Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: wrag on June 15, 2008, 03:20:49 PM
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17- Threads started or posts made, devoid of commentary will not be allowed (i.e. links, cut-n-pastes, clicky, read this...)
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swiftboating!
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mmmm...dunno if that's quite the same thing.
if it's true, then it's definitely something that i'd want to know about.
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oh look mp3 is back.
wish i would have copied the link folks but alas...
it was a story about obamas brother claiming that he was in fact raised a muslim.
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I bet it's already reported/submitted to "Fight the Smears".
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome/
3rd party will analyze/examine that article for credibility gap.
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can you post the original link with some commentary please.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmm.......
Did Skuzzy do that or a mod?
I commented, and even said if it was true...............
HMMM............
OK this guys CLAIMS he is Obama's brother AND claims ...........
How about you guys read it, consider upon it, and then make a comment?
And while we are at it ..............
hmmm...............
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swiftboating!
Swift boating was a lot different. I was with the Swift Boat guys as was a lot of veterans.
THIS is the guys brother admitting what everybody already knows. That Obama was raised a Muslim. Americans are tolerant of religion. Unlike in Muslim countries this tolerance is even written into our constitution.
The Swift boat drama unfolded after Kerry lied about his service in Vietnam, and, lied about his actions afterwards. After 4 mos in country he flim-flammed his way into getting enough purple heart medals to get the hell out of there. Then he came home and joined the Jane Fonda crowd backstabbing his brothers in arms and lying about atrocities he saw there. At the time it was Politically helpful to slam the Vietnam war and the men who were fighting it. In 2004 it was Politically expedient to do otherwise. Thats why Kerry was waving the flag and talking up his Vietnam service.
Even his award of the Bronze star and Silver Star was disputed by numerous witnesses who were there. He repeatedly lied about American actions and his own service during the Winter Soldier debacle in 1971.
So if you are going to compare anything to "swiftboating" at least have the decency to have a clue about what your talking about.
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Swift boating was a lot different. I was with the Swift Boat guys as was a lot of veterans.
THIS is the guys brother admitting what everybody already knows. That Obama was raised a Muslim. Americans are tolerant of religion. Unlike in Muslim countries this tolerance is even written into our constitution.
The Swift boat drama unfolded after Kerry lied about his service in Vietnam, and, lied about his actions afterwards. After 4 mos in country he flim-flammed his way into getting enough purple heart medals to get the hell out of there. Then he came home and joined the Jane Fonda crowd backstabbing his brothers in arms and lying about atrocities he saw there. At the time it was Politically helpful to slam the Vietnam war and the men who were fighting it. In 2004 it was Politically expedient to do otherwise. Thats why Kerry was waving the flag and talking up his Vietnam service.
Even his award of the Bronze star and Silver Star was disputed by numerous witnesses who were there. He repeatedly lied about American actions and his own service during the Winter Soldier debacle in 1971.
So if you are going to compare anything to "swiftboating" at least have the decency to have a clue about what your talking about.
Just out of curiousity, can you show me where what you've just claimed was proven to be true?
I remember McCain getting smeared pretty heavily too with the implication he was a traitor during his POW experience.
I don't recall either Kerry or McCain allegations having been proven to be accurate.
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The numerous allegations against Kerry as to his in-country activities were made by people who served with him, and he never got into any specifcs about them, just denied them out of hand, and labeled the 254 Swift-Boaters right-wing-pawns. (AS opposed to the 14 who supported Kerry)
(note: for future reference, the definition of "swiftboating" is: "producing irrefutable evidence that a Democrat is lying.") :D
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Kinda left out the fact that the 14 all served WITH Kerry.
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Swift boating was a lot different. I was with the Swift Boat guys as was a lot of veterans.
THIS is the guys brother admitting what everybody already knows. That Obama was raised a Muslim. Americans are tolerant of religion. Unlike in Muslim countries this tolerance is even written into our constitution.
