed an A6M, and I flew past a sunk CV, I heard 3 or 4 hit sprites, and I look back...BOOM...on fire. No other damage whatsoever.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Lusche on June 14, 2008, 06:07:21 PM
They fooled you. You have been sold a A6M with German markings, two fake "jet" pods under your wings and a hidden hairdryer in the back to make that fancy "jet" sound...
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Spikes on June 14, 2008, 06:31:22 PM
They fooled you. You have been sold a A6M with German markings, two fake "jet" pods under your wings and a hidden hairdryer in the back to make that fancy "jet" sound...
LOL
Seriously though...I don't get it. I rarely take any damage in one...and if it happens...it's me on fire.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Yossarian on June 14, 2008, 06:49:55 PM
Did you happen to get any film of this?
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: glock89 on June 15, 2008, 12:04:15 AM
LOL
Seriously though...I don't get it. I rarely take any damage in one...and if it happens...it's me on fire.
it just dosent like you LIVE WITH IT
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Messiah on June 15, 2008, 12:25:50 AM
It was hitech in his uber invisible sheepmobile, I heard he likes to .pwnfire Engine 1 on random noobs just to get posts like this one.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Spikes on June 15, 2008, 03:07:32 AM
It was hitech in his uber invisible sheepmobile, I heard he likes to .pwnfire Engine 1 on random noobs just to get posts like this one.
Err...besides the point...I'm not a noob.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: EskimoJoe on June 15, 2008, 03:07:34 AM
It was hitech in his uber invisible sheepmobile, I heard he likes to .pwnfire Engine 1 on random noobs just to get posts like this one.
They fooled you. You have been sold a A6M with German markings, two fake "jet" pods under your wings and a hidden hairdryer in the back to make that fancy "jet" sound...
:rofl :rofl
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: sunfan1121 on June 15, 2008, 05:56:52 AM
Err...besides the point...I'm not a noob.
sense when?  :D
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Spikes on June 15, 2008, 11:04:41 AM
sense when?  :D
Bout a month after I started playin...:D
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Serenity on June 15, 2008, 05:10:32 PM
Ummm... perhaps Jet Fuel is flamable? I'm not real sure, but I think fuel catches fire...  :D
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Becinhu on June 16, 2008, 01:46:58 AM
Maybe you sucked a seagull into your engine intake, or a flying sheep.
 :noid
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Xasthur on June 16, 2008, 05:43:15 AM
I always get pilot wounds and I almost always die from them. I never die from pilot wounds in any other aircraft, I just land with varying amounts of parts left on my plane when I come to a complete stop.

Perhaps I just try to fly further in the Schwalbe when I've taken a hit in guts.

I rarely catch fire in the 262. Oil damage all the time (particularly from bloody Lancs) but rarely fire.

Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Cthulhu on June 16, 2008, 08:26:37 AM
Maybe you sucked a seagull into your engine intake, or a flying sheep.
 :noid
I hear Pigs On The Wing have a new Swine FOD weapon. Maybe you were hit by that. :)
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: valdals on June 16, 2008, 01:37:36 PM
the 262 is a fragile aircraft. i killed a b17 10k over a cv took a hit and started losing fuel. i dove away to escape.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Spikes on June 16, 2008, 01:57:25 PM
I always get pilot wounds and I almost always die from them. I never die from pilot wounds in any other aircraft, I just land with varying amounts of parts left on my plane when I come to a complete stop.

Perhaps I just try to fly further in the Schwalbe when I've taken a hit in guts.

I rarely catch fire in the 262. Oil damage all the time (particularly from bloody Lancs) but rarely fire.


Really? Out of 4 years playing I think I've only gotten a pilot wound once, and I made it back. Only gotten an engine oil hit once or twice.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Xasthur on June 17, 2008, 06:47:16 AM
I get PWs more often than not when I take hits in a 262. It's mostly from bombers too and at very long ranges it seems.

Not a complaint, when I take hits I deserve them, it's just an observation.


Title: Re: 262s
Post by: angelsandair on June 17, 2008, 07:54:47 AM
it just dosent like you LIVE WITH IT

If he keeps dying, he cant live with it  :O
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: ShyGuy12 on June 17, 2008, 08:14:17 AM
Maybe at the last second, someone sneaked behind u and shot u on fire. But, on IL-2 1946, when i fly the 262 throttling up and down frequently, my engines catch on fire. So it can be that as well. Although ive done it in Aces High and it doesnt catch on fire... so i dont really know on that one.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Xasthur on June 17, 2008, 11:50:09 AM
That is not modelled in Aces High, Shyguy.

The 262's engines were known to misbehave when their throttle was worked too hard but engine management is very rudimentary in AH.

