Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hristo on December 11, 1999, 03:11:00 AM
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Yes, we can live thru collisions etc, but...
Does anyone have a feeling that we collide a bit to often, maybe ?
As if the collisions detection is based upon a larger airframe than the one we fly ?
Any feedback ?
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I don't get that impression, hristo. Most of the times I've collided I was expecting it. Another interesting point: of all the collisions I've had there was only one that was immediately fatal. After playing brand W for so many years, this collision code rocks.
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129 IAP VVS RKKA
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I agree that it is better than WB one.
Still, on few occasions it seemed a bit funny. I know about inertia though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I remember when I wen't on same flight through spitfire and C-47 (he he), right through, even could see the cockpit of C-47 (out of ammo, heroic ramming attempt).
Then I have collided right through but lost elevator (looks like my wing hit only nikis paper tail and it engine must've hit my elevator...)
Then I've experienced collisions where other guy has flown very close by me, but still not enough to collide, but it's been counted as collision (planes drags collision area after them?)
Then I've seen planes below me nicely 30 yards and boom, collision..
My collision experiements, partially deserved, partially been unbelievable..
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For me, the # 1 pain in the prettythang in WB was the collisions. Here they are perfect. Please leave them alone.
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Yes, The Collisions are perfect and need no adjusting at this time. Much improved over
Warbirds!!!!!!!!
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Please, nobody is saying that collisions should be as in WB !! This collision code is way ahead of WB collision code.
We all know how frustrating it felt there.
What I want to say that these still need some tweaking IMHO.
Why ? Well, I had a fight with La-5FN at 25 k (?!). My 109 could clearly outperform it at that alt, and I got on his 6, while he squeezed everything out of his zoom and went for Split S. He ended above me, flying almost vertically down. Next second I saw him whizz above me canopy, still pointing down. OK, close encounter, but not a collision. But, with similar AH collision experiences, I just knew my FE would report collision. And it did. Instant death.
I filmed the fight and watched it in slow motion many times. It was a collision course, but La passed above my plane, with 1-2 meters being the closest range.
Yes, I admit it vas VERY close to collision, but we should not collide there. Not to mention instant death (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I agree, colision code is good, with one exception. After dropping troops on a field, and turning around to land, an n1k appeared on the runway. Desperately trying to stop it, I touched down and headed right for it. I went right through it, I could see the n1ks cockpit and all. (I think the n1k pilot was just as surprised as I was. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ) Fortunately for me, I scared the n1k so bad, he couldn't shoot straight and I captured the base anyway. Can we please add unfriendly ground colisions? Other than that, I like the colision model the way it is.
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Now do you think is this a collision ?
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/1.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/2.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/3.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/4.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/5.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/6.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/7.jpg)
Sorry for 7 pics, but this is only for you to see what I am trying to say. Planes, at least 109, have some 'collision bubble' above them.
This was very close, but not a collision. I lost both wings, half elevator, engine and who knows what else there !
Interestingly enough, the tail (which was closes to the Niki) was undamaged.
From now on it is 30mm for me, so I shoot my way through (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 12-31-1999).]
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Hristo your FE showed a miss by 18 yards, but I wonder what the other guys' FE showed (yep a collision).
When his showed the collision it told your FE "we hit and here is how your damaged" even though yours thought you missed.
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Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires ;) "
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Very valid point, verm. Especially in online games, there are always two sides to the story. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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leonid, aka grisha
129 IAP VVS RKKA
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But, but, hey...!!
I thought this issue was solved before, in WB. You collide only if you collide on your FE. Only fair with netlag. Though it took time for me to get damaged, just as long as it usually takes for hits to get reported (about 1 second).
You are not saying that AH has different approach, are you ? That both get damaged if one collided on his FE only. Hmmm.....
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Just to be sure, I went to arena and tried to ram someone. Not an easy task, I might say, they kind of evade when I am d1 behind (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Rammed a Spit in P 51, got hurt badly and crashed. Now, is this a collision ?!
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/a.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/b.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/c.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/d.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/e.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/f.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/images/g.jpg)
Again, my appologies for too many pics.
Spit was not damaged. I watched him climb for a minute or two and leaving for the nearest furball (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Who can explain the time between the moment that Niki and I passed each other and when my plane started falling apart ? Same happened with Spit.
Getting close is essential to 109 flying. With this collision code it just isn't fair, sorry, had to say it.
[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 12-31-1999).]
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Yes! it's unfair that in a collision only 1 person gets damage! I had an accidental collision with a spit and to my disbelief the guy had no damage at all while I was headed down in flames! If there is a collision let both get damage.
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
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Sorrow, I disagree.
This is an old issue that was solved in WB long ago.
Let's say you want to ram someone. He realizes it and tries to evade. However, he can evade the collision only on his FE. He can't evade the collision on your FE too(different position of planes due to netlag), he doesn't see the situation on your FE. So, you ram him on your FE, even if he managed to avoid the collision on his FE.