The Swift boat drama unfolded after Kerry lied about his service in Vietnam, and, lied about his actions afterwards. After 4 mos in country he flim-flammed his way into getting enough purple heart medals to get the hell out of there. Then he came home and joined the Jane Fonda crowd backstabbing his brothers in arms and lying about atrocities he saw there. At the time it was Politically helpful to slam the Vietnam war and the men who were fighting it. In 2004 it was Politically expedient to do otherwise. Thats why Kerry was waving the flag and talking up his Vietnam service.
Even his award of the Bronze star and Silver Star was disputed by numerous witnesses who were there. He repeatedly lied about American actions and his own service during the Winter Soldier debacle in 1971.
So if you are going to compare anything to "swiftboating" at least have the decency to have a clue about what your talking about.
From Wiki:
Swift boat duty
On November 17, 1968, Kerry reported for duty at Coastal Squadron 1 in Cam Ranh Bay in South Vietnam. In his role as an officer in charge of Swift boats, Kerry led five-man crews on a number of patrols into enemy-controlled areas. His first command was Swift boat PCF-44, from December 6, 1968 to January 21, 1969, when the crew was disbanded. They were based at Coastal Division 13 at Cat Lo from December 13, 1968 to January 6, 1969. Otherwise, they were stationed at Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi. On January 30, 1969, Kerry took charge of PCF-94 and its crew, which he led until he departed An Thoi on March 26, 1969, and subsequently the crew was disbanded.[18]
On January 22, 1969, Kerry and several other officers had a meeting in Saigon with Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, the commander of U.S. Naval forces in Vietnam, and U.S. Army General Creighton Abrams, the overall commander of U.S. forces in Vietnam. Kerry and the other officers reported that the "free-fire zone" policy was alienating the Vietnamese and that the Swift boats' actions were not accomplishing their ostensible goal of interdicting Viet Cong supply lines. According to his biographer, Douglas Brinkley, Kerry and the other visiting officers felt their concerns were dismissed with what amounted to a pep talk (Tour of Duty, pp. 254–261).
Military honors
During the night of December 2, 1968 and early morning of December 3, 1968, Kerry was in charge of a small boat operating near a peninsula north of Cam Ranh Bay together with a Swift boat (PCF-60). According to Kerry and the two crewmen who accompanied him that night, Patrick Runyon and William Zaladonis, they surprised a group of men unloading sampans at a river crossing, who began running and failed to obey an order to stop. As the men fled, Kerry and his crew opened fire on the sampans and destroyed them, then rapidly left. During this encounter, Kerry received a minor wound in the left arm above the elbow. It was for this injury that Kerry received his first Purple Heart.[19]
Kerry received his second Purple Heart for a wound received in action on the Bo De River on February 20, 1969. The plan had been for the Swift boats to be accompanied by support helicopters. On the way up the Bo De, however, the helicopters were attacked. They returned to their base to refuel and were unable to return to the mission for several hours.
