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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: SmokinLoon on June 15, 2008, 11:19:20 PM

Title: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 15, 2008, 11:19:20 PM
Some planes to me that are perked (I said planes, not jets  ;) ) are tough to fly.  Namely the Tempest and Spit14.  There are a few planes that are not perked that are as easy as apple pie to fly and are highly popular for exactly that reason.  The Spit16 and La7 are the two most obvious.  The Nik2 isnt too far behind, and while the P51D is extremely popular it doesnt seem to be a plane just anyone can hop into and fly into battle due to some little querks here n there.

So... has HTC thought about rotating some of the current perked aircraft OUT into the "free world" and in turn place some of the uber easy as can be aircraft into the world of being perked?  I'd vote to unperk the Spit14 and Tempest, and perk the Spit16, La7, and maybe the Nik2.  Try it and see how it works?  If the game changes drastically, then swap it back to the way it was.

I know some of the die hard Spit16, La7, and Nik2 fans will voice their displeasure... but ya know....  there is an old saying "Free your mind and your arse will follow" (from what movie??? 5 perks to the one who gets it right  ;) ), try it sometime.  :aok
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: AAolds on June 16, 2008, 01:10:45 AM
SpitXIV is in my view the easiet and most deadly of the spitfires to fly.   As for rotating what planes are perked......Id be game for giving it a try.
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: Furball on June 16, 2008, 03:00:46 AM
I find it is not so much flying the 14 that is the problem, more aiming in it - torque really effects rudder input and it is hard to aim in.
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: SD67 on June 16, 2008, 05:41:46 AM
That sounds suspiciously like an RPS.
You don't wanna know what happens to HT in an RPS.
:noid
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: Ghosth on June 16, 2008, 07:07:15 AM
And what is it exactly that you expect the new guys to fly when they can't fly spit16, nik and la7?

Each and every one of those planes can be beaten if you learn how.
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: angelsandair on June 16, 2008, 07:46:05 AM
N1k is easy to turn with in most planes. It has horrible climb IMO and I usually go vert after a pass and go on top with an immelan.  :aok
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 16, 2008, 09:08:14 AM
And what is it exactly that you expect the new guys to fly when they can't fly spit16, nik and la7?

Each and every one of those planes can be beaten if you learn how.

My suggestion has nothing to do with my ability to shoot down the above mentioned planes... I made an observation of the ease of use for both the new guy and vet.  Those three planes are easy to fly.  Period.  The new guys can hop into many other planes and learn the game.  I suggest the Zeke for most new guys because it seems to be the best for learning angles, etc (nimble and easiest to correct in flight mistakes).     

OR....

What about reducing the perk costs of the Tempest and Spit14, and adding a small perk cost to the three mentioned above?  Say maybe 5-8 points (normalized) for the Spit16, 4-6 for the La7, and 4-6 for the Nik?  Reduce the Tempest down to 15-20, and the Spit14 down to 5-8.

How many have actually taken the Spit14 into the mix?  Very few do becuase the Spit16 does it all better ('cept for climb and high alt speed).  How many actually know how difficult the Tempest is to fly? 

OR....

Include the above scenario AND/OR have a more fluid ENY score throughout the game.  I'm not exactly %100 sure how the ENY is calculated, but Im guessing it has to do with the success of lack of success a country is experiencing at any point in time.  Perhaps reduce the steps it takes to affect the ENY?  If people had to take something other than a 5-10 ENY plane on a reoccuring basis,... imagine the horror if a Spit16 fanboi (fanboi = whiny vet who cant fly anything else) had to up in a Spit Mk? about every 3rd time he tried to up because the ENY had shifted?   :)
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: Lusche on June 16, 2008, 02:07:26 PM
  How many actually know how difficult the Tempest is to fly? 

The Tempest is not that difficult to fly. Keep it fast and you are close to being untouchable

It's neither as bad turning nor rolling as the Typhoon. It's heavy, but extremely powerful and without any doubt the most dangerous plane in MA gameplay. Can catch anything, can run away from everything but a 262 and has 4 Hispanos with plenty ammo.
There's a good reason the Tempest has often even surpassed the Me 262 in K/D, and always being lightyears ahead of the competition.

No way that plane getting unperked or even having it's perk price reduced while the Spit XVi getting perked.

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/395/kdyo1.jpg)
(from: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,223633.0.html)

Compare Tempest to Spit 16 or La 7...  ;)
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: MachFly on June 16, 2008, 02:17:42 PM
I would say unperking spit 14 is a good idea.  :aok
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 16, 2008, 05:44:45 PM
Each and every one of those planes can be beaten if you learn how.