This is the case for all engines, not just the jets.

Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Spikes on June 17, 2008, 07:07:19 PM
I get PWs more often than not when I take hits in a 262. It's mostly from bombers too and at very long ranges it seems.

Not a complaint, when I take hits I deserve them, it's just an observation.



CC.
Must be just the odds are against me on this one...
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Xasthur on June 17, 2008, 10:02:07 PM
Why do I always catch fire in a 262? Only a select few times have I had damage to my 262 and have it NOT be a fire. Just now...I killed an A6M, and I flew past a sunk CV, I heard 3 or 4 hit sprites, and I look back...BOOM...on fire. No other damage whatsoever.

Out of curiosity, is it a fuel fire or an engine fire?

The 262 engines were prone to self-destruction and relatively sensative to damage.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Lusche on June 17, 2008, 10:15:29 PM
We don't have engine fires in AH, only fuel ones.
If the engine get's banged up, it either quits immediately or you have an oil leak. And yes, our 262's engines are very easy to damage.

More often than not I return to base with (at least) one engine out. And I certainly do have my share of PW's in 262's ;)
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Xasthur on June 17, 2008, 11:25:05 PM
Well there you go. I always aim for the engines on B24s because they light up nicely. Though the fire is rooted in the engine it's just a fuel fire? I never knew that. I guess you learn something every day.  :aok
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Motherland on June 17, 2008, 11:28:38 PM
Well there you go. I always aim for the engines on B24s because they light up nicely. Though the fire is rooted in the engine it's just a fuel fire? I never knew that. I guess you learn something every day.  :aok
Notice the outer engines never light up? There's a fuel tank in the wing root.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Noir on June 18, 2008, 02:46:21 AM
the 262 is a fragile aircraft. i killed a b17 10k over a cv took a hit and started losing fuel. i dove away to escape.

someone took his first 262 online  :D
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Krusty on June 18, 2008, 09:15:29 AM
But, on IL-2 1946, when i fly the 262 throttling up and down frequently, my engines catch on fire. So it can be that as well.

That is not modelled in Aces High, Shyguy.

The 262's engines were known to misbehave when their throttle was worked too hard but engine management is very rudimentary in AH.

Actually, Pilots were limited in how fast they could throttle up between certain RPMs in real life, otherwise they would damage the engine. That is to say, very slow below (I don't remember, but let's say) 7400rpm, but above that you can do it as fast as you want.

AH is actually quite clever. Jam the throttle full if you like, but watch the RPM dials. They move very slowly, because they are modeled to the limits that pilots had to obey in WW2. Then above whatever the cutoff point is (7400 rpm??) they start reacting almost instantly.

Basically AH models this limitation into the game.

IL2 must not, which is stupid, really. Basically lets you do something you shouldn't be able to do, and will result in engine failure very often based on historical reports.

You couldn't fly a P-51 at 200" boost, could you? Does IL2 let you do THAT too? So why should it let you rev the RPMs too fast with the same result (engine failure)?

Never mind, don't answer that. I don't care. I stopped flying IL2 a long long time ago.

Let me just say: AH has that accounted for. You won't get engine fires from throttling the engines because the position of your throttle and the position of the RPM needle are not instantly linked. It's like flaps. No matter how fast you hit the key, they still deploy at their set speed.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: MiloMorai on June 18, 2008, 09:24:21 AM
Above 6000rpm Krusty.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Krusty on June 18, 2008, 09:56:46 AM
I thought it was much higher than that? Oh well, still, very slow throttle-up.

That's why I often hit the brakes until it's up to RPM then roll.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Serenity on June 18, 2008, 04:07:11 PM
IL2 must not, which is stupid, really. Basically lets you do something you shouldn't be able to do, and will result in engine failure very often based on historical reports.

You couldn't fly a P-51 at 200" boost, could you? Does IL2 let you do THAT too? So why should it let you rev the RPMs too fast with the same result (engine failure)?

Never mind, don't answer that. I don't care. I stopped flying IL2 a long long time ago.

Why do that? Its like virtual birth control. In fact, I wish we had that here. This way when kids try to fly their ub3r planes, at full throttle the whole way, messing around thinking this is like call of duty and you can jump forever, they suffer for it. Its just like your complaint about bombers always being at full throttle. This way, instead of restricting you, it just makes you suffer the consequences. I like that way better.  :D
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Krusty on June 18, 2008, 07:07:43 PM
There's a difference.

Pilots in WW2 were trained not to do these things. They had a lot of pre-flight ground training. They had to memorize a lot of different speeds at which different things could be done.

In a game if you do this kind of limitation without the mandatory education, you get games like TargetWare, where the folks actually MODELING the damn engines can't even tell you what the max settings are for takeoff, cruise, etc.