As the Swift boats reached the Cua Lon River, Kerry's boat was hit by a RPG round, and a piece of shrapnel hit Kerry's left leg, wounding him. Thereafter, they had no more trouble, and reached the Gulf of Thailand safely. Kerry still has shrapnel in his left thigh because the doctors tending to him decided to remove the damaged tissue and close the wound with sutures rather than make a wide opening to remove the shrapnel.[20] Kerry received his second Purple Heart for this injury, but like several others wounded earlier that day, he did not lose any time off from duty.[21][22]
Eight days later, on February 28, 1969, came the events for which Kerry was awarded his Silver Star. On this occasion, Kerry was in tactical command of his Swift boat and two others. Their mission included bringing a demolition team and dozens of South Vietnamese soldiers to destroy enemy sampans, structures and bunkers. Running into an ambush, Kerry "directed the boats to turn to the beach and charge the Viet Cong positions" and he "expertly directed" his boat's fire and coordinated the deployment of the South Vietnamese troops, according to the original medal citation (signed by Admiral Zumwalt). Going a short distance farther, Kerry's boat was the target of an RPG round; as the boat beached at the site, a VC with a rocket launcher jumped and ran from a spider hole. While the boat's gunner opened fire, wounding the VC on the leg, and while the other boats approached and offered cover fire, Kerry jumped from the boat and chased the VC and killed him, capturing a loaded rocket launcher.[23][24][24]
Kerry's commanding officer, Lieutenant Commander George Elliott, joked to Douglas Brinkley in 2003 that he didn't know whether to court-martial Kerry for beaching the boat without orders or give him a medal for saving the crew. Elliott recommended Kerry for the Silver Star, and Zumwalt flew into An Thoi to personally award medals to Kerry and the rest of the sailors involved in the mission. The Navy's account of Kerry's actions is presented in the original medal citation signed by Zumwalt. The engagement was documented in an after-action report, a press release written on March 1, 1969, and a historical summary dated March 17, 1969.[25]
On March 13, 1969, five Swift boats were returning to base together on the Bay Hap river from their missions that day, after a firefight earlier in the day (during which time Kerry received a slight shrapnel wound in the buttocks from blowing up a rice bunker), and debarking some but not all of the passengers at a small village. They approached a fishing weir (a series of poles across the river for hanging nets), so that one group of boats went around left, hugging the shore, and a group with Kerry's 94 boat went around right along the shoreline. A mine was detonated directly beneath the lead boat, PCF-3, as it crossed the weir to the left, lifting PCF-3 completely into the air.[26]
James Rassmann, a Green Beret advisor who was aboard PCF-94, was knocked overboard when, according to witnesses and the documentation of the event, a mine or rocket exploded close to the boat. According to the documentation for the event, Kerry's arm was injured when he was thrown against a bulkhead during the explosion. PCF 94 returned to the scene and Kerry rescued Rassmann from the water. Kerry received the Bronze Star for his actions during this incident; he also received his third Purple Heart.[27]
After the crew of PCF-3 had been rescued, and the most seriously wounded sailors evacuated by two of the PCFs, PCF 94 and another boat remained behind and helped salvage the stricken boat together with a damage-control party that had been immediately dispatched to the scene.
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As the presidential campaign of 2004 developed, approximately 200 Vietnam veterans formed the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT), subsequently renamed Swift Vets and POWs for Truth, which held press conferences, ran ads and endorsed a book questioning Kerry's service record and his military awards. Defenders of John Kerry's war record asserted that some organizers of SBVT had close ties to the Bush presidential campaign and that SBVT's accusations were politically motivated and false. One particular point of controversy was the fact that almost none of the swift boat veterans actually served with Kerry in Vietnam, or even met him.
Swiftboating, in a nutshell; Who's war record looks' better now? Kerry's, Or Bush's hiding from Vietnam in the TANG?
Here's the link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry#Controversy_over_military_service_and_awards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry#Controversy_over_military_service_and_awards)
If you dispute the Wikipedia entry, please, by all means, go edit it.
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Here is the original link
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12918.htm
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Swift boating was a lot different. I was with the Swift Boat guys as was a lot of veterans.
When and where?
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:rofl..
Oh yeah that's gonna really boost his presidential hopes. :)
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It would seem Barack Hussein Obama has as many half brothers as one Jonathan Quayle Higgins III.
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As the presidential campaign of 2004 developed, approximately 200 Vietnam veterans formed the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT), subsequently renamed Swift Vets and POWs for Truth, which held press conferences, ran ads and endorsed a book questioning Kerry's service record and his military awards. Defenders of John Kerry's war record asserted that some organizers of SBVT had close ties to the Bush presidential campaign and that SBVT's accusations were politically motivated and false. One particular point of controversy was the fact that almost none of the swift boat veterans actually served with Kerry in Vietnam, or even met him.