[sarcasm]But why take the time to improve yourself when you can just demand these planes be perked instead?  The path of least resistance is the easiest to follow for a reason you know.[/sarcasm]


ack-ack
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 16, 2008, 11:31:02 PM
[sarcasm]But why take the time to improve yourself when you can just demand these planes be perked instead?  The path of least resistance is the easiest to follow for a reason you know.[/sarcasm]
ack-ack

Again... it has nothing to do with my skilz (or lack of), but rather... ah never mind.  Some knee jerk reactions are inevitable.
Title: Warning statement below indicates major brain problems.
Post by: Rambo Fan on June 18, 2008, 01:35:17 PM
Let me put this in a summary...

You can't fly the perk planes? Your not good enough.
You can't kill a darn thing in a spit, a la7 or a N1K so you want to unperk the good planes? Your obviously whining?  :huh

Point is you suck, you want the good planes because you think that will improve you?
_____________________________ _____________________________ _____________________________ ____________________People use the La7, and other planes, cause there for beginners? But you want to take away the planes people use to get better, by perking them. One way or another i think it be better tyo leave the game as it is.
Im 50% in, 50% out, thats a maybe.
Title: Re: Warning statement below indicates major brain problems.
Post by: trotter on June 18, 2008, 01:47:43 PM
Let me put this in a summary...

You can't fly the perk planes? Your not good enough.
You can't kill a darn thing in a spit, a la7 or a N1K so you want to unperk the good planes? Your obviously whining?  :huh

Point is you suck, you want the good planes because you think that will improve you?
_____________________________ _____________________________ _____________________________ ____________________People use the La7, and other planes, cause there for beginners? But you want to take away the planes people use to get better, by perking them. One way or another i think it be better tyo leave the game as it is.
Im 50% in, 50% out, thats a maybe.


Excuse me, who are you? This is a piss poor reply, and coming from someone as new to the game as you, probably warrants a forum ban. Completely out of line.
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: Becinhu on June 18, 2008, 06:50:59 PM
People don't fly the 5 eny planes just because they suck. Some people actually like them. Personally I only use the La-7 for base defense because it's attributes (fast acceleration and climb) fit base defense perfectly, especially NOE raids. The Niki is a close second for base defense because when it's 20 to 1, 900 cannon rounds go a long way. The spit 16 on the other hand is a dog and I would rather up a spit 8 anyday.  Just because the plane is ENY 5 doesn't mean the person hits autopilot to land 10 kills every sortie...they still have to aim and shoot. The only truly lame part about the 5 eny planes is the high probability that every time you face on the moron on the other end will try his very best to Ho you every pass even if his plane can outperform your plane for a rear quarter shot if he actually gave it half an effort (ie him=spit 16, you=190 f-8 low and slow on the deck).
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: VansCrew1 on June 18, 2008, 07:18:59 PM
The Tempest is not that difficult to fly. Keep it fast and you are close to being untouchable

It's neither as bad turning nor rolling as the Typhoon. It's heavy, but extremely powerful and without any doubt the most dangerous plane in MA gameplay. Can catch anything, can run away from everything but a 262 and has 4 Hispanos with plenty ammo.
There's a good reason the Tempest has often even surpassed the Me 262 in K/D, and always being lightyears ahead of the competition.

No way that plane getting unperked or even having it's perk price reduced while the Spit XVi getting perked.

(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/395/kdyo1.jpg)
(from: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,223633.0.html)

Compare Tempest to Spit 16 or La 7...  ;)

Tempest, 262 and 163 have the best K/D's because people that fly them are more timid when there in them. They don't go around hoing and vulching with them. Spit16 and LA on the other hand people will HO just for the sake of HOing.
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: Karnak on June 18, 2008, 08:03:18 PM
Tempest, 262 and 163 have the best K/D's because people that fly them are more timid when there in them. They don't go around hoing and vulching with them. Spit16 and LA on the other hand people will HO just for the sake of HOing.
And why are the perked F4U-4 and Spitfire Mk XIV so far down in the K/D ratio despite being perked aircraft that get flown timidly?
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: Lusche on June 18, 2008, 08:48:22 PM
Tempest, 262 and 163 have the best K/D's because people that fly them are more timid when there in them. They don't go around hoing and vulching with them. Spit16 and LA on the other hand people will HO just for the sake of HOing.