So, you get damaged because you collided, but he should not because he avoided the colision. As simple as that.
How would you feel to get damaged in a collision with a guy that was 100-200 yards behind and 50 yards above in your FE, but who rammed you in his FE ?
I think it works here. You collide only if you collided on your FE (notice that in my Spit ramming he wasn't damaged, even though I lost both wings - quite a collision).
The reason I posted these pics is for everyone to see that collision code is NOT good. Far from perfect. I expected a lot more replies, because it is obvious that I passed that Spit in P 51. And lost both wings ? Like my plane is a size of a B 17 or something.
And this 'random' collision code hurts 109 the most. These is no 500 yards killing Hispanos or .50 cals. You have to get close to kill. Plus the plane compresses at high speeds. Now ad this unfair collision modeling and thing are just not fair.
In WB the designers hesitated to admit there was a collision bubble. In different versions its size was changed etc, but it always was - the bubble. Plus you always got killed when you collided.
In AH you don't get killed but lose parts. Very good approach. I can't say if there is a bubble, but I sure had some close passes that were interpreted as collisions.
Also, I lived through what should be fatal collisions. On one situation I passed through a plane in HO. It was at moderate speed, I could just see inside the plane for a split second. It should have been instant death. What damage did I get ? An oil leak !!
[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 01-01-2000).]
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Hristo
I was making what is commonly called a SWAG (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Or Scientific Wild bellybutton Guess (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Only Pyro or HT could tell you exactly what is going on.
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Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires ;) "
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In ver. .43 I have noticed a large increase in being rammed and attemped rams. This is especilly true, if you are in a 109. Dweebs in spits and other more agele planes know that they can pull out and you cant.
IMHO if the last man standing rule was dropped. It would dicourge this.
[This message has been edited by TT (edited 01-01-2000).]
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I am sorry hristo but _I_ have to disagree with you.
Whether it's on your FE or mine does not matter, if there is a collision than both sides should be damaged. If there is a touch then both planes need to reflect that or collisions are just unfair. To this point I have NOT seen a collision I have had inflict damage on the other plane. When I accidently collide with a plane then dammit I want him to be having some issues too while I am wingless and in a spin.
In all my touches I am pretty sure that the hit was on his FE or just because of the "bubble" effect you described. Therefore netlag is besides the point. If there is a collision then bygod let both planes see damage.
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
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Agree 100% Sorrow.
Both should get damaged if just one of them observes a collision.
The argument about not feeling the collision if you don't see it from your point of view and being unable to avoid the collision don't hold. Should bullet hits also be neglected just because they don't seem to hit and you didn't have a chance to avoid them either?
Having said this I agree that this discussion wouldn't occur if lag the size it is in AH. I often notice how long it takes from the collision or the massive amount of hits taken, before the effect is seen.
Often it feels like there is about a ½ to 1 sec delay. Just tonight I ran straight through a F4 in my 109. Clearly a collision, but it took about one second before parts started falling off me one by one in fast order.
A little tip I have learned is that the danger zone for the "invicible" collisions is right in front of the enemy's flight path. As he sees your plane "delayed" it can come to a collision in his view.
In short, let the collision model stay, and concentrate on the lag-issue.
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LLv34 Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
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Hristo;
Thanks for the pictures, you illustrate your arguements very well. <S>
HTC;
Check out the last picture that Hristo posted. The picture with the P-51 that has its wings missing.
Now..... Put the wings back on. Change the color of the flames slightly, more whitish. Reduce the flame size by 50%. Add a little more transperent smoke trailing behind the flames. Move the flames forward on the A/C so that it centers over the engine exhaust stacks. Make 6 little defined puffs on each side of the fuseluge. Transpose this modified picture and place it in the air over an air base. Then send the completed picture to me, as a desktop wallpaper. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Thanks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) in (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) advance (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mino
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 01-02-2000).]
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Minotaur and Snefens,
You did not convince me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Yes, I see your point and it would be valid indeed if we would not have netlag.
However, sometimes netlag causes great differences what players see. The greatest difference I saw is Spit hitting me at d12 on my FE. I asked him how far away he was on open channel, he said it was d8. That covers difference of 301-499 yards.
Now, what if we scissored ? If I saw him 400 yards away ? Collision wouldbe the last thing I would think of. Would it be fair for me to get damaged then, if he, due to his netlag and different situation on his FE, collides with me ?
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that collision detection code needs reexamination. As for collision politics (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif), I think it is fair.
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Bull. Collisions as fine just as they are. I do not want to get penalized because someone can't fly thier aircraft hits me or is out of ammo but 'just has to' get that kill no matter what so they purposely collide.
You collide? YOU go down. Not me.
-Westy
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I have yet to colide when I didn't expect it. I have missed a few colisions that I thought were too close to call. This collision code rules!
eskimo
[This message has been edited by eskimo (edited 01-07-2000).]
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In latest versions (0.44) I have goen through similar situations, very close, did not collide. Seems the collision detection has been imrproved, but I need time to make sure (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)