Swiftboating, in a nutshell; Who's war record looks' better now? Kerry's, Or Bush's hiding from Vietnam in the TANG?
Here's the link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry#Controversy_over_military_service_and_awards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry#Controversy_over_military_service_and_awards)
If you dispute the Wikipedia entry, please, by all means, go edit it.
I dont have time for it right now as I have to go to work. Course why would I even try and dispute a Wikipedia entry? :lol
http://www.swiftvets.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Purple1
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The action that led to John Kerry's first Purple Heart occurred on December 2, 1968, during the month that he was undergoing training with Coastal Division 14 at Cam Ranh Bay. While waiting to receive his own Swift boat command, Kerry volunteered for a nighttime patrol mission on a small, foam-filled "skimmer" craft under the command of Lt. William Schachte. The two officers were accompanied by an enlisted man who operated the outboard motor. The purpose of the patrol, which Kerry later described as "a half-assed action that hardly qualified as combat," was to find Vietcong guerillas moving contraband around a peninsula north of the bay on sampans.
At the target location Kerry saw a group of sampans unloading something on the shore, and lit a flare to illuminate the area. The men from the sampans ran, and Kerry and his crew opened fire. At that point, according to Kerry, "My M-16 jammed, and as I bent down in the boat to grab another gun, a stinging piece of heat socked into my arm and just seemed to burn like hell." (page 147, "Tour of Duty") Kerry and his men strafed the beach, shot up the sampans and returned to Cam Ranh Bay.
As an officer in command (OIC) in training, Kerry reported during this mission to William Schachte, who eventually retired as a Rear Admiral. Schachte flatly contradicts Kerry's claim to have been wounded by enemy fire, saying that after his M-16 jammed, Kerry picked up an M-79 grenade launcher and fired a grenade that exploded too close to the boat, causing a small piece of shrapnel to stick in the skin of his arm. Kerry himself did not report receiving hostile fire that night, which would have been required, and there is no record of hostile fire for the mission.
Kerry succeeded in keeping the small piece of shrapnel in his arm until the following day, when he was treated by Dr. Louis Letson, whose version of the event matches William Schachte's account rather than Kerry's:
I have a very clear memory of an incident which occurred while I was the Medical Officer at Naval Support Facility, Cam Ranh Bay. John Kerry was a (jg), the OinC or skipper of a Swift boat, newly arrived in Vietnam. On the night of December 2, he was on patrol north of Cam Ranh, up near Nha Trang area. The next day he came to sick bay, the medical facility, for treatment of a wound that had occurred that night.
The story he told was different from what his crewmen had to say about that night. According to Kerry, they had been engaged in a fire fight, receiving small arms fire from on shore. He said that his injury resulted from this enemy action.
Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks.
That seemed to fit the injury which I treated.
What I saw was a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm. The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter. It certainly did not look like a round from a rifle.
I simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps. I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound.
The wound was covered with a bandaid.
Not [sic] other injuries were reported and I do not recall that there was any reported damage to the boat.
The following morning, John Kerry arrived at the office of Coastal Division 14 Commander Grant Hibbard to apply for a Purple Heart. Having already been informed by Schachte that Kerry's injury was self-inflicted rather than the result of hostile fire, Commander Hibbard told him to "forget it." Hibbard recently said of Kerry's minor scratch, "I’ve seen worse injuries from a rose thorn."
Nevertheless, John Kerry managed to obtain his coveted Purple Heart for this incident nearly three months later after being transferred to Coastal Division 11. The circumstances remain obscure, as there are no written records of this award on file at the Naval Historical Center. Various other documents that might shed light on this award remain unavailable due to Senator Kerry's refusal to release his complete military records.