Of course the perk status often leads to more careful flying, but that's not the reason for their high k/d's alone. It discounts the huge performance gap between those planes and the rest of the planes. It's not even the biggest factor by far. If it were true that the perk status itself would lead to a high k/d, perking would not be necessary or even reasonable at all.
And the best proof against this theory is the unperking of the Ta 152. That didn't change it's k/d much.
Title: Re: Warning statement below indicates major brain problems.
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 24, 2008, 09:09:30 AM
Let me put this in a summary...

You can't fly the perk planes? Your not good enough.
You can't kill a darn thing in a spit, a la7 or a N1K so you want to unperk the good planes? Your obviously whining?  :huh

Point is you suck, you want the good planes because you think that will improve you?
_____________________________ _____________________________ _____________________________ ____________________People use the La7, and other planes, cause there for beginners? But you want to take away the planes people use to get better, by perking them. One way or another i think it be better tyo leave the game as it is.
Im 50% in, 50% out, thats a maybe.

I just happen to re-read this thread and this response deserves a rebuttal:

If you would have read what I posted, you would have learned that what I proposed has nothing to do with me wanting to fly the perked planes.  I have plenty of perk points to be able to fly anything at any time (I fly the Spit14 and Me262 from time to time).  Before you launch claims of "you suck" and "you're whining", be sure and read and understand what is being proposed.  I hardly "suck" and I surely do not "whine", and the only thing that ever needs to be left alone from it original intent is the USCON.   ;)  If all games and especially sims were left alone without any balancing and adjusting from the start... stop and think how many positive (or not so positive) changes would not have been made.  Having a more dynamic ENY scale and a deeper perk list (more perked planes) is generaly the idea that I proposed. 

be sure you hit "O" after you jump, young padawan.  You have much to learn.   :)
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: Ghastly on June 24, 2008, 09:40:52 AM
Quote
and a deeper perk list (more perked planes) is generaly the idea that I proposed

I disagree that we need a deeper perk list.  The reason that I do so is that as it is now, you can fly the game a very long time and not be hampered in any way by the inability to fly a perk plane.  Meanwhile, the few planes that are perked give a new player some incentive to earn perks, which encourages some wanted behaviors.

But as you perk more of the more capable aircraft, you eventually reach a point where newer players - in addition to having to compete with veteran players some of whom have not just years but decades of experience - have to do so in "second rate" aircraft.  Meanwhile, a vet with a few thousand perkies is in no way impacted.   And what this sim most definately does NOT need is an artificially induced hindrance to newer players, which is what this would amount to.

As such, I think that the current perk system, plane choices, and settings is just about optimal - it's a carrot, without much stick. 

<S>
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 24, 2008, 03:57:29 PM
I disagree that we need a deeper perk list.  The reason that I do so is that as it is now, you can fly the game a very long time and not be hampered in any way by the inability to fly a perk plane.  Meanwhile, the few planes that are perked give a new player some incentive to earn perks, which encourages some wanted behaviors.

But as you perk more of the more capable aircraft, you eventually reach a point where newer players - in addition to having to compete with veteran players some of whom have not just years but decades of experience - have to do so in "second rate" aircraft.  Meanwhile, a vet with a few thousand perkies is in no way impacted.   And what this sim most definately does NOT need is an artificially induced hindrance to newer players, which is what this would amount to.

As such, I think that the current perk system, plane choices, and settings is just about optimal - it's a carrot, without much stick. 

<S>

A very valid concern, I agree.  However, I suggested in an earlier post that perked planes should cost 3 to 15 or maybe 20 max, with the Me262 and Me163 keeping roughly the same value.  So (roughly) the Spit16 would be 4, the La7 would be 3, P51D maybe 4, Nik2 maybe 4, Spit14 possibly 5-6, Tempest 12-18, F4U-x maybe 12-15, etc.  For bombers: Ar234 = 50-ish, Lancs = 8-12 (yes, perk the Lancs).

Also, allow the new guy some perk points, say just enough (30?) to take any plane they want the first time out in the E/M/O/B areas.  Notice I said "planes".         
Title: Re: Rotating the Perked Aircraft?
Post by: NoBaddy on June 24, 2008, 04:57:05 PM
Tempest, 262 and 163 have the best K/D's because people that fly them are more timid when there in them. They don't go around hoing and vulching with them. Spit16 and LA on the other hand people will HO just for the sake of HOing.

On the other side of the coin is the fact that when seen, these planes are usually hunted to the exclusion of easier targets. Hmm, I use them to hunt bombers. Anyone wanna whine about "lazer buff guns" and then tell me I am timid?? :D