After a certain point it's not fun.

AH has the right idea of automatically limiting it to what was allowed (same for flaps, gear, etc...) but they don't go far enough in some areas.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Serenity on June 18, 2008, 10:57:24 PM
Well, I disagree, but thats just me. I prefer the "Take the time to learn or suffer the consequences". I mean, even something as simple as modeling engine overheats. You have a guage to warn you if it's getting too hot. And they could add things like the max engine settings and such on the planes/vehicles stats page on the homepage. I know it would never happen, it would just be nice.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: DPQ5 on June 20, 2008, 03:48:44 AM
I always seem to make it home in a 262 on just a thread except when im too scared to even roll down the runway
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Serenity on June 20, 2008, 03:59:17 AM
When I fly a 262, about 5-10 min or less into a fight, I feel like I should leave because something bad is about to happen. I never do. It always does. Or my favorite, I was doing a 262 sweep with 71 RAF, and there were 5 of us on the runway waiting for the last guy so we could go. I wasnt moving, I was on concrete, and my engines were off. I sat there looking at all the other guys, and this is what happened:

I said on VOX: Wow, I really hope I dont disco...
Someone else: Yeah that would su...
*HOST CONECTION LOST*

150 points gone :(
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Yarbles on June 20, 2008, 09:17:05 AM
I got 3 punctures in my bicycle tyre in one week and none for over 2 years. The 3 were all diffferent and not cos I left the same piece of glass in each time. Randomness can look causal when it doesnt look random. But occasionaly it happens like that and its random.

So I am sure someone could put that better and I am guessing you dont fly a huge sample of 262 missions if you keep catching fire.

BTW I live in a city and have a car a motorbike and a travel pass but I cycle to work cos its quicker. The most ecologically sound place for humans to live is in cities like the British do. I can take this smug overbearing attitiude because I cycle to work and therefore have the right (get out of that). :uhoh   
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Krusty on June 20, 2008, 03:02:14 PM
I'm more likely to run out of gas and/or ammo in a 262 than to lose it, unless I get some first-ping BS disabling shot from a bomber's guns. Most times I run out of ammo because the guns totally suck.

I can fly 109s, 152s, 190a8s, all with 30mm Mk108s and not have a FRACTION of the problems I have in the 262 landing shots. There's just something funked out about the guns on the 262. With over 5x the ammo and 4x the guns I can get 1/8th the kills as I can in a 109. Usually I have the perfect, sweetest shots you can imagine when I fly a 262. I et that perfect gunsight image where the con just sits in your gunsight, and when I fire, I find myself 200 rounds lighter and the target is still there.

It's not right.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Lusche on June 20, 2008, 03:22:06 PM
I'm more likely to run out of gas and/or ammo in a 262 than to lose it, unless I get some first-ping BS disabling shot from a bomber's guns. Most times I run out of ammo because the guns totally suck.

I can fly 109s, 152s, 190a8s, all with 30mm Mk108s and not have a FRACTION of the problems I have in the 262 landing shots. There's just something funked out about the guns on the 262. With over 5x the ammo and 4x the guns I can get 1/8th the kills as I can in a 109. Usually I have the perfect, sweetest shots you can imagine when I fly a 262. I et that perfect gunsight image where the con just sits in your gunsight, and when I fire, I find myself 200 rounds lighter and the target is still there.

I have no such problems.

Yes, the number of rounds used per kill is much higher when flying a 262 compared to a 109, but that's mostly because of firing more cannons at once (wasting ammo) and, most important, much higher closure speeds, worse angles and sometimes longer distance.

But I definitely do not get less kills out of a 262's ammo load than out of a 109's. And the measured ballistic drop ( .target command) is just the same in both planes.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Noir on June 20, 2008, 07:29:29 PM

Yes, the number of rounds used per kill is much higher when flying a 262 compared to a 109, but that's mostly because of firing more cannons at once (wasting ammo) and, most important, much higher closure speeds, worse angles and sometimes longer distance.

I use only a pair of 30mms at the same time against fighters most of the time. Lower chance to hit but way longer firing time.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Lusche on June 20, 2008, 07:49:24 PM
I use only a pair of 30mms at the same time against fighters most of the time. Lower chance to hit but way longer firing time.

I don't feel my gunnery is good enough for that ;)

Especially vs fighters, where I use to take a lot low-probability off-angle shots at long range, Im utilizing the "shotgun" pattern convergence: One pair set to 600, the other to 300 and fire them all together.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Serenity on June 20, 2008, 08:23:08 PM
I don't feel my gunnery is good enough for that ;)

Especially vs fighters, where I use to take a lot low-probability off-angle shots at long range, Im utilizing the "shotgun" pattern convergence: One pair set to 600, the other to 300 and fire them all together.