Military regulations state that to qualify for a Purple Heart, an injury must come "from an outside force or agent," and treatment for the wound must "have been made a matter of official record." While John Kerry managed to satisfy the second criterion by insisting that an amused Dr. Letson provide an official Band-Aid, nicking himself with a fragment from his own poorly-aimed grenade fails to meet the first qualification.
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Wiki can be amended if it's found wrong, Rich. But nobody's gone to the trouble to ammend the fact that of the SBVT, only the guys' on other boats (that weren't with Kerry) would try to denounce him. All of Kerry's crews' stood by him. As did CO's he served under. SBVT was, and IMHO, still is, one of the most shameful political propaganda tools' yet devised. It was able to take the kind of people who would put the yellow ribbon magnet stickers' on their bumpers to show support for the troops, and actually turn them against a Vet.
It's sad when service to one's country ranks second to political affiliation.
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Kerry opened himself to reprisal when he sat before congress and knowingly lied defaming the servicemen who served, many of whom gave their lives, in Vietnam.
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Swift boating was a lot different. I was with the Swift Boat guys as was a lot of veterans.
Rich!! You ignored my question! When were you stationed on swift boats? And where? As a former Brown Water Navy sailor and Viet Nam veteran I'd love to hear about your swift boat experiences.
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Kerry opened himself to reprisal when he sat before congress and knowingly lied defaming the servicemen who served, many of whom gave their lives, in Vietnam.
Yup, the SBVT ..... payback. Kerry didn't like it much when he was the target of slander(if indeed it was). Tough.
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It is not clear whether Barack Obama will now disown his half-brother Malik, or throw him under the campaign bus, for acknowledging that shared family background.
Yathink? :D
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Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
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Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
the o'club in a nutshell.
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Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
You forgot to credit Jeremiah Wright.
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Obama + ice cube in hell = aint gonna happen.
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FWIW, here is the snopes page that popped up when I put in "Obama" in the search window. There may be more stuff but I am not particularly motivated to do more searching until I see something specific to look for.
http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=Obama&getit=Go&sp-a=00062d45-sp00000000&sp-advanced=1&sp-p=all&sp-w-control=1&sp-w=alike&sp-date-range=-1&sp-x=any&sp-c=100&sp-m=1&sp-s=0
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Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
You calling Malik Obama a liar?
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Rich!! You ignored my question! When were you stationed on swift boats? And where? As a former Brown Water Navy sailor and Viet Nam veteran I'd love to hear about your swift boat experiences.
Have you been drinking? I never said I was a swift boater or even in the navy. I said the Swift boat controversy was a far different one then whatever this "Obamas brother said he was a Muslim" controversy is. I was with the Swift Boat guys in the form of financial and moral backing during the controversy. Indeed I'd like to think I helped change a lot of veterans minds about that Phony John Kerry.
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You calling Malik Obama a liar?
I think the real tragedy is the lack of real comprehension skills of some people. If you read the article, Malik NEVER says that his brother is a muslim. Here is the only "quote" from the article:
As the Jerusalem Post reports, "Barack Obama's half brother Malik said Thursday that if elected his brother will be a good president for the Jewish people, despite his Muslim background. In an interview with Army Radio he expressed a special salutation from the Obamas of Kenya."
A third party rendering at best and it may even be refering to Malik's "Muslim background" not Obama's.
But if you actually click the link to the Jerusalem Post article it goes nowhere.
Later on in the article is another link to a story about Malik visiting Obama in 2004. This is an MSNBC story that includes the following:
Their paternal grandfather, Onyango Hussein Obama, was one of the first Muslim converts in Nyangoma-Kogelo, Malik said. However, not all of his descendants are Muslim, Malik added. Barack is Christian.
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yeah.. I heard the leader of Iraq yesterday on NPR saying that he trusted McCain but that he had a good talk with osamabama and that osamabama assured him that we would not abandon Iraq.. that we would stay as long as needed.
What a panderer... I don't think Israel shares osamabamas brothers light and airy "he will be good for Israel" Those jews are not that easy to fool.
lazs