Aren't mk 108's trajectories random enough to qualify as a shotgun? I use the .target command, line up right on the center, at convergence range, hit autopilot so I dont slip off target and empty all of my ammo (In a 109). No 2 shots ever come close to hitting the same place.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Lusche on June 20, 2008, 09:07:23 PM
Aren't mk 108's trajectories random enough to qualify as a shotgun?

Yes, but setting two different convergences amplifies that effect:

(http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/4182/ahss285vl8.jpg)

It is in some respect a waste of ammo, but I have found the incraesed success is being  worth it. But I'm not generally recommending that setting either.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Spikes on June 21, 2008, 11:50:22 AM
I treat my 262's guns like I'm flying a K4 or G14 with the tater.
I fire in very short, short bursts, usually a tap or 2, and wait till I'm 400 out. If I miss and they dive down, good for them, but I know I only wasted 10 rounds on them at most, so I still have 300 or so left. At least I didn't dump my whole ammo load and still miss.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: NEARY on July 19, 2008, 03:59:51 PM
i was gunning for a b-24 and we got attacked by a 262 :eek: i just got one bullet into a 262 and it started smokin, then one bullet later
BOOOOOOMM it was on fire going into a death spin. :P
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Sincraft on July 20, 2008, 10:40:08 AM
Did you happen to get any film of this?

Sorry but when I saw this I had to say something.

Sir - you have cement in your head.  Hijacking threads is not my norm but when I see people with these Obama 08 logo's in their sigs, I can't imagine what world they live in that is so devoid of reality to put something like that under their sig.  It truly scares me how absolutely misinformed people can allows themselves to become.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: evenhaim on July 20, 2008, 01:59:53 PM
I fire 2 guns at a time just to save ammo, this way i can avarage 9-14 kills on a good run. But I totally agree on the pws in 262s they seem way more frequent and way more prevelant. And always from a bombers guns, even when the angle is rediculous
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Spikes on July 20, 2008, 02:28:05 PM
I fire 2 guns at a time just to save ammo, this way i can avarage 9-14 kills on a good run. But I totally agree on the pws in 262s they seem way more frequent and way more prevelant. And always from a bombers guns, even when the angle is rediculous
9-14 kills is a dream for me, I got 14 kills after 4 rearms one time...then to be cherrypicked by some bish dweeb in a spit16...

The shot I really have trouble on is when a con turns and you have a full body shot on him (you can see the top of the wings, like a "top" view of an aircraft) from 400 out and I "spray" about 50 rounds and they ALL miss him, and I only normally spray when I'm testing things like that. I literally start when my gun's ammo will fall in front of his plane, and end where they would hit his tail, with no results.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Banshee7 on July 20, 2008, 02:36:29 PM
i love 262s...but Snailman(Lusche) hates me now  :cry
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: evenhaim on July 20, 2008, 03:07:12 PM
9-14 kills is a dream for me, I got 14 kills after 4 rearms one time...then to be cherrypicked by some bish dweeb in a spit16...

The shot I really have trouble on is when a con turns and you have a full body shot on him (you can see the top of the wings, like a "top" view of an aircraft) from 400 out and I "spray" about 50 rounds and they ALL miss him, and I only normally spray when I'm testing things like that. I literally start when my gun's ammo will fall in front of his plane, and end where they would hit his tail, with no results.
Might be a lag issue but usually depending on your aoa you should need to lead more than 1 1/2 plane lengths
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Lusche on July 20, 2008, 03:20:48 PM
i love 262s...but Snailman(Lusche) hates me now  :cry

As if that would cause you any sleepless nights ;)
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: evenhaim on July 20, 2008, 03:21:52 PM
As if that would cause you any sleepless nights ;)
it would to me   :(
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Spikes on July 20, 2008, 03:23:08 PM
Might be a lag issue but usually depending on your aoa you should need to lead more than 1 1/2 plane lengths
It's not lag...I just can't hit anything with the taters...I need to get within 200 feet from the plane, and that's how I lose many 262s, for instance, I was riding on 3 kills and I snuck up on a set of 88s NOE headed to a CV, and I got within 200 and opened fire on the left drone, when I saw about 10 taters hit I jerked to the left as hard as I could, but I somehow died, maybe the taters had not exploded the plane? It all happened so fast, I saw an explosion of sorts, and 1 second after that I was in the tower.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: Karnak on July 20, 2008, 08:12:37 PM
All twin engined fighters seem to have an issue with pilot wounds being frequent.
Title: Re: 262s
Post by: uberslet on July 20, 2008, 08:51:47 PM
Bout a month after I started playin...:D
you mean before you flew 262's?